Sonic (Game): Chaos Emeralds upgrade

[Davy0]

There's no "Glass Cannon" issue. They were capable of hurting yet not killing Solaris, and it's ludicrious to think that he would be that much weaker in durability. Their was nothing to state that he was, and their needed to be extra steps taken into account in order to harm him in the first place with the Super Forms.

 

[Davy0]

i didn't really think about how the time eater was blown away by the emerald I just assume it was evil so it was reflected but then again it can't reflect if it doesn't have the same AP iirc

I understand that, just saying, the fact that one emerald could make the Time Eater a beast with control over an entire timeline quiver and run away speaks volumes of the potential powers of the Emeralds as a whole.

 

[Promestein]

More of an opinion here.

This seems inconsistent to me, when things that are supposed to be stronger than the Chaos Emeralds have much lower showings than Universe level+. This was brought up before, but was not addressed for whatever reason.

 

[Davy0]

More of an opinion here.
This seems inconsistent to me, when things that are supposed to be stronger than the Chaos Emeralds have much lower showings than Universe level+.

The Chaos Emeralds don't just give you power, they give you as much power as you need to defeat your foes, As I stated before, two beings of vast power were defeated by this. Not only that, the Chaos Emeralds gave the Hedgehogs the ability to defeat the concepts of the "Past, Present and Future", which means that it can possibly give hax to the wielder of the Emeralds, which isn't outlandish as Chaos Energy has been known to manipulate time and space itself (Chaos Control, anyone).

 

[Promestein]

That doesn't address my point.

If things that are supposed to be stronger than the Chaos Emeralds (like the Master Emerald and Super Emeralds) have much lower showings than Universe level+, it seems obvious to me that the Chaos Emeralds having showings on that level is just an inconsistent outlier that should not be considered valid.

 

[Antvasima]

@Promestein That is a good point.

 

[Davy0]

I hope you aren't talking about the Power of the Stars which was not mastered as a power source (which holds together two universes and would have killed Sonic and Blaze), or the Master Emerald (which vastly improves the capacity of the Chaos Emeralds to become the Super Emeralds). When it's stated multiple times in the series that the Master Emerald is superior to the Chaos Emeralds. And before anyone asks why the Master Emerald is used less than the Chaos Emeralds then, Knuckles usually breaks it before it can be used because it's that dangerous of a power source. It's even shown in Sonic Rivals that taking a capture photo of the Master Emerald makes it disappear from all existing places in time, so it only exists in the space of that capture photo.

If not, what are you talking about.

 

[Davy0]

OK, because I'm tired of linking all the sources and cites, and such. Here's the page for the Master Emerald - http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Master_Emerald , Here's the page for the Chaos Emerald. - http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Chaos_Emerald . It has all the information you need.

The Master Emerald can be used to amplify the power of the Chaos Emeralds, or neutralize them. If it wasn't for the fact that the Dark Brotherhood was non-canon, it also states it's literally the STRONGEST object on the planet, that's with the Chaos Emeralds on there.

A quote from Knuckles in Sonic Adventure 2: [1] The Master Emerald contains special powers that neutralize the energyof the Chaos Emeralds. That makes it very powerful! [2]

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

At this point, I feel this is a circular conversation.

 

[Davy0]

At this point, I feel this is a circular conversation.

That's not my fault, that's not my problem, you guys keep circling around and doing it over and over again. Each time this happens, even with the amount of evidence I stack, it's constantly the same thing. I'm trying not to get disheveled from it. But it gets difficult when people don't read, want to make excuses for why something can't be accepted, or just like to push the topic around so that it can be closed and then this happens all over again. It's the same thing every time, however this time there's irrefutable proof.

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew Probably, yes. Anyway, what do you think that we should do about the Time Eater's glass cannon statistics?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Time Eater should probably be treated in the same way Solaris is treated, as an outlier. I say his Durability should be equal to his AP.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will adjust it.

 

[Promestein]

I don't care about Sonic, and I'm not going to needlessly oppose something for the sake of opposing it when I don't care.

The Master Emerald and Super Emeralds do not appear in any of the games with the Universe level+ feats, and, again, do not have any Universe level+ feats on their own. I still believe the feats are outliers.

I'm fine with Time Eater's durability being upgraded so that it is equal to its AP.

 

[Davy0]

No. It shouldn't. Don't do it Ant, I don't know why these guys are doing this. But it's the same thing, you're stating that all the evidence that was shown today is outlier. Which makes no sense, is there anything in story that can be applied to them as Glass Cannon. If there is evidence, you need to show that. Because otherwise, just like any other character on this wiki, unless stated as such, or shown as such with irrefutable proof, he should be Universe Level+ in durability.

 

[Davy0]

I don't care about Sonic, and I'm not going to needlessly oppose something for the sake of opposing it when I don't care.
The Master Emerald and Super Emeralds do not appear in any of the games with the Universe level+ feats, and, again, do not have any Universe level+ feats on their own. I still believe the feats are outliers.

I'm fine with Time Eater's durability being upgraded so that it is equal to its AP.

What do you base this off of. Because my links state otherwise.

 

[Davy0]

Ah, I see what you did there, thank you Matthew and I am sorry about that.

However, that does not change the fact that the Chaos Emeralds had to be capable of giving the amount of power to smash the Time Eater anyway, so still calling them outliers with what I linked to you makes no sense.

