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Some DBZ speed upgrades

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Sparky_"Dante"_Marky1234

Sparky_"Dante"_Marky1234

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I feel like these should be added. I'm gonna leave links instead of the image, just to avoid it becoming too sloppy, as I'm using mobile. Here goes.

Namek Vegeta and Goku http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111217478/4618888-5605836841-q009..jpg ^Had later outsped Freezas death beams and saved Gohan. This should be FTL Reactions, Short Burst and Combat speed for Vegeta.

"Vegeta was killed by them though!" Yes, but he was knocked down, had a hole in his chest and was on the verge of death.

"It took Goku to react to them though, he was the first to have a FTL feat! And even that was barely FTL" Goku was suppressed. While we are on Goku, he was only using 20% of his ki if I remember correctly, and that is when Goku was already fighting Freeza. His initial feat was calced at 1.06299C. At 20% of his energy, he should therefore be 5.31495C, so it would make a bit more sense for Vegeta to be light speed to barely FTL.

(For those who have no idea what I'm talking about, here is the calc: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FanofRPGs/Goku_swats_away_the_Death_Beams?useskin=oasis )

Changes: Vegeta [Namek] = Likely FTL reactions, short burst and combat speed [Saved Gohan from Friezas death beams] Goku [Namek/Freeza Battle] = FTL reactions, short burst and combat speed [At no more than 20% of his power, he was calced at 1.06299C]

Tie http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111114806/4695187-1621394387-file.j.jpeg ^Tien dodging Geros laser beams

"They shouldn't be FTL though. Nothing suggests that to begin with." However Goku didn't dodge them as easily as the death beams on Namek. That should be FTL to FTL+ reactions.

http://m.imgur.com/75yibxa?r ^He also avoided Buus human extinction attack. This should qualify as another FTL to FTL+ reaction speed feat. [Hercule seeing it could be regarded as an inconsisteny]

Change: Likely FTL to FTL+ reactions.

Krilli https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=_wGOv6uxys0 ^At about the 26 second mark, Roshi tells Krillin that he won't be hit by Freezas army as he has witnessed battles from the likes of Cell, Buu and Beerus. Obviously he can't see Buu and Beerus, but he was able to (although for only a while), track Goku and Cell fighting in the Cell games, both of which are FTL+ at the time.

The anime filler also supports this, as Krillin could keep up with Imperfect Cell for a short while.

Change: Potentially FTL reactions

Piccolo https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=ddhhQG5u43c At about the 3 minutes mark, Piccolo could see Goku moving in SSJB KK×10. He has consistently been able to track Goku and his opponents mid battle. Change: Possibly Massively FTL+ reactions (I myself feel a little off with this. Possibly MTFL reactions would likely be a better choice)

Do you agree with any of these? If so, which one(s)? Comment down below.
 
The seems, for the most part, okay, but the Piccolo part is a bit of stretch. Tien and Krillin being the strongest humans, FTL seems okay too, but at the same time, it feels like a stretch but more believable than MFTL+ Piccolo.
 
I agree on Tien, Buu's human extinction attack covered the Earth in seconds if not minutes, Tien was the only one to avoid them I believe. Though it might need a calc.

I somewhat agree with Vegeta.

Not sure about Krillin.

Gohan and Super Buu are possibly MFTL, PIccolo being the strongest Z fighter thats not a saiyan I'm not against him also being MFTL.
 
FTL Tien is fine.

Maybe FTL Vegeta.

Not the other two. Way too inconsistent.
 
Promestein said:
FTL Tien is fine.
Maybe FTL Vegeta.

Not the other two. Way too inconsistent.
Click to expand...
^

This.

@Radical

Well, Tien and Chiaotzu, but yeah, they were the only ones fast enough to avoid it.
 
To be fair, Tien and Chiaotzu were the only relevant characters besides Mr. Satan that were on Earth but weren't on the Lookout, so of course no one else was able to dodge them. Everyone else was normal.
 
The Namek/Frieza part could be considered calc staking, without mentioning that the Fan's calc is based in an assumption, so most likely couldn't be used.

Gero's attack aren't necesary faster than Frieza's, in fact, iirc 19 and 20 are weaker than Frieza, is only that possesses more stamina.

Super Buu's attack doesn't appear to be that fast, considering that the first attack reach to a human in other earth side in 30 s, that is just a little slower than Mach 2000.

Were 1st form Cell trying to not draw attention that time? he was just trying to to escape and absorb more people cuz would be able to defeat Tien, Krillin and Piccolo at the same time.

