Should Base Sonic get an Upgrade.

[Davy0]

I'm too lazy to constantly explain this crap, so I'm gonna amass all the threads I made or everyone else made.

Speed feat and Possible Speed feat.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/85923

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/55677 (This already made his Base FTL)

Sonic runs around Gaia Colossus which is almost as large as Imperfect Dark Gaia. This isn't very good of a feat, until you think about how far he needs to leap to be capable of launching towards Dark Gaia's head.

Destructive Capacity and Durability

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/77470

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/65207

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/86856

 

[孫悟空Son_Goku孫悟空]

I agree with upgrading

 

[Nibbler3100]

I support this everyhing here does seem feasible

 

[Davy0]

I'm waiting for that special someone. They know exactly who they are. Any.... day now...

 

[Darkness552]

im waiting for more people to say their piece

 

[Davy0]

Oh it's not you, because I think you know they have to be above that level too. It's that one person... I'm waiting for the "U".

 

[Darkness552]

you should also post the scans of the feats

 

[Davy0]

I'm really tired of doing that. Scans of the feats are in the movies, and once it gets accepted and people actually read what's in the threads I'll either make pics of it or something else.

 

[Unclechairman]

I've said this before. I strongly encourage you to upgrade the Super forms before you do this, as otherwise, base Sonic is on the same tier as his Super form, which makes zero sense as he regularly has to go Super to combat threats of that level.

 

[Davy0]

Here he is folks! The fanfare has arisen, the lions are roaring, and the wabbit is saying "What's Up"! Now serious seriousness.

That's kinda why we have the "at least" thing... And we've talked about this like a thousand times. We've already shown why characters should be superior to that. What's wrong with putting an at least behind "Planet Level" and a likely much higher ahead of it too.

 

[Darkness552]

@Unclechairman

actually when we fix the AP chart Perfect Dark Gaia is going to be large planet level from that we can powerscale the super forms to large planet level

 

[Davy0]

Even if we weren't we could have still placed an "at least" in front of it. Because Chaos Emeralds only amplify the stats, they don't just give them the power to be that level of power. Like Transformations.

 

[Nibbler3100]

that makes a whole lotta sence actually planet lvl for bases & large planet for super forms because that's still a massive upgrade when you look at the differences

 

[Davy0]

Nah the Super Forms are stronger than even that. The Large Planet Level feat was from the fact that Dark Gaia had broken the Earth apart from the inside. It didn't have its full power and had only just woken up. I keep saying that a theory about it I have is because it absorbed the Negative Power of the Emeralds much like Chaos did, but...

 

[Unclechairman]

Planet level... base Sonic? I don't think you realize how absurd this sounds. He should never have had to go Super to fight beings on the level of, say, Finalhazard if this were true.

Besides, now that I think about it, why exactly are we taking Imperfect Dark Gaia to be Planet level? I don't recall Dark Gaia being the one who shattered the Earth; in fact, the point of Eggman draining the energy out of Super Sonic was to power a laser to shatter the planet and release Dark Gaia. If anything, the Chaos Emeralds are what shattered the planet, not Dark Gaia.

Do we have a size for Dark Gaia, though? His profile states he was continent-sized; what is this based off of? If we can ascertain his size; I may be fine with upgrading base Sonic based off of that.

Also, are you ever going to make a thread to upgrade the Super forms?

 

[Davy0]

First off, Dark Gaia is stated to be a Planet Buster just by the simple fact that it constantly destroys the earth in a cycle over billions of years, while Light Gaia reforms the earth every billions of years after knocking it back to sleep. So it's a living Apocalypse Eldritch Abomination.

And if you look at the opening cutscene, it wasn't the beam that blasted the world apart, it was the formation of Dark Gaia, the beam was only made to wake it up, which is why I keep saying that it absorbed the power of the emeralds on top of its power. But again, no one listens.

I could care less about the size it was, it can be mountain-sized, continent-sized, planet-sized, whatever. What's more important is that it destroys the world as a cycle, and because of that, it's a legitimate planet buster.

