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Sonic's true destructive capacity.

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Davy0

Davy0

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Emerl and Perfect Chaos are planet busters due to the Emerald's power. So what makes Sonic in capable of gaining something closer to the powers he'd shown through defeating two highly powerful beings with his own strength. Ridiculous stats or not, it's been done at least twice, and then there's Silver who could fight on par with Iblis who, although we don't know his full destructive capacity was not only the raw power of the Solaris duo but also was capable of placing the entire world into hell with its power. We just don't know how fast it'd done so, but through what's implied...

Anyway, thoughts?
 
I can't speak for Emerl since I haven't played Sonic Battle, but I'm hesitant to place Perfect Chaos at Planet Level, since it creates massive problems with the way we scale Sonic characters. Super Sonic (whose power source is the Chaos Emeralds) is scaled from Dark Gaia. Base Sonic is scaled from his feat of defeating Perfect Chaos as Sonic Generations. If we place Perfect Chaos at Planet Level, we're scaling him from Super Sonic and the Chaos Emeralds, who are scaled from Dark Gaia, and Base Sonic is in turn scaled from Perfect Chaos. Ultimately, Base Sonic gets scaled to his Super form, which raises questions as to why he even needed his Super form in most scenarios or how Dark Gaia was able to push him so far (considering he actually passed out from exhaustion after his fight with Perfect Dark Gaia in either version of Unleashed).
 
in one of Gerald Robotniks diaries in Sonic Battle he said Ultimate Emerl with the 7 chaos emeralds could destroy the planet

but i agree with Unclechairman, it would screw up the scaling because Base Sonic defeated Perfect Chaos and if he was planet level he would be on the same level as Super Sonic which wouldn't make sense
 
Can't you be on the same level but be weaker than someone? Like, someone who can generate 80 zettatons of TNT is much weaker than someone who can generate 800 zettatons of TNT, but they're both Planet Level.
 
Yes but it seems to be that Davy0 is looking at the chaos emeralds as they all give out the same amount of power so it would be base sonic being on the same level as super sonic because base sonic defeated perfect chaos who is powered by the chaos emeralds
 
Again, that would only mean Sonic was even HIGHER when in his Super Form, there's just an unknown element here. Something here that's not being placed into being. Super States have defeated multiple beings that were Universal in power.
 
Perfect Chaos is a Super State of Chaos. The only difference is that Chaos' transformation is powered by the negative energies of the Chaos Emeralds, while Sonic's transformation into Super Sonic used the positive energies of the Emeralds. We're basically scaling Perfect Chaos off the fact that he uses the same power source as Super Sonic, and then scaling him to base Sonic. Following this line of logic, if Super Sonic is Universal, then Perfect Chaos is also Universal, and since base Sonic defeated him, base Sonic is also Universal. The scaling gets extremely convoluted and ridiculous if we do this.
 
Well actually, Perfect Chaos is considered a God. Robotnik even stated that even while within just his base form "he was capable of untold destruction". We're scaling from the Emerald's as a power source because that's all we have. However, Super States should be stronger than characters like Emerl. The Super States brought out the true potential of his systems, yet it didn't give him the same abilities as a Super State, yet he was still a planet buster.

Again, that's not the only piece of evidence we have. Iblis, though he may or may not be capable of destroying planets, is capable of completely ruining it with its own power. And again, Emerl is the full potential of Emerl after gaining the Emeralds and absorbing their powers completely. Though Emerl is not a true super state due to a lack of invincibility, it's still powerful enough to planet bust or potentially so.

Perfect Chaos is no different. He absorbs the energy of the Emeralds. Negative or Positive, it does not matter. Doesn't that just mean that it'd be far stronger if it obtained both halves of those energies. It was also said that even while in base Chaos was capable of mass destruction.
 
Untold amounts of destruction, eh? How much, though? I wouldn't scale base Chaos based on an unquantifiable statement. Also, I would advise against using Iblis, as he comes from a game that's likely non-canon.

The only way to potentially make this scaling you're proposing work is to set Perfect Chaos' durability at City Level, but even then, it raises questions as to how base Sonic could take his attacks if he's Planet level.
 
