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Smite Revisions?

Sounds logic. Just because she has one ability Olorun doesn't have doesn't mean she is above him. Though she is able to resurrect him at full power and it's mentionned in the lore i think she birthed all the gods, including him.
 
Lol @Sigurf Snake in The Eye getting recked by the skeletons. That does show the inconsistency of this verse though.

ok I was looking and Hera doesn't have a page that I'm aware of. Neither does Baron. Look at Hera's lore and a closer look seems to imply that physically and combatively she is lackluster completely dependent upon Argus her bodyguard for any combat related feat but with her powers she is able to influence even the gods and polymorph them into other things. I don't know if anyone is working on a page for her but where would she and Baron Samedhi stand (he's slightly physically superior to her according to her own a closer look lore)
 
@God

Yeah it's quite ridiculous...The god king of the verse getting owned by the pet of Hades and Skeletons.

Cerberus' reply was a billowing cone of noxious breath. Olorun gagged as the miasma enveloped him. Through tear-stung eyes, he saw Cerberus' serpent headed tail rise up over the hound's back, and undulate towards him, tongue flickering. Olorun was forced to release Cerberus' jaws in order to avoid its strike.



The snake darted towards him again, and he caught it by the head. "I do not wish to harm you, hound," Olorun said. "But I will if I must."



The snake spread its jaws and spat poison. Olorun roared as the stinging venom spattered over his head and shoulders. The pain was unlike anything he'd ever encountered. He flung the tail away, and Cerberus pounced, slamming him into the ground. Blinded, choking, Olorun loosed a blast of light, driving the beast back. He tried to get to his feet as the hound retreated, head spinning.



As if sensing his momentary weakness, the dead pounced. They tore at him with fingers and teeth, trying to pull him down. He brought his hands together with a crash, releasing a burst of light that sent the corpses flying.



He slumped. His strength was waning. He needed a moment to recover, but he doubted Cerberus would give him that opportunity. Hades and Persephone had planned their ambush well. Through the haze of poison, he saw that the others were faring little better. Horus, one wing broken, and his frame streaked with blood, stood back-to-back with Baron Samedi, who'd lost his hat somewhere.

As for their tier, I have no idea. Hera is prob not that weak i'd imagine considering all things. I think she just avoids direct combat since it's not her thing.

Baron is likely the weakest, we'll see. The current odyssey is only up to chapter 2 right now.
 
Apparently Hera took over Olympus in Zeus's absence and to prove that she is worthy of ruling, she to slay Jörmmungandr apparently. She asked for Merlin's and King Arthur's help to do so.
 
Honestly these profiles won't ever be accurate unless the lore is analyzed properly. An example of this...

Odin killed Ymir and made the planet Earth out of him, Ra also made the earth, The Orisha also crafted the world (planet). Ra is the sun itself, Sol pulls the sun across the sky, Amaterasu is also the sun, and Olorun also created the spark that would become the sun.
 
This is basically the same thing than God of War, with various pantheons of gods existing in different places on Earth with their own worshippers.
 
Yeah lol. Though i think his profile already exists.

Personally, like i said before, i'm interested into making profiles for Bellona, Chernobog, Set, Ah Puch, Kukulkan, Jörmmungandr and possibly Merlin, Loki, Samedi and Persephone...yeah, that's a lot.
 
That's the beauty of it all. And also where the confusion lies. Every nation and group of people on the planet has their own Pantheon of gods/God that they believe in. Each as a primordial figure that the rest spawn from and the lineage goes on and on for each Pantheon (Chaos, Olorun, etc.). In a setting such as SMITE where inconsistent data is rampant unless the creators of the verse specifically specify that this Pantheon is better than that Pantheon confusion will continue to exist. There are people to this day that still worships some of these Pantheons (Hindu, Egyptian, Chinese and Japanese etc.) so that could suffer extreme back lash which I'm sure they're trying to avoid by making one Pantheon to much better than the other. Yeah in the comics Ares beat Ra like he was a helpless child but the word of god states Ra and Zeus is equal. And Hades was about to make Anubis the newest chew toy for Cerebus. Sure Loki stole Zeus bolt and was superior to his brother Thor. Yet Athena shows up and aids the Norse and their soldiers and bam Loki goes down.
 
