SHINZA IS BACK!!!!!

[PrinceofPein]

Checked the OP's cosmology post.
Just saying, Muzan's universe consists of 23 dimensions, not just 10
and it is confirmed right from the game that beings from a lower dimension will be obliterated just by a blink from beings on a higher dimension.

while I dont know how you got to see it, but "These are the Sephiroth. It is the very shape of the universe that consists of 10 dimensions, the embodiment of humanity, it's nothing more than a system that categorizes the soul and spirit's social status." So no it does not have 23 dimensions but 10 dimensions

1. Keter/Crown, the seat of God
2. Chokhmah/Wisdom
3. Binah/Understanding
4. Chesed/Kindness
5. Gevurah/Divine Power
6. Tiferet/Beauty
7. Netzach/Victory
8. Hod/Splendor
9. Yesod/Foundation
10. Malkuth/Kingdom, the physical world.

Also you can send me a message in DM instead of just coming here to say this is not that in a blog no one but others have seen.
finally, your last statement I cannot remember something like that been said, not that it is necessary since there are other statements of qualitative difference, but if you do have it please send it, thank you

 

[PrinceofPein]

The Naraka being changed from what was initially known about them is a retcon in this case, because the Naraka was definitely introduced as a single entity, and not as five individuals which was a latter addition

Sure, but the notion of Naraka being one being vs being 5 beings is a retcon. Then they add in the other thing of there being an entirely different entity named Naraka, or Zero. That's an example of a genuine retcon in the series.

actually the naraka was first introduced as five individuals, and again this five individuals are still the narakas, their name was not changed, we were just given more context to why they are called the narakas.
They are still called the narakas, that was not changed, we were only told they are fakes and their exist a real one, the one they are scared of and wants to defeat.
Anyway this is a bit derailing

 

[Mugen_no_Setsuna]

...

You may forgot that Paradise Lost not only used Kabbalah's model, but also Dante's Divine Comedy.

Basically we have 3 parts: Heaven, Mortal World and Hell.

Both Heaven and Mortal World are comprised into the Sephiroth tree, which consists of 10 dimensions, pretty much everyone knows about this one.
On the other hand, Hell, because it used the exact SAME model of Dante's Divine Comedy, so Hell consists of 9 Circles. The last circle aka Cocytus is divided into 4 rounds: Caina, Antenora, Plotomaea and Juddecca. Hence, 8 + 4 = 12. Hell has total of 12 dimensions.

Lastly, this one is a hidden Sephira called Da'at. Da'at is the in-between path that connected BOTH Heaven and Hell. Myoujou used Testament to dig through Da'at in order to reach to the Abyss aka Hell. So there you have it, 10 dimensions from Sephiroth, 12 dimensions from Hell and 1 more dimension which is Da'at.

One thing to confirm. Hell exists below Heaven and Mortal World but that doesn't mean Hell is a lower dimensional world. The top of Heaven aka Keter and the bottom of Abyss aka Judecca BOTH lead to the Throne. Heaven contains positive energy of Fifth Element aka Mana, while Hell is big mass of Sin - the thing that opposed Mana and the angels, in addition where demons like Belial, Belzebuth or Satanael's strongest Sin - Lucifer came from. Let just say Heaven and Hell are two sides of the same coin, while the Mortal World is stuck in the middle.

I have full Japanese script of Paradise Lost here, DM me if you want.

 

[Darksmash]

One thing to confirm. Hell exists below Heaven and Mortal World but that doesn't mean Hell is a lower dimensional world. The top of Heaven aka Keter and the bottom of Abyss aka Judecca BOTH lead to the Throne.

Why are you saying it's 23D then? That's a clear indication that these dimensions arent in a strict hierarchy.

 

[Mugen_no_Setsuna]

Why are you saying it's 23D then? That's a clear indication that these dimensions arent in a strict hierarchy.

Did you even read my comment carefully

 

[Darksmash]

Did you even read my comment carefully

Yes. Yes I did.

 

[Mugen_no_Setsuna]

Then what the heck is "strict hierarchy" has anything to do with the fact that PL have more than 10 dimensions aside from those in Sephiroth?

