Skullgirls DLC characters CRT: Part 1 (Annie)

[BlackDarkness679]

Why we need to be strict with something that aint light or lightning tho really, i never seen anything else needing more proof to be accepted besides being called the thing they were on this wiki, also the case i kept saying above for a different character accepted as such"

As for color issue: "Do cosmic rays have color?

The flux for the lowest energies (yellow zone) is mainly attributed to solar cosmic rays, intermediate energies (blue) to galactic cosmic rays, and highest energies (purple) to extragalactic cosmic rays."

Annie beam is also purple, just checked now, its not multi colored or anything, her move set is based on a bunch of cosmic stuff which she makes use of, she summons one with Sagan to shoot the opponent, its pretty straight forward honestly

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Bump

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Bump

We need input, last i remember only two opinions were given on the whole CRT as of right now

 

[BlackDarkness679]

BUMP

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Bumping again

 

[Antvasima]

What Saman and Medeus have accepted can probably be applied, but not what either of them have rejected.

 

[SamanPatou]

I think we only need final input from someone who's knowledgeable on these cosmic rays thing, if there is any.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Medeus didnt properly read what the thing he rejected was suggested actually, Saman didnt respond to that topic last time i left a message on it

It needs more input on all this overall, 2 staff have done so on everything

 

[SamanPatou]

Why we need to be strict with something that aint light or lightning tho really, i never seen anything else needing more proof to be accepted besides being called the thing they were on this wiki, also the case i kept saying above for a different character accepted as such"

Because just like light and lightning it might be just called in that way but not have the properties of the real thing, cosmic rays are just more exotic.

 

[SamanPatou]

@DontTalkDT Do you happen to know anything about how cosmic rays work and if this attack can be considered realistic in terms of how it works?

The main posts of this debate can be found here (the first message is a collection of relevant messages)

The main issue is whether or not the following thing can be considered a radiation-based light-speed attack.
Here's a collection of what has been said so far.

Why we need to be strict with something that aint light or lightning tho really, i never seen anything else needing more proof to be accepted besides being called the thing they were on this wiki, also the case i kept saying above for a different character accepted as such"

As for color issue: "Do cosmic rays have color?

The flux for the lowest energies (yellow zone) is mainly attributed to solar cosmic rays, intermediate energies (blue) to galactic cosmic rays, and highest energies (purple) to extragalactic cosmic rays."

Annie beam is also purple, just checked now, its not multi colored or anything, her move set is based on a bunch of cosmic stuff which she makes use of, she summons one with Sagan to shoot the opponent, its pretty straight forward honestly

 

[DontTalkDT]

@DontTalkDT Do you happen to know anything about how cosmic rays work and if this attack can be considered realistic in terms of how it works?

The main posts of this debate can be found here (the first message is a collection of relevant messages)

I mean, I'm no expert or anything.
Let me say that the colours in the second quote refer to those used in the graphic that the source uses, I think. Cosmic rays are particle beams. They shouldn't really be visible, unless they interact with something in some way to make it emit light. But even then I'm not sure if they would have a fixed color. Actually, pretty sure they are invisible. (btw. near the speed of light can easily mean as low as 43%)

Generally, there is the question of whether we want to accept a cosmic rays speed as fixed, seeing as we are talking about a particle beam that can vary in speed. In theory, the more power the beam has the faster it would beam (well, the more power per particle.)
I can see arguments for and against that.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Because just like light and lightning it might be just called in that way but not have the properties of the real thing, cosmic rays are just more exotic.

As far as im aware we didnt make a deal of something outside those needing more proof then just confirmation

Its like trying to ask for evidence that fire from a character is actual fire if they describe it as such

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Seen a move of a character being called particle beam get accepted without any further questions for a different verse

Why Annie has to get questioned here for hers getting called a cosmic ray and needing evidence, the two cases dont have any differences or reasons as to why it got accepted either for that one

 

[SamanPatou]

As far as im aware we didnt make a deal of something outside those needing more proof then just confirmation

Its like trying to ask for evidence that fire from a character is actual fire if they describe it as such

Because it's extremely common in fiction to have attacks called light and lightning, and it would be very easy to give high speed ratings to plenty of characters, which is the reason why we have policies dictating that such attacks must be proven to have the same properties of real light and lightning in order to be considered that fast.
Cosmic Rays are a more unique thing, but the concept is the same, because if we want to consider them realistic in terms of speed, then we also have to prove them to be realistic in other aspects, otherwise it becomes cherry picking.

Seen a move of a character being called particle beam get accepted without any further questions for a different verse
Why Annie has to get questioned here for hers getting called a cosmic ray and needing evidence, the two cases dont have any differences or reasons as to why it got accepted either for that one

Other characters must be evaluated on their own, and nothing says they can't be wrong, even if it was accepted in the past.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Its double standards one gets accepted but another needs evidence for it, gotta be fair then

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here exactly?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Input on whats left at the moment

Edit: the cosmic ray topic is the one left

If all else that were given a pass so far is of no issue to be added

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Feel free to add what was accepted then.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Will do when i get time

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Tell us here when you are done, and we should close this thread.

 

[SamanPatou]

Its double standards one gets accepted but another needs evidence for it, gotta be fair then

Different characters have different context and properties behind them. That other character's speed might be faulty, and in that case it needs to be fixed, but only after evaluating it on its own terms.
But here we are evaluating Annie's beam.

