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Some speed calcs.

Wasn't Toneri's sword calced at and generally accepted by this site: @Mach 10 000 in extension speed not a few moments before? Why is the possibility of outliers even being discussed (especially considering this is after a timeskip where ridiculous feats are expected?
 
I do, since it's Mach 1700...

Naruto and Sasuke could keep up with Obito and especially Madara, they can be scaled to this. Now show me another calc for them that is not Sub Rel in a massive jump.
 
Yeah, but that feat is for the extension of an attack.and not Toneri himself, when Naruto reacted to it, he did so from a distance, significantly reducing the reaction time and combat speed to counter it. Not to mention the second instance was when he knew how it was performed.
 
TheMightyRegulator said:
Wasn't Toneri's sword calced at and generally accepted by this site: @Mach 10 000 in extension speed not a few moments before? Why is the possibility of outliers even being discussed (especially considering this is after a timeskip where ridiculous feats are expected?
Click to expand...
I'm wondering the exact same thing.
 
What I meant with the thread is that the first 2 calcs do not work, because the movie uses cinematic time, because the moons size is inconsistent over the movie and because not the whole diameter would have to be crossed, because of angle of shadow matters.


For the second as said narutos author likes drawing very large moons. If you scale the moon from an on earth perspective you get it only being about 2.5 earth radii away or something. So I do not know how serious I should take angsizing from that perspective if he moon in general is drawn too large.
 
Canon or not, cinematic and theatrical time is still a factor, each second doesn't mean that a second has passed within the thing we are watching. Just like times between Manga panels can be seconds to hours, the same can be said for cuts in Movies and different shots. it really is unreliable.
 
DontTalk said:
What I meant with the thread is that the first 2 calcs do not work, because the movie uses cinematic time, because the moons size is inconsistent over the movie and because not the whole diameter would have to be crossed, because of angle of shadow matters.


For the second as said narutos author likes drawing very large moons. If you scale the moon from an on earth perspective you get it only being about 2.5 earth radii away or something. So I do not know how serious I should take angsizing from that perspective if he moon in general is drawn too large.
Click to expand...
To activate infinite tsukuyomi Madara had to be near the moon however the context supports it as well I see your point however and as for the first one Naruto said "I wont let the earth be destroyed" all while doing the feat so cinematic timing or not the timeframe should be accurate.
 
I think that DontTalk makes sense.
 
DontTalk said:
What I meant with the thread is that the first 2 calcs do not work, because the movie uses cinematic time, because the moons size is inconsistent over the movie and because not the whole diameter would have to be crossed, because of angle of shadow matters.

For the second as said narutos author likes drawing very large moons. If you scale the moon from an on earth perspective you get it only being about 2.5 earth radii away or something. So I do not know how serious I should take angsizing from that perspective if he moon in general is drawn too large.
Click to expand...
The first calc has already been debunked. The second calc seems more legitimate as when we were shown the full view of the Moon there was no light, hence we know it's a total lunar eclipse meaning the diameter would have to be cleared.

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Further, Naruto stated something during the feat so the time limit should be fine.
 
Uh does that really matter for the Naruto surging forward calc at all?

If the scaling is correct and the timeframe legit given he said one sentence during the whole thing then isn't that accurate at the least for now?
 
For the naruto surging forward calc? That is already debunked by the fact that the animators randomly changed the earth size in the background during the whole movie.
 
Well, the issue seems to have been resolved then.
 
DontTalk said:
For the naruto surging forward calc? That is already debunked by the fact that the animators randomly changed the earth size in the background during the whole movie.
Click to expand...
Wait if you're referring to the distance well Toneri was pulling the moon to the earth during most of the movie until Naruto defeated him..
 
Hm. I...didn't think of that but that particular calc is still busted unless you can prove Naruto and Toneri travelled a distance of the Earth's diameter.
 
About the earth size: Look at what I wrote in the last thread were we talked about this.

About the latter calc:

This calc is the most solid one, even through the generally large drawn moon leaves me uncertain. The perspective of having a person infront of the moon like that is a popular one as well... Then again you said it was stated that madara had to be close to the moon, then again close is a very relative statement. So as said I am uncertain, but hey there are at least two other active members of the calc group, so lets just wait for a second opinion from them.
 
I believe that was mentioned the reason being astronomy check the calc.It was overlooked that's why it got accepted.
 
DontTalk said:
About the earth size: Look at what I wrote in the last thread were we talked about this.

About the latter calc:

This calc is the most solid one, even through the generally large drawn moon leaves me uncertain. The perspective of having a person infront of the moon like that is a popular one as well... Then again you said it was stated that madara had to be close to the moon, then again close is a very relative statement. So as said I am uncertain, but hey there are at least two other active members of the calc group, so lets just wait for a second opinion from them.
Click to expand...
Alright then that seems fine.Thx anyways
 
A bit late but who cares.

