Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[Snek]

Ok I have a question that plays into narrative stuff and lore that I'd like you to hear me our for.

The question is why does metal overlord need to be 1-C with what the story has presented and if he wasn't 1-C would the story be different. For the first question I think the awnser is no after all he never threatens any 1-C structure he dosent have any lore comparing him to the strongest beings sonic has fought and the statements that call him invincible or unbeatable from eggman and tails were debunked by the simple fact that he lost.

As for the second question I believe that metal overlord could be low 2-C and the story would still be consistent. After all by that point eggman hasn't created anything beyond low 2-C and the chaos emeralds haven't shown beyond low 2-C feats by that point either so eggmans doubts don't prove overlord is that strong.

 

[Alexander]

Ok I have a question that plays into narrative stuff and lore that I'd like you to hear me our for.

The question is why does metal overlord need to be 1-C with what the story has presented and if he wasn't 1-C would the story be different. For the first question I think the awnser is no after all he never threatens any 1-C structure he dosent have any lore comparing him to the strongest beings sonic has fought and the statements that call him invincible or unbeatable from eggman and tails were debunked by the simple fact that he lost.

The super form are called invincible too

As for the second question I believe that metal overlord could be low 2-C and the story would still be consistent. After all by that point eggman hasn't created anything beyond low 2-C and the chaos emeralds haven't shown beyond low 2-C feats by that point either so eggmans doubts don't prove overlord is that strong.

Neither the above one

 

[CloverDragon03]

No, it is not, characters grow in power, is not wank.

Grow in power =/= being 1-C

1-C Base Sonic is genuinely absurd and I don't get why we're talking as if it's at all reasonable

 

[CloverDragon03]

Ok I have a question that plays into narrative stuff and lore that I'd like you to hear me our for.

The question is why does metal overlord need to be 1-C with what the story has presented and if he wasn't 1-C would the story be different. For the first question I think the awnser is no after all he never threatens any 1-C structure he dosent have any lore comparing him to the strongest beings sonic has fought and the statements that call him invincible or unbeatable from eggman and tails were debunked by the simple fact that he lost.

As for the second question I believe that metal overlord could be low 2-C and the story would still be consistent. After all by that point eggman hasn't created anything beyond low 2-C and the chaos emeralds haven't shown beyond low 2-C feats by that point either so eggmans doubts don't prove overlord is that strong.

Agreed. I believe it was a result of it requiring 3 Super Forms, but it's all context-dependent

 

[Alexander]

Grow in power =/= being 1-C

1-C Base Sonic is genuinely absurd and I don't get why we're talking as if it's at all reasonable

Extreme power growth, also the hedgehog can restore time, it is not unreasonable

 

[Alexander]

Agreed. I believe it was a result of it requiring 3 Super Forms, but it's all context-dependent

the three of them needed to use a special ability all together, Solaris didn't require that at all

 

[McFriesGuy075]

It's probably gonna either be Shadow being 1-C with Doom's powers or Metal Overlord getting downgraded into low 2-C (soon to be 2-C)

 

[Alexander]

It's probably gonna either be Shadow being 1-C with Doom's powers or Metal Overlord getting downgraded into low 2-C (soon to be 2-C)

oh shit, injust expect someone that has the motivations to go and accept the first one

 

[CloverDragon03]

Extreme power growth, also the hedgehog can restore time, it is not unreasonable

It's only reasonable if you want it to be, to be honest. Restoring time got nothing to do with being 1-C

 

[Snek]

The super form are called invincible too

Your missing the point. What I'm saying is that low 2-C is supported by eggmans statements and feats preformed by the emeralds earlier in the series.

By contrast 1-C is based solely on the assumption that super sonic had to be at his absolute full power because his friends were present. However nothing states or shows he was at full power so overlords rating isn't based on facts only interpretation.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

It's only reasonable if you want it to be, to be honest. Restoring time got nothing to do with being 1-C

Unless he restored hypertime, which he didn't

 

[Alexander]

It's only reasonable if you want it to be, to be honest. Restoring time got nothing to do with being 1-C

well try to reason that

 

[Alexander]

Your missing the point. What I'm saying is that low 2-C is supported by eggmans statements and feats preformed by the emeralds earlier in the series.

By contrast 1-C is based solely on the assumption that super sonic had to be at his absolute full power because his friends were present. However nothing states or shows he was at full power so overlords rating isn't based on facts only interpretation.

If Super Sonic was not at his full power then the help will not be required, you don't fight with your friends and not use all of your power

 

[Alexander]

Unless he restored hypertime, which he didn't

I said this in a DBS thread, but hypertimelines sounds like the most stupid term invented for scaling

 

[Snek]

The chaos emeralds don't let you choose what power your given

 

[Alexander]

The chaos emeralds don't let you choose what power your given

Say that to Trip, not experience at all and she got a Super form.
But we know they have levels, from just a boost, to a super power, to a super form

 

[Snek]

Say that to Trip, not experience at all and she got a Super form.

I don't believe she consciously decided I want to be a dragon but the emeralds made that happen anyways.
Again the chaos emeralds don't grant a consistent level of power to its users which is why the varies rating exists in the first place.