The game IS canon. It just got retconned. But the game still happened either way. I'm talking about Flames of Destruction Iblis not flighty Iblis...

Because SONIC either GOT STRONGER or was already that strong. AGAIN HE FOUGHT A PLANET BUSTER and took his attacks. Not only did he fight said Planet Buster he had less than 30 Seconds to do so, so unless he got some type of downgrade, he either got stronger or he was already that strong, but wished to turn P. Chaos good by harnessing the Positive Energy of the Emeralds which was already stated as a way to bring it back to being "good".
 
the game at best is dubious canon because it did show up in sonic generations

the scaling is just too messed up to really apply imo

OFF TOPIC: does anyone know when the next sonic game comes out
 
Crisis City shows up in Sonic Generations.

So we're just gonna leave him at city level, as if that's his and the others true strengths?
 
The next Sonic game coming out is Sonic Boom: Fire & Ice in Q4 of 2015 (So at least two months from now).
 
You might be able to convince the people here that he's Planet level based on Emerl, but I doubt it. Most will probably either doubt Emerl is Planet level or just take the easy route it and dismiss it as an outlier. After all, it does raise questions as to how Sonic needs his Super form to take on planetary threats and above. You'd probably have more luck convincing them that Super State characters are Universal, though, considering the Egg Wizard and Time Eater, and I wouldn't be opposed to such a thing.
 
thanks The Everlasting hopefully this game is better than the game that i will not say in fear of bad memories

ON TOPIC: i would guess people would suggest Emerl would be Glass cannon
 
They can't dismiss it. There are pieces of evidence that lead to him at least being planet level (him being Emerl). And again, I'm not saying that Sonic is planet level. I just think that he should be scaled above City Level, at the very least.
 
Darkness552 said:
thanks The Everlasting hopefully this game is better than the game that i will not say in fear of bad memories
ON TOPIC: i would guess people would suggest Emerl would be Glass cannon
Click to expand...
That doesn't dismiss the fact that Sonic took blows from him...
 
sonic defeated the deadly six who had took energy from the lost hex (the planet the zeti live on)

yet sonic defeated them all.

sonic finally came across eggman who took the entire planet's energy to power up is giant robot yet he still lost to sonic.

when cubot drank the planets energy he said that he felt stronger by the second and he barley drank alot of the energy unlike the amount eggman literally took to power up his robot.

mario also gets scaled this way so why shouldn't sonic?

watch this video it makes much sense = https://youtu.be/i9ozG8XGrtI

sonic also defeated erazor djinn while in base form, im not talking about the darkspine sonic battle,

the battle before that where base sonic beats erazor djinn, it was stated that erazor djinn was absorbing the power of the world of the arabian nights and yet he still lost to base sonic.

super sonic is much stronger than darkspine for these reasons:

1)when sonic becomes super his spikes go up and he becomes golden because of the incredible amounts of energy overflowing his body but darkspine doesn't.

2)super sonic was able to defeat solaris from the present while shadow defeated him from the past and future.

3)super sonic is invulerable and shouldn't scale with super tails and super knuckles because they cannot access the true power of chaos unlike himself, shadow and silver.

my thought's on sonic scaling:

base sonic: 5-B

super sonic:likely 2-C possibly higher

werehog and excaliburn sonic are not canon anymore for these reasons:

1)werehog transformation was taken away from sonic by dark gaia so he can't transform into it anymore.

2)excaliburn sonic isn't even real, it's just a story made up by sonic as an exuse for missing a date with amy.

3)lizuka stated that the super emeralds aren't canon which means hyper sonic isn't either.

classic and darkspine should stay the same.

please answer this if u can.
 
Considering this thread is 2 year-old and Sera already is handing Sonic revisions...

1. That don't prove anything at all

2. Sonic needed help to defeat far weaker enemies such Time Eater and Egg Salamancer both which only showed Universal-Baseline Multi-universe level

3. Having Invulnerability don't make you stronger than someone and you still can get killed by people comparable-stronger than you

4. I don't think you know what canon mean... look at this page

5. You need morre proof than that...
 
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