Small problem with kinetic energy calcs

[Keeweed]

I’ve notice a problem with kinetic energy calcs and I’m finally in the mood to talk about it. Pretty much in games you can shoot guns or summon lightning at people when they do certain actions that would count for KE. Like Uraraka can throw large boulders at you while another character uses a electricity based attack. If the boulders are calculated along with the electricity it’s ap sky rockets because the boulders are now moving Mach 1.

This comes up in plenty of game KE calcs since nothing stops you from shooting a gun or a bow when large objects are being thrown at you or a large enemy is trying to shoulder tackle you.

However I do not believe these speed feats should be used for the KE calcs. This is because these speeds feat don’t have canon reasons to be happening during the events.

A good example of what would count versus what wouldn’t:

Would count for KE: In Sekiro the boss that has the KE calc is the one summoning the lightning. He has a canon reason to be near the lightning at the time as he’s the one causing it, so him being comparable to his lighting is fine.

Wouldn’t count for KE: Meanwhile for something like Smash Bros (and Terraria’s old calc but we don’t use that for other reasons, just would be a good example for what I’m referring to here) the projectiles the events are compared to don’t happen at the same time in canon. There is no canon reason to compare the moon’s or the king slime’s tackle to the projectiles because those projectiles don’t interact with them in canon. Instead the distance they are shown to move, without external factors that aren’t canon, should be used.

TLDR (someone explained this vastly better than I could): If the speed is only there by coincidence, then it shouldn’t be used.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Yeah I agree with this, it feels like gameplay mechanics for the objects to seem to move at tandem when there is a good chance the projectiles either don't move as fast as they should or the authors didn't care.

And on the calcs that those happen, there tends to be a lack of canon events outside of actual lore.

 

[Armorchompy]

I agree with this wholeheartedly, it's really just a weird and convoluted way to try and push a verse's ratings higher.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Oh yeah. Time to downgrade a plethora of verses even harder.

 

[Armorchompy]

Oh yeah. Time to downgrade a plethora of verses even harder.

Yes. Literally yes. If a verse uses flawed logic then it should be downgraded. It's pretty obvious when you put it that way, actually.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Basically we shouldn’t utilize gameplay to derive inflated kinetic energy calculations?

 

[Keeweed]

You shouldn’t use purely gameplay would be more accurate. Sekiro’s feat happens during gameplay, but it should still be usable.

My problem more has to do with the speed and KE feats not being canon to each other.

For example: If the player characters only weapon is a gun and they are fighting a building sized monster that attacks by shoulder tackling them then using the bullets for a comparison speed should be fine. Because there is a canon reason for the speed feat to be happening at the same time as the charge.

Meanwhile for things like Smash bros pikachu’s lightning and the moon dropping never happen at the same time in canon (as the moon dropping is a random event that also never happens in the canon story), so using the lightning for the KE has no canon basis.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We don't normally use kinetic energy for things such as a character swinging a giant hammer and it moves faster than a lightning bolt. I know there was the old Smash Bros profiles calculations that used stuff like that, but those calculations were super iffy.

 

[Keeweed]

I believe we still use KE for very large characters/objects. Not normal sized people, but I was trying to make that clear in my post.

This just applies to KE calcs that are currently being used, because I know a few of them get their speed from things that don’t have canon reasons to be there during the feats.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I still think giant characters swinging giant swords at great speed should still be used; the primary issue was stuff like Spider-Man rescuing the Hulk; it was seen as a superhuman speed feat but not so impressive strength wise. And thus the Low 7-C calculation was rejected. But giant characters moving ultra fast are still widely seen as crazy high both ways.

 

[Keeweed]

I think you are completely missing the point of this thread. This has nothing to do with what feats are usable or not. Heck one of the currently accepted calcs I’m using as an example is a character swinging a massive sword.

What this thread is about is taking speed feats and using them with KE feats despite them having no canon reason to be connected. If the speed feat has a canon reason to be used (like the enemy summons lightning while throwing massive structures at you) then it can be used. But the player character having an option to summon lightning during a KE event shouldn’t count as there is no reason to assume they did this in canon.

 

[Blahblah9755]

If your main argument is that the events shouldn’t be happening at the same time, or are only simultaneous by coincidence and not by conscious design choice, then shouldn’t the speed comparison be the part that’s unusable, and the KE unusable just as a side effect?

 

[Keeweed]

It’s late where I am so sorry if I’m misunderstanding your post a bit. (If I’m reading your post right, it’s a great summary of what I’m trying to say, but it has a question mark and I feel like I’m missing the question due to tiredness)

Yeah the speed wouldn’t be usable, thus making the KE calc’s results vastly lesser. You can still do a KE calc because there is still a feat, it just wouldn’t have overblown speed because the speed feats only happen from coincidence.

Edit: Going to bed, be back tomorrow

 

[Thelastmlg]

I believe he means, for example, realm of the mad god characters are losing their tier 7 stuff for example due to abusing gameplay mecahnics/oversight

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's from gameplay, I see the reasoning for it yeah. Cutscenes are a different story, but the playable battlefield does have iffy methods for calculations.

 

[Keeweed]

You guys make it sound like we would nuke all gameplay KE feats. I think ones that have justifiable speed feats should still be fine. Like Sekiro is a perfect example the lightning is there in canon because the boss constantly summons it, so using it for his speed is fine. My problem isn’t with gameplay, it’s with speed feats that are only there by coincidence are used. If the speed feat has canon reasons to be there (the boss summons it in tandem with his KE attack or the play character’s only weapon is something like a gun that can be used for speed feats at all times) then the feat should still be fine. This would nuke stuff like Terraria’s and Smash Bros’ KE calc, but things like Bloodborne and Sekiro would be fine (though I do want to somewhat downgrade Bloodborne’s KE calc for an unrelated reason).

 

[Keeweed]

Bump

 

[Keeweed]

Bump

 

[Keeweed]

I was busy around the time this thread died, but now I should have plenty of time. Bump: this thread is actually pretty important for many games.