That entire arc has doubtful scaling, even characters like Krillin and Chamcha were able to perceive the fighters, that, and that the combat speed of top tier characters from DBS are most likely different than the Beerus flying speed.
 
Huesito88 said:
What makes gero weaker?
Click to expand...
that were what I heard from DBZ kai, could be a misstranslation tho

ED: Now that I remember, those androids start to fight after the first coming of Trunks, so they aren't that different from Frieza considering that both Piccolo and Vegeta stomped them
 
Antoniofer said:
The Namek/Frieza part could be considered calc staking, without mentioning that the Fan's calc is based in an assumption, so most likely couldn't be used.

Gero's attack aren't necesary faster than Frieza's, in fact, iirc 19 and 20 are weaker than Frieza, is only that possesses more stamina.

Super Buu's attack doesn't appear to be that fast, considering that the first attack reach to a human in other earth side in 30 s, that is just a little slower than Mach 2000.

Were 1st form Cell trying to not draw attention that time? he was just trying to to escape and absorb more people cuz would be able to defeat Tien, Krillin and Piccolo at the same time.

That entire arc has doubtful scaling, even characters like Krillin and Chamcha were able to perceive the fighters, that, and that the combat speed of top tier characters from DBS are most likely different than the Beerus flying speed.
Click to expand...
Well, it was confirmed that the death beams that Goku effortlessly blocked at 1/5th of his power were light speed. That means that even without calcs, he has FTL reactions, likely 5× light speed without calcs. He later dodges the eye beams, but isn't doing so effortlessly. Besides, attack speed =/= attack power. Krillins scatter shot is stronger than kis Kamehameha, but it's slower.

Regarding Buus attack, we have no idea on the time frame. 30 seconds is using cinematic time. Via cinematic time, feats are contradicted through what we see (Kid Goku running 100 meters in 8 seconds took 2 via cinematic time, the 5 minute fight with Goku and Freeza took a half an hour, etc).

Cell was trying to absorb Krillin, as he would get much more power from him than a normal human.
 
Welp, I actually can consider Vegeta being Likely FTL is the assumption is correct.

About Buu, I highly doubt that Buu killed the entire humanity in less than 1 second, and even considering 1 s as timeframe, that still being less than 1% SoL; and to be fair, the battle were shorter in manga than anime, even in anime there were more than 5 min of dialog.

Still with doubts with the Krillin stat, even when Cell tryed to absorb a human the Z warriors could find him, would be more difficult for Cell absorb Krillin and he were trying to kill him
 
Promestein said:
FTL Tien is fine.
Maybe FTL Vegeta.

Not the other two. Way too inconsistent.
Click to expand...
It's not like Tien is vastly superior to Krillin. The difference is slight. If the two fought, I think they'd be almost evenly matched.
 
Huesito88 said:
What makes gero weaker?
Click to expand...
Than final form Namek Frieza? I read somewhere (probably the Dragon Ball wiki) that his and 19's power levels were around 16 million or something compared to final form Namek Frieza's 120 million. Then there is the fact that Piccolo could stomp Gero and I highly doubt Piccolo (before fusing with Kami) was on the level of final form Namek Frieza and Namek SSJ Goku.
 
@Antonio

Well, even then, we still have him dodging Geros lasers, which would be a FTL reaction speed feat. Although we've gotten some pretty good speed feats, such as Goku traveling half of Namek in an instant, as well as him escaping Freeza Light Imprisonment Ball the instant it blows up. Not to mention we've had FTL blasts as well. The speed would be incalculable I guess. But again, we still have Geros eye beam, which is supported through Goku doing a not so casual dodge to avoid them.

Also, Cell could've just knocked him down and taken him if that was the case. I'm not saying Krillin was comparable, but he wasn't complete ass to him, not to mention he landed a blow on him before he could react. (Yes, it's filler, but it's supposed to support the statement from Roshi).
 
I think that Antoniofer seems to make sense.
 
Honestly I think SSB tier characters should have a massive combat speed downgrade since Piccolo and 4-C-B characters can percieve them and DBS has had shitty combat speed feats and is unquestionably has been taking the "Superman Route" as I've coined the term since literally every feat in super was travel speed and their combat speed has shown to be crap as despite their speed increasing with ki they can fight at those speeds anymore as theyve never done something like foghr across a universe or even a galaxy and theyve been shown as not terribly above the original cast combat speed wise since Piccolo cant increase his power exponentially.

