SHINZA IS BACK!!!!!

[PrinceofPein]

I am glad you think I am contradicting myself which means the blog is transparent and i did not add or remove anything not in the verse which is kind of what we are going for, complete honesty so we do not go down the same hole as the previous fanbase
But you cannot pick what part you want and neglect the rest, everything needs to be balanced and looked at to context. Thanks you

 

[Darksmash]

It describes the nature of higher dimensions, which would naturally apply to higher D in the verse since its literally an in verse statement describing higher dimensions. so what's your argument?

Except the blog literally says it was not talking about higher dimensions??? Lmao

And it applies to pl, as I PL you cannot access higher D without shedding your human self and become something higher.
also no attacks of the lower D can affect someone from higher D.
so yes dimensions in pL has proof of ontological difference and also no anti feats.
so please provide valid arguments.

Bunch of nonsequiturs. Prove PL dimensions have ontological difference.

How does mercurial changing the nature of the throne mean it is not above the expansion of the cosmology? I don't understand how mercurial making the throne the center of each and every universe in every point in time a debunk to the notion that the throne is above the universe?

Because the argument hinges on the notion that the nature of the throne is static and outside all expansions of the cosmology by default. But instead it's a device whose nature changes with the god and expands to encompass the cosmology.

And I can tag 10 statements in the blog that explicitly says the singularity is above any of the cosmology no matter what. So what do you mean I have not proven? What else do I need to prove aside this statement?

Sure post them. I didn't see anything implying that.

 

[Everything12]

And second you have not proven the singularity and the throne are completely above all expansions of the cosmology. In fact the blog implies the opposite as it explicitly says the nature of the throne was changed when Mercurius took over.

This logic doesn't quite make sense. The world is a canvas that the god's paint with their law. The singularity is a hole in that canvas, and at the bottom of the hole is the Throne.

Can the god change the throne as they can the world, sure (or at least the outermost layer, as the inner functions of the throne is beyond even Hajun). This doesn't mean that we ignore the nature of the canvas and singularity because a god can change both.

Every part of the cosmology that isn't the throne or singularity is part of the canvas the throne paints with the god's law. Just because a god's power can also change the throne does not mean that the throne is not outside the world.

Your basically saying that the premise that the throne can be changed and saying that this alone serves as evidence to ignore everything else we know about the throne, singularity, and god's and how they create the world.

 

[Darksmash]

This logic doesn't quite make sense. The world is a canvas that the god's paint with their law. The singularity is a hole in that canvas, and at the bottom of the hole is the Throne.

Can the god change the throne as they can the world, sure (or at least the outermost layer, as the inner functions of the throne is beyond even Hajun). This doesn't mean that we ignore the nature of the canvas and singularity because a god can change both.

Every part of the cosmology that isn't the throne or singularity is part of the canvas the throne paints with the god's law. Just because a god's power can also change the throne does not mean that the throne is not outside the world.

This is Ad Hoc. None of what you said supports the notion of the throne being 1-A. It merely assumes that it's valid and defends it. You will have to prove that the singularity and throne are actually above any possible expansions of the cosmology no matter how much is added and in a static and absolute sense.

Also the change was obviously about "encompassing infinite timelines" meaning explicitly related to the cosmology but ok.

 

[Reizen23]

Except it's literally the exact same argument as before except worse because you all literally debunked some of the stuff yourself.

First off applying the higher dimension painting statment to PL dimensions is literally baseless as not only these dimensions obviously work differently(based on Kabbalah and whatnot), but the blog itself debunks the statement as not being about higher dimensions at all. You can't just go "well actually it's not talking about higher dimensions but since it uses the term hyperbolically it means we can apply it to every single instance of higher dimensions across the verse regardless of context"

And second you have not proven the singularity and the throne are completely above all expansions of the cosmology. In fact the blog implies the opposite as it explicitly says the nature of the throne was changed when Mercurius took over.

The singularity being above all extensions of creation varies ngl, it is above all levels of creation no matter how many are stacked in suigin and tasogare's multiverses, hajun's multiverse is apparently stated to have a law that dwarfs even Rein and Merc and would kill them but it is only thx to hajun being a case of extremely op dude beyond the regular taikyoku scaling system

 

[Everything12]

Any world the gods create will be on the canvas of the world, as painting on this canvas with their law is the mechanic which they use to create the world.

The singularity is a tear in reality beneath that canvas, the throne is at the bottom of the singularity.

If gods are able to create worlds with higher dimensions then by the nature of the series mechanics then the singularity will be outside it.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

This is just my understanding but, from what I read the singularity is dimensionless, and using the throne one can expand the cosmology to a multiverse, and even higher dimensions. This is through painting over reality with ones law, and reality is described as a canvas. Plus the throne cannot be accessed unless you create a hole in sed canvas with a singularity.

