Some speed calcs.

[Quincy_Emperor]

Ah! I saw it. Needs recalcing by the group her with more accurate scaling.

Wouldn't be accepted since Madara just did the same thing and was barely over Mach 2000.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

The scaling is fine apparently just needs modifiying with our shinju three accepted calc however.

 

[Quincy_Emperor]

One acquired the power booster Judas Pain, the other a stronger Cloth. That's not the discussion here.

His Occular technicians increased etensively. Nothing shows his speed increasing with that. As I said, he didn't gain a new Chakra form or anything similar, he simply got another eye and boosted his occular techniques.

It was stated both eyes are stronger together. So the eyes and their techniques are increased. Can you show any evidence advanced Dojutsu and acquiring another Dojutsu eye can increase your speed. His Chakra output and DC can increase all it wants with more Chakra and I'll accept that.

Show me speed increases.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

What I meant with the thread is that the first 2 calcs do not work, because the movie uses cinematic time, because the moons size is inconsistent over the movie and because not the whole diameter would have to be crossed, because of angle of shadow matters.

For the second as said narutos author likes drawing very large moons. If you scale the moon from an on earth perspective you get it only being about 2.5 earth radii away or something. So I do not know how serious I should take angsizing from that perspective if he moon in general is drawn too large.

Iv'e watched The Last over 5 times, i never saw this "cinematic time" people are claiming. Is there any proof that the movie heavily uses "cinematic time"? I could argue "cinematic time" to debunk pretty much any speed feat in animation or movies.

I also find the plethora of sub-relatvistic feats getting "debunked" bizarre. Here's a new mach 10k Madara speed feat.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

You havent read Saint Seiya have you its not about their cloth for the most part but their own power seiya became LS-FTL after getting his 7th sense so no.

His rinnegan has shown to increase his overall power Kakashi with dual rinnegan being an example as well he became MHS+ after getting it .

Also more chakra does mean more speed if that wasnt the case then Naruto wouldnt be blitzing other jinchuriki in bijuu mode or Sasuke wouldnt go from getting stomped by a 1 tails to keeping up with him.

Anyways my argument stands you havent disproven anything a character can jump numerous tiers and speeds with a single power up.

 

[Quincy_Emperor]

They all seem to enter modes specifically to boost their speed. What Mode has Madara entered?

Also, Dual Rinnegan Kakashi? What? You mean when he used Perfect Susano'o and irritated Kaguya a little?

 

[Quincy_Emperor]

I'm tired, rolling out.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

The modes are entered due to chakra increase bijuu mode is merely naruto having access to all of kyuubis chakra nothing more....


And yes that as well.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

They all seem to enter modes specifically to boost their speed. What Mode has Madara entered?
Also, Dual Rinnegan Kakashi? What? You mean when he used Perfect Susano'o and irritated Kaguya a little?

Kakashi did a lot more that irratate Kaguya a little...

 

[Zerzavyx98]

I know I'm late, but I'd just love to add this onto Naruverse's consistency with sub-rel feats...

1) Might Guy (sub-rel)

2) Lightfang (lightspeed)

3)Naruto vs Toneri (moon slice and toneri flying away)


then the lessers like Naruto and Sasuke vs Momoshiki, Sasuke vs Kinshiki, and etc.

 

[FinalBattleX01]

@Quincy Emperor

So, this is a reply to your original comment directed towards me.

I see what you mean with the numbers, but you are missing my point. I'm not out to prove that Guy or Kaguya or something are "sub-rel" by virtue of being unquantifiably faster than Madara, I'm saying that the current calc for their speed is so broad that it fails to truly capture the speed of many characters. I use this point to argue that an argument along the lines of "Kaguya can't be sub-rel, she's Mach 1700 according to the last calc" is completely invalid since the calc wasn't created with her (or anyone other than Madara and Obito) in mind. It is an absolute low end that she is obviously far faster than. Up till now that was unquantifiable so she remained at that speed, but if this new calc is accepted we could end up with her true speed.

Oh, and furthermore, I'm pretty sure upgrades to God Tiers by definition cannot be outliers. This is especially true when there have been other sub-rel feats in the verse (Toneri's sword and he isn't even a God Tier and the Chakra Cannon).

Look, I'm not going to argue the Yhwach point since this will derail the whole thread, maybe another time. Besides, I was talking about Mimihagi getting the Combat Speed feat as opposed to Travel Speed, not Yhwach.

Now, I might be wrong since I haven't read Naruto in a long time, but I recall Sasuke saying something along the lines of "I feel Itachi's power coursing through me" or something after he got the EMS. Besides, Occular Powers obviously increase speed since pre-EMS Sasuke was getting outsped by the likes of the Raikage, whereas EMS Sasuke with no added training could keep up with the likes of Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto and Madara. Furthermore, after obtaining the 2nd Rinnegan, Madara's Limbo clones (who should be just as fast as he is) where able to fight Naruto in CQC and repel both him and Sasuke, whereas previously he kept getting blitzed.

Once more, not gonna argue any unrelated feats. I was just pointing out that such a large upgrade has been done before and no one called it an outlier.

