Sonic the hedgehog abilities

[Theuser789]

Maverick just agreed to those so that’s not really true.

Mav agreed with Omega, no?

Laser also said that IDW isn't canon to the main games,

IDW is canon.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Theuser789 She said that everything that was agreed to stay or go from the pages is fine.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

@Theuser789 She said that everything that was agreed to stay or go from the pages is fine.

I don’t think your point about Chaos’ Regeneration or the Void Manipulation was necessarily agreed upon, since it is still contention from what I see.

To clarify, I agree with all of the unanimously agreed upon removals/changes; the ones still under contention I haven’t commented on for the most part.

 

[JJSliderman]

Alright

The soul binding stuff from Ifrit is passive in the sense that Ifrit is kind of just a rampaging monster who doesn’t really showcase any kind of sentient thought, and it doesn’t really change the fact that none of the characters who currently have the full resistance get affected even when Ifrit is right next to them.

The stuff with Ifrit is definitely regen considering that Silver has destroyed its body multiple times and reduced it to just its flame form, yet it still comes back with new bodies every time. And with Mephiles, he dissolved into goo when Shadow beat him and then recreated his body, so he does use regen in his body creation.

 

[LaserPrecision]

@omegabronic Laser also said that IDW isn't canon to the main games, anything actually stated in the games would help.

I don't recall saying that? If so, my mistake. All I said is that Ian admitted that if the comics contradict the games, go with the games interpretation. I simply used the comics as supplementary material to further hammer in the point that more Chaos Energy = Access to new abilities. IDW is very much canon. Which is a blessing and a curse.

 

[Omegabronic]

Considering a normal Egg-Man can move around without the weird gem as well, along with the rings flying in straight directions, this does not feel like Acasual at all.

The rings are natural in habitants of that realm and eggman wasn't normal, he was inside the klepto mobile, which gives him the acausality

Well this is Holy Manipulation

Considering Chaos Emeralds have both positive and negative energy along with them never really being called divine/sacred I'm not sure they qualify

The positive energy purify and fight off evil energy and emotions, and they performed a miracle in 06 when they revived sonic

This is more just a speed thing rather than a P&A thing

It can't be speed since when they strike they just do it in 1 point in time, they are never depicted as going through all of time periods at once, that doesn't make scaling sense since solaris can co pletely keep up with them, which would allow it to dodge when they tried to do it, i detailed it more here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/sonic-the-hedgehog-abilities.157326/post-6012914

Its invulnerability (though giving that based on a power up seems questionable) or some form of barrier/attack negation. Probably something of the latter rather than the former.

Nah, it stops hax from affecting you in game

Seems more like gravity manipulation

It erases things from existance

If they don't fundamentally change a concept or effect it, it wouldn't be conceptual manipulation.

Sonic already has it removed, it was just an oversight

It would be for the following:

Which would qualify it for Life manipulation.

There is also a manual saying that it gives vitality to all living things

From the page the moon rock-form is just an avatar. The true form of the End is a formless being

Yep

They would need to be explained better on the pages.

What you see as death is what you will see the end as

 

[Theglassman12]

@Maverick_Zero_X That’s what I meant by “everything that was agreed to stay and go” considering we still have the offensive time travel stuff going on.

@LaserPrecision Ok, you made it a bit confusing since you said there was contradictions.

 

[Theglassman12]

Bump

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

After off site discussions I'm leaning towards agreeing with offensive time travel staying.

 

[Theglassman12]

Bump

 

[Theglassman12]

bump

 

[Theglassman12]

Bump

 

[Eseseso]

Bump

What needs to be concluded?

 

[Omegabronic]

What needs to be concluded?

More staff input

 

[Theglassman12]

Bump

 

[Theglassman12]

@Starter_Pack @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 Need your input to finish this thread.

 

[Firestorm808]

At a glance, the current bolded agreements in the OP make sense.

 

[Omegabronic]

pretty sure i already posted before, but ok, here it is said that attacking solaris in the "now" as in, one time period, would do nothing as it exists in space through all time periods, aka past, present and future, and here it is said that they need to destroy it in all time periods "all at once", which in the context of what eggman said, we know that "it" is Solaris, so it is a very clear statement that they will attack Solaris in all time periods at once to be able to defeat it, this is implied even in the dialogue during the fight as well

At a glance, the current bolded agreements in the OP make sense.