@ ArkhamDC06 I'm definitely interested in making the Olorun and Yemoja profiles. I was going to do Baron Samedhi but you can do a better job than I because I was going to guesstimate his statistics. I can do Hera but I'll have to have people verify her statistics before I begin. I'll also ask you guys to comment and review the pages to make sure their as accurate as possible.
 
So should I restore the Olorun page? You would have to decide an appropriate tier though.
 
Yes. What tier should Olorun be in before the page is restored? I had originally placed him at Low 2-C to 2-C scaling from Chronos based on the promotional material I linked in a post above.
 
Scaling from Chronos (SMITE) should probably be fine, but you have to mention it within the page and include a link.
 
Yes: "Low Multiverse level (He should scale to Chronos)", or something more elaborate.
 
God Aldamore Honestly, I have the same problem with those i prepared. I need to know what would be the tier of regular gods because if i make them now, i would have tpo put them to 4-A like ther others so it's better to do them after we made sure of the tiers for everyone. Apparently, it's all about a High 4-C thing. So in the end, you can have Samedi i think.

For Olorun, i'm very sure but at the very least, he is Low 2-C.

"Each as a primordial figure that the rest spawn from and the lineage goes on and on for each Pantheon (Chaos, Olorun, etc.)" Great, now i want to see Chaos in SMITE !
 
I asked because nothing in his lore or the closer look page suggests a good tier for him. I was thinking tier 5 but idk how he actually scales to everyone else. I mean I'm pretty much settled with Olorun and his tier 2-C scaling from Chronos and the fact that for now he's the supreme god in SMITE, and Yemoja being 5-B to 4-A or 3-A when reempowering the gods, and I'm confident that Hera should be tier 9 physically and tier 3-A (but if you guys feel different we can discuss it to finalize her tier) but with Baron he's just out there. I say he should be weaker than the head gods but I honestly don't know
 
He's clearly one of the strongest gods of the game. Now i don't know if he's truly comparable to Chronos but he surely is Universal (and more precisely Low 2-C) at least.

Hera Tier 9 ? Wow, this is probably the weakest tier for that game, i don't think she is that weak, it's just taht she prefers to use Argus and magic in battle but even then she's clearly not that weak.

Again, the big question is about the tiers for regular gods not head gods or primordials but gods like Ares, Bellona and co.
 
...I mean, if you're asking me, @Antvasima, I still emphatically disagree with most of what Sigurd has said.

1. You're starting from the assumption that this is wrong to begin with. Since when did numerous statements of "they fought and formerly existed on a higher plane" ever not constitute existing as such? The statements have never contradicted in any way since being introduced, which is far more relevant than the developers bringing it up every single time that Patch notes air, especially seeing as that point of the lore is no longer relevant to the Gods in the on-going odyssey.

2. See above. The Gods having at one point inhabited a higher plane of being is no longer relevant to the lore.

3. He directly, in the very scans I provided, both outright deflected Zeus's thunderbolts and damaged him with his own, making him comparable in power and speed: Loki would've died had he not shown up. This is the same Zeus we've taken to be 4-A, is it not?

I can use any number of examples from essentially any number of fictional franchises to communicate the same point. Any video game where falling damage or lava can harm characters consistently would put them at nothing higher than Tier 9 of some capacity, following the logic of "what can kill them puts a cap on what their Tier is", every superhero that can be harmed by bullets like an ordinary person becomes Street level (Wonder Woman, for example), and so on.

4. My point, more clearly, is as follows:

> Hou Yi demonstrates that he can, in some capacity, 'break suns' as described in his lore within the game itself. That is, his Not-Lore/Full Power self, but rather his current self, is capable of such.

> We have no reason to assume he would not be capable of such outside of the game, either, on account of both the maps in-game changing to fit the progression of the on-going story, and on account of that myth being the reason that he is considered a "God" to begin with.

> We also have no reason to assume that he somehow doesn't exist in Smite's canon... clearly he exists as part of the setting, so why even argue that? We see plenty of shots that Gods that aren't directly involved with the main story (Chinese Mythology's Guan Yu, for example, despite him having contributed nothing whatsoever to the story up to this point) in the Comics, so even using the Comics as an argument fails in that way.

