Something From The Nightside | Greenverse Discussion Thread

[Rutæhh]

Discuss anything Nightside related

 

[Rutæhh]

I am currently making a new John Taylor profile and planning the following:
Mortals
Suzie Shooter
Lilith
Henry Walker
Merlin Satanspawn
King Arthur
Dead Boy
The Oblivion Brothers
Eddie Drood
Molly Metcalf
JC Chance
Happy Jack Palmer
Melody Chamber
Owen and Giles Deathstalker
Blue Fairy
Mr Stab
Janissary Jane
James Drood
Kim Sterling


Mid tiers
The Walking Man
Razor Eddie
Jessica Sorrow
The Fae
The Sleeper

Gods
Ethel
Heart of the Droods
Lilith
Fenris Tenebrae
The Flesh Undying
Shiva Rising
The Invaders
The Beast
items
Speaking Gun




Verse Page
Combat Magic Blog
The Sight blog
Drood Armor blog
Explanation blog for Secret Names
layers blog
useful thread
another useful thread
If any of you want to make a profile just say so

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

there are respect threads on NF and SB which have scans and quotes about important stuff you can use

 

[Rutæhh]

there are respect threads on NF and SB which have scans and quotes about important stuff you can use

im really srry to ask but what is NF and SB

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

im really srry to ask but what is NF and SB

Nauto Forum, SpaceBatles

 

[Rutæhh]

aint nobody here broo

 

[Rutæhh]

making some good progress on this. want to get this peer reviewed tho

bump

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

someone already made a cosmology blog

 

[Rutæhh]

someone already made a cosmology blog

u cant be serious

wasted my time

maybe i could help get this accepted or something...

 

[Udlmaster]

I am currently making a new John Taylor profile and planning the following:

I will never allow the Nightside series to ever be cursed with a list P&A section.

I will see the heat death of the universe before that happens.

Also, I'm really confused on your tier list

 

[Rutæhh]

I will never allow the Nightside series to ever be cursed with a list P&A section.

I will see the heat death of the universe before that happens.

lists>

Also, I'm really confused on your tier list

wdym? is it the john taylor tier?

 

[Udlmaster]

lists>

No bigger lie has ever been told.

wdym? is it the john taylor tier?

Nah, the thing you posted above

Mortals
Suzie Shooter
Lilith
Henry Walker
Merlin Satanspawn
King Arthur
Dead Boy
The Oblivion Brothers
Eddie Drood
Molly Metcalf
JC Chance
Happy Jack Palmer
Melody Chamber
Owen and Giles Deathstalker
Blue Fairy
Mr Stab
Janissary Jane
James Drood
Kim Sterling


Mid tiers
The Walking Man
Razor Eddie
Jessica Sorrow
The Fae
The Sleeper

Gods
Ethel
Heart of the Droods
Lilith
Fenris Tenebrae
The Flesh Undying
Shiva Rising
The Invaders
The Beast
items
Speaking Gun

 

[Rutæhh]

Nah, the thing you posted above

oh that. yea its just what of each character in terms of power
even though some of them are just straight up wrong

 

[Udlmaster]

oh that. yea its just what of each character in terms of power

Yeah, I found it strange that The Walking Man is considered to be a Mid-tier when even the Lord of Thorns thought he couldn't stop him even if he had his old power and certainty back.

Same with the Fae being on equal grounds with Merlin Satanspawn

I'd also put Jessica Sorrow much higher on the list

 

[Rutæhh]

Yeah, I found it strange that The Walking Man is considered to be a Mid-tier when even the Lord of Thorns thought he couldn't stop him even if he had his old power and certainty back.

yea i remember that Lord of Thorns saying hes higher on the podium than him. which would mean hes stronger than most of the gods on The Street of Gods which he displayed earlier in the book as well

Same with the Fae being on equal grounds with Merlin Satanspawn

i forgot

I'd also put Jessica Sorrow much higher on the list

yea considering that Julian Advent and the Authorities thought that Jessica would be a good match for the Walking Man

 

[Rutæhh]

The walking man also killed a transient being and absorbed his concept.
maybe i could get bro resistant to all the hax displayed in the verse as well due to him being stated invulnerable to all the sorts of magics and science

 

[Udlmaster]

yea i remember that Lord of Thorns saying hes higher on the podium than him. which would mean hes stronger than most of the gods on The Street of Gods which he displayed earlier in the book as well

Definitely, Jessica Sorrow, Walker, Razor Eddie also do similar things on occasion.

