Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[Imaginym]

During the final boss in Shadow the Hedgehog, Eggman explicitly confirms to Shadow that he is the real Shadow. He was just in a coma for awhile after he fell from space back down to Earth.

The Shadow Android plot point in Heroes was practically dropped after that game.

I understand this might be a bit redundant, are we certain Shadow the Hedgehog: Dark Beginnings is based on the Shadow the Hedgehog game, &/or that the protagonist is the real Shadow, though?

For what it's worth, an android Shadow might not sleep in a field, I guess.
In theory, maybe it had to reboot from falling from space or a power-down for maintenance or such. Not unheard of for fictional robots to have an equivalent to sleep.

But why would a genuine ultimate lifeform who isn't an android get technology-like video glitches in his visions from a biological space alien?

I just find it an odd detail, & the only explanation I've been told so far in this thread is "Nightmare weirdness".

Perhaps more episodes will make it clearer, but I wonder if there aren't other ways to tell apart Shadow & his Android counterparts again. If they're revisiting his backstory, might be neat to bring that up again.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I understand this might be a bit redundant, are we certain Shadow the Hedgehog: Dark Beginnings is based on the Shadow the Hedgehog game, &/or that the protagonist is the real Shadow, though?

Dark Beginnings is meant to be a tie in to Sonic x Shadow Generations, which is further in the timeline after Shadow the Hedgehog (the game). Not to mention that Black Doom is alive once more and Shadow mentions in in game dialogue that he thought he died, so it's pretty concrete that the Shadow we see is the real deal.

But why would a genuine ultimate lifeform who isn't an android get technology-like video glitches in his visions from a biological space alien?

Shadow the Hedgehog (the game) reveals that Professor Gerald couldn't fully complete Shadow until he came into contact with Black Doom and made a deal where Gerald gives Black Doom the Chaos Emerald's and, in exchange, Black Doom finishes Shadow by giving him Black Arms DNA. While not explicitly stated yet, since I'm sure the next episode will give us insight into Shadow's hallucinations, my current theory is that Black Doom is using Shadow's Black Arms DNA to psychologically toy with him with intense hallucinations of his past.

 

[Executor_N0]

Is The Ark not the moon? It looked huge in the view of the sky.

Fun trivia, for a time Sonic's world had more than one moon while they were working on the "two worlds" setting, but when the setting was retconned back to "one world", one of the Sonic Channel stories stated that the Ark is actually understood as a second moon in the night sky, basically retconning the two+ moons scenarios as being the Ark. So in a way, yes, it's a "moon".

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Fun trivia, for a time Sonic's world had more than one moon while they were working on the "two worlds" setting, but when the setting was retconned back to "one world", one of the Sonic Channel stories stated that the Ark is actually understood as a second moon in the night sky, basically retconning the two+ moons scenarios as being the Ark. So in a way, yes, it's a "moon".

I'm a bit out of the loop here, can you give me a summarized version of the two worlds setting concept? Because maybe I don't understand what the original intention was, but I could've sworn that there was always ever going to be one world inhabited by the furry characters and humans

 

[Snek]

This is random but with Earth being bigger than ours, in Sonic, would the moon also be equivalently larger?

Speaking of Sonic's Earth I have afew questions about the calc that I want clarification on before I go Gung ho and make a CRT. Anyways thanks for the input to anyone who responds.

• Why was half a pixel used for angel islands size?
• Why was the S3@K end accepted instead of the SA2 or unleashed calcs which are both from more recent games? Especially when S3@K was more limited in what it could artistically present. [Side note even in tailstube the unleashed map is shown when Tails is talking about the planet.]
• Why wasn't KE used when the calc had all the variables for it but didn't have a known acceleration rate for force? The reason I say that is because when it got to F = ma 9.81m/s^2 was used which is the gravitational pull of Earth which means that acceleration wasn't actually known. To be fair that's a good lowball to not inflate the calc but why use Work instead of KE when we have 100% known variables for KE but don't have every variable needed for Work?
• Why was regular velocity used in the acceleration formula for the lifting strength part of the calc? The previous one's I was curious to hear why certain things were done but this is a misuse of the acceleration formula. The reason for this is because acceleration is equal to the change in velocity (vf - vi) divided by the time an object was moving. Here vi= 0 as the continent was still before the feat happened which leaves us with a= vf/t where the calc uses normal velocity in place of vf. The reason that's incorrect is because final velocity is the speed an object reaches after acceleration while normal velocity is the overall speed you go at.
• Here's an example of how velocity is different when acceleration is involved. Let's say someone travels north starting from rest for 4 seconds while accelerating at 2.5m/s^2. What is this person's final velocity and regular velocity? 2.5m/s^2 = (vf - 0) ÷ 4 here you multiply both sides of the equation by 4 to isolate (vf - 0) 10m/s = vf. You can fact check that by also setting up a time table because your speed increases by 2.5m/s every second so t0 = 0m/s, t1 = 2.5m/s, t2 = 5m/s, t3 = 7.5m/s and t4 = 10m/s [and t4 is vf] Also all the t values add up to get distance traveled since if you go x distance per second for 1 second you will have gone x distance. d = t1+t2+t3+t4 to get d = 25m v = d/t which is 25/4 = 6.25m/s which is slower than vf.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I think you should take that to the current thread that's open regarding the Earth calc used, because it's actually being upgraded as we speak.

