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Smash Bros tiering revision continued

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Looking good so far; iffy about Multiversal stuff, but 4-A is a bare minimum and support Low 2-C last time. Also, the moon example would need to take inverse square law into account.
 
I was asked to come here, but I’m both busy and probably nobody is going to agree with me. I think the smashers should be 9-A. There are a crap ton of anti feats against anything higher and I don’t think they scale to any of the bosses even with the spirits. But I’m at work right now so it’ll be a while for me to find at the 9-A feats. All of them require a crap ton of effort on the characters part though.
 
I support Low 2-C as usual as well

Its basically weird whenever they are a massive power gap behind Master Hand who they constantly beat in Classic Mode
 
I was asked to come here, but I’m both busy and probably nobody is going to agree with me. I think the smashers should be 9-A. There are a crap ton of anti feats against anything higher and I don’t think they scale to any of the bosses even with the spirits. But I’m at work right now so it’ll be a while for me to find at the 9-A feats. All of them require a crap ton of effort on the characters part though.
Pretty sure those are game mechanics
 
Having trouble breaking stuff or being completely wrecked by 9-A explosives isn’t a gameplay mechanic. People could see it as an outlier, but it wouldn’t be a gameplay mechanic. Though the bosses also consistently plow through the smashers too, even when the smashers win the alternate endings have the smashers being completely obliterated from the bosses in a single hit. Galeem literally kills everyone in the entire verse all combine with a single attack at the beginning and end of the game.
 
Having trouble breaking stuff or being completely wrecked by 9-A explosives isn’t a gameplay mechanic. People could see it as an outlier, but it wouldn’t be a gameplay mechanic. Though the bosses also consistently plow through the smashers too, even when the smashers win the alternate endings have the smashers being completely obliterated from the bosses in a single hit. Galeem literally kills everyone in the entire verse all combine with a single attack at the beginning and end of the game.
That's just Galeem, but the smashers go toe to toe with other bosses like Master Hand/Crazy Hand as well as Tabuu (Only attack that is truly superior to the fighters is the offwaves, canonically, Sonic was able to strike Tabuu's wings, which is proof the fighters are comparable)
 
True. Tabuu one shotted everyone in a cutscene but Sonic was shown to scale to Tabuu in a cutscene as well.
 
Wouldn't it be more like transmutation since he didn't really kill them, he turned them into objects???? That would just be hax
Would it be Hax? Mario and Pit or Link and Yoshi, beat the other up and they turned into objects.

King Dee Dee one shotted Luigi with his hammer and Luigi turned into a object.
 
We do see the characters becoming stronger as they traverse World of Light, namely by gathering spirits to back them up.
 
But Galeem also has spirits, a crap ton more spirits on top of that. He’s also the reason spirits are even a thing to begin with because he one shot literally everyone in the entire universe all combined, and he does it again at the end of the game.
 
Except they defeat every other spirit before getting to Galeem once more, and in the end of the game that only happens in the non-canon ending when they only go for Darkhon.
 
Except they defeat every other spirit before getting to Galeem once more, and in the end of the game that only happens in the non-canon ending when they only go for Darkhon.
No after they kill Galeem a crap ton more spirits can be seen. Galeem had to have had more spirits. Plus it doesn’t matter anyways, Galeem is stronger than literally every spirit combined because his one attack is why everyone is spirits to begin with.
 
No after they kill Galeem a crap ton more spirits can be seen. Galeem had to have had more spirits. Plus it doesn’t matter anyways, Galeem is stronger than literally every spirit combined because his one attack is why everyone is spirits to begin with.
And we don't know what became of them if we want to go there, and if we go by what happens, Galeem and Darkhon themselves become spirits they can use as well.
 
Galeem and Dharkon being spirits is like when Master Hand can be a trophy. It exist purely for gameplay purposes to give the player something for beating the game. Story wise them being spirits makes no sense. The spirits were set free when they died and Galeem and Dharkon were just straight murdered versus what Galeem did to make everyone spirits.
 
Is far superior to Arceus and Dialga

No evidence of this.

