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Sonic CRT again

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I've seen the cutscene.

Yes, you made an assumption that doesn't support the dialogue and are trying to pass that off as evidence for a revision.
 
Dialogue really? They could've shook hands and flew away simple. Also didn't you say in another thread the reason why they were pulling was because of the restoration of their worlds?
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
The worlds began restoring themselves and returned to their regular positions after Egg Salamander was defeated.

Your point is?
Click to expand...
If the worlds are restoring themselves then what's pulling Sonic and Blaze?
 
I'll just add this for the time being, I'm gonna be absent for a bit.

These are taken from the following links: https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(2006) (Sonic 06 profile. Plot summary is the important part)

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(2006)/Script_(Sonic_Episode) (Sonic story script)

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(2006)/Script_(Last_Episode) (Last episode script)

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Solaris (Solaris profile)

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/End_of_the_World (end of the world level)

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_Rush/Script_(Sonic) (Sonic Rush quote)

- Elise: Yes. The name of the sun god our country honors is Solaris... It is told that Solaris's rage would destroy the world.

- The level is called the End of the World

- Eggman: Solaris flung the Chaos Emeralds to the distant corners of this distorted world.

- From the guide book: Bathing them in a brilliant yellow, Super Sonic stands ready to fight Solaris for the fate of the world.

When they refer to the world they mean universe.

- End of the World is the final Action Stage of Sonic the Hedgehog (2006). In this Action Stage, all playable characters in the game (save for Blaze and Sonic) work together in order to gather all seven Chaos Emeralds and resurrect Sonic before Solaris can completely destroy the fabric of reality. - Tails: There's a tear in the space-time continuum... and it's expanding! If it continues to expand... the fabric of reality will become altered! <— from Sonic Rush.

Fabric of reality means universe.

- Shadow: The time-space rift is expanding... There's no more time, I need to hurry.

The universe is still undergoing its destruction, a multiverse buster would would obliterate the universe without a second thought.


Solaris distorting the world's fabric of reality

Again the world = universe, and the fabric of reality is referred to the universe.

- As a transcendent life form, Solaris possesses a unique state of existence that lets him exist in the past, present and future simultaneously, making him omnipresent throughout time and virtually impossible to defeat unless he is attacked simultaneously in all eras.

- Eggman reveals that Solaris is about to bring about the end of the world by destroying time itself, and that, being a transcendental life form, it cannot be defeated in the present as it exists in all timelines, so defeating it in the present would do nothing.

These two paragraphs contradict themselves, the first one says that he exists in all timelines and the next one says he exists in all eras, proving there's no consistency between timelines and eras.

This makes no sense at all, the info that are on wiki's, guides, context clues and other in game statements are literally pointing to universal. Even the feat is only universal+. Yet one statement is taken super literally when it's contextually incorrect. You keep saying that it's head canon when timelines and eras mean the same thing in 06 even though I'm giving evidence that these characters are literally saying them. It's not head canon it's fact, what's hean canon is assuming the plot takes place across multiple timelines when it doesn't. Timelines don't change other timelines and even if they do in OTHER fictions, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that's the case. If it was true that other timelines affect each other, then crisis city wouldn't exist in an alternate dimension after 06. Stop trying to deny evidence by saying it's head canon when you know it wrong.

And before I get to the rest, the flood analogy. Explain this if a character is stated to destroy the universe but is taking a while to destroy even a solar system, are they universal? If it's stated that they can destroy the universe why would they only say the fate of the solar system? It's quite literally what Eggman's statement is. If a multiverse is about to be destroyed then it's the fate of the multiverse at stake not the universe. It's so weird how people keep desperately grasping onto Eggman's one statement and using it as some kind of word of God, but if it was another verse a statement like that would be completely disregarded.

It's so simple if characters mean eras when they say timelines, then Eggman's statement is wrong. Solaris was only shown destroying the universe. He's stated over and over to be a threat to the world, which is the universe. The guide book is self explanatory and never mentions a multiverse. Time and space itself =/= multiverse, it could literally be able to put holes in space time. Solaris eating dimensions for lunch is low 2-C, I eat planets for lunch that doesn't mean I'm solar system level or I eat stars for lunch that doesn't mean I'm multi-solar system or even galaxy level. Solaris takes long to destroy the universe, yeah he was stopped before he achieved his goal but that was after the long exposition and collecting the chaos emeralds. Solaris would have more than enough time to destroy the universe if he was multiverse level, he didn't hesitate to plunge the universe into darkness so why stop there? The guide book says it. Other characters say the world, which is universe.