Here's the thread. You can probably ask then and calc members directly.

 

[Snek]

I think you should take that to the current thread that's open regarding the Earth calc used, because it's actually being upgraded as we speak.

Here's the thread. You can probably ask then and calc members directly.

Alright thanks. Maybe I should delete my anti mega planet Bible if there's a thread about it elsewhere...

 

[Imaginym]

Dark Beginnings is meant to be a tie in to Sonic x Shadow Generations, which is further in the timeline after Shadow the Hedgehog (the game). Not to mention that Black Doom is alive once more and Shadow mentions in in game dialogue that he thought he died, so it's pretty concrete that the Shadow we see is the real deal.


Shadow the Hedgehog (the game) reveals that Professor Gerald couldn't fully complete Shadow until he came into contact with Black Doom and made a deal where Gerald gives Black Doom the Chaos Emerald's and, in exchange, Black Doom finishes Shadow by giving him Black Arms DNA. While not explicitly stated yet, since I'm sure the next episode will give us insight into Shadow's hallucinations, my current theory is that Black Doom is using Shadow's Black Arms DNA to psychologically toy with him with intense hallucinations of his past.

Ah, thank you very much for that clarification!

Also, that "Black Arms DNA" stuff could be interesting!

I mean, even if Shadow DID just regularly flashback to Maria, he stated it wasn't a normal nightmare.

 

[Executor_N0]

I'm a bit out of the loop here, can you give me a summarized version of the two worlds setting concept? Because maybe I don't understand what the original intention was, but I could've sworn that there was always ever going to be one world inhabited by the furry characters and humans

It's confusing, so I'll try to state all the info I remember. Back then in early Japanese Sonic lore there were two worlds, one is the human world and the other is the fairytale world, the fairytale world had its story told by a woman as storybooks. This was like, used in a few guidebooks and manga and although never addressed in the games themselves, that was accepted from the Japanese-side and IIRC one of the reasons the Sonic movie never happened back then was because Sonic Team requested that to be the official Sonic lore (In contrast, Ken Penders wanted to make an Archie-related movie so that his lore would take over the official lore due to becoming more well known).

Years later this lore was basically never used again, but people like Yuji Naka and Naoto Oshima both would answer in Q&A about the lore and there was a clear difference. For one, the Sonic world existed in another world different from the human world, it's just they overlapped a few times. For the other, Sonic existed in the same world as humans, but in hidden regions that were affected by nuclear tests and other stuff that mutated them into what they are today. I can't remember well who said what, but I think Naka was the one going for the same world and Oshima was the one going for different worlds.

Years later when Takashi Iizuka took over as leader of Sonic Team, sometimes he would answer fan questions and sometimes, he used the lore about the two being different worlds, but it was never addressed in the main material itself, so the only explanation about this stuff were in two places. One was Sonic Forces, as the designer explained he used the Two Worlds lore as the reason why he made an entire language for the animals as he understood they were like aliens from another world, so they had their own language. The other was Ian's bumblekast in which he would often comment the notes he got about the two worlds (Like explaining that hidden in caves there were huge golden rings that were like warp portals between the two planets. He also thought they were like worlds from different dimensions, but when he asked again he discovered they were just two planets in the same universe, but far apart). Still, Ian hated that lore just as much as many other fans due to being so unusual and nearly nothing in the games really stating that.

The truth is that the Two Worlds only existed as background detail and supposedly was the reason for why there a lot of strange stuff between a few games, the explanation was that there were more than a single world (So sometimes in the background of Sonic games there were more than a single moon). But that only existed in records, in fact the only reason why it first started to be talked about was in old Sega Forums when a mod started to discuss about the Japanese Sonic Bible and all the stuff from it, disliking what was there.

Eventually when the plan to unify the Sonic lore started, the whole idea of Two Worlds was ignored in favor of the current TailsTube explanation. It might have been fun for Ian to write about removing something he hated from canon.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

It might have been fun for Ian to write about removing something he hated from canon.

Occasional Ian Flynn W

 

[FaceOff81]

Occasional Ian Flynn W

What from Ian Flynn do you not like exactly?

 

[ShakeResounding]

Alright thanks. Maybe I should delete my anti mega planet Bible if there's a thread about it elsewhere...