Has multiple reality fiction feats, he is the "link" between the Smash Bros universe and the "real world" and also said in the brawl trophy. Also, in Smash 64, when he is defeated, all the fighters turn into fiction (Unknown, just supporting evidence)

This can't be supporting evidence as it means nothing on its own. And the real world is just another universe in Smash that looks more real but yet all characters can be there.

Is the "source of creation" in the smash universe, please note that his creation contains

I pointed over more than 20 times that that was a mistranslation and nobody still gives a sh*t about it.

He has Power bordering on the absolute (Unknown, just supporting evidence)

This can't be supporting evidence as it means nothing, that's basic, do I need to give an example of any character of any big tier that does not have "It's suuuper powrful" in its AP for its tier (If it isn't to point out how they're > other character)?


Correct.

Should be superior to his own subspace weapons which can "infinitely rend space" (High 3-A)

Since we know Galeem affected other universes (Like Purgatorio), there is a chance that we can assume it affected them just like he did with the universe (Which would be 2-C to 2-A)

I already pointed out what was wrong with this, if you want to bring it up again then it would be considerative to find what I said on it, otherwise it forces me to say it again or find it myself.

Destroyed the entire Universe (3-A)

Correct.

A bunch of context and things said were not carried over for the last threads, what is even the point for you to make this thread? Do you want people to figure out what was already figured out before from 0? Do you want people to spend time with comments talking stuff and making up their minds while the things from the last threads are brought up 1 by 1 by "others" (I alone really) for the rest to change their minds eventually? Why didn't you, who made this thread, brought the conclusions and arguments from the last threads? That's what I would have done if I were you under any other similar context. There is no progression here, this may not be a simple thread but I need to go back to find all the stuff I said before and bring it back here when I already have other things to do and am beyond tired of being ignored on things I said a ridiculous amount of times before. Couldn't you have at least told me that you were going to do this thread before if you were going to do this?
 
So, between the tier of the cast based on their feats, the tier of the top-tiers, the would-be scaling to them, and scaling to the Galeem & Darkhon via Spirits, there are a bunch of things to talk about here. Let's not go in circles and deal with the tiers of the top-tiers first, as that came from the threads before this one. If we do so we may even finish everything in this thread, at best.
 
A bunch of context and things said were not carried over for the last threads, what is even the point for you to make this thread? Do you want people to figure out what was already figured out before from 0? Do you want people to spend time with comments talking stuff and making up their minds while the things from the last threads are brought up 1 by 1 by "others" (I alone really) for the rest to change their minds eventually? Why didn't you, who made this thread, brought the conclusions and arguments from the last threads? That's what I would have done if I were you under any other similar context. There is no progression here, this may not be a simple thread but I need to go back to find all the stuff I said before and bring it back here when I already have other things to do and am beyond tired of being ignored on things I said a ridiculous amount of times before. Couldn't you have at least told me that you were going to do this thread before if you were going to do this?
Well, if you think you can do a better job and that I am making things worse, then you can close this thread and make your own thread
 
No need, I took the time to update this old blog:


It covers the feats claimed here, if you agree that something is objectively wrong then you can remove it from the sandbox, if you disagree with something I say then we can argue that here.

This only going over the tiers of the top-tiers, I didn't do anything for the rest for now and we should again go over it later.
 
Isn't Sephiroth's final smash a pretty good feat for the fighters? It's not the exact same as the FF7 version, but could probably still get them anywhere from 5-B to 4-B.
 
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I don't think we should use that specific trailer, since that's not how Galeem was defeated in canon.
Ah, I see.
Anyways, so master hand seems to have created the smash bros universe in its entirety. He would still be low 2-C. But he seems to exist in the real world so that gives me a question. Who is master hand exactly?
 
So, between the tier of the cast based on their feats, the tier of the top-tiers, the would-be scaling to them, and scaling to the Galeem & Darkhon via Spirits, there are a bunch of things to talk about here. Let's not go in circles and deal with the tiers of the top-tiers first, as that came from the threads before this one. If we do so we may even finish everything in this thread, at best.
Focus would help.
 
