Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[Ghengiroo115]

I still can’t get over how 6-D base modern cast is possibly gonna be real. I doubt it’ll actually happen especially since I think you can argue that Metal Overlord is only above what Eggman had seen of the Emeralds at that point (although the rest of the context does heavily point towards it being the actual full power), but the fact that the Phantom Ruby and related parties have superiority statements that also support it is pretty nutty. Also apparently Perfect Chaos had the “full power” of the Emeralds, which if that statement comes from a reputable enough source (“cough” Tikal “cough”) is another pointer towards 1-C base modern cast. There might also be something else I’m missing as well.

Sonic powerscaling is so funny, like why can you genuinely argue that someone like Tangle can solo the entire final boss catalogue (barring the literal most recent one)?

 

[CloverDragon03]

I still can’t get over how 6-D base modern cast is possibly gonna be real. I doubt it’ll actually happen especially since I think you can argue that Metal Overlord is only above what Eggman had seen of the Emeralds at that point (although the rest of the context does heavily point towards it being the actual full power), but the fact that the Phantom Ruby and related parties have superiority statements that also support it is pretty nutty. Also apparently Perfect Chaos had the “full power” of the Emeralds, which if that statement comes from a reputable enough source (“cough” Tikal “cough”) is another pointer towards 1-C base modern cast. There might also be something else I’m missing as well.

Sonic powerscaling is so funny, like why can you genuinely argue that someone like Tangle can solo the entire final boss catalogue (barring the literal most recent one)?

Metal Overlord will probably be downgraded to Low 2-C tbh

 

[Heremus]

I still can’t get over how 6-D base modern cast is possibly gonna be real. I doubt it’ll actually happen especially since I think you can argue that Metal Overlord is only above what Eggman had seen of the Emeralds at that point (although the rest of the context does heavily point towards it being the actual full power), but the fact that the Phantom Ruby and related parties have superiority statements that also support it is pretty nutty. Also apparently Perfect Chaos had the “full power” of the Emeralds, which if that statement comes from a reputable enough source (“cough” Tikal “cough”) is another pointer towards 1-C base modern cast. There might also be something else I’m missing as well.

Sonic powerscaling is so funny, like why can you genuinely argue that someone like Tangle can solo the entire final boss catalogue (barring the literal most recent one)?

Feels like moreso only for particular characters more than anything, mostly playable characters already with super forms and massive power increases. So Sonic and Shadow may be top tiers in that regard.

So does this mean that Shadow now scales to Sonic's immeasurable speeds in base?

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Metal Overlord will probably be downgraded to Low 2-C tbh

Realistically yeah he probably will, but it would be funny if we managed to get an upgrade out of it instead. There’s a scary amount of stuff to support it, even some stuff used for Low 2-C can potentially be used to support 6-D.

Feels like moreso only for particular characters more than anything, mostly playable characters already with super forms and massive power increases, so Knuckles, Tails, Silver, Blaze, etc. Any characters that don't tap into such wouldn't get the 1-C base capability.

I think every modern character would become 6-D, since everyone’s already Low 2-C and they all scale to a version of Sonic immensely above his Generations self. The consequences of being a multimedia franchise where everyone has some level of relevancy.

So does this mean that Shadow now scales to Sonic's immeasurable speeds in base?

Oh dang, I didn’t even think about this making characters Immeasurable. That might complicate things. I mean I feel like them already being Infinite should mean that Immeasurable wouldn’t be too hard to justify (especially since Sonic technically has his own Immeasurable feat), however I’m not the best with all these higher end mechanics so maybe there’s something I’m missing.

 

[Alexander]

Can we just stop downgrading everything for the sake of it?
We have no reason to make this downgrades beyond not wanting to make the characters at the same level of a super form (at least a previous super form power)

 

[Heremus]

Realistically yeah he probably will, but it would be funny if we managed to get an upgrade out of it instead. There’s a scary amount of stuff to support it, even some stuff used for Low 2-C can potentially be used to support 6-D.


I think every modern character would become 6-D, since everyone’s already Low 2-C and they all scale to a version of Sonic immensely above his Generations self. The consequences of being a multimedia franchise where everyone has some level of relevancy.


Oh dang, I didn’t even think about this making characters Immeasurable. That might complicate things. I mean I feel like them already being Infinite should mean that Immeasurable wouldn’t be too hard to justify (especially since Sonic technically has his own Immeasurable feat), however I’m not the best with all these higher end mechanics so maybe there’s something I’m missing.