In the second book we're told flat out when Jessica Sorrow shows up, everyone closes shop and waits for the hurricane to pass.

yea considering that Julian Advent and the Authorities thought that Jessica would be a good match for the Walking Man

Yeah, definitely. We don't know if it would have worked at all, but she was on the list.

i forgot

Yeah, the Fae are definitely below Merlin, given we know in Sinister Albion, he kills all the Fae as to prevent them ever becoming a threat to him.

The walking man also killed a transient being and absorbed his concept.

Nah, didn't absorb The Inscrutable Enigma per se, when it says its "base idea consumed by a bigger one" it means consumed as in to "use up" since the Inscrutable Enigma was a conceptual energy being.

maybe i could get bro resistant to all the hax displayed in the verse as well due to him being stated invulnerable to all the sorts of magics and science

Zhang the Mystic, who founded almost all the schools of Combat sorcery in the Nightside couldn't affect the Walking Man with his magic.

So, any combat magic, which is a long list, wouldn't work on the Walking Man, same with things like Durability negation, Spatial Manipulation, Time Manipulation, etc. (Razor Eddie's straight Razor), Mind Manipulation & Conceptual Manipulation (the Voice), BFR, Forcefields, Foreign energy, law manipulation, even real obstacles (The Adventurer's club defences)

 

[Rutæhh]

Yeah, the Fae are definitely below Merlin, given we know in Sinister Albion, he kills all the Fae as to prevent them ever becoming a threat to him.

that version of merlin embraced his true nature as the devil's only begotten son. shouldnt he be much stronger than an alive main universe merlin?

Nah, didn't absorb The Inscrutable Enigma per se, when it says its "base idea consumed by a bigger one" it means consumed as in to "use up" since the Inscrutable Enigma was a conceptual energy being.

i see. i should have read the fight again

Zhang the Mystic, who founded almost all the schools of Combat sorcery in the Nightside couldn't affect the Walking Man with his magic.

So, any combat magic, which is a long list, wouldn't work on the Walking Man, same with things like Durability negation, Spatial Manipulation, Time Manipulation, etc. (Razor Eddie's straight Razor), Mind Manipulation & Conceptual Manipulation (the Voice), BFR, Forcefields, Foreign energy, law manipulation, even real obstacles (The Adventurer's club defences)

I should probably make an entire Combat magic blog after im finished with the cosmology blog, considering the fact that some characters like Dead Boy are noted to use combat magics. The Droods are also noted to be resistant to most magics and supersciences as well so they should scale.maybe Molly Metcalf should have that as well since she looked all over for a way to defeat the Droods

 

[Rutæhh]

John said that he didnt have as many combat magic as Dead boy implying he has some.
he also stated that having an open mind in the Nightside allows for Powers and Dominations just to "walk in" so most of the characters in the Nightside should get baseline mind manip telepathy and madness manip type 2 resistance.
it should take me like a few days to finish the cosmology blog

 

[Udlmaster]

that version of merlin embraced his true nature as the devil's only begotten son. shouldnt he be much stronger than an alive main universe merlin?

He was stronger than a our Merlin, but he is still in the same ballpark, given the way Sinister Albion's Merlin describes "killing a Merlin" as if they're all relative.

i see. i should have read the fight again

I'd just finished the book again, so I had it fresh in my mind.

should probably make an entire Combat magic blog after im finished with the cosmology blog

I've already got the Cosmology blog covered, along with John's and Walker's profiles.

I've been working on it with Ultima and others so I know where everything stands.

The Droods are also noted to be resistant to most magics and supersciences as well so they should scale.maybe Molly Metcalf should have that as well since she looked all over for a way to defeat the Droods

Pretty sure Molly is very specifically a Combat Magician

John said that he didnt have as many combat magic as Dead boy implying he has some.

He always says he has "nasty tricks" but he definitely has some magic, he talks about it on occasion like the fire lighting magic.

he also stated that having an open mind in the Nightside allows for Powers and Dominations just to "walk in" so most of the characters in the Nightside should get baseline mind manip telepathy and madness manip type 2 resistance.

Nah, also not just Powers and Dominations, he just says "You never know who'll walk in."

The Major players, sure, but not everyone, since we know several people who have no defences are totally fine in the Nightside, such as Joanna, Cathy, Eamonn Mitchell and so on.

 

[Rutæhh]

He was stronger than a our Merlin, but he is still in the same ballpark, given the way Sinister Albion's Merlin describes "killing a Merlin" as if they're all relative.

so its more Sinister Albion is only slightly stronger not overwhelmingly so.

I've already got the Cosmology blog covered, along with John's and Walker's profiles.

