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Sonic the Hedgehog (SataM) Upgrade

Idazmi

Idazmi

384
119
I took a look at SatAM Sonic's profile...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Sonic the Hedgehog (SatAM)

Sonic the Hedgehog is the protagonist of the Saturday morning cartoons of the same name. He's an anthropomorphic hedgehog within the 33rd century on the planet Mobius, using his speed to battle the tyranny of Doctor Robotnik alongside his fellow Freedom Fighters. While oftentimes impatient and...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

...and I've got to say, it's severely undercooked. There are only two keys: Base and With the Power Stones - even though Sonic is shown to have three tiers of power in the series: his base abilities, his power enhanced the Power Rings, and farther enhanced by the Deep Power Stones.

The current AP states:

Small Building level (Can pry open sealed metal doors with his Spin Dash. Can pull back a moving plane using his speed. Can barrel through Swatbots. Comparable, albeit weaker than, Bunnie, who can pry open the mouth of the Dinobot, which Uncle Chuck called the most powerful robot there was. Can harm those who can harm him), Higher with Power Rings (Capable of thrashing a robot herd and blasting right through a robot lizard) | At least Small Building level (Far stronger than before. Easily tore apart Robotnik's entire facility within moments)

Lets ignore for the moment that we don't even have profiles or calcs for SatAM Bunnie or the Dinobot (as far as I can tell). Instead, I want to call attention to some feats:



^ Between 15:46 and 17:10 in this video, Sonic uses his immense speed to generate enough torque to tunnel quite a ways deep into the Earth through rocky soil, where he finds the gear shaft of a long abandoned oil derrick. He proceeds to run on said gear shaft, using it to send a pressurized stream of oil over a hundred feet into the air with enough force to severely damage Robotnik's Cloud Burster airship. This has the delayed effect of generating a powerful enough earthquake that the entire island he's on collapses into the sea and explodes (seen from 19:05 to 21:24). It's worth noting that this was all done at his base power, without using a Power Ring, and Sonic is audibly fatigued after pulling it off - you can hear him panting afterwards.

In any case, I'd tend to think that every single part of that feat qualifies well above 9-A. It also illustrates a significant disparity between his Attack Potency and his actual total Destructive Capacity: the end result of the feat is Island Level, but none of the attacks leading up to that are Island Level on their own.



^ At 12:26 in this video, Sonic deliberately deflects a laser with a hand mirror, returning it to the SWAT-bot that fired it.



^ At 2:56 in this video, Sonic dodges a laser from a cannon that he's plainly looking at, after it has been fired.



^ At 10:27 in this video, Sonic dodges an intense, close range barrage of laser fire while also dodging flame jets, sawblades, and crushing mechanical limbs before casually tunneling through a rock wall to escape.

I think that qualifies for at least Sub-Relativistic combat speed.

The abilities in the base key are generally full of misinterpretations:

The page mentions Sonic having "air propellers" on his shoes even though they're explicitly referred to as anti-gravity.
Toon Force - this is highly questionable: SatAM Sonic never showed any Toon Force outside of grabbing the iris-out in exactly one episode (an event that, given the general tone of the series, was pretty jarring).
Surface Scaling - The page mentions that Sonic scales walls with his speed, even though an episode explicitly shows him activating the antigravity shoes to do this.
Power Nullification - This is simply invalid: the Power Rings are shown to overload electronics and forcefields, they don't just nullify them. They also cause metal to melt into slag when they are jammed inside a gearbox.
Explosion Manipulation - This is (correctly) listed as one of Sonic's abilities even though the site neglects to mention bombs as part of his standard equipment.
Resistance to Electricity Manipulation - The page boasts that Sonic feels fine despite making contact with massive energy fields. This could easily be raw durability, given that he's been calced to tank multiple Small Building level explosions one right after another with no ill effects.
Willpower Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, and Memory Manipulation - Not in base form. Sonic only ever resisted Roboticization and Mind Manipulation through the Power Rings.

