Speed from Heat Standards

[Agnaa]

Why is this included on our references for common feats page?

It cites an article that gives us almost zero information on how that information was attained.

The only thing that article gives a source for is:

Bodies are typically cremated at around 1,500°C and aircraft research from NASA reveals that you’d need to be running at Mach 5 (6,000km/h) to reach that temperature.

Even then, it just says that NASA said that, without providing a source for us to check. And the actual part we use for the common feat isn't given any explanation or citation at all.

And generally, I feel like this runs into issues akin to deriving speed from KE. Apparently we already rejected this calc for giving a speed of Mach 5 to a massive baseball being on fire.

Where should our lines be drawn for these sorts of feats?

 

[KLOL506]

Pretty sure we chose the Mach 2 end as per DT, but he can explain better. Or Ugarik.

 

[Agnaa]

@DontTalkDT @Ugarik

 

[Flashlight237]

On one hand, NASA isn't anything we should ignore. On the other hand, I can agree that lacking a citation is a good indicator that we shouldn't buy it.

 

[Agnaa]

On one hand, NASA isn't anything we should ignore. On the other hand, I can agree that lacking a citation is a good indicator that we shouldn't buy it.

Even if that statement is what NASA actually said, it'd only really apply to aircraft. Humans have a different coefficient of friction and surface area, so they'd get heated up at certain speeds to a different extent.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Personally, I would be fine with not using heat to speed feats for the same reason we don't use Ke to speed.
Although I would make an exception for the ablation of meteors, since it's one of the more reliable low-end indicators for the speed of ones that don't (necessarily) come from space.

 

[Agnaa]

Well, what's the action plan for now?

Wait for more input? Remove the calc from the references for common feats page?

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[KLOL506]

Bump. Did this get resolved?

 

[Agnaa]

Seems like there's a slight incline against using these sorts of feats, but it doesn't feel definitive to me.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump!

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Pretty sure the Queen one was rejected because it was called slow by other characters and stuff

 

[KLOL506]

DT apparently won't be back until 15th.

It's 15th in my place, but time zones.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, like with the previous proposal, the 0.5 * M * V^2 is technically a lowballed number since it excludes relativity (Especially Sub-Relativistic and above). So while getting AP from speed can be fine in some circumstances, getting speed from AP could highball speed. And generating fire from punches could just be fire production rather than raw speed that heats up the air.

But DT said meteors and comets might be exceptions since there is often a minimal speed for certain effects to happen.

 

[Agnaa]

Personally, I would be fine with not using heat to speed feats for the same reason we don't use Ke to speed.
Although I would make an exception for the ablation of meteors, since it's one of the more reliable low-end indicators for the speed of ones that don't (necessarily) come from space.

Knowing more about this topic now, is that really a low-end? When I see calcs like this, where tiny meteors (10cm radius, using pixel-scaling standards accepted for the verse) magically pop in from out of nowhere, and then travel for a dozen meters before vanishing, treating them as moving at 2000 m/s feels like a bit of a high-end to me.

Especially when we require zero proof that they're on fire because they move fast, as opposed to the fire being created along with whatever magical effect can create matter (and almost always, fire by itself in other cases) out of nowhere in such verses.

Although, I can still see it being useful if we know a decent amount about how the power works (that it just creates rocks hundreds of meters in the air with no intrinsic heat, or telekinetically brings them from somewhere else in the planet). But making 2000 m/s our default for cases with zero information besides "hot spheroid" seems a bit far.

 

[GoldenBooster445]

Bump

 

[Hypertornado099]

Bump

 

[Ugarik]

I'm sorry about nerco but I actually derived the formula here

 

[Agnaa]

That sounds much better. I still have the concern about deriving speed that way, but if we do, that would be a much better way to do it.