So, if Hou Yi is not abnormally powerful as a God, then we can safely assume that other Gods are at least somewhat comparable.

And it would seem to me that yes, Hou Yi not even being relevant in the story seems to indicate that he's not exactly a major player power-wise. Because, again, all of the major players are simply more powerful.

You can be stronger or weaker than other Gods, and not jump Tiers such that one is trillions and trillions of times greater than another, so Olorun being 'the strongest God', currently, is not incompatible with anything I have posited up to this point.

5. ...yes, the lore is littered with contradictions, that's what happens when Every Mythology Is Canon. That's exactly why, agai, any of this is necessary at all. If we simply scaled every God from their lore freely, well- going by what scans and statements you've offered, even- we have...

> Cerberus grievously harms Olorun: 2-C Cerberus

> Cerberus is a direct underling to Hades, a greater god than he: 2-C Hades.

> Hades directly trades blows with Anubis: 2-C Anubis

> Anubis is subordinate to/a lesser God than Ra, who leads the Kingdom of the Sun: 2-C Ra

> ...who himself kneels before Olorun, as previously established, completing the circle and making everyone roughly comparable to everyone.

> Also, Hades is comparable to Zeus as one of the three "rulers" of the Greek Mythos, who as previously shown was wounded and killed by Loki and Ao Kuang: 2-C Ao Kuang and Loki.

> ...and again, Ao Kuang gets crushed by a building to death, supposedly, despite the last shot we see of him being that Hel is swinging the Ruyi Bang at him, directly after saying "You want it? Then you shall have it" in response to Ao Kuang's demand to have the Ruyi Jingu Bang. I... legitimately don't see how its possible to not read that context as "Hel hits him with the Ruyi Jingu Bang."

If you want 2-C everyone in the comic or on-going story ordinarily- which, again, is essentially every God, as you've explained that all of them have their lore elaborated on in their release patch as it relates to the ongoing story- you're essentially arguing for no distinction between Lore/optimal strength in their backstories, and what we actually see in their current selves. And, going by that system of doing things, we don't even need the Gods to inhabit higher planes of existence for them to be Tier 2, there's plenty of Gods that'd provide the scaling for such just fine on their own.

What I'm saying in essence is that their current selves, if asked, almost definitely would not be capable of feats like recreating the Universe, or growing to the size of a constellation. We're given almost exclusively the opposite of reasons to believe that they could do so.

(Really, I don't think that "most fit to rule" should be directly taken to mean Strongest to begin with. Zeus was "more fit to rule" than Janus, Nemesis, and the like, but still fears their power on some level. Hera, who took over after his death, doesn't exactly seem like a heavy hitter among the Gods... etc. Hell, the only actual feat we see corroborating Olorun being directly stronger than other Gods is using his time dilation hax on them successfully, so if we were to take him to be the strongest God, I'd not use reasoning like "because he was deemed the most fit to rule". It more seems to convey the supreme degree of confidence he has in his worthiness, and in his detached, objective understanding of the situation on account of being such a distant God. That Cerberus can harm Olorun only further demonstrates this...)
 
The Perpetual is a retired administrator. I trust his sense of judgement.
 
I would like to hear any more arguments, if they've not been made yet, don't take that to mean I don't see the other participants as making fair enough points (in particular, the current lore leaves unanswered how precisely All Mythologies Are Canon plays out, how other realities like King Arthur/Merlin's are involved, etc.) And, if anyone else would like to chip in, I'd not mind, either. This is simply still the only set of conclusions I am capable of arriving at given this evidence.
 
Retired ? I mostly agree with all that he said even if still think Olorun is among the strongest gods. The problem is how are we gonna do to know the tiers of all the gods ? I mean, by gameplay thing, they're all equal to each other. How are we gonna make the tier for regular gods and how are we gonna say what god is stronger than the others ?

I mean, Chronos being superior to the others is right but aside from that, what will be the based tier for gods ? We could make them 2-C really ?
 
I created the yemoja page guys. If you want to check it out then here. Please comment and let me know what you think. Or edit if you feel the need.