 

[Darksmash]

Then what the heck is "strict hierarchy" has anything to do with the fact that PL have more than 10 dimensions aside from those in Sephiroth?

I am asking whether the hell dimensions are even relevant. If both the hell dimensions and the heaven dimensions lead upto the throne from different directions it sounds to me that don't form a continuous hierarchy. So it wouldn't exactly be 23D

 

[Mugen_no_Setsuna]

I am asking whether the hell dimensions are even relevant. If both the hell dimensions and the heaven dimensions lead upto the throne from different directions it sounds to me that don't form a continuous hierarchy. So it wouldn't exactly be 23D

What part of this that doesn't relevant to you???

One thing to confirm. Hell exists below Heaven and Mortal World but that doesn't mean Hell is a lower dimensional world. The top of Heaven aka Keter and the bottom of Abyss aka Judecca BOTH lead to the Throne. Heaven contains positive energy of Fifth Element aka Mana, while Hell is big mass of Sin - the thing that opposed Mana and the angels, in addition where demons like Belial, Belzebuth or Satanael's strongest Sin - Lucifer came from. Let just say Heaven and Hell are two sides of the same coin, while the Mortal World is stuck in the middle.

 

[Darksmash]

What part of this that doesn't relevant to you???

Yeah but that's not 23D. You would have to prove these dimensions stack over each other.

 

[Everything12]

Probably be better for this to be done later, somewhere else, where scans can be brought to analyse what they say.

 

[Mugen_no_Setsuna]

Yeah but that's not 23D. You would have to prove these dimensions stack over each other.

Bro.
Pain explained that there are 10 dimensions which are the Sephiroth in Muzan's universe.
I replied to him that there are more than 10 dimensions, which are Da'at and 9 Circles of Hell. That's my point.
Whether they are stacking, or having a hierarchy, that's his job to explain it.
I''m no idea wtf you are smoking the entire time.

 

[Ikelaggan]

Literally the last time I remember shinza was relevant was almost a year ago, good to see it back.

 

[Reizen23]

Sure, but the notion of Naraka being one being vs being 5 beings is a retcon. Then they add in the other thing of there being an entirely different entity named Naraka, or Zero. That's an example of a genuine retcon in the series.

In Avesta, the entity known as zero(root Naraka) is implied to be Varuna when Mithra Asked Zurvan if he is zero, also in the site of pantheon, the observers are said to come from the root of shinza's world so zero is not a totally different entity

 

[Reizen23]

I really hope we get a Magsarion profile. That has been my craving (not sorry) for years.

Well, I have all of avesta so it is possible so prepare for the profile of one of the strongest dudes kek

 

[PrinceofPein]

we can save the talks for later, right now let us wiat for the cosmology blog

 

[Bobsican]

It's not allowed to link scans from Discord, please move them to another site like the wiki itself or Imgur.

 

[Reizen23]

It's not allowed to link scans from Discord, please move them to another site like the wiki itself or Imgur.

My bad, atm I cannot adjust that, is it fine to wait till tomorrow? Cuz atm it is impossible for me

 

[Bobsican]

Well, it's still a WIP from the look of things, so probably

 

[PrinceofPein]

It's not allowed to link scans from Discord, please move them to another site like the wiki itself or Imgur.

that is not an official page, the official page will be sent later

 

[Livinmeme]

Finally... Oh also how the gutting the tracendence stuff will affect it?

 

[Tarang123]

Finally... Oh also how the gutting the tracendence stuff will affect it?

Wdym?

 

[PrinceofPein]

series

That aside, wouldn't it make more sense to make the cosmology blog first, see if it holds up to scrutiny and people actually can agree on stuff and then decide if the pages come back?

