Some of Xeno Goku resistances

[Ionliosite]

If your argument is going to be based on the idea that this is a double standard because other verses can get away with it, then we should just remove it from all verse that got away with it, afterall, 2 wrongs (or tons of them as you claim) don't make a right.

 

[Dragomer]

No, my argument is based on it making sense independently of 'muh verse' bias and other verse also 'getting away with' anyway, as my Naruto exemple say, he get a resistance from other users of something he use, just like Xeno Goku and Xeno Trunks are both Ki users, if you use the same shit to an equal or greater extent, you should get all the same resistance and the easiest way to know if someone has better ki than another character is just to look at who's stronger because ki is litteraly the same thing that power their speed and strength.

It's not hard to understand that it's ki that protect people from stuff and more power = more hax resistance is just because power is the easiest metric to measure how good someone's ki is or how much they have and how much they mastered it.

Have fun removing every resistance from every single page on this wiki.

 

[Elizhaa]

First, let's be more civil and respectful.

On the recent point, resistance from a shared power system or biology that have valid Statements towards giving resistances is NOT the same as "resistances via being stronger".

The first case is fine; resistances via being stronger are wrong, should not be added, and if they exist they should be removed via CRTs.

 

[Ionliosite]

From the Hax page:

The most common hax are the ones that ignore durability, and their scale/potency are unrelated to their users' AP & Tier, however, they can be measured with their effectiveness against their targets' Durability. This is because, depending of the hax, the statistics bypassed may actually counter it if they have a higher enough scale. This, however, is not the case with certain hax, examples include Reality Warping, Probability Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation, and other abilities that simply & logically cannot be countered by high statistics.

So yes, Hakai being unable to affect people stronger than the user is a weakness, because Existence Erasure is totally an example of something that logically cannot be countered by high stats. In fact, this pretty much means Hakai isn't even hax, given it fails to do what the definition says.

I don't even need to remove all resistances, all just that fit this stupid idea that "being stronger makes you unable to be EE'd" kind of bullshit Dragon Ball gets away with.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

First, let's be more civil and respectful.

On the recent point, resistance from a shared power system or biology that have valid Statements towards giving resistances is NOT the same as "resistances via being stronger".

The first case is fine; resistances via being stronger are wrong, should not be added, and if they exist they should be removed via CRTs.

Yes, but as mentioned above it's not about physical strength or raw stats, it's more about Ki as a power system. Similar to Haki or Chakra control.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It's exactly like those two.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

No, my argument is based on it making sense independently of 'muh verse' bias and other verse also 'getting away with' anyway, as my Naruto exemple say, he get a resistance from other users of something he use, just like Xeno Goku and Xeno Trunks are both Ki users, i

Naruto has resistance to truth seeking orbs, because he has actually been touched by a truth seeking orb several times. Naruto kicks one in his base form , unaffecting him. The black staff he has between his teeth in his sixth path sage mode IS a truth seeking orb, just formed like a staff.

 

[Dragomer]

'b-b-b-bulshit !!!!!!!!' Keep living in the world in your head where Monster Carrot solo DBS if you want but don't pretend it make sense.

It get away with it because we see on screen.

So basicaly the last two comment are 'we didn't actualy read any of your points and we're gonna say no no matter what'.

Ki is what give the resistance, not the AP, the AP is just a measure of who has the stronger ki and thus who scale to the resistance, it's not hard to understand.

We have tons of characters who scale their resistance from other people who use the same stuff as them to resist.

's-s-s-s-stupid !!!' AKA actual canon info and truth in the verse directly stated on screen that you happen to not like.

Yes, you do, you have to remove every single resistance to every single ability from every single pages because if an hax get resisted, it's a weakness of the hax and hax resistance doesn't exist, once again, have a lot of fun with that, not my fault if you want to go full NLF.

 

[Akreious]

If your argument is going to be based on the idea that this is a double standard because other verses can get away with it, then we should just remove it from all verse that got away with it, afterall, 2 wrongs (or tons of them as you claim) don't make a right.
Alright, here we go then!

