Some speed calcs.

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

^^It's even worse since it's a movie and it has many time constraints. As I said, whethe be it an anime or anime movie Cinematic time Ôëá real time

Just looking forward to see if admins accept cinematic time or not. Accepting such calc might hurt the credibility of this site.

It's not an anime movie it's not adaptation of anything it's a movie written by the author....

And Uh their looking over it anyways however I'm pretty sure cinematic timeframes and calcs are more legit than manga ones given that authors are inconsistent with their drawings and timeframes are estimated....

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

No they're not more legit, since the estimation for time in manga is often consistent. You can't stall manga time with still frames to stretch a scene. One Piece has bad repuatation for doing this. Cinematic time varies for every scene in every movie and anime. It all depends on the importance of the scene or time constraints.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

That actually can apply to manga as well also opposed to movies manga pixel scaling is a lot of times inconsistent because the author doesnt draw to scale as we all know.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Of course it can happen to manga, that's why many people hate pixel scaling. But it's nowhere as bad as cinematic time abuse which vary from scene to scene. Naruto punching Toneri was shown in slow motion for cinematic effect, to increase visual appeal. If you want you can decrease Naruto's striking speed by using that scene. We can't be partial and pick a scene as we like

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

No naruto punched toneri and it took some time for the impact of his blow to send him flying he was even talking during most of it as well.And no not at all...

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

You have a faulty assumption that cinematic time becomes the same as real time if there is no talking. There is no proof of that. I have no clue how anybody can reach that conclusion. Not all slow motion fight scenes have dialogues in them. As I said, time in animated media is changed accordingly for visual appeal. When Toneri took away Naruto's chakra it appeared he was falling very slowly, there was no speech in that scene.

Cinematic time abuse, acceleration due to gravity changed (!) because to add drama

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

You mean a person won't fall from the sky fast while they're likely kilometers away from the ground?

And the main issue here is the third calc which is about Madara and the others first of all we'll resume the validity of the second calc later .

I believe I can prove it so either way even without the timeframe so we'll see tired now so later.

 

[FinalBattleX01]

I really don't get why people are making such a issue out of cinematic time right now. Even if we were to completely disregard the fact that there was no evidence of time distortion and the fact that the time-frame would have to be short seeing as Toneri was in the middle of that mutation/overload, we have already accepted calcs. that use arbitrarily assumed timeframes, which are in no way more reliable than this.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, several wrongs do not make a right.

 

[FinalBattleX01]

And I am in full agreement, but since this site seems to not acknowledge these things as "wrong" then this is not a reason to claim this calc. invalid.

The way I see it, we either accept this as legit (bear in mind that I don't mean accept the entire calc. as legit, only the timeframe aspect of it), or we go back and reevaluate previous calcs.

 

[Antvasima]

Which calculations would that be? However, we do not have the manpower to do lots of work on your say-so, and tend to evaluate on a case-by-case basis.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Well Kkapoios just did a calc for the 3rd one I think. Gonna post it here just incase people didn't see. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kkapoios/Madara's_speed_feat

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Well Kkapoios just did a calc for the 3rd one I think. Gonna post it here just incase people didn't see. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kkapoios/Madara's_speed_feat

Thx

 

[KuuIchigo]

Well Kkapoios just did a calc for the 3rd one I think. Gonna post it here just incase people didn't see. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kkapoios/Madara's_speed_feat

Thx

You're welcome.

 

[FinalBattleX01]

@Antvasima

As someone mentioned earlier, the Mimihagi calc. I also believe some Naruto speed calcs. did it (plus there's the Toneri sword thing which is pretty much the exact same situation). Plus there's the calcs for any animated series ever that featured a timeframe...

You misunderstand me, I'm not saying we should literally go back and edit every calc that has ever done this (since like you said, not enough manpower). I'm just talking from a theoretical point of view that all verses and calcs should be treated equally.