Dude, can we please do one thing at a time. Holy hell...

 

[Darkness552]

Planet level... base Sonic? I don't think you realize how absurd this sounds.

well there is base form archie sonic

also just because it seems absurd doesn't make anything less right or wrong (also before people have heart attacks about this, i am indifferent in this and im just following the convo)

although you have a point about sonic having to go into super form to fight other planet level beings but then Dark Gaia does seem to be destroying the planet in the link not the machine

 

[Davy0]

Its tendrils were opening up the continent, the machine fed Dark Gaia its energy by directly firing chaos energy into it.

 

[Unclechairman]

First, I must correct you on Dark Gaia being a planet buster by virtue of it being involved in a constant cycle of destroying and recreating the planet. This was a special scenario in that Eggman awakened Dark Gaia early. In all other cases, when Dark Gaia awakened, it was already at full power as Perfect Dark Gaia. In this case, Eggman awakened it prematurely, and it was not at full power upon awakening and needed more time to mature and regain it's full power. This is also the reason Light Gaia (Chip) was amnesiac at the beginning of the game until near the end.

Watching the opening cutscene again, there was a heavily delayed reaction when the beam powered by the energy of the Chaos Emeralds struck the planet, followed by the planet cracking open and Dark Gaia's tentacles immediately reaching out of the fissures. It does seem like this was mainly a feat of Dark Gaia's. There's just one more issue; this is the 7.2 yottatons feat that people were saying could be used to seperate base Sonic and Super Sonic's tiers. Thus, when we fix our Attack Potency chart, this will be a Large Planet level feat rather than just a Planet level feat. Thus, it creates an issue when trying to argue for an upgrade to base Sonic; rather than three Planet level feats, we have two Planet level feats and one Large Planet level feat.

 

[Davy0]

Except, even while Imperfect, Dark Gaia was still handling Light Gaia pretty easily, and had it not been for Sonic, he would have been blasted away. No, the reason Chip was amnesiac was because Sonic's fall to earth bumped his head. Dark Gaia fed on the energy of the Chaos Emeralds, just as Chaos did, virtue of Emerald energy it was already a planet buster. The calc was created for when Dark Gaia hadn't fully matured yet, and it still tore the planet asunder while keeping its core intact.

Yep, but for the reasons I stated above, Perfect Dark Gaia is stronger than what was shown through that calc. Sonic only harms Imperfect Dark Gaia, so it's still consistent, and you don't necessarily need the energy to destroy something in order to harm it superficially. Which is the case for Base.

 

[Unclechairman]

I don't recall anything stating that Dark Gaia was directly empowered by the Chaos Emeralds or fed on their energy, merely that they were used to awaken it. Nor do I recall Light Gaia's amnesia being caused by Sonic falling on him (Sonic didn't even fall on him, as he was seen lying a few feet away from the hole Sonic made by falling); the issue went deeper than that. Explained by Light Gaia himself (skip to 39:11).

The issue I'm bringing up is that the Large Planet level feat was a feat of Imperfect Dark Gaia. Harming a Large Planet level being, even if superficially (and I don't think it was superficially; every Homing Attack caused Dark Gaia just as much pain as a punch from the Gaia Colossus) is still most likely a Large Planet level feat, and are we arguing for Planet level base Sonic or Large Planet level base Sonic, because this feat clearly stands out from the other two Planet level feats.

 

[Darkness552]

hmm well this just got more complicated, uh sonic and its powerscaling messes

im going to sleep on this thread and review it tomarrow

 

[Davy0]

Huh... is that why Chip saved Sonic as he was falling towards the earth by using one of his light shields. And then winded up unconscious after said incident of Sonic falling. Interesting... And huh... is that why the Chaos Emeralds lost their luster and chaos energy, and needed to be given back their energy by going to those darn gaia temples. Isn't that frank!