Naruto Part II

• "Limited Invulnerability (Shares the same chakra as Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki)"

Scales to this: "Limited Invulnerability (Juubi Jinchüriki are impervious to ninjutsu, which includes energy and elemental attacks, with the exception of those that contain natural energy)"

This shouldn't be allowed because you're giving an ability based off of a Power Source, like Dragon Ball does Resistances with their Ki.

• " Cosmic Radiations, and Ice Manipulation (Possesses superior chakra control to Kakashi)"

This too shouldn't be allowed because you're scaling a Resistance simply because someone is better at using Chakra, which Dragon Ball does in absolute SPADES
Ichigo Pre-Timeskip

• "Resistance to Possession, Soul Manipulation, Extrasensory Perception (As a transcendent being he cannot be sensed by inferior opponents unless he allows it)"

This is LITERALLY "I'm more powerful than you via X Esoteric thing therefore you can't affect me", which is LITERALLY God Ki's explanation in reference to Android 21's Power Null Waves

 

[Ionliosite]

Keep living in the world in your head where Monster Carrot solo DBS if you want but don't pretend it make sense.

Yes, that Rabbit can't solo DBS because it can't affect non-physical beings such as Infinite Zamas, but it can totally beat Jiren via Transmutation.

 

[Ionliosite]

Ok, thanks, I'll make the CRT to remove it tomorrow then.

 

[Akreious]

Keep living in the world in your head where Monster Carrot solo DBS if you want but don't pretend it make sense.

Yes, that Rabbit can't solo DBS because it can't affect non-physical beings such as Infinite Zamas, but it can totally beat Jiren via Transmutation.

Except Petrification (A form of Transmutation) was blocked by Trunks because, guess what, he used Ki!

 

[Dragomer]

Keep living in the world in your head where Monster Carrot solo DBS if you want but don't pretend it make sense.

Yes, that Rabbit can't solo DBS because it can't affect non-physical beings such as Infinite Zamas, but it can totally beat Jiren via Transmutation.

Awesome story, bro, meanwhile if we actualy watch the show, he can't do shit but cool idea for a fanfic where all logic dissapeared because you really want NLF to be accepted.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Are y'all forgetting the time patrol fought Kid Buu and Demon God Kid Buu. If Buu could have transmutated them he would off.

 

[AwkguyDB]

• " Cosmic Radiations, and Ice Manipulation (Possesses superior chakra control to Kakashi)"
• Transmutation (possesses superior ki control than Buu Saga Vegito)

why is this so hard?

Here we are again needing to re-adjust the standard because DRAGON BALL SHOULD NOT BE SO STRONG

 

[Dragomer]

Are y'all forgetting the time patrol fought Kid Buu and Demon God Kid Buu. If Buu could have transmutated them he would off.

PIS bro, Buu could solo the franchise but he didn't because plot armor, no one in fiction resist transmutation, it's all just weak transmutation being weak, that random transmutation used on a powerless human ? totaly one shot TOAA.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Are y'all forgetting the time patrol fought Kid Buu and Demon God Kid Buu. If Buu could have transmutated them he would off.

Bruh I told Ainsley about this and he nearly died XD

 

[Elizhaa]

@UchihaSlayer96, on your points, Ki as a power system have no statements of giving resistances. I think God Ki have statements of giving some resistances.

I am more focused on the shared resistances than the shared abilities given from a power system.

 

[Ionliosite]

Yes, that Rabbit can't solo DBS because it can't affect non-physical beings such as Infinite Zamas, but it can totally beat Jiren via Transmutation.
Awesome story, bro, meanwhile if we actualy watch the show, he can't do shit but cool idea for a fanfic where all logic dissapeared because you really want NLF to be accepted.

In the actual show, Jiren would omega blitz and one-shot by looking. After all, you're forgetting to separate between in-verse logic to equalization, because basically anyone on Super can be defeated by doing just that, but the rabbit gets blitzed before doing it.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@Elizhaa

But are statements necessary when we have so much circumstantial evidence? And shared feats and the such? The criteria by which a character resists hax via Ki in Dragon Ball is the same for all characters of a similar level.

