Shakugan no Shana revisions

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @UchihaSlayer96 @Maverick_Zero_X @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo

Would any of you be willing to help out with evaluating this please? You can obviously ask questions if you wish.

Reading all of this, everything looks fine, but it beens years since I’ve seen Shakugan no Shana, so there might be something I’m missing behind the face value of these points

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for helping out. It is very appreciated.

@Armorchompy @ElixirBlue @Everything12

Would any of you be willing to evaluate this as well please?

Most of the abilities and justifications had been accepted already; only a few hadn't, which is what lead me to compile more scans and update the listing.
It's this updated version that hasn't been evaluated, yet... it's been awaiting evaluation for a month now, and unfortunately ElixirBlue didn't come back and respond... If it's only you and me talking here, obviously there won't be much progress done...

I'll just repost everything here:

• Combat-Applicable
  • Energy Manipulation, Life Manipulation and Non-Physical Interaction (Can interact with Power of Existence, a fundamental energy akin to human life force that is required for something to exist and have a presence in our universe. Can interact with creatures made of PoE (such as Rinne), as well as beings of other universes and planes of existence (such as Crimson Denizens). Flame Hazes can use and manipulate the Power of Existence of a person or object, either for Magic or emergency Healing)
  • Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 1, Aspect Types 2, 4 & 5, limited to the human universe/our universe) (When a human enters a contract with a Crimson Lord to become a Flame Haze, their entire Power of Existence is taken up by the Crimson Lord's existence, causing them to lose their identity, presence, history and very own existence in our universe, and drastically reducing the effect they have on it through their actions; they also stop possessing any information related to them as it was erased from existence the moment they lost their human nature. Becoming a Flame Haze doesn't create a new identity nor does it give them a solid presence in our universe, and their body becomes a shell containing the otherworldly life force they obtained from their Crimson Lord. The concept of that other life force doesn't exist in our universe, which makes Flame Hazes made out of something that doesn't exist and cannot be registered from the perspective of our universe. However, other otherworldly beings, such as Crimson Denizens, should be unaffected by a Flame Haze's nonexistent nature)
  • Perception Manipulation (Flame Hazes are, by nature, hard for humans to notice unless they desire it, due to their lack of conventional existence. They can also increase the effect of this ability)
• Not Combat-Applicable
  • Causality Manipulation (They can use a person's Power of Existence to repair physical destruction (like fallen buildings) or immaterial destruction (such as fixing a location's or object's presence and state of balance in the world), merge with someone's PoE and make that person's identity and existence theirs (Like when Shana took the identity of Yukari Hirai after her existence as a human was erased), or use it as energy to perform spells. They can also use PoE to temporarily restore the stolen existence of people to "heal/restore their bodies" and minimize the disruption of balance in the world, akin to pseudo-restoration from Existence Erasure)
  • Limited Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2, Alteration & Destruction), Information Manipulation (Type 2) and Existence Erasure (Can directly manipulate the concept of a person's existence, and have it affect the entire human universe, either erasing it entirely, or turning it into a different form, or even merging it with their own being, or using PoE as a placeholder temporary existence for someone whose existence was erased. Whatever the action, all concepts, objects and ideas tied to that person's existence are also altered at the same time to fit the new form and "identity" of the existence, and the fundamental knowledge regarding it shifts accordingly (like when Shana truly became Yukari in the eyes of the entire world despite their differences in personality, voice and body; of Yukari's belongings (including her family) became Shana's version of "Yukari", and the changes to the concept of Yukari Hirai as an existence were forced upon the world and turned into a fact). Such abilities are only applicable in the human universe or universes that work on the same rules as ours, and would not work in the Crimson Realm or equally vastly different universes)
• Resistances
  • Partial Resistance to Information Manipulation (Type 2) (Flame Hazes don't possess any information or history about their humanity altogether to be manipulated, and that from the moment they become Flame Hazes. Their information as Flame Hazes can likely be manipulated, but only by users who can apply that ability to other universes with fundamentally different energies)
  • Partial Resistance to Perception Manipulation (Flame Hazes can resist the passive lack of presence exuding from other Flame Hazes and Crimson Denizens, but don't resist the ability if it comes from a separate spell or mechanism, or if it's purposely amplified)
  • Partial Resistance to Life Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation and Existence Erasure (The life force, body, history and "existence" of Flame Hazes refers to a vacuum opened in the universe's space-time, all of which were sacrificed to cease their human existence and to enter a contract with their respective Crimson Lord; the concept of "human" stopped applying to them entirely. Those aspects cannot be tampered with because: 1) the presence, identity, history and existence of a Flame Haze's human life have stopped existing, 2) in their place came forth a new "existence" that is made up of their Crimson Lord's life force, who comes from the Crimson Realm, another universe, 3) that new "existence" can be erased by neither human-universe abilities (due to Flame Hazes not existing in a conventional human-universe sense), nor by otherwordly abilities (because the energy of the Crimson Realm, what Flame Hazes are partially made of, cannot be erased or tampered with by Denizens or other Flame Hazes). If a Flame Haze, Denizen or Torch dies, their belongings vanish from existence and other Flame Haze or Denizens who knew them keep their memories of them, but humans do not). Flame Hazes should however be vulnerable to abilities messing with the unique life force of the Crimson Realm, or, in simpler terms, to Life/Conceptual/Existence Manipulation that can affect beings from fundamentally different universes and worlds from ours)

