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Megami Tensei - The Collective, Expansive CRT

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Great work @Milly_Rocking_Bandit and everyone else that contributed their time, effort and research into this CRT. Naturally I agree with the concept of this CRT (stuff like resistances and scaling chains can be saved for a later time if this CRT manages to go through).

And I'm fine with whatever baseline (early game/prologue) tier the staff/calc group manages to agree on (It seems that contentious point is been ironing out as this CRT progresses from the above mentioned comments, so that's good to see).

Ofc since this a massive CRT that'll affects many profiles, potentially grant large upgrades and has drawn plenty of attention already, I will remind folks to keep the whataboutism to a minimum.

Let's discuss as well as keep the rhetoric civilised and respectful shall we?
 
Out of curiosity, why are:

image0-23.png

image1-1.png

These scans not used? Is it because the position of the Akashic Records is controversial in the whole Tree of Life thing? It's pretty good supporting evidence for 1-A.

Agree with the thread, btw.
 
CrimsonStarFallen said:
These scans not used? Is it because the position of the Akashic Records is controversial in the whole Tree of Life thing? It's pretty good supporting evidence for 1-A.
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Pretty much, yeah. Devil Survivor 2 presents a really distinct take on the cosmology where the informational world and the physical world actually exist side-by-side and depend on one another, with whatever affects the Records affecting the universe and vice-versa, while in the mainline series, the informational world is independent from the physical and forms the basis of it.

Guess it could be taken as supporting evidence for Information itself not necessarily being bound by dimensions, though.
 
1-A Shin megami tensei, eh? too weak, guess GER still stomps.
On a serious note, i will have to agree with the upgrades. Very direct evidence in a well organized CRT
 
Hard agree with everything except for the Regeneration stuff. I understand that demons coming back to life from being erased across all time isn't Regeneration and all but there are other forms of regeneration that demons have shown access too. Life aid, life lift, mana aid, victory cry, spring of life and chakra walk are all skills that demons have access to that resemble regeneration as they are passive. And since demons are concepts/archetypes that are being injured by each other and are regenerating from each others hits, wouldn't they be regenerating their conceptual existence, since their existence is conceptual in nature? Forgive me if I'm missing something or if these skills were addressed already.
 
Slashermofo said:
Hard agree with everything except for the Regeneration stuff. I understand that demons coming back to life from being erased across all time isn't Regeneration and all but there are other forms of regeneration that demons have shown access too. Life aid, life lift, mana aid, victory cry, spring of life and chakra walk are all skills that demons have access to that resemble regeneration as they are passive. And since demons are concepts/archetypes that are being injured by each other and are regenerating from each others hits, wouldn't they be regenerating their conceptual existence, since their existence is conceptual in nature? Forgive me if I'm missing something or if these skills were addressed already.
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On the wiki, all of those aspects have to be destroyed for it to count, iirc. Just damaging it isn’t enough.
 
Udlmaster said:
I do not give a rats arse about what the arbitrary Translators have to say on the Matter. I only care about Official, auditable, translations. Until then, I will remain against.
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I don't understand how this is not auditable. The translators, the Japanese raws, and the proposed translation have all been provided. Requiring official translations is unrealistic. If you want another translator to have a look at it, go and find one.
 
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By the by, how much more input is needed before this can be closed? This has been, with the exception of one, been unanimously, universally agreed upon.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
By the by, how much more input is needed before this can be closed? This has been, with the exception of one, been unanimously, universally agreed upon.
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Really just need staff approval tbh. Considering how unanimously this has been accepted, probably just one or two more staff members citing approval would finish this up.
 
I have a Questions about the demons:
¿Are the demons going to have multiple keys? I mean, apart from his true incorporeal, abstract, intangible nature on the highest scale, also in his lower physical manifestations as X specific version (example Black Frost, He has a physical manifestation, but also in certain games he is a key character or protagonist, also are natives from The Expanse finally and free from all limitations and physical forms) If i am correctly right?
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Given that the Strange Journey Compendium entries for the Elementals all state that they are very specifically tied to the four prime elements that compose the world, I'm inclined to say that their influence is very literal. For instance, here's Aeros' description:
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Again I'm not 100% sure on the meaning of the word element in this context, from what I'm seeing it could very well be something more abstract than "is the source for natural disasters"
 
Question about SMT3:

¿What about the Kalpas, Vortex World, Manikin, Kagutsuchi, Sangai, Conception and other things/concepts?