I've been working on it with Ultima and others so I know where everything stands.

If ur doing John and Walker profile then ill stop my own one then. ill probably finish off the Walking Man and Razor Eddie's instead then. also i wanted to ask if the verse is 27D due to the Vampire Overlord statement.
ill also stop the cosmology blog i was making since you have already done it.

He always says he has "nasty tricks" but he definitely has some magic, he talks about it on occasion like the fire lighting magic.

this man john always bluffing about what he can actually do . yea but he most definitely has a decent amount of magic

Nah, also not just Powers and Dominations, he just says "You never know who'll walk in."

The Major players, sure, but not everyone, since we know several people who have no defences are totally fine in the Nightside, such as Joanna, Cathy, Eamonn Mitchell and so on.

anybody who fights actively within the Nightside should get these resistances considering what they face on the daily

 

[Rutæhh]

i wanted to also ask if Walkers Voice is CM2 since it was stated to be the very same Voice that brought everything into existence

 

[Udlmaster]

so its more Sinister Albion is only slightly stronger not overwhelmingly so.

Yeah, he also got different powers too by taking on the mantle as the Anti-Christ, such as being able to raise people from the dead truly.

also i wanted to ask if the verse is 27D due to the Vampire Overlord statement.

Yeah, the specific 27-D one is, but speaking with Ultima;

Higher Dimensional entities are (Their dimension), possibly 1-A, given that in the Nightside, dimensions are also "realness" as well.

I'll cover Lilith too, since she's a special case I'm working on with Ultima too.

this man john always bluffing about what he can actually do . yea but he most definitely has a decent amount of magic

Yeah, he also just lies about stuff all the time, like saying he doesn't know who made the Speaking gun in Just Another Judgement day despite knowing damn well it was Lilith.

“Who would want such a thing?” said Chandra. “Who ordered it made?”

“I don’t think anyone really knows,” I said. I looked at Mr. Usher, but he had nothing to say.

anybody who fights actively within the Nightside should get these resistances considering what they face on the daily

Yeah, all the major players should have it.

We know Suzie doesn't have mental protections in the same way John does, as we know in Agents of Light and Dark, but her mind being so literal and "singularly purposeful" lets her block out pretty much every mental attack bar some extremely powerful ones.

Larry and Dead Boy are dead, so you can't affect them with mind hax anyway.

Jessica is immune to mind affects because she wouldn't know it was happening and therefore would disbelieve it out of existence.

King of Skin and Count Video most likely do, and in the case of King of Skin, have as many layers of protections as his layers of skin.

 

[Rutæhh]

got some evidence of Heart Armour being weaker than Ethel's. should mean they are able to replicate the feats in the first book
also got some possible evidence for lightning timer Droods as well. this would probably be combat speed.

 

[Rutæhh]

i will probably ask for some help with some of the feats i want calced

 

[Rutæhh]

the Combat Sorcery Blog. done

i know its missing a bunch of abilities the fodders of the verse use but for the life of me i cant find them, maybe ill add more after the CRT
ima get the ball rolling

 

[Rutæhh]

did a calc just need to see if the math is right

I will also be trying to calc the lightning bolt feat for angelic droods and those who scale

 

[Rutæhh]

HHS+ isnt real anymore

 

[Udlmaster]

the Combat Sorcery Blog. done

i know its missing a bunch of abilities the fodders of the verse use but for the life of me i cant find them, maybe ill add more after the CRT
ima get the ball rolling

You missed a bunch of reality warping statements magic has in the Nightside, they often say things like "Rewriting reality to reach him"

 

[Rutæhh]

You missed a bunch of reality warping statements magic has in the Nightside, they often say things like "Rewriting reality to reach him"

i will have to look through the books again, i do remember that statement being used Just Another Judgement Day
I will add more abilities in the CRT im planning
I want to do some AP and Speed calcs first though

 

[Rutæhh]

Secret Names blog
i need to put more evidence for both parts but its coming together nicely

 

[Udlmaster]

Secret Names blog
i need to put more evidence for both parts but its coming together nicely

I would say the Hidden Name of everything should be type 1 rather than 2 and 3.

The Secret Name of all things are independent of the person they're tied to. You can kill the person but you wouldn't damage the Secret name, though if you destroyed the Hidden Name with, say, the Speaking Gun, that person never existed.

We know that this affects all of Time and Space too, like when John used the Gun to Uncreate itself, Lilith got her hip back because it never happened.

 

[Rutæhh]

I would say the Hidden Name of everything should be type 1 rather than 2 and 3.

