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I guess you can just say in the description that the user needs to defeat an omnipresent being in the "past" "present" and "future" in order to overcome that entire omnipresence.
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Sonic the hedgehog abilities
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So you think the temporal nuke should be reduced to only being used for temporally omnipresent beings (and/or those with Type 3 Acausality which focuses on being at multiple points in time)?
If so, The End would need to have his Type 4 Acausality removed.
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As a further justification of the temporal nuke?
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It's just my attempt to add context to overcoming Solaris's Omnipresence. I don't think "Temporal Nuking" is the conventional way of labeling this kind of hax. Is there another phrase for it? Negate Acausality Type?
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In this case it is made clear that they are but attacking solaris across all time periods at once to deafeat him for good, something like "acausality negation" is never implied in the game
Besides, assuming that they gain an ability from simply fighting someone, when nothing is implying it feels like headcanon tbh
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Time manipulation or time travel with attacks (it's listed on profile already). Considering Solaris omnipresence only allows him to be so at a single point in space in every instance of time you would only need to strike his body at every point in time.
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Yes, the characters can attack, and those attacks hit Solaris at every point in time, without any kind of activated ability.
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@Firestorm808 So I assume you're stance is "it's specific to whatever omnipresent beings Sonic and co. fight"?
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It being specific doesn’t make sense, it’s just an ability Super forms have at their most powerful.
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I'm just saying that if Sonic were to fight any other temporally omnipresent being, the methodology should be about the same: Attack 3 points in time of the beings existance to affect the entire thing.
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So a limited form of an ability then? @Firestorm808
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All of sonic's attacks affect Solris trough all of time even when he is in just 1 time period
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Was each hedgehog doing their own fight a requirement or not?
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No, in the game nothing about that was said, only saying that they will be able to beat solaris if they have Sonic with them, which the guide explains that it was because of Solaris' power, and how even the might of super sonic alone wouldn't be able to top over solaris's, explicitly noting that it was a matter of Strenght that required the 3 of them to fight togeter rather than anything else
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The fact you can deal all the necessary damage to end the Solaris fight’s second phase with just one hedgehog should help demonstrate that each hedgehog has the range necessary to affect all of Solaris.
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@JJSliderman you do realize this begs to question on why bother having shadow and silver amped in the first place if sonic can do this by himself, the fact he does this imply he cannot just solo Solaris, making the "one hedgehog run" a game mechanic thing at best.
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the important part is that each hedgehog can harm all of Solaris' history individually
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But they needed to do this together in order for Solaris to die across history. Otherwise there wouldn't be any point to amping Shadow and Silver if Sonic can erase his entire history by himself.
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Or… Solaris is just strong enough that only Super Sonic isn’t enough?
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I think this makes the most sense, but it still wouldn't explain why they each had to be in different time periods.
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@CloverDragon03 You do realize this goes against their point on a single hedgehog soloing him right? Plus eggman even said destroying him in the present means nothing as he exists in the past, present and future.
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It doesn’t. Solaris is strong enough that just Super Sonic isn’t enough, but each of the three can at least harm him in all of past, present, and future. You can harm someone and still have lower AP
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they still needed to fight him, the guide explicitly says as much, the only reason Sonic needed help was because Solaris was too strong for Super Sonic alone to take care of the job, it was a matter of power
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This is true.
I'll check the guidebook statements for the Solaris fight, see if they say anything.
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we actually have no information on that, we don't even know if they were in different time periods from each other, this is a speculation based on some lines in the boss fight, but what matters most is that independent if they were in different time periods or not, all 3 of them can individually attack Solaris across all of his history
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From what I understand, the feat (in Canon-Story) needed 3 guys at their Super Forms to be performed, so it should not only be directed to their Super keys, but also done with the help of two others, it's situational as far as the descriptions of the event go, and shouldn't be used freely by a single character passively unless some scan, quote or proof appears to confirm that
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@CloverDragon03 If super sonic isn't enough then he couldn't have soloed solaris in the first place, making this claim even more illegitimate.
@omegabronic Which doesn't remotely explain the historical nuking the characters can do on their own. Plus eggman himself literally said destroying his present means nothing, what he said had nothing to do with power.
@omegabronic Which doesn't remotely explain the historical nuking the characters can do on their own. Plus eggman himself literally said destroying his present means nothing, what he said had nothing to do with power.