Kinda reminds me of the overvoid and why it's tiered so high as the backdrop/foundation upon which everything lies upon.

However, I can't really confirm any of this, since important links for some reason lead to "Darkseids Profile" and others aren't translated so I just gotta take their word for it.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Except the blog literally says it was not talking about higher dimensions??? Lmao

Sigh read again. I guess I will remove it since you kind of missed the point
I did not say they are not talking about higher dimensions, like read "context?"

Bunch of nonsequiturs. Prove PL dimensions have ontological difference.

In the blog

Because the argument hinges on the notion that the nature of the throne is static and outside all expansions of the cosmology by default. But instead it's a device whose nature changes with the god and expands to encompass the cosmology.

The throne is literally a device, the outer one, it was destroyed countless times
Nobody said it cannot change,they can affect it as theh seem fit.
The throne is not changing due to the cosmology but rather due the God on it.
Let me explain better
During mercurius the throne changed to something that creates parallel universes infinitely due to his law eternal recurrence
During Marie the throne also changed further from something that creates parallel universes to something that creates universes where different choices are allowed due to her law of embracing all.
During hajun the throne changed from something that creates to something that destroys all universes due to his law which is annihilation.
So yes the throne changes due to their law and not because of the cosmology.

Sure post them. I didn't see anything implying that.

Read the blog again, you will fin them

 

[Reizen23]

This is Ad Hoc. None of what you said supports the notion of the throne being 1-A. It merely assumes that it's valid and defends it. You will have to prove that the singularity and throne are actually above any possible expansions of the cosmology no matter how much is added and in a static and absolute sense.

Also the change was obviously about "encompassing infinite timelines" meaning explicitly related to the cosmology but ok.

For the singularity we can use what is implied during the routes and then stated directly, beri'ah actually dwarfs creation no matter how many laws are added, layers of laws are stacked and so on, this is shown with every recurrence of mercurius and is directly stated to ignore the laws of creation everytime it is activated, this is the same thing that is stated in k3 with distortions which is just beri'ah but under another name, the singularity is then above all beri'ah minus divine ones

 

[Reizen23]

This is just my understanding but, from what I read the singularity is dimensionless, and using the throne one can expand the cosmology to a multiverse, and even higher dimensions. This is through painting over reality with ones law, and reality is described as a canvas. Plus the throne cannot be accessed unless you create a hole in sed canvas with a singularity.

Kinda reminds me of the overvoid and why it's tiered so high as the backdrop/foundation upon which everything lies upon.

However, I can't really confirm any of this, since important links for some reason lead to "Darkseids Profile" and others aren't translated so I just gotta take their word for it.

Which one lead to Darkseid profile? I prob made a mistake when linking the scans

 

[Reizen23]

Any world the gods create will be on the canvas of the world, as painting on this canvas with their law is the mechanic which they use to create the world.

The singularity is a tear in reality beneath that canvas, the throne is at the bottom of the singularity.

If gods are able to create worlds with higher dimensions then by the nature of the series mechanics then the singularity will be outside it.

I mean, you can use colorless taikyoku and the conceptual hierarchy of k3

 

[PrinceofPein]

I mean, you can use colorless taikyoku and the conceptual hierarchy of k3

You can tag multiple posts instead of replying separately

 

[Darksmash]

Any world the gods create will be on the canvas of the world as painting on this canvas with their law is the mechanic which they use to create tbe world.

The singularity is a tear in reality beneath that canvas, the throne is at the bottom of the singularity.

If gods are able to create worlds with higher dimensions then by the nature of the series mechanics then the singularity will be outside it.

Yeah but you would have to prove they can create any number of these higher dimensions.

Sigh read again. I guess I will remove it since you kind of missed the point
I did not say they are not talking about higher dimensions, like read "context?"

You literally did? Apparently it's not talking about higher dimensions. But now you are gonna remove it? Please decide on concrete information before making threads like this.

During mercurius the throne changed to something that creates parallel universes infinitely due to his law eternal recurrence
During Marie the throne also changed further from something that creates parallel universes to something that creates universes where different choices are allowed due to her law of embracing all.
During hajun the throne changed from something that creates to something that destroys all universes due to his law which is annihilation.
So yes the throne changes due to their law and not because of the cosmology.

Okay all of this is fine. But all I am asking for is concrete proof that it's indeed statically outside all expansions of the cosmology no matter how many dimensions are added, or proof that any number of dimensions can be added in the first place.

