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Smite Revisions?

...where does the assumption that they are lesser now come from? I'm more curious than anything, I'd assume this is some past Oddyssey lore but I don't know where this comes from.

I disagree with Hou Yi for the Sunbreaker thing. If it was just lore and this distinction between "current form" and "peak form" then maybe but considering it shows Hou Yi performing the feat in-game with lore described in-game then I believe it would be fine enough to scale. Artio's in-game lore also fits the High 4-C thing but it doesn't really have reference in the core game.

As for size of the suns, we've established that the size in the game is weird? I don't know if you actually need the size in a scenario where it states "yes, this is the sun, it was shot down, it is an attack, go nuts kids".

So, just to catch myself up on the propositions on the table here.

  • My own idea is 7-A normal humans/monsters, High 4-C gods, Low 2-C for a few
  • Matt seems to have much of the same but Low 2-C is vastly more open
  • Perpetual believes gods have a Low 2-C true form in this higher plane and their lower plane (?) versions are At least 6-B, possibly 4-C scaling to Hou Yi calc
  • My counter to that is that if we go by that, lower forms should still just be considered High 4-C scaling to Hou Yi since I don't believe there's a huge need to call the size of the suns into question given the amount of lore supporting these being real and actual full sized stars
Am I missing anything that is currently relevant here?
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
Don't know about Sol but the 4-A statement was made because Zeus created the Sagittarius Constellation and thus, comparable gods aare considered as this.

Olorun being Universal is good for me, since he's a ruler god.

Sigurd Snake in The Eye Are we sure the gods need prayers ? Because it seems to me they're more or less equal to each other (for the regular gods at least).

Also, 'im very interested in making a Chernobog profile. What do you think about him ?
Click to expand...
It's mentioned in the comics they need worship and actually end up weaker without it

Mind you they still have crazy feats
 
If anything we could just make a separate key for comic stuff? Or different pages?

I'm not sure if the current idea is to ignore them or use them. I haven't read them if that's anything to consider.
 
What do you think Matthew and Zark? Do you agree with The Perpetual's or Mr. Bambu's analysis?
 
ThePerpetual "or at the very least the only one who is obviously free of the need to be empowered by mortals." Chernobog kills his own worshippers for fun and clearly he doesn't need them to stay powerful (as he is evil and darkness themselves) and Chronos is time itself so i don't think he needs worshippers either.

Mr Bambu The idea for the skins is that not all of them can or should be used, only those that have a very clear and specific role in the lore/story like the Ragnarok Hades. As for the cosmic skins, they could be good but i really don't know (Sol's cosmic skin is noted on her profile). I think a key should be good if we count them.

Hellbeast1 Yes, the comics are canon. It's more or less how the story starts.
 
I think I agree upon Low 2-C top tiers, as that is the highest tier potrayed with the lore research I did, and I suppose I agree upon the "higher plane of existence" forms being separated from the since I recall that statement being used somewhere. I doubt Kali should qualify on the Low 2-C table as the top tiers are listed differently in the Hindu Mythology ingame I suppose.

I am slightly doubtful for the 7-A humans/lesser gods as there is a slight interlap between them and High 4-C/6-B as I recall, especially in the Hindu Mythology.

I agree upon getting keys for skins as long as they hold in-lore significance only.

I'd like to point out my information on the lore itself is limited based on gameplay and reveal trailers only, as such my evaluation may not be the most reliable.
 
Just to be clear, wich gods will have Tier Low 2-C ? Olorun (and possibly the primordials) alone ? Will the top gods be put to that tier to or will they have another tier ?
 
@Zark

Thank you for the evaluation.
 
Hellbeast OK. Logical since they're the two most powerful gods in the verse (for now).Then all the other gods are High 4-C or can we put some of them to "At least High 4-C, likely higher", like the Primordials ?

Also is the 7-A accepted and if it is, will it be 7-A, High 7-A or "at least 7-A, likely higher" ?
 
Sounds right since they're still capable of fighting gods on (roughly)equal terms. Plus, as said above (i think), Hera decided to call Merlin and Arthur for help to slay Jörmmungandr.

