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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
ShakeResounding
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I think you can label it as "[[Martial Arts|Additional Martial Arts]] (Was trained by Espio in skills of ninjutsu) - Applies to Sonic, Amy, etc." Wouldn't be groundbreaking, but we're an index wiki above all
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I def think they were a little more fair to Bowser (like the Culex stuff being equated with Solaris was very sketchy), but overall I could tell they were trying to keep it unbiased and let Eggman get some dubs like intellect, so fair enough I suppose.
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I still can't i accidentally caused that to spread so far, its gonna be hilarious when in the next sonic ep or major community blog they have to address it lol (you do not understand how hard I tried to fight the G1 blog members to let me add Roblox stuff to it since I know a lot of them semi personally, but literally none of the Eggman supporters would budge cause of "roblox cringe")
I researched it as a joke since I was on the research team for Coded's Metal vs Bass (which isn't out yet but trust me it's gonna be cool af I'll post when it drops), I found all the hax but it was just recent that Nibroc came out and confirmed it as canon
ShrekAnakin
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So I wanna ask it here since I'm curious what we have to say.
Do you guys think both got roughly equal respect in the episode give or take?
Do you guys think both got roughly equal respect in the episode give or take?
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They didn't. They said Bowser held the stat trinity while giving him more lee-way than Eggman. Also, you were right about them completely ignoring Cyber Space.
As characters, more or less yes. To even compare this to Mario vs Sonic 2018 in that regard would be an insult to the episode.
As fighters, no.
Are you serious or not? I genuinely don't know.
Yeah, you really were. My god that sucks. I really had faith you would be at least somewhat wrong.
For the first time ever (I think), what they say in the black boxes might actually be even more wrong than what they say out loud.
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This episode was the textbook definition of why Death Battle will basically never work for me, well, back to the writing page.
The last manga chapter was very interesting. The art is as cool as always. It's a nice depiction of Shadow vs. Biolizard.
The last manga chapter was very interesting. The art is as cool as always. It's a nice depiction of Shadow vs. Biolizard.
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It seems pretty clear that Jet Black Hedgehog is not canon to the games, acts more like an original adaptation of the story of Shadow Generations so far.
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Jet Black Hedgehog??? LMAO, never seen someone actually call him that as a meme so it just took me aback
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Okay so no one uses Wisp abilities in Speed Sim, do I just give them the wisp abilities outright or a possibly since they're never shown
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That's the name of the manga, actually. The Jet Black Hedgehog: Shadow the Hedgehog is what it's referred to as.
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It's what I think, but Chris also said to wait until the manga is finished, so I wouldn't be surprised if somehow the end puts the manga into game canon by some convoluted reason like what happened with Sonic Prime
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.......that is litetally THE ONLY stat he got, Bowser had everything else sans the 2 ties
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I think it was one tie actually, but I see.
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......so it they did say Bowser basically stomped
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Ah, I see. I didn't know that was the name. Couldn't actually read the damn comic cuz of the whole pirating thing that happened.
Eden_Warlock99
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Ehh. The speed disparity wasn't that big and they did say that Eggman's high-ends might be stronger than Bowser's high-ends (Lost the category because the rest of Bowser's army was stronger than the rest of Eggman's army, for some reason they had Base Sonic characters at 7-C lol)
thetechmaster36
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Just watched the fight. PEAK animation, the music was fire as well. One of the best Death Battles animation and choreography-wise, no doubt.
I don't really care that much about the result - which, admittedly, I did see coming, but I'm not going to act as though they set Eggman up for failure when they noted a bunch of feats and whatnot that they probably otherwise wouldn't - so I won't complain that much about it. Overall, awesome episode.
Bowser jumping in front of the Death Egg's beam to shield his army was the best moment of the entire fight imo. I love that they went that route with Bowser's characterization, piggybacking off of what Dream Team implicitly established during the fight with Dreamy Bowser.
I don't really care that much about the result - which, admittedly, I did see coming, but I'm not going to act as though they set Eggman up for failure when they noted a bunch of feats and whatnot that they probably otherwise wouldn't - so I won't complain that much about it. Overall, awesome episode.