Also all Hax in Dragon Ball that isn't Magic, is Ki based. Literally everything such as Teleportation, Telepathy, or even Hakai which is how characters with Ki based Power mimicry can copy those techniques on the fly such as Goku, Buu, or Cell.

 

[Dragomer]

Yeah, Jiren, blitzing and the show actualy portraying it as a wincon, sure buddy, awesome fanfic but there is a limit to OOC since Jiren's whole shtick is litteraly to take the opponent's best shot so they give up.

Equalization never ignored resistance, all it say is that if in his universe Jiren has a resistance, he'll have his resistance while fighting a character from another franchise, Boss Rabbit's transmutation is equalized with any other verse's transmutation, it doesn't affect wether or not Jiren would resist something from someone in his home serie, which he obviously would.

Jiren doesn't blitz, try again, he'd litteraly stand there and let the Rabbit take his best shot, you can't weasle your way out of your absurd claim by 'muh speedblitz'.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

> "Limited Invulnerability (Shares the same chakra as Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki)"

Limited invunlerability is something sixth path Naruto has already shown, such as when he kicked Madara's truth seeking orb and it falls under the biology - based scaling so not comparable with scaling based on strength.

> Cosmic Radiations, and Ice Manipulation (Possesses superior chakra control to Kakashi)"

Neither Naruto nor Kakashi have ever shown ice manipulation, heck Kakashi doesnt even have ice manipulaiton on his profile, so that should be removed from Naruto's profiles. Kakashi does have ice resistance on his profile tho, which Naruto doesnt despite being stronger. Naruto has shown cosmic radiation throughout the series, it's literally just his rasengans.

>"Resistance to Possession, Soul Manipulation, Extrasensory Perception (As a transcendent being he cannot be sensed by inferior opponents unless he allows it)"

Ichigo has already shown resistance to possesion and shown soul manipulation. It's how his ******* bankai work and how Bleach work in general.. Aizen and the fodder humans + shinigami were unable to sense his reatsu due to him being transcendant, so he has shown extrasensory perception as well. You are blatantly ignoring how the Bleach manga works to make your false equivalences.

 

[Dragomer]

It's not a false equivalence, it's you trying really hard to push a double standard, all those verse are in the exact same position as DB for the exact same reason.

For the 'muh statement' i litteraly posted earlier Vegeto's transmutation resistance being directly linked to his power, which is ki.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Yeah, people seem to be ignoring the scan Dragomer posted, that his resistance to the candy beam came from his ki being stronger than Buu's

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

And Bleach does rely on power for resistance to an extent. Aizen himself said that with high enough Reiatsu he can negate other people's abilities, so it's not that dissimilar imo.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

It's not a false equivalence, it's you trying really hard to push a double standard, all those verse are in the exact same position as DB for the exact same reason.
For the 'muh statement' i litteraly posted earlier Vegeto's transmutation resistance being directly linked to his power, which is ki.

How nice of you to ignore eveyrthing I said. None of the resitance or abilities mentioned in this thread profile comes from Ichigo or Naruto being stronger than someone else, they all come from actual feats. But keep on ignoring this and repeating "muh resistance" ad nauseam

All you guys have shown so far is that the wording of those profiles needs to be updated, because they fail to mention any of the feats they have for resistance and abilities and use power-scaling instead which makes 0 sense.

 

[Ionliosite]

Equalization never ignored resistance, all it say is that if in his universe Jiren has a resistance, he'll have his resistance while fighting a character from another franchise, Boss Rabbit's transmutation is equalized with any other verse's transmutation, it doesn't affect wether or not Jiren would resist something from someone in his home serie, which he obviously would.

