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Sneks and Witches - UKG vs Ouroboros

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FateAlbane

FateAlbane

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This witch tries to use this snek in some cursed ritual but it bites her back and a fight ensues.

Who wins and why?

Both at 2-A and speed equal.

Kriemhild gretchen poem by zombieusagi-d5fmyx4
I get used all the time.

OuroborosMaia
I'm jealous because I'm never used.
 
I'm pretty sure not all SMT 2-As scale from Kagutsuchi, and going by the AP description on snek's page it doesn't really seem he does EDIT: Ninja'd

Also really? High-Godly is a win condition now?
 
Ouroboros as of now isn't infinitely above baseline but you could try to push for it since the Four Devas, who themselves are 2-A, are just some random Demons inhabiting her Sector, while she is the embodiment of Infinity and Eternity and yada yada.

But this is fishy and uncertain.
 
I don't see UKG winning against Abstract Existence with type 8 immortality (I'm going just from profile, but I assume it isn't some super weak version) so Snek wins or Inconclusive.

Can Ouroboros destroy acasual beeings? Destroying her universe in 3D isn't enough and on profile it isn't exactly specyfied. I see that he is 4D but are his atacks 4D (erasing from space-time continuum)?
 
>Snek via high-godly

>Implying that a character with over 100 powers on the profile doesn't have incapacitation methods

UKG definitely can't kill the snek, but she can do more than simply punching.
 
ZacharyGrossman273 said:
Well, IDK PMMM, so I'd like specifics as to how she incaps please
Click to expand...
-Corrupt its body, mind and soul

-Mind hax it

-Create a "no snakes in this multiverse" law

-Maybe BFR unless it can return after being sent to a different multiverse
 
And that is ignoring all the powers she gets from all the other witches and Magical Girls in the series
 
I won't vote for now. Thatg being said, there's thing like fatehaxing beings with type 4 acausality and immeasurable speed, which might help.
 
@Kaltias First option falls under the paycheck of the regen and immortality especially since the latter is based on then returning to a 1-C and then being reformed to top condition from it.

Third one likely cancels out with Fate manip and the Snake can really just bust the Multiverse. Also IIRC demon forms are materialized from Observation to begin with so that's sort of a 1-C Hax that allows them to exist in reality which I doubt the law from UKG can overrule as at that point it would need to be >>>> The Axiom in hax scale.

Second and Fourth, I dunno if Snek has counters to so fair game unless proven otherwise.
 
@Fate

Would the first one really fall under immortality?

It doesn't really kill Ouroborus, just make it ugly + subservient to UKG
 
Not sure about Mindhax, but Ouroboros can probably travel between Multiverses, since IIRC even Belial and Nebiros could reach through several planes of existence above the Multiverse to prevent YHVH from taking Alice's soul to Heaven, and the Goddess of Tokyo in a weakened and incomplete child form could travel to another creation separate from YHVH's Multiverse. Not to mention that even the Heroine from SMT I could teleport the main party to the Diamond Realm in the Expanse, and she was like, 2-C at the time.

Ouroboros's Fate Manipulation also comes from the fact she scales from far weaker Demons like the Norns, who weave and control the Fates of demon gods who exist beyond Time and Space across the Multiverse and violate basic laws of cause and effect by their nature alone.
 
@Kaltias Probably, since there are demons who got their original form corrupted and/or were forgotten entirely and left in an absolute state of isolation that they should by no means be able to return to their usual condition from (Noah) or were slain and broken into literal tiny pieces (Bel) or really just were erased beyond recognition (The White) and so on.

Also of note is that as of SMT IV Apocalypse most of the forms of demons we see are ALREADY utterly corrupted to begin with from what their forms originally were as a result of Humans observing them into something entirely different from what they used to be. Such as Baal being corrupted into Beelzebub and still existing just fine, or regening and being immortal as usual.
 
@Zach

All the 2-As can because their powers are made to work against each other.

Homura simply happens to have the potency to do that.

Also, that description doesn't sound like type 4, but rather type 2. That's why UKG has type 2. Existing outside of space time and all

@Fate

Ok, fair enough
 
Kal, ALRF has been searching for you in chat for a while, could you log in there and help him out?

EDIT: Nevermind, the being left just as I told you.
 