諸の声聞に告ぐ－

This I deliver to the sravakas

我は未来世に於いて 三界の滅びるを見たり。

I saw the end of Trailokya in the future world

未来世(that's supposed to mean like the world after samsara)

輪転の鼓、十方世界に其の音を演べれば

For the drum of samsara echoes loudly throughout the world that is of ten directions

十方世界(there are 10 directions in Buddhism, apparently so this which is read jipposekai mean the whole world)

東の宮殿、光明をもって胎蔵に入る。

The palace of East, under great light, enters the world that is womb

(胎蔵 is the womb realm in Tantric Buddhism, and that's supposed to be the Vortex world)

衆生は大悲にて 赤き霊となり、

The unenlightened man under great sorrow and compassion becomes half-man half-devil

諸魔は 此を追うが如くに出づ。

The hordes of Evil comes and join him

霊の蓮花に秘密主は立ち 理を示現す。

The principles are incarnated by Vajrasattva in the birth of spirit

(理 was translated into Reason but apparently it means the principles of the world, so I used principle instead)

是れ即ち創世の法なり－。

And created is the new world.
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megatengaku.wordpress.com

1UP: “Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne”

“Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne”. 1UP, 3 April 2004. < Among the RPG cognoscenti, the wait has been long, but our prayers to Atlus have finally been answered: Shin Megami Tensei III is …
megatengaku.wordpress.com megatengaku.wordpress.com
Kaneko: This is a very frequently asked question, but the most difficult one to answer. I'm sure they all are influenced by something, but it's difficult to say exactly what. Once the theme of a game has been decided, I take everything I've come across in my life and synchronize it with that theme.

For Nocturne, I thought that the bubble structure of the universe which has been discussed in cosmology and the Gnostic view of the universe as a structure with multiple spheres were very similar. I added the hollow earth theory, and the Vortex Universe/World concept was born.
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megatengaku.wordpress.com

Nocturne Guide Interview

DoubleJump Publishing, Incorporated. Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne: The Official Strategy Guide. Onionbat, 2004, pp. 384-387. Offical website: It has only been recently, relatively speaking, that RP…
megatengaku.wordpress.com megatengaku.wordpress.com
(Gideon Zhi) What gave you the idea for the inverted Vortex World, and why did you choose this over other possible,more traditional world designs?

We chose this design because we didn’t think any other game had used it, and because we thought that when presenting a strange world, you can’t just make unusual structures within it to represent that, but you need to make the world itself unusual.

Now, as for the reason why we decided on the inverted Earth idea, there were a number of inspirations. It was like the galaxy-bubble creation formulated by the Gnostics in the earliest science, like the hollow earth theory and space colony construction of early science and sci-fi, and it was like observations on the shape of the universe based on quantum physics and the Hannya Shingyo (the Heart of the Wisdom Sutra, part of the Maha Prajfia Paramita Sutra (Great Wisdom Sutra), which is one of the greatest Sutras in Buddhism. -ed.).

At a glance, these things have nothing to do with each other, but if you think a bit, they have a lot in common, so you may want to look into these if you’re interested. Like the Manikins mentioned earlier, there are a lot of metaphors in the Vortex World. Incidentally, there is an energy conservation law in place concerning the contents of the Vortex, so for example if one Manikin dies (terminates), another is born (begins) without a moment’s hesitation. Due to this construction, the Reason war is inevitable. In the same way a substance can change between solid, liquid, gas, and plasma, the Vortex is also trying to change its form, but the result may be that it knows only its Reason. The original plan was to make the Vortex like a battlefield for you to run around in. You could see into the distant horizon, and if you look up into the sky you can make out terrain features and houses way in the distance. We thought this would certainly be a dynamic spectacle, but it made the game respond poorly so we put that aside. I hope we’ll be able to do it some day. -Kaneko
Click to expand...
 
 
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I should mention I do agree with the verse fusion, it's just the tier-based stuff I'm not knowledgeable on enough to judge. Except for 6-B which I don't agree with still
 
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