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the proof has already been said, each hedgehog can do the feat individually without help, what they needed help for was to match Solaris' power, not to attack him and damage him through History
the main point is that he can DAMAGE him and FINISH him off, wether or not he could match his power on his own in a fight is not relevant to the argument
it very much does, they attack, harm all of his history, hence the damage to him stays the same in all time periods, it is a very simple thing, i really don't see a problem that you are seeing at all, it is very blatant on the nose stuff
you.....are you really ignoring the guide scan i showed earlier? in response to what eggman said, silver responded that he would destroy all of Solaris' past, present and future to counter and truly destroy it, which is said by Shadow to work to kill Solaris, what eggman says doesn't disprove anything that i have said at all, in fact it helps the argument since normal damage in 1 time period would matter to nothing on Solaris, so any damage given to him would need to be done in all of his history for it to matter, which is supported by Silver and Shadow, and in game where all super forms can individually deal sustaining damage to Solaris and give the final blow to finish him off
i feel like you are reaching a little and overcomplicating a very simple situation here
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I never said he has to solo him, that’s a strawman. They can individually damage him and finish him off but they can’t 1v1 him because he’s too strong
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While a single hedgehog can deal all the necessary damage, it is impossible to do in one continuous loop, as there is not enough rings without recharging. Hence, having 3 hedgehogs not only offers more power, but more opportunities to recharge.
Sonic did not amp Shadow and Silver, he just turned them Super by sharing his energy. And they are never said to be in separate time periods explicitly at any point.
Sonic did not amp Shadow and Silver, he just turned them Super by sharing his energy. And they are never said to be in separate time periods explicitly at any point.
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In the game manual (shout-out to the ABSOLUTE CHAD @Fireld for finding this), it only says (on page 320) that Super Sonic isn't strong enough to fight Solaris alone.
Though if Sonic, Silver, and Shadow weren't at different points in time, this would have to be removed from their Super Forms' speed justification:
whose attacks are shown to be throughout all of time itself due to them appearing in the past, present, and future alike.
Immeasurable speed is still valid, since they can keep up with (and in Sonic's case even blitz) Solaris and Super Sonic has other immeasurable stuff.
Though if Sonic, Silver, and Shadow weren't at different points in time, this would have to be removed from their Super Forms' speed justification:
whose attacks are shown to be throughout all of time itself due to them appearing in the past, present, and future alike.
Immeasurable speed is still valid, since they can keep up with (and in Sonic's case even blitz) Solaris and Super Sonic has other immeasurable stuff.
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Wait...
Did we seriously have the "shown throughout all of time itself" part justified by symbolism? (Sonic representing the present, Shadow representing the past, and Silver representing the future)
Did we seriously have the "shown throughout all of time itself" part justified by symbolism? (Sonic representing the present, Shadow representing the past, and Silver representing the future)
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Yep, hence why we might need to axe the section I mentioned above from the Super Forms' speed.
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No, it’s just that since Solaris’s body is spread across all of time, and his attacks originate from his body, it makes sense his attacks are across all of time as well.
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i went there already, there is nothing much of what has already been said, now if you still want to look
Sonic retro is the best site cataloging this type of thing for sonic, they have other stuff as well, it is a very solid site for any Sonic Fan, me thinks
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This, the justification can may be slightly altered, but the crux of the feat stays the same regardless of this small time period detail
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@omegabronic Thats not relevant to this specific point, the argument is that Sonic could just defeat Solaris by himself by playing the boss by himself, which makes no sense when Silver and Shadow is needed for the fight.
That’s not blatant on the nose stuff when you’ve never proven that this is an innate ability for super forms in the first place.
Which guide scan are you referring to?
@CloverDragon03 Which means they cannot do it by themselves, therefore the idea of 1v1’ing Solaris to erase his entire history like what JJ was arguing makes no sense when it’s a team effort to do this in the first place.
That’s not blatant on the nose stuff when you’ve never proven that this is an innate ability for super forms in the first place.
Which guide scan are you referring to?
@CloverDragon03 Which means they cannot do it by themselves, therefore the idea of 1v1’ing Solaris to erase his entire history like what JJ was arguing makes no sense when it’s a team effort to do this in the first place.
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That is not an argument i used, so no idea why you are directing this to me
yes, i have, it is stated that they needed to that, they are shown doing that, then they can do that, that is blatant, i have presented proof, all you have been doing is just saying "no you didn't" without showing counter proof to the proofs i showed
Sonic the hedgehog abilities
@Starter_Pack literally the only thing left to talk about is the Temporal nuke with the strikes, which I've yet to see any evidence for plus it was already accepted to be a range feat. @omegabronic Even though a majority of the OP is already accepted to have some changes or removals? Like the...
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What I said was a single character can deal all the necessary damage, which is true, however they would not be able to do so by themselves regardless, due to lack of sustain.
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