Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[Imaginym]

During the final boss in Shadow the Hedgehog, Eggman explicitly confirms to Shadow that he is the real Shadow. He was just in a coma for awhile after he fell from space back down to Earth.

The Shadow Android plot point in Heroes was practically dropped after that game.

I understand this might be a bit redundant, are we certain Shadow the Hedgehog: Dark Beginnings is based on the Shadow the Hedgehog game, &/or that the protagonist is the real Shadow, though?

For what it's worth, an android Shadow might not sleep in a field, I guess.
In theory, maybe it had to reboot from falling from space or a power-down for maintenance or such. Not unheard of for fictional robots to have an equivalent to sleep.

But why would a genuine ultimate lifeform who isn't an android get technology-like video glitches in his visions from a biological space alien?

I just find it an odd detail, & the only explanation I've been told so far in this thread is "Nightmare weirdness".

Perhaps more episodes will make it clearer, but I wonder if there aren't other ways to tell apart Shadow & his Android counterparts again. If they're revisiting his backstory, might be neat to bring that up again.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I understand this might be a bit redundant, are we certain Shadow the Hedgehog: Dark Beginnings is based on the Shadow the Hedgehog game, &/or that the protagonist is the real Shadow, though?

Dark Beginnings is meant to be a tie in to Sonic x Shadow Generations, which is further in the timeline after Shadow the Hedgehog (the game). Not to mention that Black Doom is alive once more and Shadow mentions in in game dialogue that he thought he died, so it's pretty concrete that the Shadow we see is the real deal.

But why would a genuine ultimate lifeform who isn't an android get technology-like video glitches in his visions from a biological space alien?

Shadow the Hedgehog (the game) reveals that Professor Gerald couldn't fully complete Shadow until he came into contact with Black Doom and made a deal where Gerald gives Black Doom the Chaos Emerald's and, in exchange, Black Doom finishes Shadow by giving him Black Arms DNA. While not explicitly stated yet, since I'm sure the next episode will give us insight into Shadow's hallucinations, my current theory is that Black Doom is using Shadow's Black Arms DNA to psychologically toy with him with intense hallucinations of his past.

 

[Executor_N0]

Is The Ark not the moon? It looked huge in the view of the sky.

Fun trivia, for a time Sonic's world had more than one moon while they were working on the "two worlds" setting, but when the setting was retconned back to "one world", one of the Sonic Channel stories stated that the Ark is actually understood as a second moon in the night sky, basically retconning the two+ moons scenarios as being the Ark. So in a way, yes, it's a "moon".

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Fun trivia, for a time Sonic's world had more than one moon while they were working on the "two worlds" setting, but when the setting was retconned back to "one world", one of the Sonic Channel stories stated that the Ark is actually understood as a second moon in the night sky, basically retconning the two+ moons scenarios as being the Ark. So in a way, yes, it's a "moon".

I'm a bit out of the loop here, can you give me a summarized version of the two worlds setting concept? Because maybe I don't understand what the original intention was, but I could've sworn that there was always ever going to be one world inhabited by the furry characters and humans

 

[Snek]

This is random but with Earth being bigger than ours, in Sonic, would the moon also be equivalently larger?

Speaking of Sonic's Earth I have afew questions about the calc that I want clarification on before I go Gung ho and make a CRT. Anyways thanks for the input to anyone who responds.

• Why was half a pixel used for angel islands size?
• Why was the S3@K end accepted instead of the SA2 or unleashed calcs which are both from more recent games? Especially when S3@K was more limited in what it could artistically present. [Side note even in tailstube the unleashed map is shown when Tails is talking about the planet.]
• Why wasn't KE used when the calc had all the variables for it but didn't have a known acceleration rate for force? The reason I say that is because when it got to F = ma 9.81m/s^2 was used which is the gravitational pull of Earth which means that acceleration wasn't actually known. To be fair that's a good lowball to not inflate the calc but why use Work instead of KE when we have 100% known variables for KE but don't have every variable needed for Work?
• Why was regular velocity used in the acceleration formula for the lifting strength part of the calc? The previous one's I was curious to hear why certain things were done but this is a misuse of the acceleration formula. The reason for this is because acceleration is equal to the change in velocity (vf - vi) divided by the time an object was moving. Here vi= 0 as the continent was still before the feat happened which leaves us with a= vf/t where the calc uses normal velocity in place of vf. The reason that's incorrect is because final velocity is the speed an object reaches after acceleration while normal velocity is the overall speed you go at.
• Here's an example of how velocity is different when acceleration is involved. Let's say someone travels north starting from rest for 4 seconds while accelerating at 2.5m/s^2. What is this person's final velocity and regular velocity? 2.5m/s^2 = (vf - 0) ÷ 4 here you multiply both sides of the equation by 4 to isolate (vf - 0) 10m/s = vf. You can fact check that by also setting up a time table because your speed increases by 2.5m/s every second so t0 = 0m/s, t1 = 2.5m/s, t2 = 5m/s, t3 = 7.5m/s and t4 = 10m/s [and t4 is vf] Also all the t values add up to get distance traveled since if you go x distance per second for 1 second you will have gone x distance. d = t1+t2+t3+t4 to get d = 25m v = d/t which is 25/4 = 6.25m/s which is slower than vf.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I think you should take that to the current thread that's open regarding the Earth calc used, because it's actually being upgraded as we speak.