Nah its cool, I didn't mind the rant. At least you explained your reasoning. That's more than I can say about a lot of people...

Now, can we go back to discussing the validity of the calcs as opposed to arguing about whether or not eyes make you faster? I'm still curious to see what people think... in the morning, cuz now I'm going to bed.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Um, don't talk and kk (our calcers) expressed their feelings for this calc and reached a conclusion so I don't think this thread should remain open

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Um, don't talk and kk (our calcers) expressed their feelings for this calc and reached a conclusion so I don't think this thread should remain open

Donttalk has mixed feelings about the last one that's why he wanted us to wait for another member of the calc group Kk agreed that the last one was the most valid and is recalculating it so...no it should for a bit at least.

 

[FinalBattleX01]

I still haven't seen a valid reason as to why the 2nd one isn't possible, so I personally think closing the thread now would simply be detrimental to reaching a proper concensus.

For real though. I'm going to bed now (*sigh* I've said that like 3 times so far and yet I never do...)

 

[UzumakiKurisu]

Wouldn't the mach 1700 thing really only apply to Obito since it was a calc of the Juubi's bijuu dama when it only had tailed beasts 1 to 7 and small fragments of the 8 and 9 tails, whereas Madara had tailed beast 1 to 7 + the entire 8 tails and half of the 9 tails(which lolstomped 5 tailed beasts).

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Obito is not even a naruto verse God tier hes bellow everyone in the calcs as far as we know dont even know what makes him relevant.Besides even if he theoretically was the only thing we'd know is that he's faster than Mach 1700 but Juubi evolved past that version before he absorbed it either way.

 

[UzumakiKurisu]

^ Yea, I was just saying because people keep bringing up the mach 1700 thing lol

 

[SwordSlayer99]

I think that the second calculatio is legit.I will state my reasons I think it's legit.

Because Toneri crossed from the sunlight of the sun to the shadow of the planet to the light again, then that means that he crossed at least the diameter of the planet.

I don't think that this feat can be written off using cinematic time either, as there was no time distortion between the shots (Time was not sped up nor slowed down at all during the scene of Toneri crossing the planets diameter, when Shikamaru was talking, and when Naruto jumping up to grab Toneri).

There is also no way that this is an outlier. Naruto is at least Mach 3,000+ and after I calculated this feat using Gallvant's scalings I got Mach 7,964.47837240172. That is only a difference of roughly 2.6x times.

Even if I assume that the diameter of the Naruto planet is equal to our own , I would only get a result of Mach 10,080 which is a 3.36x increase in speed.

With the Naruto characters(That get scaled to this) being boosted by only 2.6x for a low end or 3.36x for the high end, this can't possibly be an outlier.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

SPSBM >>>> SPSM >>> BSM >> BM Naruto >> KCSM > Toneri = Mach 7,964

SPSBM Naruto is most definitely sub-relativistic, if it's accepted.

 

[LordAizenSama]

unclespaceman if we used that logic, bleach would be FTL by now.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

unclespaceman if we used that logic, bleach would be FTL by now.

How so? All i was saying was the due to the enormous difference between SPSBM & KCSM, we could make Naruto sub-relativistic, even though the number is MHS+.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. What Swordslayer says also makes sense. Let's wait and see what DontTalk thinks?

 

[LordAizenSama]

unclespaceman if we used that logic, bleach would be FTL by now.

How so? All i was saying was the due to the enormous difference between SPSBM & KCSM, we could make Naruto sub-relativistic, even though the number is MHS+.

you can't upgrade their speed just because they're faster than each other.

 

[FinalBattleX01]

Personally I think we should assume that the diameter of the Narutoverse planet is equal to our own. Its far safer that way.

 

[UzumakiKurisu]

I find it funny that most of the people who disagree with this thread are Bleach fans lol

 

[Zerzavyx98]

I think that the second calculatio is legit.I will state my reasons I think it's legit.
Because Toneri crossed from the sunlight of the sun to the shadow of the planet to the light again, then that means that he crossed at least the diameter of the planet.

I don't think that this feat can be written off using cinematic time either, as there was no time distortion between the shots (Time was not sped up nor slowed down at all during the scene of Toneri crossing the planets diameter, when Shikamaru was talking, and when Naruto jumping up to grab Toneri).

There is also no way that this is an outlier. Naruto is at least Mach 3,000+ and after I calculated this feat using Gallvant's scalings I got Mach 7,964.47837240172. That is only a difference of roughly 2.6x times.

Even if I assume that the diameter of the Naruto planet is equal to our own , I would only get a result of Mach 10,080 which is a 3.36x increase in speed.

With the Naruto characters(That get scaled to this) being boosted by only 2.6x for a low end or 3.36x for the high end, this can't possibly be an outlier.

agreed. Naruverse has constantly been stacking up on sub-rel feats, and they were all pushed as "outliers". This is the 3rd-5th found sub-rel feat. Outliers anymore?

