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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

The omnipotent regular prison cell has struck once again and this time it's victims are team chaotix. And the funniest part is that in the most recent idw comic the cell bar's were drawn in a way that made it look like Charmy could just squeeze through if he wanted to which makes this extra hilarious.

It's time to downgrade the verse to 9B sadly the idw anti feats are too strong. 😢
 
Snek said:
The omnipotent regular prison cell has struck once again and this time it's victims are team chaotix. And the funniest part is that in the most recent idw comic the cell bar's were drawn in a way that made it look like Charmy could just squeeze through if he wanted to which makes this extra hilarious.

It's time to downgrade the verse to 9B sadly the idw anti feats are too strong. 😢
Click to expand...
Mecha Sonic coming back years later with no ways of becoming stronger and somehow being a threat to current cast
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
If anything he should’ve been weaker than his original self
Click to expand...
Yeah, deep down I really don't care about Gamenic powerscaling, because it leads to absurdities like an autistic basically civilian lemur being more powerful than a war machine with 4000 years of combat experience ingrained into it.
 
Snek said:
The omnipotent regular prison cell has struck once again and this time it's victims are team chaotix. And the funniest part is that in the most recent idw comic the cell bar's were drawn in a way that made it look like Charmy could just squeeze through if he wanted to which makes this extra hilarious.

It's time to downgrade the verse to 9B sadly the idw anti feats are too strong. 😢
Click to expand...
Vector straight up busts down a metal door in Heroes, lol
 
SJG13673 said:
Yeah, deep down I really don't care about Gamenic powerscaling, because it leads to absurdities like an autistic basically civilian lemur being more powerful than a war machine with 4000 years of combat experience ingrained into it.
Click to expand...
To be fair random characters just showing up and being weirdly strong isn't new to the series. For example Tails just kinda showed up in sonic 2 and could spin his tails to keep up with Sonic. Cream is a random six year old with no known combat experience and she can destroy eggman mechs that other civilians need wispons to handle. Jackle squad mercenaries can destroy egg pawns in single strikes and they were strong enough for eggman to recruit them. And Rouge could almost fight knuckles to a standstill in SA2.

Etc Etc however I do agree that no random citizen in sonics world should be anything compared to emeral specifically but they just are for some weird reason. I considered putting charmy on that list of weirdly strong civilians but then again I wouldn't be surprised if Espio trained charmy before taking him on life threatening adventures.
 
Snek said:
To be fair random characters just showing up and being weirdly strong isn't new to the series. For example Tails just kinda showed up in sonic 2 and could spin his tails to keep up with Sonic. Cream is a random six year old with no known combat experience and she can destroy eggman mechs that other civilians need wispons to handle. Jackle squad mercenaries can destroy egg pawns in single strikes and they were strong enough for eggman to recruit them. And Rouge could almost fight knuckles to a standstill in SA2.

Etc Etc however I do agree that no random citizen in sonics world should be anything compared to emeral specifically but they just are for some weird reason. I considered putting charmy on that list of weirdly strong civilians but then again I wouldn't be surprised if Espio trained charmy before taking him on life threatening adventures.
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I can give Tails and Rouge some slack, as Rouge does have a reputation in universe and Tails is a special boy due to a mutation, and I do prefer Cream as a more of a civilian like she is in Archie and IDW with Cheese being the powerhouse for fun.
The Avatar from forces tho is the worst example, literally a nobody that single handedly turned the tides of war in favor of Team Sonic (Not to mention entire world instantly falling apart as soon as Sonic got defeated)
 
SJG13673 said:
I can give Tails and Rouge some slack, as Rouge does have a reputation in universe and Tails is a special boy due to a mutation, and I do prefer Cream as a more of a civilian like she is in Archie and IDW with Cheese being the powerhouse for fun.
Click to expand...
Ya fair enough I do agree with that.
SJG13673 said:
The Avatar from forces tho is the worst example, literally a nobody that single handedly turned the tides of war in favor of Team Sonic (Not to mention entire world instantly falling apart as soon as Sonic got defeated)
Click to expand...
You know this is a tangent but I would have loved it if forces was [well written] made into two campaigns from both the avatars and sonics perspective [without classic sonic]. The avatar could have something of a souls like/rpg style were you gradually defeat stronger and stronger eggman mechs and level up with power rings [make those canon story elements sega] power cores, wisps and eventually a prototype phantom ruby which would explain how the avatar reaches sonics level.