 

[Antvasima]

We cannot treat all of them equally. We do not have any set in stone standards regarding this, and all evaluations are done with different participants on a case-by-case basis. Personally, I just listen to the participants, and go with what seems to make the most sense. Also, Mimihagi was not based on cinematic time. It has not even been animated yet.

 

[FinalBattleX01]

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me. Just because we have to examine them on a case-by-case basis doesn't mean we can't be fair about it. The lack of "set in stone standards" is also hardly a reason as to why we can't be fair. These "different participants" (i.e. anyone discussing on this thread) could review past calcs. of a similar feat/situation and reach a conclusion depending on what has happened in the past (unless of course we agree that what happened in the past was wrong). The thing is, this whole case-by-case basis thing makes no sense at the moment. How is this case any less reliable than previous cases? That's why I'm claiming we aren't being fair.

As for the Mimihagi, I wasn't talking about cinematic time. I was talking about the fact that we arbitrarily assumed a time frame with no factual basis and yet it was accepted. And now we have this calc. that seems to have a legit timeframe with very little indication of cinematic time being doubted.

But, I obviously can't change how this wiki works so yeah, this is just my two cents. Since everyone else thinks that the way we currently do things is fine then who am I to disagree?

 

[LordAizenSama]

@finalbattle we used 20 minutes as a timeframe because theres no way it could of possibly been longer than that. also about that theres another thread that i believe fireboy2000 made today or yesterday, which linked to a site that has a timeframe of 5 seconds for mimihagi, although he put it in the wrong section..

 

[Antvasima]

The point is that I do so many thousands of different things in this wiki that I don't remember the specifics of most previous instances. I have to listen to the contributors and see who seems to make the most sense. In this case I have great respect for DontTalk's intelligence and common sense, and tend to go with what he thinks if what he says seems reasonable.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Donttalk is right for the most part but the moon was obviously drawn bigger because Toneri was pulling it to the earth the whole time that was the main plot point of the whole movie.Anyways given what I've seen the distance between Toneri and the earth and the moon to earth while Naruto and Toneri were fighting I believe even with the lowest end timeframe it would still be a sub relativistic feat as far as I know so we'll see either way you look at it seems to be a good upgrade regardless.

 

[FinalBattleX01]

@LordAizenSama

Why 20mins though? Why not 19? Why not 15? Why not a millisecond? I think you can see what I'm getting at here. We have no background information that will let us assume a reasonable timeframe besides "I think its this much". This is not how a calculation should work (in my opinion anyway).

@Antvasima

And I don't blame you. I recognise that you do an ungodly amount of work on this wiki and have nothing but the utmost respect for that. Listening to what others have to say is certainly the correct way to do things. All I'm saying is that we have a precedent of a calc. such as this being accepted and we have no good reason (that I or someone else hasn't already addressed) to doubt it.

 

[LordAizenSama]

I know what you're getting at, but 20 minutes is as much of a lowball as you can get.unless you'd rather it stay unquantifyable. if DontTalk finds it acceptable than it should be fine for anyones standards imo

 

[GrobZone]

I agree with FinalBattleX01, I don't know why we're making such a fuss about cinematic time, hell people accepted Yhwach and the Soul King as a Planet Level(+) literally without any single piece of "legit" information nor confirmation, what difference would it make if this was drawn in manga format? We'd simply get two panels, one where Naruto is jumping, and the other one where he's touching Toneri, Kishimoto was sitting right next to the guys when they were making this movie, I think his point was clear there. Debunking this calculator just because of the cinematic time seems stupid to me, maybe we can't prove for sure it's real time, but we can't either prove it's cinematic time.

 

[LordAizenSama]

^Yhwach/Soulking is only possibly planet level due to him stopping the shaking which would of destroyed 4 realms. hes not a solid planet level char...yet

 

[GrobZone]

Well that's my talk, why can't we say Naruto is "Possibly Sub-Relativistic"?

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Is Illuminati the only calcers that hasn't posted his response yet?

