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Son Goku (Toei) / GT / Non-Canon Revision

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The_2nd_Existential_Seed

The_2nd_Existential_Seed

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Whelp. This needed to be addressed in one form or another. I figured a thread specifically made for this issue should be made in order to properly adjust the characters who scale to it, and to talk about consistency and other such issues.

The Calc

Goku Shakes the Afterlife

Result: 7.6751203e+67 joules , or 767 ZettaFoe, or Galaxy Level (3-C).

Scaling

Who does it scale to: Anyone in Toeiverse who scales above SSJ3 Goku (After the first fight with Majin Buu, but before/potentially after his fight with Kid Buu). When I have the time I'll go through all the pages that we have and list them appropriately:

Gohan (Potential Unleashed/ Ultimate Gohan)

Kid Buu, Majin Buu , Buutenks , Buuhan

Son Goku (Any key above Majin Buu Arc)

Janemba (Weaker than Buuhan, but not by that much)

Gogeta (All transformations, sans DBS Broly Movie [Sorry for potential spoilers here])

Vegito (All transformations, sans DBS)

Beerus / Whis (Toeiverse/Battle of Gods)

SSB Goku/Vegeta (RoF Movie/Toeiverse)

Broly (God Broly)

Hirudegarn

Every GT Character that is above BoGT Base Goku.

Future Warrior (1&2)

Mira (XV1 & XV2)

Hero (Due to scaling to GT Characters Baby and Omega)

Consistency

Is it consistent ? In a short answer.... Yes. We have had several characters gradually destroy the universe pretty easily in one form or another whose far weaker than this iteration of SSJ3 Goku. This also is consistent with some statements about Vegito and Buuhan , Gogeta and Janemba , as well as Omega Shenron and God-Tiers of GT having statements of 3-C to 3-B . Also, the fact that Base Goku (Beginning of GT) is capable of a similar feat to the Afterlife feat casually means it isn't a outlier that this feat was performed. Plus it consistently matches the gradual progression of power in Toeiverse : (5-A ---> High 5-A/Low 4-C ---> High 4-C ---> 4-B ----> 4-A ----> 3-C)

Votes

For it: Rain-xix, Quantu, AKM sama, Kepekley23, DMUA, DarkDragonMedeus, Glassman, Assaltwaffle, DragonEmperor12, Dark649, Blacke Jan, SSJRyu1, LightinAnt, Seed, Aguila, The Smashor, HST master

Against it: The real cal howard, Matthew Schroeder, Turbo

Neutral: AKM sama (Neutral towards the upgrade, but agrees with the feat itself being a legit feat)
 
I'm always for the afterlife shaking feat to be at the very least be 4-A due to simple logic.

But if the calcs give 3-C then even better.
 
As I said in the comments of the blog itself, I'm fine.
 
I completely agree with this. It fits the power progression witnessed perfectly.

At the beginning of Z, Piccolo easily exhibits enough power output to obliterate a large planet when he one-shots the Moon. Then we progress to Vegeta and see him casually blowing up Arlia and King Vegeta blowing up a planetary system (either three planets or a planet and its two moons), both feats on the small star to star destruction. Then we see Freeza, the big bad, blowing up Planet Vegeta, which puts him on the large star busting range while suppressed.

Perfectly crystal progression so far, a guy who dwarves everyone else in the series massively showing High 4-C AP while suppressed against everyone else's Low 4-C power.

Then we see Cooler's Supernova creating an explosion that dwarves the Sun and arguably almost reaches Earth, putting him well into 4-B. We have now reached Super Saiyan tier power.

Then, after stagnating a bit, we finally see Broly one shotting a considerable portion of a galaxy while being actively restrained and in his normal Super Saiyan state. We have finally entered the Ascended Super Saiyan/Suppressed Perfect Cell tier of strength, and progressed to 4-A levels of strength. Then Broly powers up immensely and reaches the Perfect Cell/Full-Power Super Saiyan Gohan tier of power, but never progresses to Super Saiyan 2 tiers quite yet.

Finally, we see a suppressed/restrained and casual Kid Boo obliterating a considerable portion of a galaxy, just like Broly. That same restrained version of Kid Boo would then proceed to go and fight Super Saiyan 2 Goku in equal terms. We have finally reached the Super Saiyan 2 tier.

And then, when Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan 3 to battle Janemba, we see how powerful the upper tier of Z really is. Goku easily shakes a universe-sized (if not bigger) plane by powering up from his Super Saiyan 2 state, which takes minutes and clearly shows how far above everything else Super Saiyan 3 is meant to be.

We finally reach the Super Saiyan 3 tier, where galaxy busting is possible.
 
"Then we see Cooler's Supernova creating an explosion that dwarves the Sun and arguably almost reaches Earth, putting him well into 4-B. We have now reached Super Saiyan tier power"

Something here does not sound right.
 
Yeah, that scene is a bit weird, but we're shown Cooler creating a blast that clearly far dwarves the Sun and stops just short of the Earth's radius - it actually seems to have destroyed it for a second, since everything gets dark. It suddenly comes back after a while, though.
 
I mean

Just creating a sun sized boom is only Tier 5 by itself
 
Here is the scene. It's pretty self evident that the Supernova did bust the Sun, but the writers went "oh wait, without a Sun nobody will be able to survive and there won't be any time to gather the Dragon Balls derp; let's pretend we didn't write that in"
 
Not clickbait

Radius of the sun is 695,508 KM

Slapping that into the explosion formula

((695,508├À0.28)^3) equals 1.532612259905E19 Kilotons, 15.3261225990586 Zettatons, Small Planet level

Half for non nuclear is 7.66306129952934 Zettatons
 
> Slapping that into the explosion formula

This formula was made assuming explosions taking place within the Earth's atmosphere. It's utterly inaccurate for explosions within the vacuum of space. You'd be better off with the inverse square law with solar GBE thrown in, which is more in line with vacuums since only an infinitesimal portion of the energy gets absorbed by external source.
 
