Sonic the hedgehog abilities

[Theglassman12]

@omegabronic It was argued towards JJ, you responded it for whatever reason.

It’s stated that they needed to kill it in the past present and future, and that killing it here would do nothing, it doesn’t remotely mention super forms having this as an innate ability.

Ok so that just proves my point even more that the game mechanic argument JJ was making made even less sense when it’s stated in the guidebook that he couldn’t do it by himself. Still not convinced this is something any super form can do on their own and at best needs numerous other folks to help them out with.

 

[Omegabronic]

@omegabronic It was argued towards JJ, you responded it for whatever reason.

I see, sorry for that

It’s stated that they needed to kill it in the past present and future, and that killing it here would do nothing, it doesn’t remotely mention super forms having this as an innate ability.

"If you say it exists in the past, present and future, i'll destroy them all at once"
Besides, if it is said that they needed to destroy his entire history to defeat him, and then they do just that.......well, the conclusion is extremely obvious, they attacked him and destroyed him across his entire history, you can't get more blatant than that

Ok so that just proves my point even more that the game mechanic argument JJ was making made even less sense when it’s stated in the guidebook that he couldn’t do it by himself. Still not convinced this is something any super form can do on their own and at best needs numerous other folks to help them out with.

Each super form can deal sustainig damage to Solaris, which is only possible if they attack him in all of his history or else he would only be harmed in 1 period instead of his entire being

I have repeated this......over and over, and you didn't once akcnowledged it, you keep going on circles repeating the same stuff, you didn't countered the main argument

 

[CloverDragon03]

@CloverDragon03 Which means they cannot do it by themselves, therefore the idea of 1v1’ing Solaris to erase his entire history like what JJ was arguing makes no sense when it’s a team effort to do this in the first place.

Because of Solaris's power, as stated in the guide, which notes that Solaris is too strong for Super Sonic to face alone. This is not a point against their ability to harm him across all of time

 

[Eseseso]

Bump

 

[Fezzih_007]

I have a question actually, does the Super Form ever use this offense time travel again?

 

[JJSliderman]

There’s not really any enemy where it’s explicitly needed again, Solaris is the only temporal omnipresent in the franchise.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Solaris is the only temporal omnipresent in the franchise.

The Master Emerald is temporally omnipresent.

 

[JJSliderman]

My mistake, only temporal omnipresent boss

 

[Theglassman12]

Finally done with an exam, might only be available for a little bit this week before school comes back to haunt me.

@CloverDragon03 Except that harming someone across time is not an AP centric ability, that’s specifically a hax ability unless stated in the series that being stronger renders the Hax inefficient.

@omegabronic it’s fine.

With help from 2 other hedgehogs in order to do this. This clearly isn’t something they can do on their own even when giving them the benefit of the doubt that this a passive ability that every super form has.

And you haven’t remotely proven this is a passive ability for every super form and you’ve also repeated the same arguments over and over again.

 

[Omegabronic]

With help from 2 other hedgehogs in order to do this. This clearly isn’t something they can do on their own even when giving them the benefit of the doubt that this a passive ability that every super form has.

they don't need 2 other hedgehogs to harm Solaris, that they can do on their own, beat him however? that they need to work together, you seen to be not understanding what the ability even is, it makes it so that the super forms harm someone across all of their history, that's how each of them can even harm Solaris the way they do in the first place

And you haven’t remotely proven this is a passive ability for every super form

that i did, all super forms gain their powers from the Chaos Emeralds, what one can do, the other should also be capable of

and you’ve also repeated the same arguments over and over again.

if you give the same points, then i have to give the same counter points, i don't have much of a choice, hence why i stopped answering after a while

 

[CloverDragon03]

@CloverDragon03 Except that harming someone across time is not an AP centric ability, that’s specifically a hax ability unless stated in the series that being stronger renders the Hax inefficient.

Each hedgehog can individually harm Solaris across all time. But as far as AP goes, all three were needed because Solaris was too strong for Super Sonic to fight on his own. That’s all

 

[Theuser789]

This thread feels as if it's been stuck at the same point for two pages now.