Bowser jumping in front of the Death Egg's beam to shield his army was the best moment of the entire fight imo. I love that they went that route with Bowser's characterization, piggybacking off of what Dream Team implicitly established during the fight with Dreamy Bowser.
ShrekAnakin
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That WAS one thing that bothered me. They had the base cast scale off a random laser cutscene, and not like…literally any of the countless better feats. (Such as Sonic defeating Ultimate Emerl).
ShakeResounding
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Yeah I figured Ultimate Emerl would be usable since Bowser was Uni but eh
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It wasn't but it's funny that they put mario as 6.6 times faster then super sonic and just didn't bring it up again.
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Especially since they upscaled Bowser from Yoshi's constellation feat. I'm still bummed out by how right User was...
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I guess they picked the Death Egg laser cuz they wanted a good direct feat for Eggman’s tech below the egg blaster, and the DE destroying planets was a mid tier cosmic feat that was outdone by final egg blaster.
Also weird how they upscale Bowser from Yoshi so much when Yoshi wins against Bowser in all those games.
Also weird how they upscale Bowser from Yoshi so much when Yoshi wins against Bowser in all those games.
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Pepto, this was completely intentional. Ultraguy has been arguing this for a year, at least. It's premeditated.
Here's a fact from someone who was right on everything about Bowser vs Eggman.
Game Sonic will never win a debatable match-up on Death Battle.
Death Battle is a business above all, they need views. The best way Death Battle can get views with controversy. Dragon Ball, Sonic, and other series where fans actually care about power level will never get clear cut wins in match-up, simply because they losing just brings more controversy.
Controversy means comment section is engaged, which means more views. Controversy means Debunk Videos, which means people talking about the battle, and then we get more views.
Look at their most popular videos. All controversies.
Sonic has a passionate fanbase, which means they will engage with the video more when the Sonic character loses. Death Battle needs this, as their views have been diminishing for years.
Maybe I am wrong. If so, this comment can be used to mock me, but in the end, Game Sonic will never win a Death Battle that is debatable.
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Which is funny, because many people do way more accurate research of both sides, and they do that FOR FREE, they don't gain money doing this.
LukeChaosBlobz
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If Speed Sim is canon... does this mean we can re-name the Gemerl page to Gemerl the Robot?
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To be fair, Bowser's stats could also be argued as way higher or lower than this site puts him at, I've seen people go for 5 or 6-D Mario, so them choosing this outcome isn't unreasonable. Especially when from a casual perspective you can look at Dream Depot vs Maginaryworld as very similar conceptually and just conclude them as equal for simplicity, not many would want to go into the weeds analyzing the exact differences. Same with Mario having an infinite cosmology, not sure where it came from but maybe they just took "infinite size space" and equated it to "infinite amounts of space times", which is something a casual would understand.
Do I agree, no, but I don't think it was premeditated.
Do I agree, no, but I don't think it was premeditated.
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@JJSliderman Yo J, since you're a Mario scaler, I had a question for you.
Do you mind giving me a TLDR of the known Immeasurable speed arguments in the Mario franchise? The only thing I can legit come up with is potentially scaling Pure Hearts user to the speed at which it would've taken The Void to destroy the Mario cosmology, but I imagine that there's more arguments outside of that.
Do you mind giving me a TLDR of the known Immeasurable speed arguments in the Mario franchise? The only thing I can legit come up with is potentially scaling Pure Hearts user to the speed at which it would've taken The Void to destroy the Mario cosmology, but I imagine that there's more arguments outside of that.
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The main ones I can think of are:
Magic Window showing Mario move fast enough to be in 2-3 places at once.
Cutout space transcending time and the Void being able to affect it due to being able to destroy all dimensions
Green Comet being able to physically move across the Galaxy 2 worlds and Lubba stating they had to travel through space and time to cross worlds.
Culex moving from the 2nd to the 3rd dimension with physical movement and dimensions in Mario being separated by space time (this is kind of a meme but eh)
And I guess all the feats involving crossing or destroying infinite space, like Bowser corrupting every dream in infinite dream depot, comparing the size of Mario's universe to world 4 to say it's infinite size and using Rosalina traveling to the center of the universe/traveling to the trial galaxies at the edge of the universe.
Magic Window showing Mario move fast enough to be in 2-3 places at once.