Solaris is an overhyped character that's carried by a very weak statement. How come no one else has EVER pointed out the timelines misinterpretation? I guess we we should upgrade Bayonetta characters to 2-C because the trinity of realities is stated to be separate dimensions because statements are everything right? I guess we should have 3-A Namek Saga Freeza cause he was stated to destroy the universe. 4-C Saitama. 3-A Kaguya. 3-B Asura. 1-C Alien X. FTL Naruto. 3-A Dante. Tier 1 Godzilla. 2-A bleach and many more. Statements aren't everything, especially if they're contextually wrong and lack feats to prove it. This is the Vs Battle Fandom, we aim for accuracy and consistency. We can't be bias towards any verse guys.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Solaris is an overhyped character that's carried by a very weak statement. How come no one else has EVER pointed out the timelines misinterpretation? I guess we we should upgrade Bayonetta characters to 2-C because the trinity of realities is stated to be separate dimensions because statements are everything right? I guess we should have 3-A Namek Saga Freeza cause he was stated to destroy the universe. 4-C Saitama. 3-A Kaguya. 3-B Asura. 1-C Alien X. FTL Naruto. 3-A Dante. Tier 1 Godzilla. 2-A bleach and many more. Statements aren't everything, especially if they're contextually wrong and lack feats to prove it. This is the Vs Battle Fandom, we aim for accuracy and consistency. We can't be bias towards any verse guys.
Click to expand...
Congrats on triggering me with 3-A Dante.

Your examples hold no relevance to the topic at hand. At all. And there is other proof for 2-C Solaris.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
snip
Click to expand...
Lots of red herring fallacy here.

In this case, time and space does = multiverse because it goes with Eggman's statement of Solaris consuming dimensions. Also no, him not destroying everything at the start =/= he can only destroy one universe. The point is to stop Solaris before he does.
 
Reality =/= universe, reality itself could be a High 1-B multiverse, in this case, reality is sonic's multiverse. Also is normal to villains to be affected by PIS so they bother fighting the heroes instead of insta-nuking everything.

>These two paragraphs contradict themselves,the first one says he exists in all timelines and the Next one It says he exists in all eras, proving there is no consistency between timelines and eras. Void Termina exists in all dimensions

They dont contradict, they support themselves, It proves that Solaris is Time omnipresent like dialga on a 2-C scale.

I disagree with the downgrade.
 
> It proves that Solaris is time omnipresent on a 2-C scale

Ok, remember the boss fight? Each hedgehog in a point in time, they weren't traveling dimensions or else they wouldn't have beaten Solaris.
 
Mainly the worlding on Eggman's statement and how it's contextually wrong. See the Solaris section in the OP for more.
 
I respect how well put out the OP is, but I disagree with the downgrades.
 
Its right that its inconsistent, but seems like it, Also one doesnt need precisely to be omnipresent to be some tier, It is or not, Solaris definitely is 2-C.
 
Hold up I'm making a solution, Solaris is a strange concept but hopefully you guys would understand what I'm suggesting next.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Hold up I'm making a solution, Solaris is a strange concept but hopefully you guys would understand what I'm suggesting next.
Click to expand...
The solution would be adding extra justification for Solaris which I believe should be Powerscaling Solaris to be more "powerful than" Egg Wizard as it can destroy all timelines as opposed to Egg Wizard's feat which is less.
 
Merlight said:
Egg Wizard would be devoured at that point in time by Solaris since its part of the main timeline, is that what you are saying Nedge1000? :D
Click to expand...
Merlight, my point is can be Solaris power scale to be more "powerful than" Egg Wizard and it would help solve the issue for those who questioned his 2-C rating
 
Solaris being more powerful than Egg Wizard is pretty obvious when Egg Wizard's feat was baseline while Solaris's destruction would've encompassed the whole multiverse.

If you want to add it back in though, then sure.
 
I'll admit I was slightly low-balling because of unclear statements and for the sake of safe scaling but there are things that I missed. So let me start over with Solaris and even things out a little bit. I've been thinking about it and I might have a solution to this problem.

Now obviously Solaris has a bunch of 4D statements but most of them are vague and range from low 2-C to potentially 1-B (Kudos to Kirby). These statements / terms are reality, time and space, and world so they aren't really supportive of anything. However there's a balance between the two

Starting with Solaris phase 1 I think we should go off of the feat he performed. When Solaris was summoned he immediately ruined the fabric of the universe without hesitation but he didn't destroy it. Any multiverse buster would one shot the entire universe many times over without a second thought. Solaris phase 1 is definitively low 2-C hell when the guide book says for the fate of the universe it shows a picture of the body of light of Solaris phase 1.

Now for phase 2, this is the true form of Solaris. Eggman was likely referring to phase 2 to be able to destroy the multiverse. I mean Eggman did say that the light shells are likely anchoring him so it's probably not supposed to be there. There are even statues, medals, pictures and symbols all over Soleanna even further implying that's the true form of Solaris. Even a quote from the guide book states the following.

- Solaris's second form is that of a giant Phoenix - a winged cosmic creation with the power to destroy time and space itself. The God's Achilles heel is still the red core at the center of its being, but accessing this weak spot is difficult due to Solaris's fierce offense. The monster is surrounded by eyes that absorb attacks, it continues to hurl spiked balls across space and its beam attack is super charged so that it fires eight energy beams at the heroes.

