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Slay The Princess Page Creation Discussion

Qawsedf234 said:
Well the thing is ultimately that Bird Man is infinite compared to the finite Construct, but the real universe is large enough to contain the Long Quiet.

So it has to be a bigger infinity.
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I wanted to use absolute reality thing to justify a +1 dimension type deal since that's what negative theology (also equivalent to philosophical idea of absolute reality and divine simplicity) is currently equated to. With Ultimas proposal it would at best be 1-A since tier 0 is contradicted.
 
Eh do we really want a key for the Stranger?
Outside stats she really doesn't have unique powers?
 
Tllmbrg said:
Eh do we really want a key for the Stranger?
Outside stats she really doesn't have unique powers?
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Unless we want to give every path a key, the Stranger could just be an AP justification for a Multitude key.
 
Let's not talk about wanking anything. Let's try to be as accurate as possible even if that results in lower ratings.

I'll try to get the Apotheosis calc in a blog later today.
 
Tllmbrg said:
Eh do we really want a key for the Stranger?
Outside stats she really doesn't have unique powers?
Click to expand...
She would ostensibly be difficult to kill, as she is spread out across a structure of infinite possible outcomes rather than being confined to a single causal chain, as far as I understand it.
 
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Anyone have any comments for the calc

Edit: already found a mistake myself lol
 
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Apotheosis should be subsonic speed via sheer size
 
I might be able to get a rough size for Apotheosis based on how much of her is sticking out of the hill
 
JY9WIam.png

So, assuming her feet are standing at the base of the hill, and given about 80% of her is sticking out... she is about 4 times taller than the hill here.
Hill = 56.368 meters
The Apotheosis = 56.368 m * 4 = 225.472 meters

The Apotheosis should be "Large Size (Type 2; looms over an entire hill)", and her speed should be "at least Subsonic via size alone".

EDIT: I have added those things to the profile
 
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All forms of Princess should get Subjective Reality. Not sure if we should give them Plot Manipulation as well, The Construct is essentially set up as a "narrative" in-universe so it might be accurate to give all characters that ability while inside the Construct.

Additionally, we've overlooked Immortality (Type 9):
9: Transcendental Immortality: Characters whose true selves exist independently from the plane where they can be killed.
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I believe this is technically the case with the Princess and the Hero (their existence while playing their respective "roles" are not their true selves, and killing the Princess only works when the Hero honestly believes that the Princess is truly dead (which would only bypass Type 9 because of the Subjective Reality stuff).

Also, I've noticed that many of the chapter 2 forms of the Princess don't have "same as Base minus Peak Human Physical Characteristics". I think practically all the Chapter 2 and 3 forms still have Immortality (Types 2, 4, 8, and possibly 9), Subjective Reality (and possibly Plot Manipulation if we decide on adding that), and Resistance to Pain Manipulation.

The Adversary has a second potential level of Immortality (Type 4), as the Voice of the Stubborn can end up thinking "The Princess cannot die" which results in her immediately resurrecting on the spot without having to reincarnate as another version of herself.
 
Jaften said:
Also, I've noticed that many of the chapter 2 forms of the Princess don't have "same as Base minus Peak Human Physical Characteristics". I think practically all the Chapter 2 and 3 forms still have Immortality (Types 2, 4, 8, and possibly 9), Subjective Reality (and possibly Plot Manipulation if we decide on adding that), and Resistance to Pain Manipulation.
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I thought it was implied by the name "Base" that all other princesses share her abilities but fair enough

Also this reminds me, should we include more Chapter 3 Princesses?
There is the fleshy one for example, and the Giant Beast one

Otherwise agree with the rest
 
Fleshy one is The Fury, I think. The chapter 3 Beast is known as "The Den". And yeah, both are noteworthy enough I guess.
 
Jaften said:
Not sure if we should give them Plot Manipulation as well, The Construct is essentially set up as a "narrative" in-universe so it might be accurate to give all characters that ability while inside the Construct.
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Personally I wouldn't say any of the form meet the Metafictional requirements for plot manipulation. The script stuff is more the PC not following the chosen path of the Echo in my view.

Jaften said:
Adversary has a second potential level of Immortality (Type 4), as the Voice of the Stubborn can end up thinking "The Princess cannot die" which results in her immediately resurrecting on the spot without having to reincarnate as another version of herself.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's really Type 4. As the Echo mentions at the end neither the Long Quiet or the Shifting Mound can experience death. Neither dying is the same thing as Razor Princess being casually destroyed by a empty minded Long Quiet, since reality is ultimately completely under their control and subjected to their whims.

I mean I guess it technically may be considered resurrection but it feels more like a byproduct of another power.


Jaften said:
Fleshy one is The Fury, I think. And yeah, that one and the giant Beast are noteworthy enough I guess.
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The Fury would get biological manipulation for the organ explosion feat.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I don't think it's really Type 4. As the Echo mentions at the end neither the Long Quiet or the Shifting Mound can experience death. Neither dying is the same thing as Razor Princess being casually destroyed by a empty minded Long Quiet, since reality is ultimately completely under their control and subjected to their whims.

I mean I guess it technically may be considered resurrection but it feels more like a byproduct of another power.
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It's apparent resurrection which is all that matters, just like the base Princess has apparent reincarnation.
 