Here's the thread. You can probably ask then and calc members directly.

 

[Snek]

I think you should take that to the current thread that's open regarding the Earth calc used, because it's actually being upgraded as we speak.

Here's the thread. You can probably ask then and calc members directly.

Alright thanks. Maybe I should delete my anti mega planet Bible if there's a thread about it elsewhere...

 

[Imaginym]

Dark Beginnings is meant to be a tie in to Sonic x Shadow Generations, which is further in the timeline after Shadow the Hedgehog (the game). Not to mention that Black Doom is alive once more and Shadow mentions in in game dialogue that he thought he died, so it's pretty concrete that the Shadow we see is the real deal.


Shadow the Hedgehog (the game) reveals that Professor Gerald couldn't fully complete Shadow until he came into contact with Black Doom and made a deal where Gerald gives Black Doom the Chaos Emerald's and, in exchange, Black Doom finishes Shadow by giving him Black Arms DNA. While not explicitly stated yet, since I'm sure the next episode will give us insight into Shadow's hallucinations, my current theory is that Black Doom is using Shadow's Black Arms DNA to psychologically toy with him with intense hallucinations of his past.

Ah, thank you very much for that clarification!

Also, that "Black Arms DNA" stuff could be interesting!

I mean, even if Shadow DID just regularly flashback to Maria, he stated it wasn't a normal nightmare.

 

[Executor_N0]

I'm a bit out of the loop here, can you give me a summarized version of the two worlds setting concept? Because maybe I don't understand what the original intention was, but I could've sworn that there was always ever going to be one world inhabited by the furry characters and humans

It's confusing, so I'll try to state all the info I remember. Back then in early Japanese Sonic lore there were two worlds, one is the human world and the other is the fairytale world, the fairytale world had its story told by a woman as storybooks. This was like, used in a few guidebooks and manga and although never addressed in the games themselves, that was accepted from the Japanese-side and IIRC one of the reasons the Sonic movie never happened back then was because Sonic Team requested that to be the official Sonic lore (In contrast, Ken Penders wanted to make an Archie-related movie so that his lore would take over the official lore due to becoming more well known).

Years later this lore was basically never used again, but people like Yuji Naka and Naoto Oshima both would answer in Q&A about the lore and there was a clear difference. For one, the Sonic world existed in another world different from the human world, it's just they overlapped a few times. For the other, Sonic existed in the same world as humans, but in hidden regions that were affected by nuclear tests and other stuff that mutated them into what they are today. I can't remember well who said what, but I think Naka was the one going for the same world and Oshima was the one going for different worlds.

Years later when Takashi Iizuka took over as leader of Sonic Team, sometimes he would answer fan questions and sometimes, he used the lore about the two being different worlds, but it was never addressed in the main material itself, so the only explanation about this stuff were in two places. One was Sonic Forces, as the designer explained he used the Two Worlds lore as the reason why he made an entire language for the animals as he understood they were like aliens from another world, so they had their own language. The other was Ian's bumblekast in which he would often comment the notes he got about the two worlds (Like explaining that hidden in caves there were huge golden rings that were like warp portals between the two planets. He also thought they were like worlds from different dimensions, but when he asked again he discovered they were just two planets in the same universe, but far apart). Still, Ian hated that lore just as much as many other fans due to being so unusual and nearly nothing in the games really stating that.

The truth is that the Two Worlds only existed as background detail and supposedly was the reason for why there a lot of strange stuff between a few games, the explanation was that there were more than a single world (So sometimes in the background of Sonic games there were more than a single moon). But that only existed in records, in fact the only reason why it first started to be talked about was in old Sega Forums when a mod started to discuss about the Japanese Sonic Bible and all the stuff from it, disliking what was there.

Eventually when the plan to unify the Sonic lore started, the whole idea of Two Worlds was ignored in favor of the current TailsTube explanation. It might have been fun for Ian to write about removing something he hated from canon.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

It might have been fun for Ian to write about removing something he hated from canon.

Occasional Ian Flynn W

 

[FaceOff81]

Occasional Ian Flynn W

What from Ian Flynn do you not like exactly?