The Secret Name of all things are independent of the person they're tied to. You can kill the person but you wouldn't damage the Secret name, though if you destroyed the Hidden Name with, say, the Speaking Gun, that person never existed.

Im not really convinced by this argument. I will have to go back and read some parts of the series again, I dont remember any feats or statements like this
Changed my mind on the matter. I do think their is an argument for Type 1 Secret Names
When one destroys an object, the Secret Name still exist as the Word of Creation still exists. This is due to the Secret Names being the mere echoes of the Words of Creation.

I changed my mind again, I am not really convinced

We know that this affects all of Time and Space too, like when John used the Gun to Uncreate itself, Lilith got her hip back because it never happened.

Considering how the Speaking Gun works this makes sense. It was stated it can make a thing "never happen"

 

[Rutæhh]

thoughts on this profile for Razor Eddie?

ive been debating wheter i should give him the same powers as other gods within the nightside since it said that he is inbetween a god and a man
and Dagon even states that they are both "too human"

 

[Udlmaster]

thoughts on this profile for Razor Eddie?

He should likely have Mid regeneration due to the Bugs likely having eat his brain a few times.

Also, I hate that image. I know there's basically no art work for Eddie, including Fan work, but I'd rather have none than bad ones.

I changed my mind again, I am not really convinced

We know that Transient beings in the Nightside are their whole concept manifest, for example, we know that Lady Luck does actually have an interest in the Nightside due to her own concept working strangely there (even though Lilith hijacked that particular fact for her own ends)

We also know that Old Father Time, who is Time itself and everything else about time such as the Chronoflow, knows when Timeslips show up because their in his domain, and we know he's one of the few people who can do that.

When a being is unspoken by The Speaking Gun, it completely undoes everything you are, you can't defend against it. And like I said with Lilith, she got her rib back, meaning it completely undid everything you were, you yourself ceased to be. Type 2 or 3 wouldn't have that effect.

 

[Rutæhh]

He should likely have Mid regeneration due to the Bugs likely having eat his brain a few times.

i think High-Mid should be more accurate since he would have been eaten into chunks by the larva

Also, I hate that image. I know there's basically no art work for Eddie, including Fan work, but I'd rather have none than bad ones.

I quite like it When it comes to art work Nightside fans are in-between a rock and a hard place


this is seriously the only two artworks on eddie i could find

We know that Transient beings in the Nightside are their whole concept manifest, for example, we know that Lady Luck does actually have an interest in the Nightside due to her own concept working strangely there (even though Lilith hijacked that particular fact for her own ends)

Was she killed? if so then transient beings can easily be Type 1 concepts

When a being is unspoken by The Speaking Gun, it completely undoes everything you are, you can't defend against it. And like I said with Lilith, she got her rib back, meaning it completely undid everything you were, you yourself ceased to be.

Seeing that your entire history is erased when ones Secret Name is erased due to being unmade/uncreated but when u simply die this doesnt happen it would be type 1 as this would naturally contradict what type 2 says

Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept. In this way, an abstract dependent concept can be destroyed by destroying all objects of the concept, restored by re-making an object of a previously existent concept, or changed by changing all objects of the concept across reality.

 

[Rutæhh]

After doing some calcs for the Greenverse i will probably make a list of all the abilities shown throughout the series since a few characters like Lilith, Angels, demons and the Walking Man are stated to be resistant to everything within the verse.

 

[Rutæhh]

made a list of all the things I want to do for the verse

 

[Udlmaster]

i think High-Mid should be more accurate since he would have been eaten into chunks by the larva

Nah, he still had a body since John was able to not only hold and cradle his dead body but also cut his throat.

When it comes to art work Nightside fans are in-between a rock and a hard place

I know, it sucks. But like I said, I'd rather no image be available than bad ones. (Bad not in terms of artwork but bad in 'misrepresents the character')

Was she killed? if so then transient beings can easily be Type 1 concepts

Nah, we actually never see a Transient being die.

We do see the Gods die a few times, as they're ideas incarnate, and we know Jeb, the God of Creationism, despite being debunked out of existence continues to exist and will re-appear in a new form later on.

Seeing that your entire history is erased when ones Secret Name is erased due to being unmade/uncreated but when u simply die this doesnt happen it would be type 1 as this would naturally contradict what type 2 says

Yeah.

 

[Rutæhh]

Next thing on the agenda is immeasurable speed for Angels, Demons and beings from Outside
Considering that lesser angels such as Angelic Droods are able to fly through the Chronoflow and beings from Outside see the future as another direction to move in it should be pretty simple