No problem. You can reach out to @Gilad_Hyperstar in the thread and see if he'd be willing to change it to 1px, as well as having your other stuff addressed.

 

[MysticMania]

the planet also grows by the second

 

[Fireld]

the overpopulation crisis got solved for them

 

[Peptocoptr27]

What from Ian Flynn do you not like exactly?

A wall of text of reasons I don't really intend to get into. I don't hate the guy at all. In fact, I think he's a net positive for the series, but many of the good things he did come with an asterisk.

Anyway, here's my new CRT:

Galactic Gizoid, Master Core: ABIS + Eggman Shuffle Leftovers

3-C Ultimate Emerl: Ultimate Emerl currently scales to the value of the 4-A Final Egg Blaster (465.36463094381646829516462257912 ExaFoe), due to having absorbed its power. One thing we failed to account for, however, is that Emerl also had all 7 Chaos Emeralds on him at this time, which means...

vsbattles.com

Plenty more revisions on the way. No time to waste!

 

[FaceOff81]

A wall of text of reasons I don't really intend to get into. I don't hate the guy at all. In fact, I think he's a net positive for the series, but many of the good things he did come with an asterisk.

Does it have to do with character dynamics and interpretations of certain characters? Anything to do with his implied shipping of characters?

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Does it have to do with character dynamics and interpretations of certain characters? Anything to do with his implied shipping of characters?

The former, yes. He writes more like a fan than like a writer, if that makes sense. It was charming at first, but it's wearing out its welcome

 

[FaceOff81]

The former, yes. He writes more like a fan than like a writer, if that makes sense. It was charming at first, but it's wearing out its welcome

I see. For me, it’s what I listed above regarding character dynamics, how he writes/views certain characters, and implied shipping nonsense.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

For me, it was the classic 1991 Sonic the Hedgehog. It was my mom who introduced me to the game as well, and weirdly enough it was Marble Garden that I remembered the best lol.

 

[Theuser789]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

For me, it was the classic 1991 Sonic the Hedgehog. It was my mom who introduced me to the game as well, and weirdly enough it was Marble Garden that I remembered the best lol.

Sonic 1 for the Game Gear.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

For me, it was the classic 1991 Sonic the Hedgehog. It was my mom who introduced me to the game as well, and weirdly enough it was Marble Garden that I remembered the best lol.

Sonic 1 for the Master System. Got a video game console along with the game when i was 4. I absolutely sucked at it and kept getting lost in the 2nd stage but enjoyed the moments regardless. Next were Nazo Unleashed and Sonic AMVS/GMVS i kept stumbling onto when i had a tablet at the same age.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

For me, it was the classic 1991 Sonic the Hedgehog. It was my mom who introduced me to the game as well, and weirdly enough it was Marble Garden that I remembered the best lol.

Sonic 2. I played as Tails in coop mode with my older bro. I must have been a toddler, so I was reintroduced to the series with Sonic Adventure DX some years later.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

For me, it was the classic 1991 Sonic the Hedgehog. It was my mom who introduced me to the game as well, and weirdly enough it was Marble Garden that I remembered the best lol.

I think mine was Colors DS? There might have been an earlier experience before that, but my memory isn't great. I vaguely recall getting stuck on something or other in Asteroid Coaster for a long time and loving the Nega-Wisp Armor phase 2 theme (still like it, just probably not a favorite now)

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

Tbh I don’t remember my exact first experience with Sonic, but I do believe it was between Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (DS), Sonic Colours (DS), Sonic Generations (PS3), Sonic Heroes (PS2), Super Mario Bros. Z and Sonic SatAM. Tbh I imagine it was either Olympics or SMBZ, as I was definitely a Mario fan before a Sonic fan.

I’m just now realising from the other responses to this that I’m probably quite a bit younger than the rest of y’all

 

[MysticMania]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

For me, it was the classic 1991 Sonic the Hedgehog. It was my mom who introduced me to the game as well, and weirdly enough it was Marble Garden that I remembered the best lol.

Sonic The Hedgehog 2, through the 2005 plug-n-play Genesis collection.
Sonic Heroes was my second Sonic game.

 

[RedReaper616]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

For me, it was the classic 1991 Sonic the Hedgehog. It was my mom who introduced me to the game as well, and weirdly enough it was Marble Garden that I remembered the best lol.

Sonic 1 for the Genesis Collection on XBOX 360 yeaaaars ago. Then after playing Sonic 2, 3, and some of the other titles on that I got the latest game at the time (Sonic Generations), which really wowed me as a kid.

 

[Fireld]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

Hmmm, the X Anime was probably the 1st Sonic related media I've expirienced. Been quite awhile since the last time I watched it.