Read the blog again, you will fin them

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Which one lead to Darkseid profile? I prob made a mistake when linking the scans

"As such, the only way of truly accessing it is by opening a Singularity"

 

[Reizen23]

"As such, the only way of truly accessing it is by opening a Singularity"

Thx, will correct that but basically when I have to link sometimes it clicks a link rather than another one, if you find others I have to adjust lemme know

 

[Vondoom]

The singularity being above all extensions of creation varies ngl, it is above all levels of creation no matter how many are stacked in suigin and tasogare's multiverses, hajun's multiverse is apparently stated to have a law that dwarfs even Rein and Merc and would kill them but it is only thx to hajun being a case of extremely op dude beyond the regular taikyoku scaling system

Ultima intends to update the FAQ in the future.

 

[Reizen23]

Ultima intends to update the FAQ in the future.

?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Yeah but you would have to prove they can create any number of these higher dimensions.

Stop acting dishonest on purpose, this was what I said
"Now while these statements were not made in the context of talking about dimensions but rather in the context of Soujiro inability to hurt Akuro, it does tells us how Higher dimensions are to lower dimensions, which is simply reality fiction,"
What there says it means they are not talking about higher D?
Like can you be less obvious with the bias

You literally did? Apparently it's not talking about higher dimensions. But now you are gonna remove it? Please decide on concrete information before making threads like this.

no I don't need need remove it.
here
Now while these statements were not made in the context of talking about dimensions but rather in the context of Soujiro inability to hurt Akuro, it does tells us how Higher dimensions are to lower dimensions, which is simply reality fiction,

Okay all of this is fine. But all I am asking for is concrete proof that it's indeed statically outside all expansions of the cosmology no matter how many dimensions are added, or proof that any number of dimensions can be added in the first place.

It's literally in the blog.
You know whether the universe was 3D or 12D made no difference to the singularity. So there is your answer.
It was expanded after mithra and it made no difference

 

[Vondoom]

?

You guys are debating on the notion on being larger than any possible extension grants tier 1-A but Ultima said it can be done by simply just 1 transcendence and would be updated soon. Statements like being larger and independent than any dimensional extensions wouldn't necessarily grant 1-A.

 

[Darksmash]

Now while these statements were not made in the context of talking about dimensions but rather in the context of Soujiro inability to hurt Akuro, it does tells us how Higher dimensions are to lower dimensions, which is simply reality fiction,"
What there says it means they are not talking about higher D?

"Now while these statements were not made in the context of talking about dimensions but rather in the context of Soujiro inability to hurt Akuro"

Here. A hyperbole is a hyperbole.

It's literally in the blog.
You know whether the universe was 3D or 12D made no difference to the singularity. So there is your answer.
It was expanded after mithra and it made no difference

Uhh I am not sure about that considering from what I have been told the PL dimensional hierarchy is supposed to lead upto the throne. Doesn't sound so "disconnected and indifferent" to me.

 

[PrinceofPein]

"Now while these statements were not made in the context of talking about dimensions but rather in the context of Soujiro inability to hurt Akuro"

Here. A hyperbole is a hyperbole.

gave us a literal definition of how higher dimensions work, give up

なのに無傷 。 まったく無傷 。 薄皮一枚切り裂けない 。 それは紫織の 拳を受け止めたときと同様で 、 頑強さと言うより別位相の物理を目に したかのようだった

"And yet, he was unharmed. Completely unharmed. Not even a thin layer of skin was torn off. It was the same as when he received Shiori's fist, and it was as if I saw another phase of physics rather than stubbornness."

喩えるなら 、 絵の中でどれだけ猛火を描写しようと 、 それが現実の 人間を燃やせるわけがないのと同じ 。

To put it in another way, no matter how raging the fire is depicted in a painting, it can't burn a real person.

立っている場所がそもそも違うという断絶感。

A sense of disconnection, that the place where we are standing isn't the same to begin with.

そして 、 絵に現実は害せなくても 、 現実が絵を破壊することは容易 に出来る 。

And even if the picture can't harm the reality, reality can easily destroy the picture.

高次元から低次元への攻撃は 、 赤子の手を捻るよりも通しやすい 。

An attack from a higher dimension to a lower dimension is easier to get through than twisting a baby's hand.

Uhh I am not sure about that considering from what I have been told the PL dimensional hierarchy is supposed to lead upto the throne. Doesn't sound so "disconnected and indifferent" to me.

Except you are unable to access the throne while ascending them, please read the blog section on this, lol satanael even after all he could not reach it directly

 

[Darksmash]

gave us a literal definition of how higher dimensions work, give up

It says attack from a higher dimension but you say it's not talking about higher dimensions. Please don't tier contradictory information.