The Power Stone key is also off. I have no idea why he's listed as Small Building level in this key, considering that his sole feat in that form was completely destroying a city-sized facility in only moments without the slightest shred of fatigue. The key also neglected Power Bestowal, as Sonic temporarily gifted Sally identical speed and powers during that entire feat:



^ From 18:23 in this video. Sonic is clearly sharing the power with Sally, who remarks that she is amazed at what the Power Rings feel like (The Power Stones and Power Rings use the same kind of energy).
 
Yes, like Bobsican said, CRTs are still under lockdown for the time being; this case would continue until more phases of the forum move are completed.
 
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Following, but I already agree with most of it from what I am seeing. Lack of knowledge for SATAM is what’s preventing me from being more helpful.
 
ElixirBlue said:
Following, but I already agree with most of it from what I am seeing. Lack of knowledge for SATAM is what’s preventing me from being more helpful.
Click to expand...

If you want an easy reference, there's an official playlist of the entire series on WildBrain's Youtube channel.

Moving on, there's a few notable feats for the Power Rings and Scorch Plants:



This scene takes place in Robotropolis' backup power generator. Starting at 20:49 and ending at 21:05, Sonic jams a pulley belt's gearbox with a Power Ring to save Antoine from being crushed... he then tells the team that they better leave because "this whole joint is gonna melt." As he is saying this, the whole gearbox liquifies down to a runny fluid in mere seconds. Moments later, at 21:29, Robotopolis experiences a total blackout.



At 19:28, Sonic tells Sally to press a Power Ring against a forcefield cage to "drain the juice". Despite the terminology he uses, this isn't an absorption feat: the Power Ring is clearly emitting energy outwards, and is nearly blasted away from the forcefields until Bunnie (who is a super-strong cyborg) and Antoine work with Sally to hold it there. She actually presses the ring against the bars at 20:05, and the bars are completely drained of energy at 20:28.



At 17:10, Robotnik claims that there's no way for the Freedom Fighters to escape a large forcefield. At 17:51, Sonic uses the Power Ring - combined with his Super Sonic Spin - to temporarily breach it, allowing them to escape before the hole in the field closes.

The same episode also demonstrates the destructive abilities of Scorch Plants. At 10:23, a Terapod saves Tails from touching a Scorch Plant, before demonstrating how dangerous it is by shoving a rock into it - the rock instantly disintegrates. At 19:05, Sonic lures Robotnik's Stealth-bomber wing into a massive field of the plants, destroying them. At 20:09, It's revealed that Sally has collected the seeds of the scorch plants (the seeds are harmless) in order to cultivate them as weapons. The results of this are seen in the final episode of the series:



At 2:07, Rotor finishes the weapons, which take the form of hand thrown balloons full of green liquid. Sonic throws one at a pile of scrap metal, instantly vaporizing it. At 4:28, they are shown to be effective against the otherwise near-invincible Doomsday Pods, destroying them in one hit. For reference, this is the Doomsday Pod prototype:



At 14:42, preparing to ambush the pod Sonic plants some sticky mines in a ravine. At 14:55 the Freedom Fighters ambush the Doomsday Pod, shooting it repeatedly with a laser cannon before Sonic detonates the mines, burying it under tons of rock. The Pod simply gets back up at 15:26, totally undamaged. At 16:05, Sonic uses a Power Ring to attack the pod from underground, using a tornado to fling it into a squadron of hovercraft and smash it into the side of the ravine, at which point it gets back up again, fighting at full strength despite obvious superstructure damage. Since the Scorch Plant balloons can immediately destroy these things, I'd personally put them under Durability Negation.

From what I'm aware of, Sonic's updated profile should look more like this:

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Acausality (Type 1, His memories remained intact despite the changes to the timeline), Durability Negation with Scorch Plant balloons (able to instantly destroy a Doomsday Pod), Psuedo-Flight (Sonic can fly into the air and even briefly hover with his raw speed, and can control his descent either naturally or with the the anti-gravs on his shoes), Enhanced Senses (Hearing and Smell), Acrobatics (Often showcases great agility on multiple occasions, along with sure footing), Stealth Mastery (Can infiltrate Robotnik's facilities, which are heavily guarded, without being detected or setting off surveillance), Surface Scaling (He can run up or along walls with sheer speed, or the use anti-gravs on his shoes to stick to any surface), Natural Weaponry (By sharpening his spines into a "mohawk" shape he can use them like a blade), Gravity Manipulation (With the Anti-Gravity Shoes), Air Manipulation (He can produce sonic booms, strong currents of wind, and tornadoes with his speed, which can be boosted by Power Rings), Smoke Manipulation, Fire Manipulation (Has repeatedly shown to produce fire by running fast enough), Explosion Manipulation (Through explosive bombs that Sonic can carry on him), Statistics Amplification (Power Rings are shown to greatly enhance his strength and speed) | Mind Manipulation and Memory Manipulation with Power Rings (Can use them fight off the mind-control effects of Roboticization, such as restoring Uncle Chuck's mind to its original state. Also restored Sonic's memories after he was hit with an amnesia-inducing laser) Heat Manipulation (One Power Ring generated enough heat to cause one of Robotnik's massive power plants to melt into a liquid) | Power Bestowal with Power Stones (granted Sally identical powers to his own).

Attack Potency: Building level (using his Super Sonic Spin, he has casually tunneled through tens of meters of solid rock on multiple occasions. The reason he can't casually destroy Robotnik's buildings is because they are all entirely comprised of armored metal alloys instead of typical construction materials.) | City Block Level with Power Rings (Capable of easily smashing through a group of SWAT-bots, burrowed through a force-field with a Super-Sonic-Spin. One Power Ring generated enough heat to cause one of Robotnik's massive power plants to melt into a liquid) | City level with Power Stones. (Easily destroyed Robotnik's entire Doomsday facility to rubble within moments).

Destructive Capacity: Island Level: (Once destroyed an entire island as a side-effect of attacking an airship with an abandoned oil derrick. He tunneled tens of meters through rocky soil until he reached the derrick's gear shaft, which he ran on to send a pressurized stream of oil over a hundred feet into the air with enough force to severely damage Robotnik's Cloud Burster airship. This had the delayed effect of generating a powerful enough earthquake that the entire island he was on collapsed into the sea and exploded. It must be noted that this was done without a Power Ring, and while the end result of the feat is Island Level, none of the attacks leading up to that were Island Level on their own. This is also one of the few incidences where Sonic showed any form of fatigue) | Unknown | Unknown

Speed: At least Hypersonic, possibly Massively Hypersonic+ (Can generate a Sonic Boom instantly from a standing position, runs fast enough to leave fire in his wake on multiple occasions, is able to dodge barrages of laser fire with difficulty) Sub-Relativistic reactions (deliberately deflected a laser with a hand mirror, returning it to the SWAT-bot that fired it, once dodged a laser from a cannon that he was plainly looking at, after it had been fired, was able to dodge an intense, close range barrage of laser fire while also dodging flame jets, sawblades, and crushing mechanical limbs before casually tunneling through a rock wall to escape). Much Higher across the board with Power Rings and Deep Power Stones.

Lifting Strength: Class 1 (is able to carry all of the main Freedom Fighters at once with little difficulty) | Unknown | Unknown

Striking Strength: Small Building Class | At least Small Building Class (Can severely damage SWAT-bots with single strikes without building up any speed beforehand)

Durability: Building level (Tunnels through meters of stone with his own body, tanked several explosions without sustaining any noticeable injury - he simply dusted himself off. The blasts were calculated to be at Small Building level) | Unknown | Unknown

Stamina: Sonic is rarely ever shown tiring despite being constantly being on the move while combating against Robotnik and his forces. He also recovers from tiredness very quickly, often within minutes.

Range: Standard melee range, tens of meters through Air Manipulation

Standard Equipment: Several explosives (ranging from sticky mines to timed explosives that can destroy large armored factories) | Scorch Plant Balloons | Power Rings | Power Stones

Intelligence: Gifted. Sonic grew up as a Freedom Fighter during Robotnik's tyrannical rule of the planet, causing him to be very tactical and flexible in his methodology. This is highlighted during his many infiltration missions into Robotnik's heavily guarded facilities: he has demonstrated the ability to adapt the use of his tools and powers in many creative ways, often doing far more damage with far less than seems possible, and has even demonstrated the ability to get in and out of Robotropolis itself entirely without the use of his powers on two separate occasions. He is also adept at analyzing his enemies' capabilities and weaknesses - typically high-technology weapons like Stealth-bombers and robotic soldiers - in mere moments, and can recall working strategies from memory immediately.