@ArkhamDC06 I meant physically not by her power and even then I'm second quessing that solely on the fact that in one of the links I posted (the one about the plane of existence) you can see that the gods are like 20 feet tall individuals which should mean that Hera should have more than that amount of strength at her base levels.
 
...of course, one potential solution to the issue of the statement's questionability is the almighty "X, likely Y" format. In that case, we can acknowledge that a statement or Tiering has a lot backing it up without committing 100% to its being certain, if that's a concern. Gods whose own lore leaves their power uncertain might have something like "Unknown, at least (Tier 2 of some kind)" listed under their true power, whereas Gods with more obvious feats of power in their Lore to back them up can have those listed as well ("At least Multi-Solar System level (insert justification here), likely (Tier 2 of some kind)", for example).

I don't know, that seems like a good enough compromise to cover all the ground mentioned now that I give it time to think, but what about you all?

And, side note- what sort of Tier would one's true form being a constellation grant them? I'm not entirely familiar with how the site evaluates feats like those in recent years.
 
I kind of agree with this. Don't think we're gonna find a way to truly get perfectly precised tiers for everyone. My idea is that, unless very specific cases (liek Cabrakan whose only feats evolve around his montains crusher thing), we should put all the gods on ther tier suggested by Perpetual. Then again, we can also have particular cases like Chronos and Olorun.

For the true form thing, are you talking about specific skins like the Void form for Chernobog (this : http://pm1.narvii.com/7115/851c91703d529a2c79b114f7c506e4953b6834ear1-388-512v2_00.jpg) ?
 
Here's the gist of what I'm understanding from the SMITE mythos.

1. The current God-Kings (Zeus, Ra, Odin, other king of the gods besides Olorun as he is a primordial) are depicted as giants around 20 feet in what I'm guessing is their true or base froms.

2. These God-kings and their pantheon members are around the same size to any other pantheon and when in their true godly size they are seen as giants to the humans. The comic depicts Xbalanque, Zeus, Odin, Ra around the same giant size on the mortal plane and it also depicts Thor and Ares as being around the same size (build, height) and Hel and Athena who are shown to be slightly smaller but are in the Realms of the Gods.

3. The reason for the fighting in the first place is because the humans started traveling and learning of other gods and beliefs and confusion arose from such traveling. When the gods saw this chaos ensued and the gods went to war to prevent the other pantheons from gaining more followers thereby preventing their rivals from gaining more power as devotion is the source of their power. Without devotion they are little better than the humans they depend on.

4. The war was waged in a higher plane of existence or at least a different realm as the comic states that the world the humans live in is lower than the world the gods live in which is higher but the conflict was still felt by the lower realm humans with natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, floods, earthquakes, and thunderstorms plaging the lands of the mortals. Afraid they began to pray and devote themselves even more to their various pantheons which only fueled the fires of strife between the gods.

5. Humans began to understand that the gods get their powers from devotion worship and a campaign to slaughter all devotees to religious mindsets began. The gods saw this and made a pact with each other to kill all humans for their sacrilege except for the gods who understood that if the humans die then so to do the gods who rely on the beliefs of little billy and jo jo to empower them. So two groups of gods were formed. 1 to kill of the mud people and the other to protect the weal little things. A brand new war ensues to bring balance.

6. Meanwhile in game statistics make everyone equal to each other for balance, lores are scattered and far reaching or gives to little detail to accurately place anyone, and all of the sources are questionable even the word of god which states one character is the god of all gods...
 
So what do you suggest for their tier ? Perpetual's idea is good i think but if someone has something else in mind that could fit...
 
Okay, can I give an opinion on this?

I have been looking at the SMITE profiles since I picked up the game months ago (hit level 50 last night).

Pantheon leaders/god king people should be Low 2-C. Olorun's lore states an aspect of himself created the universe and he's the God of Time, pretty clear cut Low 2-C. Supported by similar feats on the part of Chronos.

Normal gods should be High 4-C from the feats I actually know of. Hou Yi shot down nine suns, Artio is Ursa (Major? might be Minor, don't remember) which is a constellation of nine stars. So again, pretty clear cut High 4-C. 4-A gets brought up, I don't know the source of this (I haven't read all the lore yet so take this with a grain of salt).