 

[Theglassman12]

@CloverDragon03 still doesn't really explain how this is never remotely mentioned in any other time the super forms are used and how they're never stated to nuke anyone else's entire history.

@omegabronic Said ability is a hax thing, something never remotely stated or implied to be something every single super form can do. It's not that I don't understand the ability, I know what this ability is, my problem is you're extrapolating this to everyone else with these forms when this isn't remotely stated to be an ability for super forms like how invulnerability is.

Still not really explaining passive history nuking at all.

And vice versa, if this is all this debate is gonna boil down to we might as well just get other staff members to finish this.

@Theuser789 Probably because it is, and barely anyone's bothering to evaluate.

 

[CloverDragon03]

@CloverDragon03 still doesn't really explain how this is never remotely mentioned in any other time the super forms are used and how they're never stated to nuke anyone else's entire history.

Well, obviously. Solaris is the only temporally omnipresent foe Sonic and friends have ever faced. Why would it be brought up again if it wasn't necessary? This is a moot point honestly

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Well, obviously. Solaris is the only temporally omnipresent foe Sonic and friends have ever faced. Why would it be brought up again if it wasn't necessary? This is a moot point honestly

And like, Sonic is a game (for the most part). It's not like every Sonic game will address every ability Sonic has had in previous games, super form or not.

We know Super Sonic can do this, and he's never had a ubiquitous opponent like this again (as far as I know)

It would be like, taking away Sonic's powers that he has in x game just because you can't use that same power in a future game or that it was never mentioned again.

 

[Omegabronic]

@omegabronic Said ability is a hax thing, something never remotely stated or implied to be something every single super form can do. It's not that I don't understand the ability, I know what this ability is, my problem is you're extrapolating this to everyone else with these forms when this isn't remotely stated to be an ability for super forms like how invulnerability is.

same power source, same font of the powers, same super form, they are powered by the same thing, they are using the same form, there is no power 1 super form has that another shouldn't have, since they are all the same thing

Still not really explaining passive history nuking at all.

i did, numerous times, you didn't countered any of them

And vice versa, if this is all this debate is gonna boil down to we might as well just get other staff members to finish this.

sure sure

 

[Theglassman12]

@CloverDragon03 for something like giving the other bosses type 4 Acausality via history nuking resistance, something that’s either a resistance feat or type 1 at best, that’s gonna need some statements to help.

@Starter_Pack @LephyrTheRevanchist Can you give your inputs here so we can finish this?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@CloverDragon03 for something like giving the other bosses type 4 Acausality via history nuking resistance, something that’s either a resistance feat or type 1 at best, that’s gonna need some statements to help.

@Starter_Pack @LephyrTheRevanchist Can you give your inputs here so we can finish this?

You're gonna have to give me a summary

 

[Theglassman12]

all of the discussions on the OP except for offensive time travel is done. It’s stemmed from the super forms harming Solaris who’s temporally omnipresent, but I’m arguing it’s not something they can do on their own since they had to fight it across time to kill it. Plus the ability is never mentioned as a passive thing for the Super forms, which results in type 4 Acausality for the bosses via tanking punches despite type 1 or a resistance feat being the lowball assumption.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

all of the discussions on the OP except for offensive time travel is done. It’s stemmed from the super forms harming Solaris who’s temporally omnipresent, but I’m arguing it’s not something they can do on their own since they had to fight it across time to kill it. Plus the ability is never mentioned as a passive thing for the Super forms, which results in type 4 Acausality for the bosses via tanking punches despite type 1 or a resistance feat being the lowball assumption.

They already have Immeasurable speed from the Solaris fight. So that's simply redundant.

