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I don't see any reason to wait, just address the arguments for aca type 4.Bump
you mean the type 2 and perception manip stuff?I’m waiting for Omega to respond on the End points before I make my comment towards type 4.
agree with thisAbstract Existence and Nonexistent physiology: Being the embodiment of death is type 2 AE, not type 1 since embodiment means being a physical form of something
well, it being said to be nothing seens to imply that.......it is nothing, wouldn't it?, also is it remotely elaborated on by "infinite and nothing" cause that seems too vague for NEP.
will copilate a couple of its statements about itself, it will take a little while, so be patient i askMay I see the statement? Scrolling through the profile and I could not find it myself.
in this case it does because it is in reference to sonic defeating/destroying it, it can't be shapeshifting if it is refering to the fact that "it" being destroyed will not matter as it will come back always with a new "form"/avatarIncarnation doesn’t help for Abstract Existence much, no matter what form I take also just sounds more like shapeshifting more than AE it doesn’t mention he’s tied to an idea that lets him be immortal or control said abstract thing.
The scan for this needs to be on the profileQuoting @ShadowWarrior1999 the one who made the upgrade to type 4:
the reason it qualifies as type 4 acausality is that the realm in question, Egg Reverie Zone shows a demonstrable effect on the characters that enter it. Base characters can’t function and are left in limbo. With how time behaves in it, switching back and forth, effect precedes cause which means it has a different system of causality. On another note, Solaris despite his temporal omnipresence is unable to predict the super forms’ attacks on him which further supports the notion of super forms being acausal.
The avatar is the embodiment of the true selfThat does go against what the devs says about it being the embodiment of death itself when an embodiment means a physical form.
Ok, possibly AE type 2 it is thenAt best it’s type 2 given type 1 is you lack a physical form to begin with. If it’s only implied then that’s possible abstract existence at best.
I'm not a Sonic supporter, so I'm just going to try to say what I understood about Acausuality type 4.Alright, time to address the type 4 acausality stuff.
First off there's no mention whatsoever that the base forms of the characters cannot function in the realm, all that's shown is that they're floating in the air, which at best from that showcase is just warped gravity kicking in. Transforming into the super forms to stop this just grants them resistance to gravity manipulation. The timer going out of loop also doesn't tell me anything about the super forms functioning on a different set of cause and effect rules, just that time just acts weird, which again at best would only apply to natural residents of the reverie zone, not the super forms unless specified they can function in these different rules.
Solaris not being able to predict the attacks doesn't really prove acausality either, ignoring how he doesn't have any form of precognition on his page so this argument doesn't have much ground as even if he had precog, this would only grant the super forms precog resistance. Unless there's any statements that super forms function on different set of laws than normal, I'm not seeing type 4 from the points in this thread given the nature of the ability requires actual statements on the nature of one's being rather than some visual showcase as it can be interpreted in any other way.
Solaris not being able to predict the attacks doesn't really prove acausality either, ignoring how he doesn't have any form of precognition on his page so this argument doesn't have much ground as even if he had precog, this would only grant the super forms precog resistance. Unless there's any statements that super forms function on different set of laws than normal, I'm not seeing type 4 from the points in this thread given the nature of the ability requires actual statements on the nature of one's being rather than some visual showcase as it can be interpreted in any other way.
I mean, I understand this thing to be resistance to time manipulation, since in super Sonic mode he can move normally.@Phsccarvalho that just sounds like a resistance to time manipulation, and plus Acausality is something you need some statements to prove since type 4 in particular means you don’t function on the same laws as the normal world. Unless the Super forms have anything like that I’m not seeing type 4 for them.
On the wiki of life there is a description of the Zone:You aren't getting statments in a game with no dialogue like Sonic Mania, unless there's something in Egg Reverie description in the Enciclopedia.
A barren wasteland where neither time nor space exist.
Interesting.@Phsccarvalho That's still just time manipulation resistance if he can resist the flow of time going in reverse for him and not lose his rings. Also time and space not existing, even if that was stated in the game wouldn't apply to the super forms since they're not the natural residents of this world to begin with.
no one is manipulating time at all, that is just how time works on the Egg reverie zone's reality, their "law of time" per say@Phsccarvalho that just sounds like a resistance to time manipulation
the entirety of the Egg Reverie Zone is them working on a universe with different laws as explained above, even tho time goes backwards and fowards, which would make the actions and causes also go crazy, all the actions that they perform stay performed even tho they should be undone as soon as they are made per how time, and by proxy cause and effect, have been shown to work in the zone, so they should qualify, besides the solaris support point, and plus Acausality is something you need some statements to prove
since type 4 in particular means you don’t function on the same laws as the normal world. Unless the Super forms have anything like that I’m not seeing type 4 for them.
no it isn't, the zone time is just like that naturally@omegabronic the zone is manipulating time thoug
them resisting time manipulation wouldn't stop the actions they perform on other things to be completely undone and redone every moment, an individual not manipulating it doesn't disprove my point that them being unfazed by the time fuckery just sounds like time manipulation resistance
can you explain why? When the chars are shown working on the laws of said world would imply that they function on the samw laws as said worlsThat hardly counts as acausality though, the point of acausality type 4 is you're stated to function completely different from the normal rules of the world. Time being messed up and all that jazz for the realm would only grant type 4 Acausality to the natural residents of said world.
As i said, resistance wouldn't be enough for his actions to remain done normally thereSuper Sonic and the rest aren't natural residents, they just have a boost that lets them move around normally and not be fazed, which is at best resistance to gravity and time hax without any further context.
No, it means that the timeflow there is different from the normal universe, that's itYou just admit the zone’s time is messy like that naturally, meaning it’s distorting time.
no it wouldn't, or else every ring sonic geta there would moments after get un absorbed and then re absorbed due to how time works and its relation to cause and effectSo resisting the effects of the reverie zone would accomplish just that.
we see that they work differently, and i believe i have explained very thought out why a simple resistance of sonic to time manip wouldn't be enough for his actions and effects to remain normal thereBecause there’s no statements that suggest they function on different laws in the first place, you’re making an assumption that the only reason they’re able to function in that realm is the Acausality when nothing remotely implies that.
no because it doesn't solve the problem and leaves stuff about what we see unexplainedIf there’s no explanation for that beyond just the visual showcase we take it as a resistance feat at best.
Most of the series you linked have acausal chars, nonetheless, bring specific examples, i am not going to search entire verse pages just to see 1 example of what you are arguing
Why would that be needed? It id logical, time going back and forth = the state/cause and efgect of things also go back and forth, the ring collected would go back to a previous stage of not being absorbed and then go to the state of being absorbed again, which wouldn't able to be solved with a simple resistance by sonicIs that remotely stated that the rings are warped all over the place and that Sonic can fight off that effect of the rings being warped everywhere because of his existence in super form? Because that’s needed for your argument to work.
It wouldn't since it would be a resistance for him, it wouldn't matter for the other things non related to him that are affect by his sphere of causalityIt doesn’t, being unaffected by time would already accomplish that.
Define "distorted" because the way time isn't distorted in the egg reverie zone, time is just like that normally, with the way it functions being very specific of it going back and forth flowing non linearly, give me examples that show that the places in those verses are anywhere similar to what the egg reverie zone has shownthe human hunters in DMC, The Belmonts and any human hunters in Castlevania, literally anyone that isn’t a monster in final fantasy, and everyone in BlazBlue just goes to a realm that has everything distorted, time, existence, etc. and they’re fine because they just resist the effects of the place, not because of an Acausal thing, otherwise everyone and their mother in all of these franchises would be type 4 for that reason alone.