I do know that, indeed

However wouldn't that mean there's even less energy to pressurize space in vacuum or am I out of touch with Explosion functions?
 
Kepekley23 said:
> Slapping that into the explosion formula

This formula was made assuming explosions taking place within the Earth's atmosphere. It's utterly inaccurate for explosions within the vacuum of space. You'd be better off with the inverse square law with solar GBE thrown in, which is more in line with vacuums since only an infinitesimal portion of the energy gets absorbed by external source.
Click to expand...
Does that mean this calc is wrong?
 
The average gamma ray burst is about the size of Uranus but is still violently into 4-B. So I'm pretty sure that's not the case.
 
Nonetheless, this derails the actual convo, so let's drop this and take that discussion to somewhere else.
 
Broly's profile pretty clearly says it's what he did. I have contested the feat myself and gotten rejected in the past.

Nonetheless, what Broly needed to do would still be 4-A either way, so semantics.
 
The beginning of the movie clearly establishes Broly destroyed a noticeable portion of the Southern Galaxy, even ignoring the "fading spiral" introduction. Considering King Kai's attention was forcefully and suddenly grabbed, that implies Broly had just released a large, wide-AoE attack that had razed a large area all at once, which is the reason why King Kai had finally noticed him. His face further shows his disbelief at what he had just noticed.

Broly's unpredictable behavior and anger had been making him occasionally destroy civilizations as a kid, but once he reached adulthood he had begun razing wide areas all at once at a fast ratio, which is how he finally attracted King Kai's attention.
 
Kep you should correct the final result of your calc tho.

Highlighting a DB thread is a no-no since it will quickly become a mess. They tend to gain attention on their own.
 
In one shot? No. He just destroyed noticeable portions.

Overall? He definitely destroyed almost all of it. It's stated.
 
I have no idea what that means, but the original script translated by Herms states multiple times that Broly ended up destroying nearly all of the Southern Galaxy and that there are only fragments left. Paragus himself doesn't consider what's left of the Southern Galaxy as worth including in his empire.

Either way, this is semantics. Broly is 4-A while restrained and even then is at most on Perfect Cell's level in LSSJ. Super Saiyan 2-tier suppressed Kid Boo is 4-A, so Super Saiyan 2 tier characters are high end 4-A. It makes perfect sense for SSJ3 Goku to be tier 3. Suppressed Base Goku on GT also does the same while powering up.
 
Also, this is the same film that shows Janemba warping nearly all of the Afterlife in his fat form. If you want to talk about outliers, 3-B/3-A Janemba happening in the exact same movie is the outlier. Not the reasonable tier 3 SSJ3 Goku consequence that is backed up by power progression and GT feats.
 
Since were disscusing the upgrades for DB I would like to put in two cents on the galaxy feat.

1 important side note, the distance is actually larger. Heaven alone is the size of the universe.

Even pixel scaling strictly what we see as extra space underneath kais planet, it would be over 1.48 times the distance of the observable Unvierse as a low ball. hell is even further down.

So low ball 6.512e26 meter radius

6.309573e+13 * (1/2*4*pi*6.512e26^2) = 1.68e68 joules

less than 5 times away from multi-galaxy.

https://imgur.com/a/CiFbP0z

https://imgur.com/a/YAIAgcL

Based on the fact this was just by powering up, and the distance is low balled extremely since the screen never even reaches Hell or even snake way etc. ANd Kep has even stated it was a massive lowball to begin with due to it being mostly solid ground, I think it is more than reasonable to give them multi galaxy level personally.

Also for further proof I made a blog on KId Buu being able to destroy Grand Kais planet, which would be multi-galaxy level in and of it's own right.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:SSJRyu1/Kid_Buu_the_galaxy_buster

As you can see he is well into multi galaxy level for being able to bust the planet.

Not to mention all the statements we get of destroying galaxies and the unvierse in anime/movies.

I strongly think 3-B is realisitic for TOIE verse guys that are SSJ3 Buu saga Goku level and up.


Also I do think that the calc for the DBZ speed upgrade is accurate to so it could perhaps be passed along with this.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2379303
 
Maybe. Heaven being the size of the universe is itself arguable, however, since it's based on Videl of all people's words. Then again the Daizenshuu also confirms it, so overall it's very much a "I don't know?" thing.

Janemba's feat does show that 3-C SSJ3 Goku is not at all the only feat on that range, and that when joined with everything else is basically a reasonable middle ground from the arguably outlierish higher feats.
 
Well i figure videl says it, but they wouldnt have it randomly put there for no reason so intent is that is the size, also like you say guides back it up, and map seems to place it like that in general to, so id say it`s legit and not contradicted.

Definatly more than 1 feat. Although Gokus feat is casual and extremely low balled, yet stil virtually 3-B, and Kid Buu`s is well into 3-B, I think considering they are universal threats and have one unquestionable 3-B and one that even low balled to an extreme degree is almost 3-B that 3-B would be consistent tbh. Also consider SSJ3 Goku is inferior to Janemba, Hirudegarn, any GT guys etc to so they only get stronger.
 
Goku's feat wasn't really casual. It happened in conjunction with him transforming into a Super Saiyan 3, a feat that Goku himself says requires plenty of effort at the time. Of course any proper ki blast that Goku throws scales above it since it's an effect of Goku's aura alone, but overall I'd rather say it was a moderately difficult feat.

Base GT Goku's version is a blatantly casual one, though. It's him going from a suppressed state to...another suppressed state that's slightly higher, or at best close to his full power.
 
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