Unfortunately though we live in a strange timeline and the avatar is just randomly op for some some reason lol.
 
MysticMania said:
I would also like if Forces was well written, to be honest.
Click to expand...
Same. Also since I'm hearing crickets which implies I said something controversial so I should specify why I said souls-like before rpg... I just didn't want anyone to think I wanted sonic chronicals 2 lol. Also I don't necessarily want a game that copies every aspect from a souls game just a few things like threatening enemies, a leveling system, weapon and build variety, and npcs to talk to.

That's just me though so I declare sonic Question Time. If sonic forces was was remade from the ground up what would you want the avatars play style and story to be like and why?
 
Honestly I think the Wispons and grapples are perfect. I feel as if the issue is that they were focused on platforming instead of branching out into a more combat based system (that they’ve started to try in Forces). I think the best answer would be having the Avatar play like Joker does in Persona 5 Strikers. On field real time combat, and then to obviously not deviate too much from that you could have platforming sections in between those arenas ala GoW and DMC.

Just make the Wispons do more with a given Wisp for combat options (or introduce new ones) and focus grapples for aerial combat and movement and you’ve got it made.

Story wise, I actually like the idea of a character becoming an ascended extra. So I think that’s fine, but they should focus less on a Captain America (“immediately joins Resistance and turns tide”) and think more Spider-Man (“Start small, neighborhood/city hero, slowly grow into a capable fighter that spans multiple regions”) before joining the Resistance. I also think it’d help if (Modern) Sonic was kept away until later. The game takes place over the invasion, and the Rookie meets (reads: gets saved on their journey/incidentally shares missions with) the various members of the main Sonic cast, building bonds and gaining trust. You feel as if you’re actively participating as well earning the faith of Sonic and co. as you progress through the title. A much more interactive experience.

You also learn about Sonic and who he is as a person through Classic Sonic. The ideas/bedrock behind his Modern philosophy. Why does Sonic value freedom so much? Well, when he was younger and fighting Robotnik, he saw the Egghead steal it from others and that caused an awful feeling to grow inside him, causing him to lash out initially against the Doctor before growing into heroism. Why does Sonic value friendship and bonds? Because it was through that he got his little brother. Things like that. The idolization of Sonic from the Rookie is both questioned but also reinforced because you’re seeing behind the curtain/the real person behind the worldwide personality. Classic Sonic also does the weight lifting in terms of traditional platforming for the early bit of the title.

Then eventually you join the Resistance after you’ve met all or most the team, and THEN you free Modern Sonic.

The last few stages are the tried and true blue Boost Stages, where you’ve earned the moving WMD that is Sonic the Hedgehog. You’re utterly obliterating the competition across a few stages, and Sonic through that grows a friendship with you as he uses that time to get updates on the war he was benched on. Along the way you’re reminded of your accomplishments/the others vouch for you, and Sonic—In Sonic fashion—“Any friend of my friends is a friend of mine!” and “I knew you seemed familiar. I trusted you then, so I’ll trust you now!” (Because Forces is also a time travel story).

Then together you and the Sonics defeat Eggman after his inevitable betrayal of Infinite, because there was no friendship between them.

Bing bang boom, done. Add in Episode Shadow to explain Infinite, perhaps add more explicit tragedy—Shadow killed team Jackal Squad, after all, so more weight should be given to that. It also explains Infinite’s loss in the value of friendship. Episode Metal gets added to tease the IDW comic—And you’re done.

You keep the same themes, backstory, and general plot beats, but remixed into a far more satisfying package that also branches Sonic Team out and tests the fans reception to more arena based combat. (Like Frontiers did). Then you have Frontiers expand off that.
 
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I've also heard of Central City being the setting of City Escape before, so I am curious in regards to the behind-the-scenes details.
 
Sparkive said:
To be fair, it's not the only reason to believe that TMoStH is not canon, it's still not a solid case, but it's there.

Draft/Info of a CTR that I had planned but that I didn't do because the Runners one is still pending and I realized that Barry appeared in a comic and I don't have free time and it wasn't really worth it and...
Some time ago these CTRs passed:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/sonic-additions-large-starky-galaxy-style.153225/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/espio-intelligence-upgrade.154820/

What's wrong with it? Nothing really, but I want to discuss the canonicity of the game “The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog”

1 What are the arguments for the game being canon?
  • It is a Sonic game produced by Sega
  • It references previous games
  • Common sense
2 Why do I doubt its canon?