 

[AllanSaiyan]

I find it funny that most of the people who disagree with this thread are Bleach fans lol

Its funny that people who agree with it are Naruto fans ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°). Both fans do the same thing when there is a bleach calc Naruto fans come to disagree so its vice versa.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Since when cinematic time was legit? Shonen anime are notorious for cinematic time abuse

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Since when cinematic time was legit? Shonen anime are notorious for cinematic time abuse

Thats true.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Since when cinematic time was legit? Shonen anime are notorious for cinematic time abuse

Thats easy to say when the footage clearly shows abuse;

Toneri flying back without cutting away from that scene isn't abuse. It's clear that he's flying away and it wasn't sped up or anything.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Since when cinematic time was legit? Shonen anime are notorious for cinematic time abuse

Thats easy to say when the footage clearly shows abuse;
Toneri flying back without cutting away from that scene isn't abuse. It's clear that he's flying away and it wasn't sped up or anything.

Piccolo beam is Relativistic then 40 percent the speed of light right.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Since when cinematic time was legit? Shonen anime are notorious for cinematic time abuse

Thats easy to say when the footage clearly shows abuse;
Toneri flying back without cutting away from that scene isn't abuse. It's clear that he's flying away and it wasn't sped up or anything.

Any proof that scene happened in real time? Frieza said namek was going to blow up in 5 minutes yet it took 7 episodes. Since when Naruto got a free pass? Time is stretched and contracted in anime for the sake of plot and visual appeal. Thats a main reason why cinematic time is not accepted in most forums

Beerus headbutted Goku into stratosphere in DBS, it definitely did not look FTL if you measure the distance and 'time'. For all purposes, cinematic time is unreliable and is used accordingly to make anime look appealing

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Thats easy to say when the footage clearly shows abuse;
Toneri flying back without cutting away from that scene isn't abuse. It's clear that he's flying away and it wasn't sped up or anything.

Piccolo beam is Relativistic then 40 percent the speed of light right.

The movie is primary canon and only canon it doesn't have adaptations besides I'm pretty sure the feat itself is regarded as an outlier at obd and everywhere because stronger characters are only hypersonic-MHS at that time.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Any proof that scene happened in real time? Frieza said namek was going to blow up in 5 minutes yet it took 7 episodes. Since when Naruto got a free pass? Time is stretched and contracted in anime for the sake of plot and visual appeal. Thats a main reason why cinematic time is not accepted in most forums

Beerus headbutted Goku into stratosphere in DBS, it definitely did not look FTL if you measure the distance and 'time'. For all purposes, cinematic time is unreliable and is used accordingly to make anime look appealing

^This.

 

[LordAizenSama]

^I agree with Faisal. abuse of cinematics for one would mean abuse of cinematics for others.

 

[KyofuSama93]

Could you stop mentioning other series? Thanks...

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Thats easy to say when the footage clearly shows abuse;
Toneri flying back without cutting away from that scene isn't abuse. It's clear that he's flying away and it wasn't sped up or anything.

Any proof that scene happened in real time? Frieza said namek was going to blow up in 5 minutes yet it took 7 episodes. Since when Naruto got a free pass? Time is stretched and contracted in anime for the sake of plot and visual appeal. Thats a main reason why cinematic time is not accepted in most forums

Beerus headbutted Goku into stratosphere in DBS, it definitely did not look FTL if you measure the distance and 'time'. For all purposes, cinematic time is unreliable and is used accordingly to make anime look appealing

Since Naruto said one sentence in between the whole thing the movie may have skipped scenes but the timeframes were accurate it doesn't take someone minutes to say a single sentence it was a few seconds as shown

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

^^That's not the problem, tons of calc in the past have been rejected for cinematic time abuse. There can be 0 dialogues or 100, it's still the same. The intent is what matters. Cinematic time in anime is always adjusted for plot and visual appeal. Not just Naruto but every anime. DBZ is used as example because DBZ was the gateway shonen anime for most people. Accepting this calc will allow other anime related calcs to be accepted, which will create problem. Anime time Ôëá real time

If somebody tried to tell me Beerus isn't FTL because of a select few Dragon Ball Super fight scenes I would disagree. I have seen downplayers do that. And this is the opposite case

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

^^That's not the problem, tons of calc in the past have been rejected for cinematic time abuse. There can be 0 dialogues or 100, it's still the same. The intent is what matters. Cinematic time in anime is always adjusted for plot and visual appeal. Not just Naruto but every anime. DBZ is used as example because DBZ was the gateway shonen anime for most people. Accepting this calc will allow other anime related calcs to be accepted, which will create problem. Anime time Ôëá real time

If somebody tried to tell me Beerus isn't FTL because of a select few Dragon Ball Super fight scenes I would disagree. I have seen downplayers do that. And this is the opposite case

You do realize that this is not anime right? It's a movie written by the author this is the same reason DBS anime is taken canon over the manga and as for Narutos feat well I'm pretty sure many calcs have been taken into Accord despite it all Naruto was fighting Toneri and talking at the same time nothing was disorted as Swordslayer mentioned scenes were skipped but that doesn't invalidate anything given that nothing has been shown fast or slow in the movie IIRC.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

^^It's even worse since it's a movie and it has many time constraints. As I said, whethe be it an anime or anime movie Cinematic time Ôëá real time

Just looking forward to see if admins accept cinematic time or not. Accepting such calc might hurt the credibility of this site.