Uh, no, Verse Equalization is totally a thing for a reason. Jiren has never shown resistance to... basically anything, so he totally has the resistance he has when he fights a character from another franchise. The Rabbit's transmutation ISN'T equalized with any other verse's transmutation, not all hax is of the same potency, he needs the feats and/or statements of it. It totally would affect, because Jiren never having shown said resistance on his home series, means he wouldn't have it against people from other verses.

 

[Dragomer]

The litteraly justification for all of them is 'has better X than' and 'is stronger than X', so the litteraly justification disagree with you.

No, what we've shown so far is that you were trying really hard to create a double standard.

It doesn't make 0 sense, it make perfect sense, if someone can fly using the gem of X, someone with the same gem of X will also be able to fly, that's just basic logic, if X use water to stop a fire, B can also use water to stop the same fire, it's just obvious properties of something like ki or chackra should apply to everyone who use it, water doesn't change it's property just because it's A instead of B.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

"not all hax is of the same potency, he needs the feats and/or statements of it."

Tell that to the Xeno Trunks vs GER thread

 

[Ionliosite]

"not all hax is of the same potency, he needs the feats and/or statements of it."

Tell that to the Xeno Trunks vs GER thread

GER does have feats of affecting 4-D stuff.

 

[Nitro90]

Again, being unable to affect people stronger than the user with hax isn't a resistance feat, it's just proof the hax is unable to bypass durability and thus has a severe weakness.

Don't a lot of beings have resistance from some hax because a weaker being try it on them and failed? Like I feel this would effect a lot beings

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

And Bleach does rely on power for resistance to an extent. Aizen himself said that with high enough Reiatsu he can negate other people's abilities, so it's not that dissimilar imo.

What resistance do any Bleach character have that isnt related to a feat or direct statement saying they can resist a certain ability? Seriously name them and their resistances.

Aizen only has resistances and abilitlies that he has shown, same with Ichigo. Aizen has space-time manipulation, yet Ichigo doesnt despite being stronger, and Ichigo's weaker forms have resistances that none of Aizen's form have, such as memory reistance and possesion resistance.

 

[Akreious]

"Limited invunlerability is something sixth path Naruto has already shown, such as when he kicked Madara's truth seeking orb and it falls under the biology - based scaling so not comparable with scaling based on strength."

Except it isn't. NOTHING about it even implies Biology-Based scaling. It's scaling via Sage of Sixth Paths Chakra, which is no different from Scaling via Ki or God Ki.

"Neither Naruto nor Kakashi have ever shown ice manipulation, heck Kakashi doesnt even have ice manipulaiton on his profile, so that should be removed from Naruto's profiles. Kakashi does have ice resistance on his profile tho, which Naruto doesnt despite being stronger. Naruto has shown cosmic radiation throughout the series, it's literally just his rasengans."

But Naruto does. Naruto very much does have Ice Resistance on his profile.

" Resistance to Matter Manipulation (Users of Six Paths chakra are unaffected by the effects of the Truth Seeking Balls), Energy Absorption (Kaguya had difficulties in absorbing his attack despite being superior to him), Cosmic Radiations, and Ice Manipulation (Possesses superior chakra control to Kakashi), Deconstruction, Limited Resistance to Power Nullification (Users of Six Paths chakra can bypass the nullification effects of the Truth Seeking Balls, and the attacks of Six Paths chakra users can bypass the nullification effects of the Truth Seeking Balls)"

Those are all of his resistances.

"Ichigo has already shown resistance to possesion and shown soul manipulation. It's how his ******* bankai work and how Bleach work in general.. Aizen and the fodder humans + shinigami were unable to sense his reatsu due to him being transcendant, so he has shown extrasensory perception as well. You are blatantly ignoring how the Bleach manga works to make your false equivalences."

Just calling it false equivalence to fit your narrative doesn't make it so. Again, Resistances have repeatedly been attributed to Ki and its benefactors. Time Skip not working on Goku is EXPLICITLY because he amped his Ki up to a point that it can resist Time Skip. Hit's Time Cage not working on Jiren is EXPLICITLY because his Ki allowed him to (Unless you wanna argue that "Transcends Time" statement is true I guess).

