Some of Xeno Goku resistances

[UchihaSlayer96]

I disagree with this.

We have two examples of Saiyans resisting the same exact ability in the exact same way. Vegito(Who's half Goku btw) and Trunks who's much weaker than Goku resisted the same ability using their Ki. It's literally the same thing, and there's no reason to assume otherwise. Xeno Trunks isn't any more special than Goku, hell he's much less so.

This kind of argument is the reason the idea of "Beerus can Hakai Zeno" exists which is frankly asinine. I legitimately can't see the issue here.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I mean ki can be anti-hax but what ever.

 

[Dragomer]

The issue is that the character Cal wanted to win didn't win, that's like the third time he does that and it's annoying.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Uh, if having stronger KI is what stops the ability, thats not a resistance. It's a Caveat. We already have rules for this since the previous energy equalization thread.

 

[Dragomer]

Uh, if having stronger KI is what stops the ability, thats not a resistance. It's a Caveat. We already have rules for this since the previous energy equalization thread.

It would be a caveat if Ki was the only source of power, having stronger magic wouldn't protect you (it didn't protect Buu himself) so no, it's a resistance because it's a property of ki to protect from that.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

" This kind of argument is the reason the idea of "Beerus can Hakai Zeno" exists which is frankly asinine."

Gengar can soul-steal Necrozma. Scarecrow can fear gas Superman. Overhaul can deconstruct All Might. Sugar can transmute Whitebeard. Subzero can ABZ Shinnok. Yu Kaito can soul rip Yomi. Zelda can seal Majora. Drawcia can paint hax Void. Amy Rose can Ring Time Solaris. The Koopalings can transmute Super Dimentio. Deidara can atomize Momoshiki. Okuyasu can Za Hando Kars or Dio. Michael Morningstar can drain Alien X. None of these things should happen, but they don't have feats of resistance so c'est la vie.

I can go on and on about power and authority not granting you hax resistance. And once again, Dragon Ball is the only verse I've seen this argument come up. The amount of times I've seen the "Hakai Zeno" argument is ridiculous, but nobody talks about anything else. And you're calling me biased.

And enough with Vegito. Even ignoring the fact that we've established on previous threads that Goku doesn't get resistance from Vegito, which is why cano Goku doesn't have resistance. Goku still isn't Vegito. Fusions are greater than the sum of their parts. Can either Goku or Vegeta use the Spirit Sword or Soul Punisher? Can either Trunks or Goten use the Ghost Kamikazee Attack or the Galactic Donut?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I honestly dislike that logic a lot. Being a god tier in a verse doesnt mean fodder can't surpass you in some aspect.

 

[Dragomer]

Gengar can soul steal everyone in pokemon if you want, no one has the same stuff as what allowed the other pokemons from resisting it, unlike Vegito and Trunks.

No, the fear gas depend on the version and that Superman doesn't have the same stuff that allowed other character to resist it, that's why he doesn't resist it.

Litteraly none of the stuff you mentionned is the same situation as what we were talking about so it's still resisted, c'est la vie, Bill is still losing.

I could go on on why it's wrong and why we don't apply that way, it's not because you can go on something that it's true, especialy when your motivation is petty and biased as hell and thus not based on actual reasoning.

.........People talk about that kind of stuff all the time for all kind of verse, i don't know what you're smoking, you only see it about Zeno because you keep making those kinds of thread everytime a match with a DB character doesn't go your way and Zeno is the most obvious exemple of why it doesn't work.

No, we established jackshit unless we accept the daizenshuu suddenly and i can tell a lot of shit is going to change if we do, we explicitly don't accept them AGAIN and once again, the daizenshuu just state his resistance as a characteristic because no one else was that strong back then.

Vegito who resisted that is explicitly inferior to BOG Goku, try again, they are only greater than their part at the time, the components of the fusion can then independently grow stronger than the fusion was back then and even if we accept that, it still leave DBX Trunks and DBH Trunks doing the same for the same reason while inferior to Goku who clearly has indirect previous feats of resisting transmutation through being litteraly half of Vegeto.

Soul Punisher isn't canon so no but the spirit sword ? totaly, there is litteraly no reason they shouldn't.

No idea, we don't know shit about their current power or they fight but the kamiazee ghost and galactic donuts are clearly just way to use ki, they don't need anything except fiiting their user's fighting style, Gotenks just has a different personality and is more of a show off than either of the kids.

 

[Dragomer]

I honestly dislike that logic a lot. Being a god tier in a verse doesnt mean fodder can't surpass you in some aspect.

That's not my logic at all though, my logic is that Trunks and Vegito used X to resist X, Xeno Goku is explicitly better at X and has more of it so he resist X too, it's not like i'm saying Goku is better swordsman than Trunks or something silly.