So the only Low 2-C tiers would be Olorun, right ? Now, the top gods (Zeus, Odin, Ra, Set, Amaterasu, etc) will be Hig 4-C i suppose ? Also, the primordials (Nox, Nemesis, Terra, Geb, Chernobog, etc) will be High 4-C then ? Or we can put them to "At least High 4-C, likely higher" since, while still comparable, they're stronger than regular gods ?
 
"Persephone felt a wave of power radiate from Olorun as he rose. From his expression, she could tell that Hades felt it as well. The new king of Olympus had all the strength of Zeus or Odin. A god among gods. To confront him openly would be foolish, if not suicidal. It was no wonder Set had made himself scarce, and that Bellona and the other, more belligerent gods had not issued the expected challenges..."

- Smite Odyssey: Underworld

So, here we have Olorun directly stated to be comparable to previous pantheon heads: Zeus and Odin. And, if you'll recall, Zeus got stabbed and electrocuted to death by the other "lesser" Gods, so... there's no reason Gods on that level would not scale. Being less than another Gods does not entail infinitely less. Olorun, in turn, was harmed by Cerberus, further reinforcing that Pantheon Heads are within the reach of "lesser" Gods, and not- again- a literal infinity weaker.

Then there's King Arthur and Merlin facing off against Jormungandr, who- again- had just got done thrashing Thor...

Really, any attempt to separate these Gods into different Tiered brackets seems doomed to failure in the face of how they are actively portrayed in the actual canon. I'd sooner everyone just scale to Tier 2 of some kind and leave it at that, and abandon the Lore Level/Visible Incarnation Level distinction, than attempt to argue as a site that some of the characters that are consistently depicted as one another's general peers are actually stronger or weaker than one another by degrees of quadrillions or infinity. It's not like we're without precedent for similar verses that do this- that is, have characters that all scale to crazy powerful feats that are, very clearly, canon, yet also treat the destruction of Earth/end of the world as a big deal (in this case, Hell, there's even the justification of "all of the humans I get my power from live there, so yeah duh I have a vested interest in keeping it in order!")

So if it comes down to that, I'd say Tier 2 everyone before we go back to trying to use Gods' Lore feats to decide their general standing among the Gods... which was, really, the original problem that all of this was meant to fix in the first place.
 
ThePerpetual makes a good point.
 
The issue with comics aren't canonocity, just downright absurd inconsistencies. I just imagined we were nyxing them based on earlier comments, if we must scale everyone to Low 2-C then oh well I suppose.

As for Perp's wall. I knew I had remembered Odyssey having lore regarding Olorun's power as well, I had read up on it earlier today. So yeah, if anything god heads should be scaled to each other. I think the inconsistencies would be obvious here, having a god among gods killed by what is effectively their follower but hey, I guess we're just swallowing that as of now.

So, my opinion can be summed up as thus: I am not entirely against just scaling everyone to each other. I think it makes no sense and ultimately relies on PIS, but I cannot deny the existence of the feats. I think said feats are created in the name of inclusion of characters in the story and ultimately making the story about all of the gods rather than a handful of gods who can paste everyone else. But if the majority is in favor of scaling even the lowliest creature to Low 2-C (appears to be the case here), I cannot find fault in the feats.
 
Originally yes but the problem is that thechnically, all the gods are comparable to each to each other. It's basically the same thing that the Injustice series with people like Blue Beetle being able to fight and defeat Darkseid or Brainiac. If we go this way (everyone at Low 2-C), i think we should, at least put some of them to "At least Low 2-C, likely higher" because again, some (the primordials and Orlorun and Chronos) are more powerful than the likes of regular gods.

Either that or we do the 7-A, High 4-C and Low 2-C separated thing.
 
Yeah, seems like we're gonna do the "everybody is Low 2-C" thing. My problem with the latter could be summed up by "who will be Low 2-C" ? I mean, Olorun and Chronos of course would be but wh about the others ? The Primordials like Nox, Nemesis, Chernobog, Terra or Geb are naturally above the other gods but some people said they wouldn't scale to the two others so what, they would have been "At least High 4-C, likely higher" ?

Anyway, it seems that at least for now, Low 2-C for everyone will do it though again, i could suggest to make a "At least Low 2-C, likely higher" tier for some of them.
 