"@UchihaSlayer96, on your points, Ki as a power system have no statements of giving resistances. I think God Ki have statements of giving some resistances.

I am more focused on the shared resistances than the shared abilities given from a power system."

Why is this the case though? Logic for both should apply equally, otherwise we're arbitrarily making it far more difficult for some verses over others when the basic line of reasoning is the same.

As for "Ki as a power system has no statements giving resistances", they do though? Jiren's resistance of Hit's Time Cage has characters say he's "too powerful" for it. This does NOT refer to actual brute strength as every time they refer to Jiren powering up, they specify "His Ki". So the "Powerful" is in reference to Jiren's Ki.

Same for Goku resisting Time Skip. Hit during Goku's Kaioken scene is gauging Goku; saying Goku's various multipliers up until x10. Again, this is Hit gauging Goku's Ki level (Since... He's doing exactly that. Gauging his Ki using Ki Sense) and NOT his Brute Strength.

 

[Dragomer]

It's a thing for a reason, it just doesn't do what you said and doesn't exist for that reason and Boss Rabbit is from the same verse, so there is no verse equalization.

Yeah and ? that's my whole point, no one ever bother to try because it's established through weaker character that this shit wouldn't work on him, that's basic logic, X stop ability B and Jiren has the biggest X in the multiverse, trying to pretend it's not gonna stop B is delusional especialy when B is litteraly his ******* minion's main weapon.

It totaly would affect him......in your bad fanfic meanwhile in the actual show it's obvious it's not even worth trying and would just get Boss Rabbit killed and that's what matter because we are not using our fanmade version that satisfy our hax boner, who use the character as they actualy are.

 

[Ionliosite]

Don't a lot of beings have resistance from some hax because a weaker being try it on them and failed? Like I feel this would effect a lot beings

I never said it wouldn't affect a lot of beings, in fact, that was exactly my point. If other verses got away with it, they should be purged like plague.

 

[Akreious]

Don't a lot of beings have resistance from some hax because a weaker being try it on them and failed? Like I feel this would effect a lot beings

I never said it wouldn't affect a lot of beings, in fact, that was exactly my point. If other verses got away with it, they should be purged like plague.
Well then. Uhh... we'll be going through most shonen shows then

 

[AwkguyDB]

@Elizhaa
But are statements necessary when we have so much circumstantial evidence? And shared feats and the such? The criteria by which a character resists hax via Ki in Dragon Ball is the same for all characters of a similar level.

^This

Originally I would agree that stronger characters in Canon don't scale to Transmutation due to Vegito being the only special case. But now you have a game where it is shown that other characters outside of Vegito could indeed resist the transmutation and now we are considering it a weakness? What nonsense, Goku resist for the same reason Trunks and any character on their level resist as well it is not the fault of the hax but the sheer massive power AS THE AFOREMENTIONED W.O.G. DAIZENSHUU That Cal brought up to support Vegito being special, based on Kep's verdict, states. This really shouldn't be that big of a deal.

 

[Dragomer]

Ionliosite wrote
Awesome false narrative to justify a biased unjustified downgrade by trying to foster a feeling of envy and unfairness toward DB.

Still waiting on your CRT for those BTW, pal.

 

[Dragomer]

That's part of what crack me up, at the start of the thread i kept saying we didn't use the Daizenshuu and no one gave a shit and suddenly, i go 'okay, we use it ?' and provide a scan that say it's related to strength coming from the same daizenshuu and everyone keep trying to act like that didn't happen.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

@Dragomer wrote:

You are trying really hard to ignore that Naruto and Ichigo's resitance and abilities dont depend on them being stronger than other characters, I can gladly show you feats that showcases their resistances. Early shippuden Sasuke has resistance to electricity and poison, and kakashi has resitance to ice, which Naruto doesnt despite being stronger than both. Neither does Kaguya. Every version of Ichigo and Aizen have resistances that the Soul King doesnt have, despite the soul king being >>>>> them.