The only one i find legit is the 3rd one which uses numbers from waka's calc and not our accepted values so i will do the calc now and post it in around 15 to 20 min.
 
Personally, the one I find legit is the second one. The other ones... eeehhhh, I guess I'll need to look at them some more to form a proper opinion...

Anyways, it would seem there are a few recurring arguments as to why the second one is wrong that I will attempt to address:

-Cinematic time\artistic license: Firstly, there is no indication that there was any time distortion between the shots (e.g. there was no slow motion, no speed up, no weird close ups e.t.c), it was just Naruto jumping, Shikamaru saying something and then Naruto arriving to Toneri. I personally interpret that as in the time it took for Shika to warn Naruto, he had already reached Toneri as opposed to some weird time change. If there was straight up slow-mo like when Naruto punched Toneri then by all means doubt it, but not in this case. Furthermore, is it really fair to second guess pretty much every feat in the movie just because it is in animated format even though we have no concrete evidence to doubt it? I mean we know its canon. What about a series who's canon only exists in said animated format (e.g. RWBY)? Do they not have a right to calcs cuz every time-frame can be chalked up to "cinematic timing"? How is this any worse than straight up arbitrarily assuming time-frames for a calc (like we do for some of our accepted calcs)?

-Travel speed as opposed to combat speed: under normal circumstances I would agree that this is an issue, but it appears that some of our accepted calcs as of late (e.g. someone mentioned the Mimihagi calc.) have ignored this distinction. Letting it slide for them and making a big fuss out of it now seems like a double standard to me.

-The Earth's size/distance is inconsistent: Much like the last point, size inconsistences are not usually taken into account for calcs as it is physically impossible for the author/animator to draw things on the exact same scale every time. We tend to take the clearest, cleanest version of the object and personaly I don't think the Earth's size/distance gets any clearer than in the shot we already have. Now, if there is a size inconsistency in the exact same shot, then yes there would be a problem, but not in this case. Besides, for this calc the only thing that matters is that Toneri (and by extension Naruto) traveled from sunlight-shadow-sunlight, and seeing as he was moving in a straight line across the diameter of he Earth, size inconsistency wouldn't influence the calc. anyway.

-Its an outlier: now this one I don't understand. Firstly, the Narutoverse has already breached "sub-rel" speeds with Toneri's sword so I don't see why this is such a shock. Secondly, this would only apply to people of The Last Naruto's level (which means most God-Tiers and some top,Top Tiers) so no Tier discrepancy is created. Thirdly, the current Naruto speed calc. (besides Toneri's sword) that put the God Tiers at Mach 1700 (iirc) applies more concretely to people like 1-Rinnegan Madara. Then you have people like Guy who could completely outspeed him, then theres people like Sasuke who were even faster, and then you have Kaguya who is even faster than that. Basically what I'm saying is that our current calc. is valid but is an absolute low end that doesn't really accurately represent the speed of everyone. Besides, this was a time-skip so power-ups are to be expected, no? Finally, while it is a fairly steep upgrade in Movement Speed for the concerned characters, its not like its unheard of. I mean Yhwach went from "small continent level" to "At least Moon level" due to a calc and no one batted an eyelid. We even took the high end. And you can be certain that when Ichigo goes from "MH" to "sub-rel" (for inevitably matching Yhwach at least to an extent) no one is going to have an issue with that even though the calc that created the "sub-rel" rating has an assumed time-frame (no offence to the calc. or its maker) which imho is no different than what we are dealing with right now.

To summarise, I personally think the 2nd one is legit and most arguments against it (besides the cinematic time argument, which while being a proper concern has no basis) are simple nitpicks. It would seem that this was also the concensus of the OBD (not saying that they are always right but I agree with them this time). I'll reserve judgement on the other calcs for now and will examine them some more to see if I can form a proper opinion on them. Sorry about the wall of text but might as well be thorough so I don't have to post a dozen different messages explaining my reasoning. Anyways, I'm probably going to bed now, good night guys.

p.s. I mean no offence to RWBY or Bleach and any related caculations/calculation group members. I only mentioned those particular verses cuz they were the first thing I could come up with that is related to my points...
 
"1-Rinnegan Madara. Then you have people like Guy who could completely outspeed him, then theres people like Sasuke who were even faster, and then you have Kaguya who is even faster than that."


Where are the numbers? Like, it's okay to say "This character is faster", "This character outspeeds this character". Mach 2000 characters would outspeed mach 1500 characters and Mach 2500 would outspeed a mach 2000 character.