If it isn't asking too much, what do you think of the counters to the offensive time travel removal points?

 

[Theglassman12]

@Firestorm808 Here’s my refutes to the temporal nuke. Read from that point on to see my stance.

 

[Firestorm808]

I would think the Chaos Emerald Time Travel is quick enough to be used in a fight if that's what you're asking.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Firestorm808 He’s asking if them being able to attack someone’s entire history with their hits is something viable and not just either a range feat or just them being fast. Cause the entire argument stems from the Super forms fighting off Solaris, which is a temporally omnipresent being.

 

[Firestorm808]

@Firestorm808 He’s asking if them being able to attack someone’s entire history with their hits is something viable and not just either a range feat or just them being fast. Cause the entire argument stems from the Super forms fighting off Solaris, which is a temporally omnipresent being.

Hypothetically speaking, if Solaris was only defeated in the present, would Solaris still exist omnipresently?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Hypothetically speaking, if Solaris was only defeated in the present, would Solaris still exist omnipresently?

Attacking it in only one time period is stated by Eggman to be ineffective, if that helps

 

[Eseseso]

Though tbh, if the damage done by a Super Form to Solaris damaged it across all time, why did they need 3 hedgehogs to go to different time periods? One in the present (or all 3 in the present) would've been able to defeat it if this was the case.

 

[JJSliderman]

They never actually say the hedgehogs are each in a separate time period, the only indication of that is each one stating a specific era, but that can also just be for thematic reasons (I.E Shadow’s arc deals with the past, Silver’s the future, and Sonic is about living in the present), and Silver and Shadow saying they can destroy Solaris all at once if Sonic was there (which can be just a power thing as opposed to range)

 

[Eseseso]

They never actually say the hedgehogs are each in a separate time period, the only indication of that is each one stating a specific era, but that can also just be for thematic reasons (I.E Shadow’s arc deals with the past, Silver’s the future, and Sonic is about living in the present), and Silver and Shadow saying they can destroy Solaris all at once if Sonic was there (which can be just a power thing as opposed to range)

Fair, but why did Sonic have to give Silver and Shadow Super forms if he could've won on his own?

 

[CloverDragon03]

"Can" doesn't mean it is, especially given that Eggman stated that attacking Solaris in one time period would've been meaningless

 

[LaserPrecision]

Fair, but why did Sonic have to give Silver and Shadow Super forms if he could've won on his own?

Sonic has the power to defeat Solaris alone. Not the time to. They were working on a clock before all of existence collapsed into nothingness. So 3v1'ing would naturally make taking them out quicker. I think that's the consensus that was made in another CRT a while back, but I'm not 100% certain.

 

[Eseseso]

"Can" doesn't mean it is, especially given that Eggman stated that attacking Solaris in one time period would've been meaningless

So if they can't just attack in one time period, doesn't that kinda disprove the "temporal nuke"?

Otherwise why not attack him with all 3 Super Forms in the present.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Firestorm808 Eggman said destroying its present would mean nothing since it exists in the past present and future, the main issue with this ability that I have is that not only is it never stated to be an innate power for Super forms but this is only ever mentioned against Solaris, who’s a special case due to his existence and no other being that has fought Super forms has any statements of their entire history being affected by just getting hit by them.

 

[JJSliderman]

It’s just a passive ability of their attacks at their strongest, which only a select few enemies (like the Egg Wizard and The End), can really encounter.

 

[Theglassman12]

Bump

 

[Theglassman12]

Bump

 

[Theglassman12]

Bump

 

[Firestorm808]

Well, whether Solaris was defeated in 1 point of time or 3 points of time, the fact of the matter is that it's entire temporal existance was affected.

Since we only have context that 3 beings did it, I would suggest just limited potency of this ability.

 

[JJSliderman]

The range of the effect isn’t limited, one hedgehog can hit every point Solaris is at because they can deal all the damage necessary to Solaris phase 2 (It’s unanchored self) and Solaris’s consciousness (which is part of Solaris’ body and thus should share his physiology) by themselves. I checked.

 

[Theglassman12]

bump

 

[Theglassman12]

Bump

 

[JJSliderman]

I forget, what else needs to be discussed?

 

[Theglassman12]

literally the solaris stuff is all that's left, everything else is done.