A headcanon is anything that is yet to be confirmed or deconfirmed, It could be canon in the future, but without official confirmation, considering it canon is literally just a headcanon.

Counterarguments

-They mention locations from previous games, so it's canon?

…It does not work like this
If in my Total Drama fanfic (it exists, if for some strange reason you want to read it, ask about it, but it is in Spanish) I recognize past events, is my fanfic canon? No
It's the other way around, another game should take into account the existence of TMoStH, the only thing it indicates now is that it is an official Sonic product.
Don't even dare mention that it's a fanfic, that's not the point of my argument.

-Everything is canon
Let's remember that it was said based on a crossover image of PuyoPuyoTetris 2
The phrase is not “everything that is made of sonic is canon”, it was a joke, and if you want to look for a meaning, it would be “Don't worry, what you think is canon is canon”
...
..
.
It's not really certain that it is not canon, but there are reasons to doubt that it is, and it is safer to leave it in a corner waiting for its canonicity to be proven, than to say that it automatically is.
(Now, if there are references or something that confirms the canonicity of the game in the comics, please let me know, I'm very lost on that side [I don't think a cameo is enough, remember that Stick is currently canon, but we do not take Sonic Boom within it for obvious reasons, and let's not forget that both Sally Acorn and Bunnie D'Coolette appear in "Sonic Forces: Looming Shadow" as a cameo, but they are obviously not canonical characters, and Amy's car from All Star Transformers appears in an IDW comic but the game is not considered canon)

Also remember that the canon changes constantly:
  • Sonic Sonic Labyrinth and Sonic Spinball were initially non-canon, but they changed it
  • Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was changed from the classic era to the modern era and there are a lot of implications that this was what happened after Sonic CD (putting CD at the end of all 4 games), but actually CD was put before Sonic 2, causing it to be separated by Sonic 2, 3, and Mania (and technically all the other classic games that were canonized, but here it's put before a lot of classic stuff
...

Also, I'm pretty sure the game said that Sonic saved the train conductor a number of years ago when Sonic shouldn't have been alive yet, but I don't remember.
Click to expand...
when the chars appear in IDW, i think most of the points here become moot tbh

on another note, i guess we can try and pick up where IDW is in relation to the games by seeing where the MoSth chars start appearing in IDW
 
Lord_Farquaad69420 said:
It’s that and the fact that some of the links don’t work, also it’s kinda confusing which form is which sometimes since I originally thought the 1-C stuff was for super Neo metal sonic cause the link was dead, until I remembered eggman quote in heroes which was used for metal overlord

Honestly metal and Neo metal should have seperate pages ngl similar to how sonic is split between adventure and modern
Click to expand...
also in the plans
 
Omegabronic said:
when the chars appear in IDW, i think most of the points here become moot tbh

on another note, i guess we can try and pick up where IDW is in relation to the games by seeing where the MoSth chars start appearing in IDW
Click to expand...
"Murder of Sonic" happens post-frontiers, and comics are not yet allowed to move into that era... We're still pre-frontiers.
 
McFriesGuy075 said:
Despite being in Brazil, twitter previews are still visible... hm...
Click to expand...
Omegabronic said:
i can see twitter, I CAN'T SEE 😫
Click to expand...
IMG-20240920-002913.jpg

IMG-20240920-003519.jpg

Can you see these?
 
Fireld said:
IMG-20240920-002913.jpg

IMG-20240920-003519.jpg

Can you see these?
Click to expand...
I already saw the former, i don't think i've seen the latter though...

I found some Sonic X stuff while watching a few episodes

Rings:

Heat Manipulation - Absorbing a Ring allowed Sonic to heat up and unfreeze himself from the temperature of the stratosphere;
In the English dub Tails mentions the temperature is "50-below", though im not sure wether he meant -50°F (-45.5556°C) or 50°F (10°C), since the latter isn't exactly a temperature where you'd be freezing solid, especially not that fast.
In some other dubs Tails mentions the stratosphere's temperature is -15°C, which is what a quick google search also tells you about the top of the stratosphere's temperature.
I can't find what the original Japanese episode had to say though.

Higher speed: Shadow was unable to react to Sonic's spin attack when he absorbed a ring

Dark Sonic:
Aura (Overwhelming) - The artificial Chaos Emeralds were causing Sonic to feel uneasy

Chaos Emeralds:
Aura (Explosive) - Sonic flashed brightly before beginning his attack on Gerra-Hard

Im sure there could be more stuff but i think i lost myself in the order of the episodes and not really in the mood to check more of them
 
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