 

[Alexander]

I don't believe she consciously decided I want to be a dragon but the emeralds made that happen anyways.
Again the chaos emeralds don't grant a consistent level of power to its users which is why the varies rating exists in the first place.

I don't think the chaos emeralds give Trip a dragon form, more like, for her at least, the super form is a dragón form.
Yes they do, they can give a power boost or a super power, the super form is the highest level of power someone can habe

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't think the chaos emeralds give Trip a dragon form, more like, for her at least, the super form is a dragón form.
Yes they do, they can give a power boost or a super power, the super form is the highest level of power someone can habe

The Super Form itself varies in power because of the variable nature of the Chaos Emeralds. Let's not start trying to argue against the canon itself

 

[Snek]

I don't think the chaos emeralds give Trip a dragon form, more like, for her at least, the super form is a dragón form.
Yes they do, they can give a power boost or a super power, the super form is the highest level of power someone can habe

You know what I think we should wait for more input because as it is now the three of us are probably going to argue in circles. So I'm going to wait an hour and see if anyone else has anything to say.

 

[Alexander]

The Super Form itself varies in power because of the variable nature of the Chaos Emeralds. Let's not start trying to argue against the canon itself

Starline only says that the abilities of the emeralds are chaotic in nature and depend of the circumstances, however it does not refer to the super forms at all.
Also IDW tends to just downgrade many things that i will not be surprised if the starline thing was actually just something that ended up rectonned

 

[CloverDragon03]

Starline only says that the abilities of the emeralds are chaotic in nature and depend of the circumstances, however it does not refer to the super forms at all.
Also IDW tends to just downgrade many things that i will not be surprised if the starline thing was actually just something that ended up rectonned

"Their power is chaotic" Actual quote from Starline. Please stop trying to argue against the very canon itself for the sake of upgrades

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Starline only says that the abilities of the emeralds are chaotic in nature and depend of the circumstances, however it does not refer to the super forms at all.
Also IDW tends to just downgrade many things that i will not be surprised if the starline thing was actually just something that ended up rectonned

Holy shit dude. Read up on the blogs in the verse page. You are too far behind on basic knowledge of Sonic power-scalling to be saying this incorrect stuff so confidently. The emeralds varying in power doesn't initially come from Starline. He merely repeated something that was first established in the Adventure games. There's no evidence that Super forms automatically tap into the full power of the emeralds, therefore they vary in power as well based on the same criterias

 

[Alexander]

"Their power is chaotic" Actual quote from Starline. Please stop trying to argue against the very canon itself for the sake of upgrades

Their power could mean their abilities, unless you think the warp topas has actual abilities besides the space manipulation and dimensional travel

 

[Alexander]

Holy shit dude. Read up on the blogs in the verse page. You are too far behind on basic knowledge of Sonic power-scalling to be saying this incorrect stuff so confidently. The emeralds varying in power doesn't initially come from Starline. He merely repeated something that was first established in the Adventure games. There's no evidence that Super forms automatically tap into the full power of the emeralds, therefore they vary in power as well based on the same criterias

which again is not true considering that you can use the power of the emeralds without using a super form, the super form is the full power of the Emeralds that someone can get and is not a Echidna

 

[CloverDragon03]

Their power could mean their abilities, unless you think the warp topas has actual abilities besides the space manipulation and dimensional travel

You are only saying this in an attempt to make this work so that you can push for 1-C Base Sonic. I will reiterate:

Please stop trying to argue against the very canon itself for the sake of upgrades

 

[Peptocoptr27]

the super form is the full power of the Emeralds that someone can get and is not a Echidna

Prove it. Being able to use the Chaos Emeralds without going Super is not proof

 

[Alexander]

You are only saying this in an attempt to make this work so that you can push for 1-C Base Sonic. I will reiterate:

Yeah, that is not hard to see

 

[Alexander]

Prove it. Being able to use the Chaos Emeralds without going Super is not proof

Yes it is, knuckles, tails and Amy only got a super power and not a super form.
Shadow in shadow the hedgehog gets a power boost by using a emerald (one emerald) and metal sonic in sonic mania adventures gets a power boost but does not turn into super metal sonic.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Yes it is, knuckles, tails and Amy only got a super power and not a super form.

They do get Super forms. They're just ******* lame

Shadow in shadow the hedgehog gets a power boost by using a emerald (one emerald) and metal sonic in sonic mania adventures gets a power boost but does not turn into super metal sonic.

...and?

 

[Theuser789]

Let's leave the scaling discussion to when the game actually comes out, please. It's starting to clog up the thread now.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah okay, I might just go and collect all the reasoning for a possible 1-C base form when the game comes out, and see what happens

 

[Alexander]

They do get Super forms. They're just ******* lame

No they didn't, which again, Sega cannot give super forms to anyone except Sonic, Shadow and Silver

...and?

You got the conclusions

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Yeah okay, I might just go and collect all the reasoning for a possible 1-C base form when the game comes out, and see what happens

I might support you. I've seen the arguments you laid out and they're decent. Alexander's on the other hand...

 

[Alexander]

I might support you. I've seen the arguments you laid out and they're decent. Alexander's on the other hand...

Ok i sometimes don't have the best of arguments...forgeted i never have them in vsbw