Except you are unable to access the throne while ascending them, please read the blog section on this, lol satanael even after all he could not reach it directly

That's another nonsequitur. Some fictional character can have the ability to ascend to Xth dimension but fall short of the X+1th dimension. From what I am seeing the idea that the dimensions in PL directly lead to Keter(which is supposed to be the throne or something just below it iirc) utterly mocks the idea of dimensional inaccessibility.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Wanna mention again, apparently the singularity is dimensionless or lacks dimensional properties. Pretty useful in the argument whether it's reachable from dimensions or not.

 

[Vasco]

gave us a literal definition of how higher dimensions work, give up


Except you are unable to access the throne while ascending them, please read the blog section on this, lol satanael even after all he could not reach it directly

Some statements here actually qualify as qualitative superiority.

 

[PrinceofPein]

It says attack from a higher dimension but you say it's not talking about higher dimensions. Please don't tier contradictory information.

tag where I said it was not talking about higher dimensions, I will wait

That's another nonsequitur. Some fictional character can have the ability to ascend to Xth dimension but fall short of the X+1th dimension. From what I am seeing the idea that the dimensions in PL directly lead to Keter(which is supposed to be the throne or something just below it iirc) utterly mocks the idea of dimensional inaccessibility.

lmao, so he cannot access the throne, then we have more context from other works of the verse, you know the one that says the throne and taikyoku transcends creation, literally your bias is so obvious it makes you dishonest

 

[Reizen23]

Yeah but you would have to prove they can create any number of these higher dimensions.

actually,Yakou's colorless taikyoku is able to control all physical phenomena in creation
this is further shown against Awaumi where he summoned the different phenomena in all of their phases

needless to say that phases of physics refer to higher dimensions

actually higher dimensional concepts are further confirmed with Soujirou's distortion,implying that concepts are a hierarchy

colorless taikyoku is just disconnected from everything

disconnection is used for R>F differences,however since the "fire on the canvas" in this context refers to these concepts and all of creation,this means that stacking it would be futile to reach colorless taikyoku and thus stacking higher d asw

and yes,he is technically above all of creation,viewing it as a mandala that will never become reality

it is also the origin of all of creation

just something I can mention

You guys are debating on the notion on being larger than any possible extension grants tier 1-A but Ultima said it can be done by simply just 1 transcendence and would be updated soon. Statements like being larger and independent than any dimensional extensions wouldn't necessarily grant 1-A.

alr

 

[PrinceofPein]

actually,Yakou's colorless taikyoku is able to control all physical phenomena in creation
this is further shown against Awaumi where he summoned the different phenomena in all of their phases

needless to say that phases of physics refer to higher dimensions

actually higher dimensional concepts are further confirmed with Soujirou's distortion,implying that concepts are a hierarchy

colorless taikyoku is just disconnected from everything

disconnection is used for R>F differences,however since the "fire on the canvas" in this context refers to these concepts and all of creation,this means that stacking it would be futile to reach colorless taikyoku and thus stacking higher d asw

and yes,he is technically above all of creation,viewing it as a mandala that will never become reality

it is also the origin of all of creation

just something I can mention

alr

you did not have to bother tbh, it is in the blog

 

[Darksmash]

tag where I said it was not talking about higher dimensions, I will wait

You literally said it was not talking about dimensions in context but about an attack.

lmao, so he cannot access the throne, then we have more context from other works of the verse, you know the one that says the throne and taikyoku transcends creation, literally your bias is so obvious it makes you dishonest

Bro I just checked the blog the throne is literally Keter???? Lmao. That makes it a part of those "10 dimensions" holy shit I can't with this verse and it's delusional fanbase. Get your ******* arguments straight.

 

[Reizen23]

you did not have to bother tbh, it is in the blog

ik but since people want to see all of this directly,I thought of sending them again here

 

[Reizen23]

You literally said it was not talking about dimensions in context but about an attack.


Bro I just checked the blog the throne is literally Keter???? Lmao. That makes it a part of those "10 dimensions" holy shit I can't with this verse and it's delusional fanbase. Get your ******* arguments straight.

the whole "10 dimension" stuff is just saying that the difference between them is that of higher dimensions and technically can be argued higher given more context from paralost and other games like the fact that you cannot reach the throne unless you are equal to the throne God(unless you want to say colorless Yakou>Muzan,the 10d statement is alr debunked)

 

[PrinceofPein]

You literally said it was not talking about dimensions in context but about an attack.

I said they were not made in the context of, not "that they are not talking about".
Bro reading comprehension for christ sake

Bro I just checked the blog the throne is literally Keter???? Lmao. That makes it a part of those "10 dimensions" holy shit I can't with this verse and it's delusional fanbase. Get your ******* arguments straight.