The ability to destroy time and space itself is stated to be an ability he has in his second form. In the other page of the guide book also said in the page before that Solaris was threatening the universe but that was when he was Phase 1. It's blatantly pointed out and specifically stated that Phase 2 can destroy time and space itself. Also Solaris being superior to the Egg Wizard is actually something that went over my head. How careless of me. So Phase 1 = low 2-C, Phase 2 = 2-C. Also bring the Egg Wizard statement back on Solaris's profile.

Stay tuned for the second part of my post, I'm in school so things are running a little slow.
 
On one hand, you're right that Sonic and the other super hedgehogs have no direct 2-C feats, but Egg Wizard and Eggman Nega's baseline 2-C feats are actually pretty legit. And even if they didn't go all out against Super Sonic, Sonic is still capable of harming them.

As for Time Eater, he may be gradually warping the universe, but there doesn't need to be destruction for feat in question to be Low 2-C. And Solaris, while it may be argued that Phase 1 merely has a Low 2-C destruction feat, he should still be above Egg Wizard and Eggman Nega; which makes him a solid 2-C either way. Solaris is the only instance in the entire franchise where the hedgehogs absorbed the entirety of the 7 Chaos Emeralds and used their pure "Evil's Bane" powers; every other instance was them absorbing a fraction of the Chaos Emeralds because that's about as much as they need.

And while they don't officially quite scale from Solaris, the Hedgehogs do have enough raw power to as least harm him and the hax to get around his 4th dimensional transcendence. Which is still 2-C at their peak.
 
Well, i never said Solaris may range from low-2-C to High 1-B, i just said space-time can Up to High 1-B (example, Marvel) wich isnt solaris's case, Solaris ranges from low-2-C to 2-C.
 
Now Super forms are a different case.

First I'll go over Solaris phase 2. As soon as he transformed he was impossible to harm. The hedgehogs shouldn't scale to phase 2 because they cannot harm his form. It also doesn't make sense to jump tiers. Next is the two worlds feat.

Although the distance between low 2-C and 2-C is unquantifiable, it is in no way infinite.

  • Universe level+: ("Low 2-C") This is for characters who can destroy and/or create the entire 4-dimensional space-time of a single universe, not just the physical matter within one. For example, an entire timeline.
  • Low Multiverse level: Characters who can destroy and/or create up to 1000 universal space-time continuums. The power difference between Low 2-C and 2-C characters is not possible to exactly quantify, given that the latter category has to breach the distance between universes along a 5-dimensional axis.
So to make a 2-C character it has to be one universe + another universe + 5-D axis. Shared feats between two characters and a baseline 2-C make the characters low 2-C each but borderline 2-C. They can only destroying universe each but have the destructive range to reach 2-C. Let me give an example: if a character is borderline 2-C they can blow up a universe but in that explosion they are able to affect another universe next to it (like touching the other universe, putting a door sized crack in space time, or even slightly moving it) but not being able to destroy it. This is the same case with the Chaos Emeralds and the Sol Emeralds. Next is the Power of the Stars.

As stated above the PoTS are just superior to Beth the chaos and sol emeralds. It was done via a measuring device. Eggman Nega implied they were holding back. Now it can definitely be argued that they kept their durability but chaos energy has the same energy output as durability, that's why the chaos emeralds have a variable tier.

Now the Egg Salamander should be low 2-C, he has no 2-C feats bore statements. Absorbing chaos energy shouldn't be a 2-C feat or else Perfect Chaos and Dark Gaia would be 2-C.
 
@Zamasu Yes, the difference between Low 2-C and 2-C is unquantifiable, such that you can't divide a 2-C feat into Low 2-C like how Low 2-C x 2 doesn't equal 2-C.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
@Negde I'm not trying to downgrade the Egg Wizard.
@Shadow re-read what I wrote.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I confused it for something else.

It feat would still be 2-C:

(Drained energy from the Sol Emeralds, the presence of which was causing Blaze's world to merge with Sonic's which in turn would've caused both worlds to collapse. Dr. Eggman planned to use this mecha's power to create his own dimension after the destruction of both worlds), can negate conventional durability with spatial slicing
 
It was both the emeralds because of that one is affecting each universe but the 5D axis is unquantifiable, so it's still borderline. Borderline is just low 2-C with 2-C range.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
It was both the emeralds because of that one is affecting each universe but the 5D axis is unquantifiable, so it's still borderline. Borderline is just low 2-C with 2-C range.
Click to expand...
Our metrics are destruction or creation for 2-C of universes with timelines from Feats or Statements.
 
Even Phase 1 Solaris should be superior to Egg Wizard, so I'm pretty positive he'd still be 2-C and would thus scale to peak condition Super forms.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Even Phase 1 Solaris should be superior to Egg Wizard, so I'm pretty positive he'd still be 2-C and would thus scale to peak condition Super forms.
Click to expand...
The Egg Wizard came after Solaris, it's Superior to the Egg Salamander probably. Also lower feats contradicts 2-C phase 1 because of how they're performed.
 
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