 

[Antvasima]

We usually do not have the time and energy to read through long texts, as we have plenty of matters to handle every day. Can you give a summary of the evidence that you linked to?

Also, I trust the wiki staff. They constantly help me out in managing this wiki. If they do not agree with something, I usually won't either.

 

[Davy0]

Can I use the actual links I just placed up using the wiki instead of painstakingly doing what I did with the other Sonic threads I made looking through evidence and then having it thrown away because people thought it was wrong, Antvasima?

That's the same mentality of the OBD though, if the popular ones or the high power ones don't believe something is right, just because they feel (and have no evidence) towards it being wrong. They just laugh in your face and circle-jerk you.

 

[Promestein]

Master Emerald > Chaos Emeralds is not proof for Universe level+ being anything but an outlier. The Master Emerald (and Super Emeralds) are obviously superior, but that doesn't mean the feat isn't an outlier.

 

[Davy0]

Because they aren't used as much as the Chaos Emeralds, but they are constantly stated to be superior to them, constantly. Like a lot. Their are already power sources like the "Power of the Stars" that keeps various parallel dimensions from collapsing upon one another, so it's not an outlier for the Sonicverse to have such extreme sources of power.

 

[Antvasima]

@Davy0 We try to be polite and respectful in this wiki, but the staff is not required to agree with you.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, again, we need concrete easily understood summaries of the evidence.

 

[Davy0]

I've already done that before. I'm going to need you to promise me that they are actually read and I'm not going to go through excruciating pains to do what I've already did three times before, for you guys.

 

[Antvasima]

I will try to read through it, but I am constantly very busy with managing everything going on in this wiki at once, so my attention span is limited.

Also, we need explicit proof/statements of variable power levels, as opposed to being outliers.

 

[Antvasima]

And as usual, there are no guarantees, for you or anybody else in this wiki, that other members will agree with you.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Hop does agree with Davy, but only on some points. Also I do kind of feel there are some changes to some of the boss and antagonist characters (i.e. the ones suggested above)

 

[Davy0]

I will try to read through it, but I am constantly very busy with managing everything going on in this wiki at once, so my attention span is limited.
Also, we need explicit proof/statements of variable power levels, as opposed to being outliers.

It has nothing to do with that. Because if you check, too many times did I already state the same thing over and over, to someone just because they did not read what was stated already up top. This means that they either didn't read it or didn't care. So in this, if the information is already placed up there. And someone asks a question regarding what should have already be answered. I have every rite to ignore them because they do not wish to have a serious discussion, and only wish to circle-jerk the topic so that it has the same result of the three other Sonic topics I've already done this with.

I need your word on this Antvasima. Otherwise we're just going to continue as we are here, becuase I'm tired of working hard and then having my hard work thrown away.

 

[Antvasima]

I cannot promise you anything more than in my last post. I cannot afford this topic particularly more attention than any other.

 

[Davy0]

You don't have to. What I'm asking you is, if someone isn't reading it, can I skip them and not comment to them unless they ask a question that shows relevance? Whether you're there or not, you'll be able to look at whatever happens at your earliest convenience.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I cannot force you to reply to others, but the thread may turn incoherent if you do not respond to the staff.

 

[Davy0]

If the staff does not read what I placed on the OP, then wouldn't they be just as liable as the other messengers? That's why I don't get the system. At what point does personal responsibility to abide by the rules stated above, get thrown out the window. If you just state yes, then yeah we can get this done quickly, as I do not wish for another thread like the other three I made.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not even remember your previous threads, but as I mentioned, I trust and appreciate the staff. I do not like when regular members disrespect them.

 

[Antvasima]

Still, you can post your evidence, but it also might not lead to any changes, if people disagree. That is just the way things work.

 

[Davy0]

Then I'm not posting all that evidence for no reason. I'm not disrespecting staff, staff are humans, with extra adminstrative powers. They have thoughts and feelings, bias and are fans of works just like any other person. The staff is just as responsible for their actions as regular members.

But yeah, if you can't promise me that then I can't make the evidence thread. All the evidence is already here, you guys will have to read through it and I'll explain it all the same.

 

[Antvasima]

I am just saying that people may still disagree with you, and for the record, I, and Lord Kavpeny, have been very careful in trying to only select the members who are most reliable and reasonable for the staff positions.

 

[Davy0]

I'm not arguing anything like that. You don't have to tell me that. All I know is, you can trust someone all you want, but their character is their own. It has nothing to do with what you saw in them, human nature always comes out in the end.

But let us stop talking about that please. Back on the topic of whether the "Thoughts into Power" statement is credible and if the Chaos Emeralds are a credible Universal Source of power.

I'll add. The Sonicverse already has the Power of the Stars as an item which is capable of keeping multiple universes stable (two or more, it's vague) so there is with no doubt no reason why the Chaos Emeralds can't be at the level which I've constantly said they should be on.

 

[Antvasima]

Do we have the "Power of the Stars" as a profile here?

 

[Davy0]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Jeweled_Scepter

Now that I'm looking at it, that should be at least Universe Level+, it never stated whether it was only the two worlds that it was keeping together, it was only showing the two worlds, all it said was "parallel worlds".

 

[Antvasima]

I have adjusted the Jeweled Scepter profile.