Weaknesses: Often displays a lack of patience and an aversion to long-term strategy, preferring to live and think in the moment.

Notable Attacks/Techniques:
  • Super Sonic Spin Attack: By curling himself into a ball and spinning at extreme speeds, Sonic can propel himself into the enemy with extreme force, essentially becoming a cutting disk or a concussive ball at will. This move can tunnel through meters of solid rock and shatter Robotnik's armored robots.
  • Tornado: By running at supersonic speeds in a circle, Sonic can create powerful tornadoes, which he can then direct towards a target.
Key: Base | With a Power Ring | With the Power Stones

EDIT: added a direct link to WildBrain's Sonic The Hedgehog playlist instead of the WildBrain youtube channel itself.​

 
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Starbrand_Fan said:
Shouldn’t his striking strength and durability also be building level?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. the page on Striking Strength itself says:

"Please note that Striking Strength doesn't automatically scale from Attack Potency unless there are Feats suggesting otherwise. For example, if a character used their strongest energy blast to vaporize a city, it would only scale to their physical strength if they were able to harm opponents that can withstand the aforementioned energy blast, or vice-versa."

With that in mind, the way I see Sonic's AP - based on his actions both in this cartoon series and the early Sega Genesis games (which this cartoon's logic is largely based on) - is that Sonic gains attack power with his momentum as he speeds up. That effectively means that his casual punch is NOT going to do as much damage as a Super Sonic Spin. I've seen Sonic using that spin move to tunnel through cubic meters of stone, easily pry open blast doors, and smash heavily armored vehicles to scrap... but he can't do any of that with a casual left hook.

As for his durability, yes, I think I'll upgrade that to Building Level since he has to be able to withstand his own physical impacts. I'll edit the above comment (Post #7) to reflect that change.

On another note, any changes to Sonic's AP should affect Lazaar, since Lazaar's feats are all based on interactions with Sonic. We also need more Sonic (SatAM) profiles in general, since only two of them even exist.
 
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Someone has to do the work. I’m still trying to work myself up to make a Dr. Eggman (Sonic X) Profile. That’s a massive project by itself.

Moving back to the SATAM CRT for now.
 
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I agree with this


Ican'tthinkof1goodname said:
I agree but when should we upgrade Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog
Click to expand...
We are actually downgrading them later due to the 4-A feat being extremely vague, given how the dimension Robotnik was trapped in (containing a starry sky) was never destroyed, nor was their evidence to actually prove the explosion spread across. It was probably only destroying the entrance to trap Robotnik, Warpnik, Scratch, Grounder, and Coconuts in there, not entirely.
 
We need staff approval. Keep bumping everyday till a staff has time to check out this thread. We don't want anything to be claim as invalidated.
 
MikeBro25 said:
someone has to CRT this downgrade
Click to expand...
I really want this CRT to finish up before doing more CRTs that aren't Game or Archie. I'll be starting my watchthrough of SATAM later tonight, to see if I can help the thread move along.
 
MikeBro25 said:
It seems fine enough, after all Satam Sonic is more of a serious show that brings up more serious Archie vibes then the other shows
Click to expand...

In fact,the Archie series was originally licensed as a spinoff of SatAM, which means SatAM was the origin of that darker tone.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
Sonic did display Toon Force in the episode "Heads or Tails" where he halts himself in midair and somehow angers a missile.

Sonic has also scaled walls and buildings with his super speed, so Surface Scaling should stay.
Click to expand...

My proposed edit to Sonic's profile is in Post #7. You'll notice that I didn't remove Surface Scaling, I just clarified how the feat is accomplished.

It's worth noting that "Heads or Tails" is the pilot episode: it's much goofier in tone than the rest of the series, and it's the only episode where SatAM Sonic displays any real Toon Force feats, which is why I disregarded them. You can tell how much goofier it is just by looking at the other episodes I linked above.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
He showcases Fourth Wall Awareness here btw.
Click to expand...

