Some Ups and Downs for Touhou Project

[OnsokunoSonic]

Yessir.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Can someone close the thread then? The page already got accepted ages ago lmao.

 

[Malomtek]

If we're talking about this I want to be able to look into it, especially when we have mistranslations and misinterpretations.

That honestly seems to be a sticking point in general with Japanese-language media (which I estimate is about 65% of the content here), so much so that I believe we need an "accurate/approved translations" metathread right now to sort all this stuff out.

So the Heaven that Suika break isn't the Heaven that Tenshi lives in?

When you put it like that, the answer is obviously "NO". I cannot imagine an oni just up and nuking and recreating celestial's home without consequence.

 

[Mobi2]

That honestly seems to be a sticking point in general with Japanese-language media (which I estimate is about 65% of the content here), so much so that I believe we need an "accurate/approved translations" metathread right now to sort all this stuff out.


When you put it like that, the answer is obviously "NO". I cannot imagine an oni just up and nuking and recreating celestial's home without consequence.

She just went and beat up Tenshi instead for land in heaven which is kinda funny.

 

[Malomtek]

I want this thread closed as well, but before it's closed...

In what way? If I'm interpreting it wrong, then what's the correct interpretation?

That the connection between spatial and temporal manipulation holds even for "single moments of time", and that exempting "single moments of time" from such is arbitrary as hell.

Ah yes, because 'Reisen used a magic door sealing ability that has never been shown or mentioned anywhere else with infinite range despite having planetary range at best' is so much more reasonable than 'she closed all the doors really fast'.

Given what Promestein has already said on the subject of this corridor "feat", it honestly might as well be.

Uh, because they would have nowhere left to travel to? They found their target, why would they need to go anywhere else? And infinite speed doesn't require you to travel dimensions or whatever, I have no idea where you're getting that from.

I'm talking about fights, COMBAT.

The mechanics have been explained to the best of my ability. If you genuinely believe that Reisen has access to one very unique ability with universal range that applies only to that specific ability, then I can't say anything to convince you. And Kaguya having infinite speed is far from NLF, given the way we treat most touhou feats already. Extrapolating where there is little evidence is sort of a necessity for this verse.

Well something has to explain the unique and specific "sealing", and its sure as shit not just slamming down doors.

And no, I'm not getting feats from lyrics because touhou songs don't have lyrics (except for Kids's Festival ~ Innocent Treasures, but I doubt we'll ever get to see them). I'm using the title of a song to point out how one of the statements supposedly 'debunking' Kaguya's speed in contradictory.

I'm pretty sure I came across a few Touhou songs (like one that referenced Steven Hawking) that had lyrics. But that's all tangential, as neither song lyrics or titles prove anything feats-wise.

And since infinite speed 2hu has been rejected, all I can do is praise the heavens that truth has prevailed and goofiness has been destroyed.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Eh, since this thread isn't closed, what do you guys say if we replace the old SSiB Cover with this one?

 

[Mobi2]

that looks fine it's a lot cleaner

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

And since infinite speed 2hu has been rejected, all I can do is praise the heavens that truth has prevailed and goofiness has been destroyed.

Calm down man, you're not Ben Shapiro. Though you'd probably be more tolerable if you were

Anyways, as long as I live, the dream of infinite speed touhou ain't dead.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Watch we achieve immeasurable speed Sakuya.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Watch we achieve immeasurable speed Sakuya.

Shhh

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

I mean we can still get it, as long as someone crosses the entirety of Heaven, Hell or the Netherworld in one go, that already proven to be infinite in size and distance

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Wait a minute, doesn't one of Youmu's spell cards do that?

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Is the dream alive?
Whats the context for this spell card and how does it work? Do people dodge this spell?

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Wait a minute, doesn't one of Youmu's spell cards do that?

Youmu's card cover the whole Saigyoji Garden if I remembered correctly.

It's on the Touhou Explanation Page.
Btw don't forget to add Doremy to that page.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Is the dream alive?
Whats the context for this spell card and how does it work? Do people dodge this spell?