 

[Theglassman12]

So I assume you disagree with the offensive time travel then? How about the rest of the OP cause I need staff input for that.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

IMO it should be offensive time travel and not immeasurable speed

 

[Omegabronic]

They already have Immeasurable speed from the Solaris fight. So that's simply redundant.

problem is, the Super Forms attack in 1 time period always, they never quickly travel in all of time to hit Solaris, it was even explained that they needed to hit him(refering to his past, present and future) "all at once"

i made a resume about it here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/sonic-the-hedgehog-abilities.157326/page-2#post-6012914

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

problem is, the Super Forms attack in 1 time period always, they never quickly travel in all of time to hit Solaris, it was even explained that they needed to hit him(refering to his past, present and future) "all at once"

i made a resume about it here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/sonic-the-hedgehog-abilities.157326/page-2#post-6012914

Downgrade their immeasurable speed then.

Until then, gotta agree with Glass.

 

[Omegabronic]

They already have Immeasurable speed from the Solaris fight. So that's simply redundant.

also, the thing in the solaris fight that gives them immeasurable is completely different from the one that gives offensive time travel, they dodging temporal omnipresent attacks is the immeasurable feat, them attacking Solaris and harming all of his history is offensive time travel

 

[Omegabronic]

Downgrade their immeasurable speed then.

they have other feats for it outside of Solaris, so it wouldn't be a downgrade

 

[Eseseso]

Downgrade their immeasurable speed then.

1. Super Sonic scales to the Team Eater, who has Immeasurable speed.

2. IIRC earlier in this thread someone reworded Immeasurable scaling to Solaris. Something about how "if he exists in all of time (past, present, and future), so do his energy beams".

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

1. Super Sonic scales to the Team Eater, who has Immeasurable speed.

2. IIRC earlier in this thread someone reworded Immeasurable scaling to Solaris. Something about how "if he exists in all of time (past, present, and future), so do his energy beams".

Then yeah, even more redundant.

 

[Eseseso]

Then yeah, even more redundant.

Then what do you think about the temporal nuking?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Then what do you think about the temporal nuking?

They don't need it.

They are immeasurable and attacked him together across all of time. 3 immeasurables going through the different time periods.

Again, is simply redundant.

 

[Omegabronic]

They don't need it.

They are immeasurable and attacked him together across all of time. 3 immeasurables going through the different time periods.

Again, is simply redundant.

for this to be the case Solaris must not have reacted to then in all of the periods he existed in, which is impossible since he directly scales to them

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah it is redundant, they can dodge Solaris’s projectiles which can hit across all of time, and Sonic can damage Solaris at every point in time with movement alone, so it’s not a huge stretch that Shadow and Silver just apply their immeasurable speed to their projectiles.

 

[Omegabronic]

Yeah it is redundant, they can dodge Solaris’s projectiles which can hit across all of time, and Sonic can damage Solaris at every point in time with movement alone, so it’s not a huge stretch that Shadow and Silver just apply their immeasurable speed to their projectiles.

That doesn't make sense, you are suggesting that the hogs somehow blitzed solaris an infinite ammount of times through all time periods without him being able to do anything about it in any of them

 

[JJSliderman]

Yes, Sonic does outright blitz Solaris.

 

[Fezzih_007]

That doesn't make sense, you are suggesting that the hogs somehow blitzed solaris an infinite ammount of times through all time periods without him being able to do anything about it in any of them

Why that don't make sense?

 

[Omegabronic]

Yes, Sonic does outright blitz Solaris.

no, he doesn't, Solaris can react to Sonic silver and shadow, raising its arms to protect against them all, with Sonic only able to outspeed it with a full charged attack

 

[Omegabronic]

Why that don't make sense?

how do you blitz Someone that can react to you in multiple instances, across infinite instances?

 

[Eseseso]

Isn't Sonic being faster than Solaris's reactions one of Sonic's current immeasurable speed feats?

 

[Omegabronic]

Isn't Sonic being faster than Solaris's reactions one of Sonic's current immeasurable speed feats?

only when using the "Arrow of light" technique

 

[Fezzih_007]

how do you blitz Someone that can react to you in multiple instances, across infinite instances?

I see what you saying, but would't that make them way faster in some instances?