If tommorow Trunks resisted something because he has magic and then another character has the same or more magic than him, he should resist it the same even if he is fodder in everything else.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

So according to you guys Beerus can unironically beat Zeno? Lmao.

Is that match up banned? If not I'm going to make that thread now.

 

[Dragomer]

So according to you guys Beerus can unironically beat Zeno? Lmao.
Is that match up banned? If not I'm going to make that thread now.

Zeno was supposed to be match banned but some people disagree (not sure if both Zeno and GP were match banned or only GP) and the staff didn't close the Zeno threads that popped up afterward so i guesse you can do it.

 

[Ionliosite]

Technically, Beerus can't Hakai Zen O because his EE has the weakness of the being unable to affect people with higher AP.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So according to you guys Beerus can unironically beat Zeno? Lmao.

Is that match up banned? If not I'm going to make that thread now.

Hey I wonder if Death of the Endless has any resistances on her profile? Hmmm...I guess she doesn't, so she's clearly lose Martian Manhunter. I mean, who cares if she's 1-A. Sure, due to being beyond dimensional, nothing would affect her, but something on her level? I mean, it's almost like you need feats to get resistances added to your profile. That's a shocker.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Btw, show me where it's said that ki was used to resist for Trunks or Vegito.

 

[Nitro90]

We never treated it like that before as far as i know. We ALWAYS treat it like that.
Then why do we even have a resistance section instead of an hax weakness section ? i always see 'resisted X because of a pure heart so has resistance X', hell i saw like 2 different profile with that justification for Corruption Resistance or something like that

A hax weakness section I agree with

 

[Dragomer]

Technically, Beerus can't Hakai Zen O because his EE has the weakness of the being unable to affect people with higher AP.

No, it doesn't, resisting Hakai is considered a resistance feat, nothing else.

If we used that logic, there would be no resistance category, just a hax weakness category and the strongest hax on the wiki would be those used only on powerless humans.

 

[Wokistan]

Not strictly biology based but if the reason for this resistance is elaborated on and whatever trait that is is shared.

As for the transmutation, wouldn't that be a weakness of the transmutation that it isn't negating durability

 

[Nitro90]

"We only scale resistances if it's biology base" General question why?

 

[Ionliosite]

No, it doesn't, resisting Hakai is considered a resistance feat, nothing else.

Resisting it can be considered a resistance feat if IT IS ACTUALLY SHOWN. I honestly don't get why do characters like Freeza and Vegeta have resistance to EE when Hakai explicity can't affect people stronger than the user.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Wok.

Ki. The answer to whenever someone tries to call out something related to scaling in DB. It's Ki based so it's fine. They're stronger so it scales. Despite the fact that I can count on my fingers while quadripledric how many other series this applies to.

 

[Dragomer]

Not strictly biology based but if the reason for this resistance is elaborated on and whatever trait that is is shared.
As for the transmutation, wouldn't that be a weakness of the transmutation that it isn't negating durability

Then it's pretty clear cut, Goku basicaly share everything with Trunks and Vegito except Trunks's half human part which is clearly not what allowed him to resist.

No because we see that the transmutation does negate durability and make transformed people unconcious so it's a feat of resisting those effect, if Buu hadn't transformed other people and been transformed and eaten himself beforehand, i could see that argument being used but here it's clearly a resistance feat for Trunks and Vegito.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

You might argue for OG Goku but... in Xenoverse you literally resist the thing the same way Vegito did. You are unable to use your active skill though, so that could be a thing.

 

[Wokistan]

"No because we see that the transmutation does negate durability and make transformed people unconcious so it's a feat of resisting those effect, if Buu hadn't transformed other people and been transformed and eaten himself beforehand, i could see that argument being used but here it's clearly a resistance feat for Trunks and Vegito. "

Where do we see it negates durability though

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You might argue for OG Goku but... in Xenoverse you literally resist the thing the same way Vegito did. You are unable to use your active skill though, so that could be a thing.

Gameplay isn't canon, Risci.

 

[Dragomer]

"No because we see that the transmutation does negate durability and make transformed people unconcious so it's a feat of resisting those effect, if Buu hadn't transformed other people and been transformed and eaten himself beforehand, i could see that argument being used but here it's clearly a resistance feat for Trunks and Vegito. "
Where do we see it negates durability though

When Skinny Buu casualy snap chocolate fat Buu in half with his teeth casualy despite the gap not being THAT being between them.

Also it Buu's transmutation negate Regenerationn technicaly since Buu couldn't just regen from that so i guesse that could be added.