Again, only Shadow and Sonic would likely be the examples of immeasurable speed due to their feats pertaining to Generation and erased time. I still feel like the 1-C tiering wouldn't scale for other characters for the sake of convenience. Maybe at most "Possibly 1-C" for Shadow and Sonic by feats in Generations until other characters perform similar feats of fighting end-game bosses in base form.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Sonic powerscaling is so funny, like why can you genuinely argue that someone like Tangle can solo the entire final boss catalogue (barring the literal most recent one)?

No base character can possibly beat or even hurt Solaris due to his physiology.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

No base character can possibly beat or even hurt Solaris due to his physiology.

How did I forget about Solaris?

Again, only Shadow and Sonic would likely be the examples of immeasurable speed due to their feats pertaining to Generation and erased time. I still feel like the 1-C tiering wouldn't scale for other characters for the sake of convenience. Maybe at most "Possibly 1-C" for Shadow and Sonic by feats in Generations until other characters perform similar feats of fighting end-game bosses in base form.

I don’t think it would work that way. If Sonic and Shadow’s ratings change from this (big if, it’s a really wacky and goofy proposal no matter how much evidence supports it) then everyone’s ratings would change. That’s just how it always works. Unless I’m misunderstanding you?

 

[Heremus]

I don’t think it would work that way. If Sonic and Shadow’s ratings change from this (big if, it’s a really wacky and goofy proposal no matter how much evidence supports it) then everyone’s ratings would change. That’s just how it always works. Unless I’m misunderstanding you?

Eh. If Shadow just gets Immeasurable speed and doesn't get 1-C, I'd probably be happy. We're screwed if Solaris somehow gets a boss fight and its base form again, though. If it's Mephiles, good.

 

[JJSliderman]

Solaris would 100% be the boss if there was some kind of Silver Generations

 

[RedReaper616]

I mean, I always kind of figured Sonic, Metal, Shadow, and Silver all ranged into immeasurable (or at least had a shared immeasurable speed outlier) because they all collectively were unaffected by White Space and were comparable to Sonic in speed (which is specifically how Sonic restores space-time in Generations). It really felt like a self explanatory thing.

Though, I suppose with Shadow now also fixing White Space with his own speed, it makes it even more blatant.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Can we just stop downgrading everything for the sake of it?
We have no reason to make this downgrades beyond not wanting to make the characters at the same level of a super form (at least a previous super form power)

We do though. The statements about Metal Overlord are likely only from the limited PoV of Eggman based on what he's seen the Chaos Emeralds capable of

 

[Alexander]

We do though. The statements about Metal Overlord are likely only from the limited PoV of Eggman based on what he's seen the Chaos Emeralds capable of

that argument can be used for almost all bosses.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Who is smarter than Eggman appart from tails in this series?

That's not my point. My point is that the Chaos Emeralds never showed any Low 1-C scaling by that point. So why would Eggman factor in the likes of Solaris when saying he doubts even the Chaos Emeralds would be enough, even though nothing like that has appeared yet?

 

[Alexander]

That's not my point. My point is that the Chaos Emeralds never showed any Low 1-C scaling by that point. So why would Eggman factor in the likes of Solaris when saying he doubts even the Chaos Emeralds would be enough, even though nothing like that has appeared yet?

that still does not make the downgrade better, also are we assuming the chaos emeralds get stronger?or the power varies?

 

[CloverDragon03]

that still does not make the downgrade better, also are we assuming the chaos emeralds get stronger?or the power varies?

The power does vary, yes. That's explicitly stated with the Chaos Emeralds

 

[Alexander]

The power does vary, yes. That's explicitly stated with the Chaos Emeralds

where?at best is that you can enhance yourself if you use little bit of its power, but when you turn Super, you are using the full power (at least the full power that can be known naturally and not if you are a echidna like Knuckles)

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

where?at best is that you can enhance yourself if you use little bit of its power, but when you turn Super, you are using the full power (at least the full power that can be known naturally and not if you are a echidna like Knuckles)

I think Clover is referring to this.

Edit: I'll just leave the link behind here

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also this has been accepted for the longest time lmao

 

[Alexander]

Also this has been accepted for the longest time lmao

Yeah but now we have more proof that the great of the characters can surpass a super form, and there is hard reasons for us to downgrade Metal overlord now

 

[CloverDragon03]

No...?

This doesn't magically change the variable nature of the power of the Chaos Emeralds

 

[Alexander]

No...?

This doesn't magically change the variable nature of the power of the Chaos Emeralds

Then what do we do?wait until the Game release to see more?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Then what do we do?wait until the Game release to see more?