I think it can be made unanimous that this series has horrendous scaling consistency, but that does not excuse the complete lack of combat speed feats, characters with established limits in combat speed keeping up, and (in my view) the fact that there are way too many inconsistencies to warrant another speed buff.
 
In DB tracking/sensing =/= reacting/combat speed.

Characters are often shown tracking enemies with incredibly faster speeds (ie Namek Saga Vegeta sensing the Ginyu Force ships, SPC being tracked by normal Z-Fighters), yet not able to even closely match them in speed.

Hence why Piccolo and Krillin should stay where they're at, albeit the other upgrades seem fine.

@Soldier Blue we don't use power levels.
 
If that's true, then why do we accept FTL Frieza saga, considering the whole calc is based on not sensing Frieza's beams? Regardlesss, Tien seems fine to me.
 
Well, yeah, but if what you're saying is relatable, then that should be unquantifiable because it's based on Vegeta not sensing the beam.

Should still be an FTL saga by Powerscaling anyway, but just thought to bring it up...
 
No. Well, yes and no. It's called a generic flash of light in a guidebook. It's not called a beam of protons or anything like Touhou. Has about as much proof of being lightspeed as DCEU Supes' eye beams.
 
The real cal howard is right. The guidebook is likely just using fancy langauge and nothing more by having the words "flash of light".
 
The real cal howard said:
No. Well, yes and no. It's called a generic flash of light in a guidebook. It's not called a beam of protons or anything like Touhou. Has about as much proof of being lightspeed as DCEU Supes' eye beams.
Click to expand...
I don't think DB has ever really been that in depth with details in describing things like that, as opposed to comic verses. The most likely reason fo that is while they havr scientific explanations, DBZ characters simply use their life force/ki and bring it outside of their body.

Even then, Goku would still be considered FTL for escaping the Light Imprisonment Ball the instant it exploded, aka an explosion if light. (Yes, I've seen the calc, but that assumes ki works just like a nuclear bomb explosion)
 
BruceTheBatman said:
Honestly I think SSB tier characters should have a massive combat speed downgrade since Piccolo and 4-C-B characters can percieve them and DBS has had shitty combat speed feats and is unquestionably has been taking the "Superman Route" as I've coined the term since literally every feat in super was travel speed and their combat speed has shown to be crap as despite their speed increasing with ki they can fight at those speeds anymore as theyve never done something like foghr across a universe or even a galaxy and theyve been shown as not terribly above the original cast combat speed wise since Piccolo cant increase his power exponentially.
I think it can be made unanimous that this series has horrendous scaling consistency, but that does not excuse the complete lack of combat speed feats, characters with established limits in combat speed keeping up, and (in my view) the fact that there are way too many inconsistencies to warrant another speed buff.
Click to expand...
LoL,in db all z fighters are always watching others fighting,and yet they are many times slower.

Your reason is not logical
 
Ok guys stay on Topic.

From what i've seen everyone isn't ok with Krillin or Piccolo.

Everyone seems to be fine with Tien and a maybe for Vegeta so...

Likely FTL (Shown to be capable to keep up with other character of similar speed)

Possibly FTL (Reacted to Frieza)
 
LuciferSPN said:
BruceTheBatman said:
Honestly I think SSB tier characters should have a massive combat speed downgrade since Piccolo and 4-C-B characters can percieve them and DBS has had shitty combat speed feats and is unquestionably has been taking the "Superman Route" as I've coined the term since literally every feat in super was travel speed and their combat speed has shown to be crap as despite their speed increasing with ki they can fight at those speeds anymore as theyve never done something like foghr across a universe or even a galaxy and theyve been shown as not terribly above the original cast combat speed wise since Piccolo cant increase his power exponentially.
I think it can be made unanimous that this series has horrendous scaling consistency, but that does not excuse the complete lack of combat speed feats, characters with established limits in combat speed keeping up, and (in my view) the fact that there are way too many inconsistencies to warrant another speed buff.
Click to expand...
LoL,in db all z fighters are always watching others fighting,and yet they are many times slower.
Your reason is not logical
Click to expand...
its called ki sensing, they are not watching them, they are only sensing their ki, thats how the know where they are
 
Yes they are,go watch Goku vs Cell,you'll see many many times that they are moving their eyes in direction of fight
 
Aimenaltair said:
LuciferSPN said:
Yes they are,go watch Goku vs Cell,you'll see many many times that they are moving their eyes in direction of fight
Click to expand...
Anime only m8
Click to expand...
And you know that?because you know every single page of manga?

and that anime only stuffs doesn't matter,since anime is canon itself
 
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