 

[koopa3144]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

Iirc the first Sonic game I played was Sonic 2 at a summer camp I used to go to several years back. However. the first Sonic game I got to fully play was Boom Rise of Lyric which I believe I asked for cause I wanted a Sonic game and it was the most recent one out at the time.

 

[Roun12]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

For me, it was the classic 1991 Sonic the Hedgehog. It was my mom who introduced me to the game as well, and weirdly enough it was Marble Garden that I remembered the best lol.

Unleashed for the PS2. I 100% that thing like, 3 times.

 

[Remus1998]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

For me, it was the classic 1991 Sonic the Hedgehog. It was my mom who introduced me to the game as well, and weirdly enough it was Marble Garden that I remembered the best lol.

Sonic and SEGA All-Stars Racing with Banjo and Kazooie

 

[Snek]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

For me, it was the classic 1991 Sonic the Hedgehog. It was my mom who introduced me to the game as well, and weirdly enough it was Marble Garden that I remembered the best lol.

It was Sonic Generations for me and I gotta say it was interesting to try and piece together Sonic's lore from the thing's in that game without any context. Also I remember one moment very well which was the perfect chaos intro where as soon as it showed up I said "What the hell is that thing!" from sheer surprise.

 

[Omegabronic]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

For me, it was the classic 1991 Sonic the Hedgehog. It was my mom who introduced me to the game as well, and weirdly enough it was Marble Garden that I remembered the best lol.

The demo of the Mobile version of Sonic Unleashed that was in my very first samsung cellphone that was smaller than the center of the palm of my hand

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

The demo of the Mobile version of Sonic Unleashed that was in my very first samsung cellphone that was smaller than the center of the palm of my hand

I'm so sorry that your first experience with Sonic was the mobile port of Sonic Unleashed.

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

My first initial exposure to Sonic was the Sonic Mega Gems Collection on the GameCube, but my first complete full on exposure was through Sonic Adventure 2 Battle. It's why, to this day, Sonic Adventure 2 has consistently remained in my top five favorite Sonic games.

 

[Omegabronic]

I'm so sorry that your first experience with Sonic was the mobile port of Sonic Unleashed.

why tho? it is PEAK.....mobile gaming

 

[Peptocoptr27]

why tho? it is PEAK.....mobile gaming

Sonic 4 episode 1 and 2 are peak mobile gaming tbh. They're not great when anylized outside of this context, but that still means something.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

For me, it was the classic 1991 Sonic the Hedgehog. It was my mom who introduced me to the game as well, and weirdly enough it was Marble Garden that I remembered the best lol.

Unsurprisingly it was Sonic Rush (my 2nd ever game my NDS behind New Super Mario Bros), saw that "highly recommended" gold sticker or something like that on the case and never looked back, I adjusted to the gameplay in no time and I was honestly surprised it was considered a difficult game (the power of naive youth) by my peers though me and my younger sibling would spend a hot minute discussing how mashing A+B mashed up our thumbs and console buttons lol! (The bossfights hadn't aged well tho, I'll admit. Especially the final boss with the BS spam electric triangle attack). But naturally I would spend more time than I'm willing to confirm jamming to the OST and ofc it introduced to my favourite character: Eggman N... >REDACTED< I mean Blaze the Cat, in all her burning glory from ANOTHER DIMENSION before she was rectonned to being from the future and being sacrificed for another character's development that eventually gets erased due timey wimey nonsense, so what was the point? (I will never be convinced this was "planned" from the beginning).

I guess it's interesting that I have a soft spot for the classics (S3&K being my no 1 Sonic game) yet my first Sonic game was the basis for the boost formula.

Technically my real first Sonic game was Sonic Flash, only truly real ones remember.

 

[Omegabronic]

before she was rectonned to being from the future and being sacrificed for another character's development that eventually gets erased due timey wimey nonsense, so what was the point? (I will never be convinced this was "planned" from the beginning).

if the 06 websites and documents are anything to go by......apparently she still is the same blaze from another dimension..........dunno how but hey, it is 06

 

[ShakeResounding]

Your answers were very awesome to read, it makes me think about the time I (and you all) were spending as youthful, wide-eyed children. Ah, good times.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Sonic Question Time: As dynamic as these questions tend to be, I'm asking a simple one this time. What was the first Sonic game you played that introduced you to the franchise? If not a game, what Sonic media brought you in?

My first experience with Sonic was watching Sonic X when I was like 6. I also played Ultimate Sonic (the Flash Sonic Advance 2 like game) a lot which introduced me to Sonic

My first actual Sonic game was either Sonic 2 or Sonic 3 & Knuckles back in 2012. I remained a Sonic fan ever since

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

Ian kinda sorta admitted that both Archie & Sega Sonic are universal if you cherry-pick enough,he didn't even mention Chaos Emeralds, either. Nature is healing.