I mentioned that moment in my first post: that's him grabbing the iris-out. Aside from the pilot episode, he never uses this in any fight. Even more, when it was initially released on video tape, the pilot was listed as a "very special episode" because it had never been aired. Since this is a VS site, we should be evaluating the feats that he actually uses in battle, and in that area, the pilot episode is an outlier.
 
Idazmi said:
I mentioned that moment in my first post: that's him grabbing the iris-out. Aside from the pilot episode, he never uses this in any fight. Even more, when it was initially released on video tape, the pilot was listed as a "very special episode" because it had never been aired. Since this is a VS site, we should be evaluating the feats that he actually uses in battle, and in that area, the pilot episode is an outlier.
Click to expand...
Just because an ability isn’t combat applicable doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be listed. Tons of profiles on this site list non-combat related powers.
 
I have a couple of qualms to state.

The lasers being actual lasers is somewhat doubtful. While they share some characteristics, there is also an instance where one of them bounces off a rock and slightly cracks it. There are a couple of other instances too that make them awkward to use. I wouldn't suggest using them for speed scaling.

"There are only two keys: Base and With the Power Stones - even though Sonic is shown to have three tiers of power in the series: his base abilities, his power enhanced the Power Rings, and farther enhanced by the Deep Power Stones."

It's like that because giving a key to the Power Rings isn't really needed. They are literally just temporary stat amps for Sonic and that's it. They can provide other uses at times too, but it's not really enough to warrant its own key. You don't see Goku getting his own key for Kaioken, now do you?

"The Power Stone key is also off. I have no idea why he's listed as Small Building level in this key, considering that his sole feat in that form was completely destroying a city-sized facility in only moments without the slightest shred of fatigue."

This isn't really giving the full context. They do this by going around the facility and gradually destroying it to accumulate the damage they do. This is more of a testament to their speed letting them do this in a quick timeframe; it's not really an applicable City level feat.

"The key also neglected Power Bestowal, as Sonic temporarily gifted Sally identical speed and powers during that entire feat."

Uh, that's why it has Statistics Amplification. That's what it falls more in line as.

"Toon Force - this is highly questionable: SatAM Sonic never showed any Toon Force outside of grabbing the iris-out in exactly one episode (an event that, given the general tone of the series, was pretty jarring)."

There have been more instances than just that. Sonic has shown to halt himself in mid-air, generate fire when running on air, and there are a couple more instances of it. SatAM is darker than most depictions of Sonic, but it still has gag humor here and there. That's not really a good reason to remove the ability.

"Power Nullification - This is simply invalid: the Power Rings are shown to overload electronics and forcefields, they don't just nullify them. They also cause metal to melt into slag when they are jammed inside a gearbox."

There is a literal scene where Sonic uses one to amplify his capabilities opening a hole in the forcefield. They flat out said they couldn't do anything otherwise, so it's very clearly intended the Power Ring allows them to negate it. There is literally nothing about overloading in this scene. The Power Rings nulling stuff isn't out of the blue either because they constantly revert the effects of abilities like the Mind Manipulation effect from Roboticization.

"Mind Manipulation and Memory Manipulation with Power Rings (Can use them fight off the mind-control effects of Roboticization, such as restoring Uncle Chuck's mind to its original state. Also restored Sonic's memories after he was hit with an amnesia-inducing laser)"

This needs to be listed as reverting the effects rather than giving him the full ability. Also, you need to add the Memory Manipulation back in as even the latter part shows it. I'm not sure why you got rid of it in the first place.

"Attack Potency: Building level (using his Super Sonic Spin, he has casually tunneled through tens of meters of solid rock on multiple occasions. The reason he can't casually destroy Robotnik's buildings is because they are all entirely comprised of armored metal alloys instead of typical construction materials.)"

Preferably, this first portion you mentioned should be calculated. Upgrading them to Building level off of that alone needs more support. Also, the latter part isn't something that needs to be noted in the AP. That would be put as a note on the profile at best.

"Since this is a VS site, we should be evaluating the feats that he actually uses in battle, and in that area, the pilot episode is an outlier."

Yeah, no. We apply abilities based on whether someone has them or not; we don't do it based on if they can use them in combat. That fundamentally goes against how abilities are listed on the site. I'm pretty sure I don't have to explain on why making an entire episode an outlier literally makes no sense.
 
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