We need numbers to show whether or not these God Tiers were approaching Mach's that make these not outliers.


Hell, a calc member just redid the Madara one from Mach 10000 to Mach 2149. Now, is there any other calc for the Great Ninja War that helps this not be an outlier.


Regarding the Yhwach point, it cannot physically be an outlier since he didn't perform the feat, he took the power of a being who can perform the feat and made the speed his own-like The Flash far outspeeding himself via his speed stealing.

Madara just popped a few eyes in and got more Occular Power. I've never seen Occular power increase speed, reactions perhaps? Correct me if I am wrong.

The same concept applies to Yhwach's DC feat, it was a recalc of an old one and it was a feat he performed prior to absorbing the Soul King who maintains Earth and several more dimensions. And the feat closest to that is casual Small Continent, while sealed and bound with reduced Reiatsu.


I'lll be honest, Yhwach has shown his ability grants him all the abilities of the thing he absorbs (Epithets he gives out, Mimihagi and the Soul King) whilst Madara only placed eyes in his skull and increased his occular power and power of occular originating techniques- like Chibaku Tensei and Limbo. It hasn't shown to increase speed at all.


Sorry for the rant mate.
 
Sighs

What exactly does God tiers approaching sub relativistic have anything to do with it.Characters go from hypersonic speeds to FTL upon acquiring power you can't call things outliers because you feel like it.Same goes for DC a character can go from tier 8 to 2 if the author gives reasoning in between said jump.
 
Kishimoto's reasoning is placing a few eyes in and there are no calcs that show how much faster each character is. If every other feat is low MHS+ and then it's Sub Rel without reasonable explanation, there is a problem.


Absorbing another being= Legit honestly

Increasing your occular power and occular techniques: I really don't see it.

Becomming the Ten Tails Jinchuriki= Yes

Unlocking Chakra gates= Yes.
 
Absorbing the shinju three where all power of the entire verse originated from is not legit???

The amount of bs you can come up with is beyond ridiculous.
 
Also no it doesn't many hypersonic characters jump to FTL speeds after gaining power as I said for example Dark Schneider or Pegasus Seiya would prove my point.And many other characters for that matter.

Again you can't cry outlier because you feel like it.
 
What was in that tree? Chakra? Or was it the Husk of the Ten Tails since the entire Chakra was within Madara himself. Bad Kishimoto writing, absorbing a powerless husk really.

You're not helping yourself here. Where are the calcs? Where is the evidence the tree contained power-the fact it spoke to him?

You're no better man.
 
The three drained the entire shinobi alliance when it was summoned by Obito.And yes it had chakra the ten tails husk would be the gedo statue not the shinju three.He became immortal after absorbing it and could reproduce the same techniques Kaguya could.


And no...
 
Entire Shinobi Alliance? Or what was left alive of them that is. It's just Chakra increasing. Increasing in Chakra can help increase speed where? Edo's had limitless Chakra.

Still waiting on a Naruto calc for Madara, Naruto, Sasuke from the Ninja war that is not low MHS+.
 
Also, the tree was technically a form of the Ten Tails.


"When the Ten-Tails was recreated into a tree by Obito Uchiha in the Fourth Shinobi World War, it was initially referred to as the Shinju by Gyüki,[8] but it was later confirmed to be a form of the Ten-Tails.[9] Likewise, the Ten-Tails' tree form was referred to as the Shinju as well in the fourth databook, but it also showed the recreated tree to be another form of the Ten-Tails."
 
Now that you're mentioning it you should check the the third link there should be a feat for Sasuke placing him at high quad digits Mach in there.Not that it matters however your reasons for claiming outlier are ridiculous .

And everything is dependent on chakra Kaguya was stronger than Madara because she had everyone's chakra she was noted to have superior chakra to him.Naruto uses chakra mode and is barely keeping up with other bijuu Naruto then uses bijuu mode and having access to all of kyuubis chakra blitz and stomps them.

So you're not getting anywhere here.
 
When he placed in his right eye and awakened his Rinne-Sharingan did his Chakra noticably increase? You aren't getting anywhere either.


Also, I can't see that Sasuke calc.


Also Chakra modes? Cool, Madara never entered another Mod, not even his Rinne Sharingan awakening is another chakra mode.
 
Yes his power increased by a lot he was able to form at least 5 limbo clones as opposed to the limited 1 he used to make.

It's at the bottom

Madara absorbed shinju and got a second rinnegan so yes even by showings his power increased substantially.

Also if you can prove to me that Pegasus Seiya ,Dark Schneider and many other characters are hypersonic wall busters given that they were leagues weaker than what they were before acquiring power then sure. I'll try and take your "argument" into consideration.
 
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