Cutout space transcending time and the Void being able to affect it due to being able to destroy all dimensions
Green Comet being able to physically move across the Galaxy 2 worlds and Lubba stating they had to travel through space and time to cross worlds.
Culex moving from the 2nd to the 3rd dimension with physical movement and dimensions in Mario being separated by space time (this is kind of a meme but eh)
And I guess all the feats involving crossing or destroying infinite space, like Bowser corrupting every dream in infinite dream depot, comparing the size of Mario's universe to world 4 to say it's infinite size and using Rosalina traveling to the center of the universe/traveling to the trial galaxies at the edge of the universe.
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And they aren't successful like Death Battle. Like it or hate them, their business model is extremely successful and has been working for a decade.
By premeditated, I mean they had Bowser winning before research was even made, which is true. Ultraguy had been arguing for a Bowser win before research began and the episode was 1 to 1 with his reasoning.
Eden_Warlock99
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I believe they also had Bardock winning before the research for his match, and you know how that went.
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That's what pisses me off.
****, man... Considering how similar the reasoning is, you might be right.
This is where I have some disagreements. Godzilla vs Gamera is in thier top 5 most popular and isn't at all controversial. Batman vs Spider-Man is controversial, but just because if Batman wankers who don't understand the concept of him not having prep time despite it being laid out in the episode. Mario also has a passionate fanbase, and more people were voting for Bowser. His loss would have brought potentially even more controversy, especially if they killed his son too. Dragon Ball got several victories in debatable matchups (plenty I think were undeserved, even), and Archie Sonic did get ONE. Archie Silver is the only thing that makes me still cling to a semblance of hope when it comes to Sonic in Death Battle... but now that all of their most important matchups are behind them, it no longer matters.
Except the arguments that get Mario to 5D/6D are the same ones that get Sonic to 7D/8D, and the arguments for it to scale to Mario's base are the same as the ones for it to scale to Sonic's base.
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Source?
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I see, thanks for answering. Bowser corrupting every dream in the Dream Depot, and the stuff from Super Mario Galaxy 2 seem pretty explicit from my perspective, but I'm not as well versed with Mario as I am Sonic so I could be wrong.
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Bowser never actually corrupted all the dreams, he planned to but only managed to get to one before he was stopped.
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The lack of Otherworld Comedy usage was by far my most disliked point and the main reason I'll never get to see Death Battle as a proper representation of the characters. When you do a crossover between characters, your understanding of a character is tested, as you'll have to balance out their characteristics and figure out what "truly represents" that character, even when outside the main world/canon.
And funny enough, that was the main theme of Otherworld Comedy, no matter the universe, the Sonic characters will always be themselves no matter if you try to change their world and their memories (And Eggman learning this lesson). As a story, it's one I see as very important to understand the world of Sonic, and in many ways, it rescues many of the old themes from the very first Sonic story concepts.
So every time Death Battle ignores the most important aspects of something, even when "it's not well known", just to use "what is mostly known", that is just more reason for me to not care about them. Of course, that is just me, I'm sure most of the public would never think like this (After all, most of them don't know about those points, it's why I hope they never address Digimon again as I don't think they would portray the themes of the series on good faith, quite funny considering how much of the love for Superman vs Goku 3 was the portrayal of the characters).
And funny enough, that was the main theme of Otherworld Comedy, no matter the universe, the Sonic characters will always be themselves no matter if you try to change their world and their memories (And Eggman learning this lesson). As a story, it's one I see as very important to understand the world of Sonic, and in many ways, it rescues many of the old themes from the very first Sonic story concepts.
So every time Death Battle ignores the most important aspects of something, even when "it's not well known", just to use "what is mostly known", that is just more reason for me to not care about them. Of course, that is just me, I'm sure most of the public would never think like this (After all, most of them don't know about those points, it's why I hope they never address Digimon again as I don't think they would portray the themes of the series on good faith, quite funny considering how much of the love for Superman vs Goku 3 was the portrayal of the characters).
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They did mention that they did consider Lightman, but the story came out after the DB has pretty much wrapped up the script, and also black boxed that it has less range than Giga wonder and has prep time of a month, so it wouldn’t be useful.
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