I mean, I'm no expert or anything.
Let me say that the colours in the second quote refer to those used in the graphic that the source uses, I think. Cosmic rays are particle beams. They shouldn't really be visible, unless they interact with something in some way to make it emit light. But even then I'm not sure if they would have a fixed color. Actually, pretty sure they are invisible. (btw. near the speed of light can easily mean as low as 43%)

Generally, there is the question of whether we want to accept a cosmic rays speed as fixed, seeing as we are talking about a particle beam that can vary in speed. In theory, the more power the beam has the faster it would beam (well, the more power per particle.)
I can see arguments for and against that.

Judging from DT's input, the fact that Annie's beam is visible is already something that goes against the notion of it having realistic properties.
Because the point here isn't to prove whether or not her beam is made of cosmic rays, but see if it behaves like real ones.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Different characters have different context and properties behind them. That other character's speed might be faulty, and in that case it needs to be fixed, but only after evaluating it on its own terms.
But here we are evaluating Annie's beam.

I already said a couple times its not any different, only that its called a particle beam in a description and thats all, it got accepted with no further elaboration required

Judging from DT's input, the fact that Annie's beam is visible is already something that goes against the notion of it having realistic properties.
Because the point here isn't to prove whether or not her beam is made of cosmic rays, but see if it behaves like real ones.

How you want the devs to show it on screen for a player? There needs to be an indication visually of it, as well saying he isnt an ecpert on it either

That aint a reason regardless and this idea of needing to prove it if its like a real life one is not something thats been done before for any case, nor a rule exists on them either

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Bump

 

[SamanPatou]

I already said a couple times its not any different, only that its called a particle beam in a description and thats all, it got accepted with no further elaboration required

That means it's probably wrong and should be corrected.

How you want the devs to show it on screen for a player? There needs to be an indication visually of it, as well saying he isnt an ecpert on it either

That aint a reason regardless and this idea of needing to prove it if its like a real life one is not something thats been done before for any case, nor a rule exists on them either

We have two pages setting rules for that, actually, and it's standard procedure when it comes to analyze whether or not the speed of light and electric attacks matches the values of realistic counterparts.
Cosmic Rays undergo the same process, because if they get realistic speed, then they must match the real ones even in other aspects.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Rules for light and lightning cuz they are more common and easier for people to bring up as means for changing stats despite not being the real thing

Anything else not falling under these never were questioned or needed any other explaination

It says it summons cosmic rays to attack the opponent, there is literally nowhere else she could get these sort of things besides from where they are originating from, let alone her moveset and character theme is literally focused on cosmic stuff, this whole "they are like real life, else no" shouldnt even be a thing, its like asking if some fire attack is real fire in order to give a rating

 

[Keeweed]

I will say Bloodborne gets it speed from something really similar to this despite it also looking nothing like the real thing once so ever and coming from something trillions of times smaller than the real thing. So these types of things usually aren’t as strict as lightning and light.

However, personally, I think we should make a thread over all projectiles (like thrown weapons, arrows, bullets, and other miscellaneous projectiles (meteors, Star explosion debris, and radiation)) and make all their standards vastly stricter. But that’s just me.

 

[Keeweed]

I think the things is I’ve seen some staff members be cartoonishly strict with speed and I’ve seen other not care at all, and so our standards on what counts and doesn’t count varies so often from staff to staff. I’ve seen one verse get downgraded to hell by one staff only for another staff member completely disagreeing a year later and reversing practically all the changes. So I personally just think we should make everything stricter so we can finally have big unifying rules for everything rather than staff being able to fling a verse’s Statistics around like a rag doll.

I bring that up because just like with the Bloodborne thing I know plenty of staff that are fine with it and plenty that aren’t and wether it is on the profile is entirely up to which staff cares most about the profiles at that time, which is dumb.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it is hard to cover every angle, as is remembering them afterwards.

 

[Keeweed]

But it isn’t even covering them: there aren’t standards on a ton of things and it leads to huge gaps in staff opinions. Which leads to some verses being stuck in a huge game of tug of war with constantly changing statistics.

 

[Antvasima]

That is a good point.

If you explain exactly what you want us to do in that regard, I can ask DontTalk for help, if you wish.

 

[Keeweed]

I’ll need to look over somethings then and I’ll make a list. Once I have more of a concrete schedule I’ll message you on your wall to talk about it, or make a thread.

 

[Antvasima]

It is probably better if you create a staff forum discussion thread, if you want to make a policy change.

 

[Keeweed]

Unrelated to previous comments, but I’m halfway through gather all the powers from Skullgirls mobile. I’ll try to make the CRT tonight. I have coding homework tomorrow, my commenting is going to be very inconsistent, but I think most the revision will run itself.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Keeweed]

Made the thread https://vsbattles.com/threads/skullgirls-mobile-powers.130957/

 

[Antvasima]

I will check.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Will apply what was accepted here tomorrow probably, but we still need to get done with the cosmic ray topic

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Alright i have added what was accepted so far now from the OP, just the topic mentioned in my previous comment needs to be handled now

So we need staff input for that one left to conclude this already as a whole

 

[Antvasima]

Can you write an easy to understand post regarding what needs to be evaluated here please? After that I can call for a few thread moderators to help evaluate it.