Yes.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

The garden itself (probably) isn't infinite, but by drawing power from the moon it's width is infinite.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

The garden itself (probably) isn't infinite, but by drawing power from the moon it's width is infinite.

Yeah, it's categorized as range

Oh Lord...

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

The dream's alive again
I'm sorry I tried to debunk Infinite speed Touhou initially but I had to be impartial

But this one seems pretty blatant so, I think this one works.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

What'd I tell you? As long as I live, infinite speed Touhou ain't dead. Fitting considering how much I love Mokou.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

So is someone gonna tell Prom or...

Fitting considering how much I love Mokou.

Lucky you. While I do like some of the girls, like Yukari, my favorite is the only real relevant male in the verse, Rinnosuke. And he obviously doesn't scale haha.

 

[Malomtek]

I'm pretty sure that moon slash nonsense was settled as just range and not speed. I have no idea how "infinitely expanding slash width" translates to "infinite speed", and it looks like an infinitely expanding sword beam, if anything, so whatever speed it might have wouldn't scale to Youmu anyway.

Calm down man, you're not Ben Shapiro. Though you'd probably be more tolerable if you were

Why are you bringing your politics into this?

Anyways, as long as I live, the dream of infinite speed touhou ain't dead.

And by "dream", I assume you mean "infertile and ethereal abstraction with no basis in truth or reality whatsoever".

In that case, yeah, I guess you'll forever be delusional.

 

[Urshani]

you know what i'll let fujiwara handle this

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Yeah, I'm not gonna even justify this with a response.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

I'm pretty sure that moon slash nonsense was settled as just range and not speed. I have no idea how "infinitely expanding slash width" translates to "infinite speed", and it looks like an infinitely expanding sword beam, if anything, so whatever speed it might have wouldn't scale to Youmu anyway.

How does it not scale? If the sword slash has infinite expansion, it means that the slash is also moving infinitely right? Like how space expands? When space expands, it moves. So yes it is range, but this just means dodging it should mean they scale to the slash? Since its expanding infinitely, its moving through an infinite space, so to dodge it would be to react to this expansion.

Am I right or am I wrong? I do admit saying "infinite width" is more difficult to understand than simply "crossed an infinite length/distance", but couldn't this still relate to speed in a way?

 

[Guardian_Doge]

In that case, yeah, I guess you'll forever be delusional.

What is with your attitude?? Why is a fictionality’s rating so important to you. Let Fujiwara enjoy their scaling, you seriously do have a problem to be so pressed about this. I genuinely hope you improve yourself because I’m telling you right now that condescending behavior you’ve displayed through your past messages is just ridiculous, forget scaling at this point, I don’t care if I’m not moderator either, drop it.

 

[Urshani]

What is with your attitude?? Why is a fictionality’s rating so important to you. Let Fujiwara enjoy their scaling, you seriously do have a problem to be so pressed about this. I genuinely hope you improve yourself because I’m telling you right now that condescending behavior you’ve displayed through your past messages is just ridiculous, forget scaling at this point, I don’t care if I’m not moderator either, drop it.

^

 

[Promestein]

Yeah, one last warning.

 

[Urshani]

Yeah, one last warning.

for who?

 

[Malomtek]

How does it not scale? If the sword slash has infinite expansion, it means that the slash is also moving infinitely right? Like how space expands? When space expands, it moves. So yes it is range, but this just means dodging it should mean they scale to the slash? Since its expanding infinitely, its moving through an infinite space, so to dodge it would be to react to this expansion.

Just because the sword slash itself expands to infinite width doesn't mean that the slash itself is moving infinitely fast, or that the slash itself expands at an infinite rate.

A hypothetical expanding cube can expand infinitely without itself moving an inch, or even the expansion itself occurring at an infinitely fast speed.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

I see. That's fair. Thanks for the concise explanation. That's yet another possible Infinite speed feat gone then. Too bad.

We should really close this thread now, by the way. 2-C's already accepted and even if we are to find some more potential speed feats, we should cover them elsewhere.