I'm arguing Sonic is Planet Level +. I don't know what you're arguing.

 

[Darkness552]

Davy0

Uncle is saying that because Imperfect Dark Gaia would be large planet level it would in turn if we powerscale sonic to him make sonic Large planet level and now instead of 3 planet level feats, we have to planet level feats and one large planet level feat

 

[Davy0]

OK... And that makes the ability to screw over three potential planet busters + 1 that wasn't destroyed by Sonic himself less relevant because?

 

[Darkness552]

it just thows a monkey wrench in whether if we should consider sonic large planet level or planet level(of course assuming this gets accepted because im still waiting for others)

 

[Davy0]

But... the guy was still strong enough to be a planet level threat.. .which should give Sonic even more credibility. As long as he comes out Planet Level after all this crap, I could care less.

 

[Numbersguy]

I don't agree at all. I have my reasons:

1) Chip did like 80% of the job, he was the one that damaged Dark Gaia enough. Sonic did that feat when Dark Gaia was knocked out and weakened.

2) Sonic was afraid the whole time, he knew he had no chance agaisnt Dark Gaia.

 

[Davy0]

1) So I'm just gonna assume you're a downplayer since you obviously didn't look at the videos. Sonic attacked Dark Gaia once before he was completely weakened by Light Gaia and then another time after the fact, so even if superficial it's still a feat. He attacked his eyes as they were the most viable weak points. But that doesn't matter because even attacking a superior being weak points should yield monstrous results, it's not like their weak point is "wall" level while everything else is planet level.

2) How was Sonic afraid? More like he was weakened after having energy ripped out of him. In both cases of Sonic transforms he screams horribly in pain from how excruciating it was (in the beginning movie followed by the one I showed).

 

[Numbersguy]

That is what I was saying, Dark Gaia was weakened and then Sonic landed those blows. The feat really doesn't work out, it is like killing a lion that is at death's door with your own hands...

 

[Davy0]

... What does that have to do with durability? That's now durability works. And the first time which Sonic attacks him he was far more healthy yet still screamed in agony from getting his eye smashed. You think a lion has planet level durability, because from what I know about lions, they can die just as easily as any other animal without a thick hide...

 

[Non-Bias]

After looking everything over, I really don't see a problem with an upgrade to Sonic's stats.

 

[Davy0]

That's what hard work gets ya, difficulty in seeing glaring issues. I don't think he'll be Large Planet Level, but Uncle-san has issues with it. It actually makes him more credible in my honest opinion, but I've already said that.

I think we need an admin to settle this and make it golden, apart from Uncle and Darky Dark.

 

[Numbersguy]

... What does that have to do with durability? That's now durability works. And the first time which Sonic attacks him he was far more healthy yet still screamed in agony from getting his eye smashed. You think a lion has planet level durability, because from what I know about lions, they can die just as easily as any other animal without a thick hide...

I wasn't saying that a lion has planet level durability, it was an example, read it again... the feat is not as impressive because Sonic did that when Dark Gaia was weakened. That is what I was trying to say.

 

[Davy0]

"Feat" involves that he did it a single time. He did that "feat" twice. You're trying to imply that somehow his durability was weakened given the fact that Sonic was attacking him while Gaia Colossus held him down. Your logic is faulty. Are you trying to state that his durability was worse because he was "weakened" the second time? If so you're underestimating the power that Dark Gaia has, which makes your statement even less relevant.

 

[Numbersguy]

Well, I admit defeat... we have to let an admin decide now.

 

[Darkness552]

well Davy0 you might want to ask other admins for their input

 

[Davy0]

But I went through all the trouble to get the info here, why I gotta... (sigh)

 

[Darkness552]

i would have but im fairly busy monitoring the wiki and other things

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'm completely fine with an upgrade, but I still can't see base Sonic's AP at Planet level. However, his durability has always seemed much higher than his AP anyway, so I can definitely see Planet level durability. Not as sure about his AP. Definitely way above City level, but I'm not exactly sure where.