Shinza's

here is a blog, although put together hastily from what we gathered before, it explains all that is needed to know about shinza's cosmology

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:princeofPein/SHINZA_COSMOLOGY_BLOG

 

[DontTalkDT]

here is a blog, although put together hastily from what we gathered before, it explains all that is needed to know about shinza's cosmology

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:princeofPein/SHINZA_COSMOLOGY_BLOG

No time today to look through it in detail, but I think it would be useful to add how you evaluate the structures. E.g. it mentions that the universe has 10 dimensions. Are those tiering system applicable dimensions? Are they even mathematical dimensions? If so, is the intention to give universe destroying characters Tier High 1-C?
Or how will Taikyoku rankings affect tiers?
Stuff like that.

 

[PrinceofPein]

No time today to look through it in detail, but I think it would be useful to add how you evaluate the structures. E.g. it mentions that the universe has 10 dimensions. Are those tiering system applicable dimensions? Are they even mathematical dimensions? If so, is the intention to give universe destroying characters Tier High 1-C?
Or how will Taikyoku rankings affect tiers?
Stuff like that.

I made it a neutral blog, but I can add the tiers to it.
will do that right away

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

No time today to look through it in detail, but I think it would be useful to add how you evaluate the structures. E.g. it mentions that the universe has 10 dimensions. Are those tiering system applicable dimensions? Are they even mathematical dimensions? If so, is the intention to give universe destroying characters Tier High 1-C?

They are not mathematical dimensions but layers of reality with each layers being above the next. The universe itself doesn't have those 10 layers. It's at the bottom of the level with the higher being beyond the universe.

 

[Everything12]

here is a blog, although put together hastily from what we gathered before, it explains all that is needed to know about shinza's cosmology

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:princeofPein/SHINZA_COSMOLOGY_BLOG

The structure of the blog is a bit messy with it's lack of consistency. Scans are in YouTube links, discord links, and just raw text in the blog itdelf. Having them all be in imgur would be preferable.

Also the mix of quotes, summaries that link to scans, bullet points, and a bunch of other stuff make it messy then it needs to be. It's overall lack of structure makes reading and evaluating much more difficult then it should be.

 

[PrinceofPein]

The structure of the blog is a bit messy with it's lack of consistency. Scans are in YouTube links, discord links, and just raw text in the blog itdelf. Having them all be in imgur would be preferable.

Also the mix of quotes, summaries that link to scans, bullet points, and a bunch of other stuff make it messy then it needs to be. It's overall lack of structure makes reading and evaluating much more difficult then it should be.

That is the major information, I am currently doing the clean up and uploading everything to imgur, but I dont know what I can do about the YT links, I made them timestamped and copied out the necessary quotes.
I was not the only working on the blog so it would be messy.

 

[Everything12]

Or how will Taikyoku rankings affect tiers?

The strength of a god's law (which is called their Taikyoku ranking in the sixth heaven) is generally only a measure of how potent their Law Manipulation (Plus Concept Manipulation and the other things a god's law represents) is. Which is incredibly important when a god is an extension of their law and their means of fighting is trying to paint over the other god's law while resisting being painted over themself.

It's only when you get to the level of Hajun that it can be considered a qualitative difference that sees even other gods as irrelevant in comparison. (Not sure why that scan isn't there)

but I dont know what I can do about the YT links

Screenshots, then upload them to imgur as a gallery.

 

[Potemkat]

here is a blog, although put together hastily from what we gathered before, it explains all that is needed to know about shinza's cosmology

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:princeofPein/SHINZA_COSMOLOGY_BLOG

The blog says some weird things

To take one:

"Anyway, in the ending of the last video soujirou and shiori faint from exhaustion from fighting some soldiers which are infused with the shit from hajuns law that makes them get strong but greedy or whatever,"

But it's just Soujirou and Shiori fighting each other, there's no soldiers

 

[PrinceofPein]

The blog says some weird things

To take one:

"Anyway, in the ending of the last video soujirou and shiori faint from exhaustion from fighting some soldiers which are infused with the shit from hajuns law that makes them get strong but greedy or whatever,"

But it's just Soujirou and Shiori fighting each other, there's no soldiers

The soldiers are from before they fainted from exhaustion like I said there

 

[Potemkat]

The soldiers are from before they fainted from exhaustion like I said there

They faint because they fought each other, they didn't fight soldiers in the video

It's not the only problem too, you say this picture says 類として but it says 剣として and you say it means Soujirou is "class" and Shiori "a cloud" in the blog, but Soujirou isn't the law of class and shiori the law of cloud.