 

[Malomtek]

What is with your attitude?? Why is a fictionality’s rating so important to you. Let Fujiwara enjoy their scaling, you seriously do have a problem to be so pressed about this. I genuinely hope you improve yourself because I’m telling you right now that condescending behavior you’ve displayed through your past messages is just ridiculous, forget scaling at this point, I don’t care if I’m not moderator either, drop it.

I'm just having fun here. And I'm not trying to be condescending, rude, or mean here, but this is a forum for "accurate" character indexing (at least ostensibly), not "personal" character indexing. There is already have a forum/wiki for that, it's called the Character Stats and Profiles Wiki, to which @FujiwaraYesMokou might find suitable for her own tastes and what not.

I hope I'm not being too harsh here, @Promestein.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Just because the sword slash itself expands to infinite width doesn't mean that the slash itself is moving infinitely fast, or that the slash itself expands at an infinite rate.

A hypothetical expanding cube can expand infinitely without itself moving an inch, or even the expansion itself occurring at an infinitely fast speed.

What? For it to reach an infinite distance in a finite period of time, it'd have to be moving infinitely fast. If it weren't, it'd never be able to reach infinity.

And can you explain the cube thing? It's impossible for something to grow in size without some rate of expansion. And yes, just because something is expanding does not inherently mean it's moving infinitely fast. But for it to reach a point infinitely far away in a finite amount of time, as Youmu's attack does, it'd have to be moving at those speeds, otherwise 'infinity' would never be reached.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Its like this I think:

The universe expands infinitely in width, but not at an infinite speed. So the cube analogy is basically like it is our universe. It expands infinitely, but not at an infinite speed.

At least, thats what I assume @Malomtek meant.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

But that doesn't apply to what we're talking about here. Yes, Youmu's attack does expand to an infinite width, but it does so in a very short period of time. The universe has been expanding for billions of years, and it's not gonna stop anytime soon. These are two completely different things that should not be compared.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Do we have definitively proof it covers an infinite distance in an instant?

It'd be kinda funny that after each of Youmu's swings, even long after the fight's over, her swords swings are still travelling and expanding across the world.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Not really, but if the attack just kept going and going for an infinite number of years without reaching 'infinity' and then disappearing, that'd cause huge issues for Gensokyo as a whole. If that's really what was happening, you'd think other characters would make a big deal out of it.

Tbh, it doesn't matter how long it takes to reach an infinite width. As long as that period of time isn't infinity, it's moving infinitely fast.

 

[Malomtek]

What? For it to reach an infinite distance in a finite period of time, it'd have to be moving infinitely fast. If it weren't, it'd never be able to reach infinity.

Well it didn't say the sword swing itself was moving at infinite speed, just that its "width" was expanding to infinity, which is not at all intrinsically tied to the speed of the slash itself.

The speed of a sword slash in itself, and the size or even expansion of the slash's "width", have no causal correlation, or even particular relationship, whatsoever.

And can you explain the cube thing? It's impossible for something to grow in size without some rate of expansion. And yes, just because something is expanding does not inherently mean it's moving infinitely fast. But for it to reach a point infinitely far away in a finite amount of time, as Youmu's attack does, it'd have to be moving at those speeds, otherwise 'infinity' would never be reached.

But that doesn't apply to what we're talking about here. Yes, Youmu's attack does expand to an infinite width, but it does so in a very short period of time. The universe has been expanding for billions of years, and it's not gonna stop anytime soon. These are two completely different things that should not be compared.

I direct you to the statement above.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It's not the sword swing by itself that the character's are dodging, it's the attack as a whole, which includes the infinitely expanding part. Nowhere did I say that Youmu's physical attacks with her swords can reach those speeds, it's the projectiles they create, which, if you've ever seen any Touhou gameplay at all, are the part that needs to be dodged. Which, just to reiterate, includes the infinitely expanding part.

It's late and I need to go to bed, so I hope this satisfies you. I know it won't, but I can at least hope.

If anyone wants to continue to argue on the behalf of infinite speed, please feel free to do so.

 

[AKM sama]

Thanks for helping out Prom.

What is left to do here?

 

[Shmooply]

What is left to do here?

We still need to come up with a proper scaling chain IIRC, and of course staff members that are fine with the whole infinite speed stuff.