 

[LordAizenSama]

you are comparing something that requires a calc to prove, to something that doesn't require a calc to prove. theres a big difference.

 

[GrobZone]

I don't fully agree with that, not anywhere did we see that Yhwach caused a force of 58 zettatons yet we say he is possibly Planet Level, we've seen Naruto crossing the Earth's diameter but we aren't sure if he did it in 4 seconds or who knows how much, it's not confirmed, but it's plausible just like Yhwach

 

[LordAizenSama]

well logically, how else do you stop something from destroying 4 realms than having great enough power to stop it. it is not as plausable as yhwach, you don't watch naruto crossing the earth and go instantlyh yeah thats mach 10523 or whatever, he crossed that in like, this many seconds!

really you are just comparing 2 way different things. and again, Possibly Planet level for that reason.

 

[GrobZone]

Honestly I still see no difference, "Possibly" means it's possible but it's just as much impossible, if we'd go by your logic like that Yhwach wouldn't even need "Possibly", I can't prove Naruto passed the Earth's diameter in 4 seconds, but you can't prove he didn't, with what leaves us that, that means it's possible just as much it's impossible (Possibly).

 

[LordAizenSama]

well i'm sorry but if you don't get that, no point continuing this discussion

 

[GrobZone]

So... what about this calculator? Are we waiting for Donttalk's comment on Swordslayer99's latest statement?

 

[Antvasima]

Yes.

However, it should be noted that I am personally neutral regarding the issue of cinematic time. I think that it probably depends from case to case, and if we have used it elsewhere, no time distortion was apparent, and the OBD accepted it for this instance, it does seem reliable enough for me to turn very uncertain.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Well OBD isn't always right and I personally see all cinematic timeframe completely unreliable, as there is no proof that the timeframe for that scene = real time.

 

[Sheoth]

Ah. I see the Naruto/Bleach debates rage on. Why is One Piece shunned so heavily? Shame on you VSB community.

Joking aside, here is my stance on the issue:

I don't see the problem with the use of cinematic time in this instance. Using timing from any anime/movie that is not an adaptation of a book or manga should be acceptable most of the time unless it contradicts the showings of the source material(Note: I said MOST of the time). In this case, the movie is stand alone and separate from the manga, so we have no way to calculate the timeframe without actually watching it, meaning it is essentially the only way. Since it doesn't (to my knowledge) display anything entirely outside the realm of possibilities of Naruto, then I am fine with this upgrade (assuming all of the calculations involved aren't flawed).

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

^^One Piece and Fairy Tail don't have enough hax and DC to compete with Naruto and Bleach

I have no problem with other calcs but I want you guys to realize that cinematic time calc apparently are not accepted in most of the forums i visited (t5, spacebattles, comicvine, animevice, reddit etc). We want our calc acceptable to others as well right? I am no calc expert but seeing how time is stretched and contracted in animated media (while making it look 'normal') I find it entirely unreliable. This is just my personal opinion, I would argue anymore (already stated everything above)

 

[Antvasima]

All right, I am also starting to lean in this direction. Would the feat need to be recalculated from Gallavant's calc, or is it acceptable as it is?

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

All right, I am also starting to lean in this direction. Would the feat need to be recalculated from Gallavant's calc, or is it acceptable as it is?

It's not dependent on Gallavants scale it's got nothing to do with the shinju three.So it should be as acceptable as it is.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I have asked the other staff members for input, so let's wait to see what they think.

 

[Quincy_Emperor]

It does need changing, since he used the Diameter of Naruto's earth and I think that was redone, correct me if I was wrong.

Also, this cannot be a speed feat.


Watch at the same time specified in the calc. Toneri has that eruption of rock underneath him occur and he is shown to be sent flying upwards across the Earth's shadow against his own wishes. He is not flying or moving into the Suns Light by his own will.

He was flung at great speed by that eruption and was even reaching down as though he wanted to return and continued to stay face down the entire time, he was not flying. I can pretty much guarantee he was flung.