 

[Dragomer]

You might argue for OG Goku but... in Xenoverse you literally resist the thing the same way Vegito did. You are unable to use your active skill though, so that could be a thing.

Gameplay isn't canon, Risci.

Awk provided a video of it happening in the story, you litteraly see Trunks moving and talking normaly.

 

[Godzilla_King_of_the_Monsters_2019]

The candy beam negates durability, sure, but if you're strong enough you'll just survive it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

And Trunks doesn't fight or insist that this is a ki related resistance technique. He just moves. Bounces and begs to be turned back. You're isnsiting this is a ki based thing when even if that would get Goku resistance, it's not even confirmed to be.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Gameplay isn't canon, Risci.

But it happens in the story too, so saying that the game devs going out of their way to make the candy beam similar to how it interacted with Vegito seems fair to me.

Trunks has literally nothing on Goku. He has never once did a training or anything of the like to develop an ability Goku doesn't have, unless you take energy blasts with different colors and names into account.

 

[Wokistan]

"When Skinny Buu casualy snap chocolate fat Buu in half with his teeth casualy despite the gap not being THAT being between them."

This doesn't mean the ability negates durability though. Sure it may lower it, but it's not an example of transmutation working on a stronger guy or whatever.

"Also it Buu's transmutation negate Regenerationn technicaly since Buu couldn't just regen from that so i guesse that could be added."

I think this is just a default thing of transmutation.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

And Vegito, despite being much stronger than Buu, did get turned to candy but he was just able to resist the aspect of it making you unconscience and retained his strength and speed. So yeah it negates duarbility, but Vegito and Trunks can resist it. So they do get Transmutated, but they resist some of the effects I guess such as being an unconscience, powerless piece of candy.

 

[Dragomer]

And Trunks doesn't fight or insist that this is a ki related resistance technique. He just moves. Bounces and begs to be turned back. You're isnsiting this is a ki based thing when even if that would get Goku resistance, it's not even confirmed to be.

The **** else does Trunks have ? he doesn't know magic, he doesn't have tech on him, the hell does he have except ki while being sneak transformed by Buu while asking people around to play a microtransaction wannabe DBH game ?

He begs Buu more about playing his mom's scam than about being turned back, that's still resistance or limited resistance, otherwise he'd be unconcious on the ground unable to do shit, let alone talk or bounce around in a city where you can't even fly without a permit.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

"When Skinny Buu casualy snap chocolate fat Buu in half with his teeth casualy despite the gap not being THAT being between them."
This doesn't mean the ability negates durability though. Sure it may lower it, but it's not an example of transmutation working on a stronger guy or whatever.

"Also it Buu's transmutation negate Regenerationn technicaly since Buu couldn't just regen from that so i guesse that could be added."

I think this is just a default thing of transmutation.

I guess him making clay out of people could count, or making literal milk out of someone. Doubt the milk could take a punch.

But eh, I feel that's a default thing of transmutation.

 

[Dragomer]

That's still resisting the lower durability and being unconcious effect of the transmutation either way.

I was told otherwise about the transmutation thing though but it being a default thing make sense.

 

[Godzilla_King_of_the_Monsters_2019]

There are some things without justification though like BFR

 

[Omegas03]

What in the World makes you people think that being turned into a candy is going to be any problem to say, Xeno Goku or Grand Priest if it wasn't to Xeno Trunks?

I guess I can just say that Beerus defeats Whis via lolhakai or that Hyssop's Absolute Zero will just one shot SSB Goku and Zamasu arc Vegito despite Base Vegeta having no trouble with it. That's ridiculous and y'all know it smh.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Right?

 

[Nitro90]

No, it doesn't, resisting Hakai is considered a resistance feat, nothing else.

Resisting it can be considered a resistance feat if IT IS ACTUALLY SHOWN. I honestly don't get why do characters like Freeza and Vegeta have resistance to EE when Hakai explicity can't affect people stronger than the user.

The only ability I can name off the top of head that follows this is Hit Time-Skip when has it been stated it can't work on characters

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Tell that to literally every series @Omega and @SOC. Again, DB is the only one where this argument comes up. Do you see people complaining that Momoshiki doesn't resist matter manipulation despite being >>>> Deidara and Onoki? No. Do you see people complaining that Boa Hancock could turn Kaido or Blackbeard into stone despite them being >>>>>> her? No. But you'll see people complaining that Goku doesn't resist mind manipulation due to him being >>>> Babidi.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Momoshiki should scale to Six Paths characters who can resist Atomization, so that example doesn't even make sense lol.

Armament Haki negs Devil fruits powers as well, so that also doesn't work.

Vegeta resisted it through willpower, so you bet Goku can do the same.