Even Homura as a witch despite beeing the most aware amongst witches due to constant purification goes for kill via familiars and phisical atack. Only in demon form she uses more advanced techniques. There is no way UKG is more aware than Homulily, since Homura kinda chose to become witch, while Madoka kept fighting it till the end.

Therefore she will use phisicall atack or Mindhax that in her standard form was creating paradise what doesn't sound like a win, or even that strong of a Mindhax.
 
@Fate

Rip

@Szmiit

1) UKG has Madoka's memories. Pretty sure that it's on her profile

2) Homulilly never tried to kill anyone.

3) That's not her mind hax. Her mind hax is Witch Kiss, or Fantasma Bisbiglio (which is stronger than Witch Kiss but is sound based)
 
Also, I remembered only now that she has stare-based power null (which should also be stat reduction now that we have a page for it)

Won't kill nor incap, but it would still weaken Ouroboros, which is always useful

Can the snek kill her? Serious question as idk the erasing capabilities of Demons very well
 
For 2-A matters? Probably since if SMT 4 is anything to go by even the nothingness that the White inhabited and their non-existent influence over the Expanse was erased (for the timebeing) when they got destroyed.
 
Does this apply to the 2-As weaker than Kagu?

Plus UKG did regen from that kind of stuff (she was already nonexistent before Madoka went exterminatus on her, Madoka deleted her only for a while).

I sincerely have no idea how UKG and multiversal nuke interact however. Like, she survived it, but we also decided that we shouldn't give her High-Godly, so idk
 
@Ultima Yamato Perpetual Reactor: The most troll match. Do nothing and nothing happens. Break it and a 2-A nuke erases everything.

@Kaltias I meant that it likely can because as a matter of fact the White were already non-existent but they also warped the entire expanse into a plane of pure, vast nothingness.

When they got erased they were wiped from it and the very nothingness they had
WhiteEr0
warped the world into was erased as well turning the Expanse into a sort of wasteland instead and their influence couldn't even manifest anymore in it.
The only reason they can eventually come back is because, as Lucifer puts it, humanity eventually makes such beings rise again.

WhiteEr01
WhiteEr1
WhiteEr2
WhiteEr3
WhiteEr4
WhiteEr5
 
@Kaltias

1) Her memories don't mean her awareness. Even Homulily became unreasonable after full transformation and she unlike Madoka accepted the fact of becomming a witch. UKG won't be thinking straight.

2) Homura became Homulilly to kill all Incubators. Plus to some extent tried to kill Magical Girls - she belived that she would die before succes, but as a witch was half-heartedly trying to do that.

3) Witch Kisses just make you accept reality of barrier, and can at most help her in phisical killing. Type 8 immortality still protects.
 
Also of note is that SMT has conceptual beings who are more "tangible" than the White. Even compared to other conceptual demons in the depths of the Expanse, the White are said to lack any actual form.

WhiteEx
So if the demons can erase those beings, they should be able to deal with other non-existent foes without a concept as well.
WhiteEx2
 
1) Except that UKG thinks straight. She talked to Homura

2) No, when fighting, she wasn't fighting to kill.

3) So? UKG tells Uroboros "Don't fight me". Witch Kiss can be used to do that, it's mind control

@Fate

Fair enough
 
1) By talking to Homura you mean Wraith Arc? What did she say there - I don't really remember...

Ability to talk doesn't automatically mean thinking straight. Depends on what she says. Her card has "Everlasting wailing fills her body", doesn't sound like someone capable of conducting optimal plan.

If Homulily could conduct her plans straightly she wouldn't have to relay on others to kill her.

2) She was fighting to kill against Incubators.

3) Will cause inconclusive if she can think straight enough.
 
1) It was something like "is that you Homura" or something

"Everlasting wailing" is because she is the despair of all the magical girls

Homulilly can't kill herself tho. Her labyrinth keeps her alive.

2) Incubators aren't even close to an actual opponent. They are essentially pests that don't stay dead

3) No, not really. Incapacitation is a win condition. And UKG doesn't even need cosmic awareness to try it, even mindless witches did that.
 
3rd point convinced me.

If Ouroboros keeps comming back through type 8, and she from beeing acasual, and if he can't resist her mindhax, then she will eventualy incap him.

How do we stand on killing acasuals? Can Ouroboros do that?
 
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