There is a lot of weird things

 

[PrinceofPein]

They faint because they fought each other, they didn't fight soldiers in the video

Watch the video from the beginning not from the Time stamp

It's not the only problem too, you say this picture says 類として but it says 剣として and you say it means Soujirou is "class" and Shiori "a cloud" in the blog, but Soujirou isn't the law of class and shiori the law of cloud.

There is a lot of weird things

That will be a text extractor mistake, and can be fixed with changing a word.

They said, stop the needless nitpicking, cloud, class, fainted or not has nothing to do with the point, which is soujiro went through the last layer

 

[Ovy7]

I think a separate thread should be made about discussing the blog and cosmology stuff, imo

 

[Potemkat]

Watch the video from the beginning not from the Time stamp

Fighting soldiers happen in this video but not the ones you put in blog.

That will be a text extractor mistake, and can be fixed with changing a word.

They said, stop the needless nitpicking, cloud, class, fainted or not has nothing to do with the point, which is soujiro went through the last layer

I just want to help...

 

[Darksmash]

How these guys gonna use the same arguments for 1-A except worse than before no ******* way

 

[PrinceofPein]

Fighting soldiers happen in this video but not the ones you put in blog.

Fixing it

I just want to help...

Thanks, this is just not the time

How these guys gonna use the same arguments for 1-A except worse than before no ******* way

Same?
Showing that no matter what is done to the universe, the singularity is above and transcend that is enough for 1-A, if you have any contention, say them don't make mocking comments

 

[Bobsican]

That sounds way more like Low 1-C at most TBH, but I can't properly evaluate the blog for the reasons above.

 

[Darksmash]

Fixing it

Thanks, this is just not the time

Same?
Showing that no matter what is done to the universe, the singularity is above and transcend that is enough for 1-A, if you have any contention, say them don't make mocking comments

Except it's literally the exact same argument as before except worse because you all literally debunked some of the stuff yourself.

First off applying the higher dimension painting statment to PL dimensions is literally baseless as not only these dimensions obviously work differently(based on Kabbalah and whatnot), but the blog itself debunks the statement as not being about higher dimensions at all. You can't just go "well actually it's not talking about higher dimensions but since it uses the term hyperbolically it means we can apply it to every single instance of higher dimensions across the verse regardless of context"

And second you have not proven the singularity and the throne are completely above all expansions of the cosmology. In fact the blog implies the opposite as it explicitly says the nature of the throne was changed when Mercurius took over.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Except it's literally the exact same argument as before except worse because you all literally debunked some of the stuff yourself.

First off applying the higher dimension painting statment to PL dimensions is literally baseless as not only these dimensions obviously work differently(based on Kabbalah and whatnot), but the blog itself debunks the statement as not being about higher dimensions at all. You can't just go "well actually it's not talking about higher dimensions but since it uses the term hyperbolically it means we can apply it to every single instance of higher dimensions across the verse regardless of context"

It describes the nature of higher dimensions, which would naturally apply to higher D in the verse since its literally an in verse statement describing higher dimensions. so what's your argument?
And it applies to pl, as I PL you cannot access higher D without shedding your human self and become something higher.
also no attacks of the lower D can affect someone from higher D.
so yes dimensions in pL has proof of ontological difference and also no anti feats.
so please provide valid arguments.

And second you have not proven the singularity and the throne are completely above all expansions of the cosmology. In fact the blog implies the opposite as it explicitly says the nature of the throne was changed when Mercurius took over.

How does mercurial changing the nature of the throne mean it is not above the expansion of the cosmology? I don't understand how mercurial making the throne the center of each and every universe in every point in time a debunk to the notion that the throne is above the universe?
And I can tag 10 statements in the blog that explicitly says the singularity is above any of the cosmology no matter what. So what do you mean I have not proven? What else do I need to prove aside this statement?
Did you miss those scans on purpose?

If you have nothing constructive or valid to say please refrain from commenting