Not a real fan of this either but aside from that and the "7-A, High 4-C and Low 2-C" thing, we don't really have anything else. Like Perpetual said, the feats from the comics and the Odyssey show the gods are more or less equals so either we put them at this tier and make some of them "At least blablabla, likely higher" or we decide to ignore some feats and use the three tiers above, assuming no one has anytging to propose. Though i don't think it would be a really good option lol.
 
I am not well-informed enough to be very reliable for properly evaluating this. Sorry.
 
Well, hopefully ThePerpetual and the staff members can come to an agreement.
 
I... yeah. If "everyone scales to everyone" is all we have to go on, then it's what we have to go on, inconsistencies aside. It's just part and parcel of fiction, really, and there's definitely verses worse about it, but it still feels frustrating on some level if we'd have to accept Tier 2 everyone by default (which was the intent behind introducing the Gods as Portrayed, and Gods in their Prime/with Lore feats to begin with, really) when there's plenty of more tangible feats floating around in the story that would ground other ratings.

Of course, this also raises the question becomes just how far into Tier 2 we're looking at (which, again, probably would best be handled in a different thread)...

(Edit: The main reason Lore reason for considering their current selves to be less powerful than their Prime Selves, if I didn't make it clear earlier @Mr. Bambu, was simply that when the Comics speak of "the Gods inhabited a higher plane", it seems to speak in the past tense. When considering that their fighting in this higher plane was accidentally wreaking more destruction on the mortal world as collateral, and thus killing more of the people they're trying to protect and fight in the interests of, it seems feasible that they abandoned that state of being for at least the purposes of interacting with one another (essentially becoming more like superheroes than literal Gods), as (perhaps counter-intuitively) existing near them made it less likely that mortals would suffer the collateral of their conflicts.

Since this separate state of being doesn't seem to match up with their best feats, i.e. what we see described in lore, it thus seemed unfair to assume it would be capable of perfectly replicating everything they might have been capable of as inhabitants of this higher, godly mode of being.)
 
...of course, apparently even Current Incarnation Ra (if we were to consider him separate from his true self, though this seems probably untenable to the rest of y'all) just passively eclipses the Sun when his eye is taken. I don't know if that's an AP feat- I'd need to more closely reread the context and the scans- but if so, their Current Selves' low-end is almost definitely >>> 6-B+.
 
So what do you think ? We go with that or we continue with the idea of the higehr plane of existence and the sun thing ?
 
I would rather have that distinction still, yes, but I don't know if anyone else is on board with it. Admittedly it does require some general inference about the nature of the setting and the mindsets the characters are in, but that's the case for all of our potential answers here it would seem.
 
The SMITE verse is such a mess we could go so far to ignore some elements to create profiles that could at least be good. We should ask everybody that is interested with that verse what they can think about it. Personally, I believe that, whatever the final offer will be, there will still be some issues anyway. Honestly, i would rather see a distinction between at least some gods but if most people think its good, i would be fine with it.
 
Okay, I'm going to keep tally based on explicit statements on people's feelings of scaling the everyone to Low 2-C. Keep in mind this means... everyone. Hercules is equal to Olorun, Chronos is equal to Chiron, Baron Samedi is likely to lose a tussle with Merlin.

I'll call myself neutral on this. I see the point, if we ignore inconsistencies then this would indeed be the case. So this is more a tally to see general opinion on whether we take inconsistencies into account or not.

Hellbeast and Zark both explicitly lean towards considering inconsistencies. Perpetual obviously leans towards his proposal of Low 2-C everyone. Would everyone mind informing me of your opinion on the matter? No need for long walls of text, would just like to know the general belief of the thread.
 
It's using the highest level of feats performed by a character and scaling the entire verse to them, while ignoring the rest as "outliers"

With exactly the same logic, I can take the lowest levels of feats, like 8-C for destroying the tower, or hell, even like, 7-A and scale the entire verse to it, while ignoring their lore as "outliers". This will be me aggressively downplaying the entire cast, which is the same level as me wanking the cast.
 
...And why is scaling the Verse's Cast to the highest feats that we see in it, when we are constantly shown that these characters are on-par with one another, "wank"?

That's not demonstrating anything at all, just reiterating.

The assertion "X is Wank" means nothing if you can't explain why the reasoning behind that is of the same nature as the reasoning behind flatly ignoring vital aspects of a Verse's Setting and Storyline, which it would not coherently function without, in order to justify a lower rating.
 
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