Reading to context has been your problem from the start so I will let it slide, like did you actually relax to read this thing or just decided to spout nonsense?
part of sephiroth

the whole "10 dimension" stuff is just saying that the difference between them is that of higher dimensions and technically can be argued higher given more context from paralost and other games like the fact that you cannot reach the throne unless you are equal to the throne God(unless you want to say colorless Yakou>Muzan,the 10d statement is alr debunked)

you do not have to reply him

 

[Reizen23]

tho btw it should be noted that paralost's earth is the remnant of Khvarenah after he emanated and a small portion of its power allows people to do stuffs on the level of higher sephira,it could not reach the throne only because of the full craving being alr within Muzan as it was swallowed alongside everyone's craving during Avesta and so Mags was alr stronger

 

[Darksmash]

I said they were not made in the context of, not "that they are not talking about".
Bro reading comprehension for christ sake

Oh. What's the point of even saying that in the blog then? This reeks of backpedalling but sure, I will trust what you say about the blog and drop this topic.

Reading to context has been your problem from the start so I will let it slide, like did you actually relax to read this thing or just decided to spout nonsense?
part of sephiroth

Maybe if you will actually present some arguments instead of "read the blog" or "you suck" we can make some progress. Explain to me in high detail how the throne quite literally being one of those "10 dimensions" doesn't completely annhilate all your cosmology wank.

the whole "10 dimension" stuff is just saying that the difference between them is that of higher dimensions and technically can be argued higher given more context from paralost and other games like the fact that you cannot reach the throne unless you are equal to the throne God(unless you want to say colorless Yakou>Muzan,the 10d statement is alr debunked)

????
So now you are saying these higher dimensions aren't actually higher dimensions. ******* hell I am done arguing with this ******** verse and it's delusional fanbase. Wank it to whatever you want. I am not gonna waste my time arguing with a bunch that hasn't even decided on proper arguments and just make shit up on the fly.

 

[Reizen23]

????
So now you are saying these higher dimensions aren't actually higher dimensions. ******* hell I am done arguing with this ******** verse and it's delusional fanbase. Wank it to whatever you want. I am not gonna waste my time arguing with a bunch that hasn't even decided on proper arguments and just make shit up on the fly.

did you even read what I said? I said that thanks to muzan they are more than 10 higher d,stop just misreading what I and pein say

 

[Darksmash]

Yeah making shit up and contradicting yourself constantly. I am done.

 

[Reizen23]

Yeah making shit up and contradicting yourself constantly. I am done.

not even contradicting the blog,if you read the blog,the scans of reaching the throne requiring power equal to God is shown

 

[Ovy7]

Aaaaaand this right here is why I said we need an actual CRT for the cosmology...

 

[PrinceofPein]

Maybe if you will actually present some arguments instead of "read the blog" or "you suck" we can make some progress. Explain to me in high detail how the throne quite literally being one of those "10 dimensions" doesn't completely annhilate all your cosmology wank.

maybe if you actually read the stuffs properly.
The throne is part of the sephiroth, and yes I added the throne to be part of the 10 dimensions, cause there is a quote that mentions it to be part, but that does not change or did not change the fact that you cannot access the throne without a power equal to muzan, satanel could **** with every other thing except he could not reach the throne because he is not a God, so yes the throne was noted to not be accesible.
There is no cosmology wank, you are just annoyed for some reason I cannot understand, and you have no actual refute to this

????
So now you are saying these higher dimensions aren't actually higher dimensions. ******* hell I am done arguing with this ******** verse and it's delusional fanbase. Wank it to whatever you want. I am not gonna waste my time arguing with a bunch that hasn't even decided on proper arguments and just make shit up on the fly.

Bro did you read what he said?
but let me help him phrase it properly, he siad my R>F statement means I am saying that is the relationship that exist between the dimensions of Muzan, but that of the throne is higher due to what was shown in PL and other works. And if you say that is not true you are saying colorless Yakou >> muzan.
I hope you get that now, he never said they are not actual higher dimensions like you are claiming.
So please read our posts properly I am glad to see that it is not only me that you keep misquoting tho

 

[Ningenron]

The amount of false information and dishonesty is just astounding. And I was hoping that yall project would come up with something new, instead of the same shit, but worse.

 

[PrinceofPein]

The amount of false information and dishonesty is just astounding. And I was hoping that yall project would come up with something new, instead of the same shit, but worse.

All this is needless.
What you need to do is
1. Point out the false information
2. Point out the dishonesty.
Aside that, this is just pointless