Ah, sorry.

I agree with scaling everyone to Low 2-C, with 4-A at minimum.

However, the trophy descriptions of Palkia and Dialga are obviously referring to their Pokémon (series) counterparts. If we don't scale everyone to their canon selves, what makes Palkia and Dialga the exception?
 
Not reading what's above nor responding to it makes your agreement lack relevance. Please put attention before sharing an opinion like that, otherwise I'm going to be forced to make this into a staff thread if I'm too tired and unable to keep up with everyone always ignoring everything on a regular basis.

That's false, all the characters in Smash have a small part of their canon in Smash, to the extent of only what the games prove it to be so, and in the way that the games prove it so be so, even if it's not the same as in their canon. Those descriptions proving that Smash's versions of Palkia and Dialga did that means that they did that. You cannot look at the lore choose at random what goes for the Smash version of the characters and what's only talking about their canon version.
 
I don’t think Sephiroth’s feat is legitimate. The reason we use it for FF is because that game goes out of its way too say it is real. In smash bros the super nova causes the sleep and stun status effect, so I think they made the same mistake like 90% of people do when talking about Sephiroth’s super nova: Thinking it is a mental attack. In Final Fantasy it isn’t, but in smash bros it causes mental damage and has zero proof of being real. It also is a gigantic outlier since there are a crap ton of 9-A feats. I finish my summer classes tomorrow, so I’ll gather a list of feats on Friday. Also Sephiroth is a dlc character, so I don’t think he’s even canon to smash ultimate since he doesn’t appear in the first cutscene or as a collectible character throughout the story mode. Plus his intro cutscene literally has him contradict the entire story of the game.
 
I don’t think Sephiroth’s feat is legitimate. The reason we use it for FF is because that game goes out of its way too say it is real. In smash bros the super nova causes the sleep and stun status effect, so I think they made the same mistake like 90% of people do when talking about Sephiroth’s super nova: Thinking it is a mental attack. In Final Fantasy it isn’t, but in smash bros it causes mental damage and has zero proof of being real. It also is a gigantic outlier since there are a crap ton of 9-A feats. I finish my summer classes tomorrow, so I’ll gather a list of feats on Friday. Also Sephiroth is a dlc character, so I don’t think he’s even canon to smash ultimate since he doesn’t appear in the first cutscene or as a collectible character throughout the story mode. Plus his intro cutscene literally has him contradict the entire story of the game.
Considering there's also the precedent of Smash taking Bayonetta's Witch Time as time manip when it's just an speed amp in the original canon, I agree with this.
 
I’ve made a kinetic energy revision recently and if it goes through the 7-A feats for smash bros get nuked. So smash bros is either going to be low 2-C (or 3-A based off Eficiente) or 9-A there isn’t an in between anymore. Considering all the 9-A feats, a ton of them requiring effort, even with spirits. I think Galeem and Dharkon should be 3-A and everyone else would just be 9-A. Even with spirits they shouldn’t scale to Galeem as he: one shot everyone in the entire universe all combined so combining a small faction of the spirits shouldn’t make them on par with Galeem, even with the spirits in one of the ending Galeem one shots everyone anyways even while weaken by fighting with Dharkon and having his spirits taken, and in the end he still has more spirits than the main cast has he has thousands of them compared to the hundreds the player can get at Max, so he would have more of the same power source the characters have. Ignoring how spirits only exist because Galeem nuked everyone all combined.

Plus with spirits the characters still get consistently wrecked by 9-A explosions and can barely destroy sections of a building even with their strongest charged attacks.
 
Neutral as well


9-A explosions

I’m not familiar with what is being used for that rating but I also particular don’t believe Bomb-Bombs should be treated with the same criteria as real bombs and explosions, if that’s what it’s referring to.
 
I’m referring to literally every explosive in the game. All of them range from 9-B to 9-A.

Like the super Bomb, the land mine, Steve’s tnt, Link’s bombs, meta Knight’s stage canon bomb, etc.

Edit: the Bombs on the skyscraper level could be calculated. They blow up quite a bit of concrete so they may get 8-C results.
 
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