If Base Shadow is fighting on par with Metal Overlord, then we downgrade him to Low 2-C, because there was already potential reason to do so and now we're being given even more of a reason

 

[Snek]

I'm still hoping overlord gets an at least Low 2-C possibly far higher rating for that reason ngl.

 

[JJSliderman]

Why not just upgrade base characters to 1-C…

 

[Alexander]

Why not just upgrade base characters to 1-C…

Same question

 

[Alexander]

If Base Shadow is fighting on par with Metal Overlord, then we downgrade him to Low 2-C, because there was already potential reason to do so and now we're being given even more of a reason

Not even FSL makes a downgrade to that level

 

[CloverDragon03]

Why not just upgrade base characters to 1-C…

Do I really need to answer that...?

Put simply, 1-C Base Sonic is turbo wank

Not even FSL makes a downgrade to that level

Idk who that is and I don't care if you think this is the worst downgrade to ever exist

 

[Theuser789]

that argument can be used for almost all bosses.

The other bosses actually have 1-C feats themselves.

 

[Alexander]

Do I really need to answer that...?

Put simply, 1-C Base Sonic is turbo wank

No, it is not, characters grow in power, is not wank.

Idk who that is and I don't care if you think this is the worst downgrade to ever exist

Fire Force had the worst downgrade

 

[Alexander]

The other bosses actually have 1-C feats themselves.

Which just makes the chaos emeralds that powerful... no problem.
Which one by the way?

 

[RanHover60]

Look I love Sonic, but the notion that he, IN BASE FORM, is capable of punching in 6D is actually outrageous along with him being on the same tier as his super form, which is treated as an unfathomably higher power level. Low 2c has way more reliable feats other than just scaling to boss A or boss B who are 1C lol.

 

[Alexander]

Look I love Sonic, but the notion that he, IN BASE FORM, is capable of punching in 6D is actually outrageous along with him being on the same tier as his super form, which is treated as an unfathomably higher power level. Low 2c has way more reliable feats other than just scaling to boss A or boss B who are 1C lol.

It is already outrageous that Classic Sonic can restore time like his future self.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Look I love Sonic, but the notion that he, IN BASE FORM, is capable of punching in 6D is actually outrageous along with him being on the same tier as his super form, which is treated as an unfathomably higher power level. Low 2c has way more reliable feats other than just scaling to boss A or boss B who are 1C lol.

Base cast are getting 2-C (6 universes) soon

 

[RanHover60]

Base cast are getting 2-C (6 universes) soon

The universe upgrade means a lot of the low2c feats will be 2c now iirc so that’s fine.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

So is there a timeline that explains the canonical time between Sonic Rush and Shadow the Hedgehog? Because Devil Doom is "At Least Low 2-C" whilst the Egg Salamander is "At Most 2-C".

You completely misunderstood where thise ratings came from, but tbf, they are confusing

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

So is there a timeline that explains the canonical time between Sonic Rush and Shadow the Hedgehog? Because Devil Doom is "At Least Low 2-C" whilst the Egg Salamander is "At Most 2-C".

Here's a timeline blog

 

[Heremus]

You completely misunderstood where thise ratings came from, but tbf, they are confusing

Yeah, that was my bad.

 

[Snek]

Ok I have a question that plays into narrative stuff and lore that I'd like you to hear me our for.

The question is why does metal overlord need to be 1-C with what the story has presented and if he wasn't 1-C would the story be different. For the first question I think the awnser is no after all he never threatens any 1-C structure he dosent have any lore comparing him to the strongest beings sonic has fought and the statements that call him invincible or unbeatable from eggman and tails were debunked by the simple fact that he lost.

As for the second question I believe that metal overlord could be low 2-C and the story would still be consistent. After all by that point eggman hasn't created anything beyond low 2-C and the chaos emeralds haven't shown beyond low 2-C feats by that point either so eggmans doubts don't prove overlord is that strong.

 

[Alexander]

Ok I have a question that plays into narrative stuff and lore that I'd like you to hear me our for.

The question is why does metal overlord need to be 1-C with what the story has presented and if he wasn't 1-C would the story be different. For the first question I think the awnser is no after all he never threatens any 1-C structure he dosent have any lore comparing him to the strongest beings sonic has fought and the statements that call him invincible or unbeatable from eggman and tails were debunked by the simple fact that he lost.

The super form are called invincible too

As for the second question I believe that metal overlord could be low 2-C and the story would still be consistent. After all by that point eggman hasn't created anything beyond low 2-C and the chaos emeralds haven't shown beyond low 2-C feats by that point either so eggmans doubts don't prove overlord is that strong.

Neither the above one