Those that are lesser than gods (characters like Medusa, King Arthur, etc, anything that isn't god-status) can be at least 7-A scaling to Cabrakan, who made a valley with his fall (I calc'd this awhile ago).

Are there any major feats I'm forgetting? Specifically asking Perp but all are welcome to reply obviously.
 
Olorun replaced Zeus and pantheon heads should generally be comparable since they're like... battling each other and all. Plus, again, Chronos should scale to the Greeks who scale to mostly everybody, fairly self-explanatory for him.
 
Sounds good to me. So for example, gods like Bellona would get High 4-C while gods like Kukulkan and Chernobog would be Low 2-C. What about Merlin however ?
 
This is incorrect.

Literally none of the pantheon heads have anything Low 2-C besides Olorun (Full Power). Chronos isn't a god nor pantheon head. he's time itself and doesn't include himself in the war at all outside of gameplay.
 
Do we at least agree with the High 4-C thing proposed here ?

Olorun has a pretty good feat in his lore video (when he stomps the other gods) BUT it's possible to assume it's just a way to show how "cool" he can be and not a real statement given in the lore. Then again, it depends on your interpretation.
 
I say we use skins and quotes along with their lore. I've been researching and every god that I've read into on their voiceline page that has a cosmic skin is usually stating in their quotes that they are the very universe. Sol says this in her cosmic skin so thats why she is list as 3-A and Chenoborg says pretty much the same thing and he has a cosmic skin. Making the Cosmic Skins editions 3-A and any form below it 3-B-. Outliers like Olorun who is confirmed to be the God of Gods and King of the Gods should be 2-B plus and maybe if you guys think so the primordials as Olorun is a primordial too (but he would still have to be slightly or a grade higher than the others in his verse). We do know that Chronos and Ananke both created the universe in the official lore and it is stated that it is multiversal due to containing many different time lines. After reviewing Infinite Ruler Olorun voicelines he quotes ( "I see all in every universe and even I can not stop myself!" (Olorun) [this is directed to another Olorun]) so this also confirms that SMITE has multiple universes. His quote for his Consecrated Light ability in this form literally states "Watch the world crumble!" (same link) and he breaks the fourth wall with this quote "You! Yes. You! Starring at the screen. You think this is all just a game?" and when he interacts with Chronos he claims them to be kin but he is the superior of the two "We are kin and yet you lie on the floor, beaten and confused, while I am triumphant!" (Chronos).

In cosmic form some state that they are galaxies so 3-C+ for those that state that they are galaxies or universe or can peer into the other universes. 2-B+ for the primordials and if they have a cosmic form we can scale from there. My suggestion though. Take it with a grain of salt.

Also when I'm using the + I mean 3-C or higher but they could be on the low end of those tiers
 
Shouldn't we make a list to classify the gods ? I would suggest something like this :

- Primordials : Chronos, Olorun, Chernobog (yes he is this because he is officially stated to be the primordial embodiement of Darkness and Evil)

- Head Gods/Pantheon Leaders/Strongest Gods : Zeus, Odin, Ra, Set, Amaterasu, Izanami, Jörmmungandr, etc

- Regular Gods : Bellona, Ares, Persephone, Ainhur, Loki, etc

- Lesser Gods : Arthur, Medusa, Chiron, etc


Also, as i asked, is there any other issue than the Low 2-C thing or we can agree at least on the High 4-C thing ?
 
I'm fine with everything. If they have a cosmic skin or something I suggest we make a section and state that cosmic skins range from 3-C and scale upward depending on the character. Sol being 3-A in her cosmic skin. If we factor in that Chernobog has a cosmic skin he could be 2-C. His voicelines (quotes) state universal power but so does the lore of Olorun and we know he's 2-C to 2-B potentially 2-A in his Infinite Ruler Skin.
 
Chernobog actually has a cosmic skin, it's Galactic Void. That would give us 3-A normally and 2-C Galactic Void or is it something else ?

I agree for a cosmic skin key but i doubt Olorun being 2-A. He is Tier 2 yeah but 2-A ? What would be the justification for that ?

So we have High 4-C for normal gods and at least 7-A for lesser ones as proposed above. The final issue would be the head gods i guess ?
 
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