Jaften said:
The Adversary has a second potential level of Immortality (Type 4), as the Voice of the Stubborn can end up thinking "The Princess cannot die" which results in her immediately resurrecting on the spot without having to reincarnate as another version of herself.
Click to expand...
I mean, every one of them has Immortality Type 4 through their Subjective Reality. If you kill the Princess in Chapter 1 without asking questions, but then feel it's too easy and check her pulse, that very thought brings her back to life.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Personally I wouldn't say any of the form meet the Metafictional requirements for plot manipulation. The script stuff is more the PC not following the chosen path of the Echo in my view.
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure about that; the Narrator can make stuff happen just by narrating it. He can make the door to the basement close and lock itself, he can make the blade toss itself down the stairs if you leave it behind, he can take control of the Hero's body to make him attack the PRincess from behind, he can physically stretch the hallway in the Specter route, he blocks your path with thorny vines if you try to leave with the Princess in the Thorn route. The Narrator has no physical body to make these things happen and there's no evidence that he simply has these very specific powers somehow; the Princess's subjective reality is also not the culprit because that requires a person to perceive her and the Echo is explicitly not a person and thus cannot perceive of the Princess, which is precisely the reason the creator of the Construct made the Echo in the first place. So, I think this is just an ability the Narrator (and the other two characters, once they realize it) has in the Construct because of its very nature.
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
I mean, every one of them has Immortality Type 4 through their Subjective Reality. If you kill the Princess in Chapter 1 without asking questions, but then feel it's too easy and check her pulse, that very thought brings her back to life.
Click to expand...
That should also be put on the profile (limited as it is, seeing as how she still dies immediately after killing the player)—however, the Adversary's type 4 is still yet different from that, as they just explicitly come back to life over and over again without reincarnating.

The Hero in the Razor route also seems to have this power, as they get killed by the Princess over and over before finally looping.
 
Jaften said:
Narrator can make stuff happen just by narrating it. He can make the door to the basement close and lock itself, he can make the blade toss itself down the stairs if you leave it behind, he can take control of the Hero's body to make him attack the PRincess from behind, he can physically stretch the hallway in the Specter route, he blocks your path with thorny vines if you try to leave with the Princess in the Thorn route. The Narrator has no physical body to make these things happen and there's no evidence that he simply has these very specific powers somehow
Click to expand...
Well we have direct evidence of how he makes those happen: he convinces the PC that they happen. All the scenarios that happen in the game are because the PC believes it to be a certain way and reality adjusts itself to fit his perception.

It's why in the Razor route wants the PC clears their mind the world instantly becomes its default appearance and once the Narrator is silenced even cabin space is removed. Since all those things are entirely based on how the Long Quiet sees reality.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Well we have direct evidence of how he makes those happen: he convinces the PC that they happen. All the scenarios that happen in the game are because the PC believes it to be a certain way and reality adjusts itself to fit his perception.

It's why in the Razor route wants the PC clears their mind the world instantly becomes its default appearance and once the Narrator is silenced even cabin space is removed. Since all those things are entirely based on how the Long Quiet sees reality.
Click to expand...
Not... really? He never has to convince the PC of what he's narrating about the world around him. He makes a statement, and what he stated happens. And it happens before the PC is even fully aware of what's going on, in fact. The door closes to the basement before the Narrator even says it closes, and the blade is thrown down the stairs before he even mentions it to the PC.

The only time the Echo would have to convince them is when he changes something and one of them actively rejects the change by narrating themselves.
 
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Jaften said:
Things narrated by the Echo often happen before the PC could have been "convinced" that they happened.
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Usually they happen in tandem. But like with the Razor Princess scenario, we're shown that the world itself is completely bound by the inner voices of the PC. When all the voices are suppressed the world is reduced to a default state, and when the Echo is suppressed the world is turned into the nothing of the Long Quiet. Overall I don't think the Echo has any real power. Its always why the Echo tries to guide the PC in a way that makes the Princess stronger and to prevent her from coming back.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Usually they happen in tandem. But like with the Razor Princess scenario, we're shown that the world itself is completely bound by the inner voices of the PC. When all the voices are suppressed the world is reduced to a default state, and when the Echo is suppressed the world is turned into the nothing of the Long Quiet. Overall I don't think the Echo has any real power. Its always why the Echo tries to guide the PC in a way that makes the Princess stronger and to prevent her from coming back.
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Well, since matches would observe Reality Equalization and thus would be assumed to be "inside the Construct" (and also the profile would assume apparent P&A from that perspective as well), what apparent ability do you think this would be?
 
Jaften said:
This, for example. How does he convince the PC that the door shuts right in front of him, shouldn't he see that it isn't moving and not believe the Narrator's words?
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At this point, the Player considers the Narrator to be an objective voice. So if he says the door slams shut and is locked, he believes it is locked. It's like when you know you've locked yourself in a room but still try the handle.

More importantly, we have proof that what the Narrator says isn't a fact. In the 'Happy Ending,' you kill the princess and he tells you you are happy. If what he said simply became real, then we would be happy, the Voice of the Hero would be happy, and we would have no reason to kill ourselves.

However, the Voice of the Hero says they aren't really happy, and that he's just saying they are. It's up to the Player whether to believe him or not, if you do, you're 'Happy', if you don't you.
 
Jaften said:
Well, since matches would observe Reality Equalization and thus would be assumed to be "inside the Construct" (and also the profile would assume apparent P&A from that perspective as well), what apparent ability do you think this would be?
Click to expand...
Its 100% Subjective Reality imo. Unless the character can resist passive hax from a Low 1-C they would be effected by the PC's perception of them.

Which can be a good or bad thing depending on the case.
 
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