Like I explained a few times already, the point is simply to evaluate if the wording, scans and justifications of the abilities make sense and are valid to be used as they are. If something is amiss, then what is the issue, what would be further needed, or how should it be presented if the current presentation isn't good enough

 

[Mephistus]

The suggestions look good to me, I've only watched the whole anime though.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Thank you for taking the time to review the "cosmology" abilities. It's greatly appreciated. I believe they can be used, then.

I'll continue my rewatch of the anime and gathering feats for the future profiles. Over time, some profile pages may pop up if there's nothing else to gather for them and if all the gatherable (is that a word?) feats have been calced.

I'll keep this thread updated with the process and progress of it all, or when more feats are ready to be calced.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that what has been accepted here can probably be applied now then, in lack of better options.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @UchihaSlayer96 @Maverick_Zero_X @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo

Would any of you be willing to help out with evaluating this please? You can obviously ask questions if you wish.

My apologies for the late reply, I'm rather busy due to finals.

But I pretty much concur with Mitch. This seems good to me, but I'm not very knowledgeable on the verse.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem, and thank you for helping out.

@GoldenScorpions

You can probably apply what has been accepted here now.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Update.
I'm slowly but steadily making my way through Season 2. In parallel, I'm trying to calc feats along the way.

I simply have a question for future calc evaluations. I seem to recall something was said about trying to avoid putting multiple calcs in a same blog. Is that correct or am I misremembering? What if a single scene has multiple calcs attached to it?

 

[Mariogoods]

Update.
I'm slowly but steadily making my way through Season 2. In parallel, I'm trying to calc feats along the way.

I simply have a question for future calc evaluations. I seem to recall something was said about trying to avoid putting multiple calcs in a same blog. Is that correct or am I misremembering? What if a single scene has multiple calcs attached to it?

It is a personal preference rather than a mandatory rule. If a single scene has multiple calculations attached to it, it is up to evaluate members to decide which one is the best.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Thank you

 

[Antvasima]

Have the revisions that were accepted here been applied yet?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Have the revisions that were accepted here been applied yet?

They have, yes. A few profiles were made thanks to them.
More calcs are to come soon-ish to bolster the verse and the number of characters, which is why I was asking about the calcs per blog.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is good then.

Should I close this thread or keep it open?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

I'd prefer it stays open, so it can keep being used as the hub of Shakugan no Shana updates, changes and calcs, at least until I finish the show and all the important calcs are done. I feel it's easier than having to make a new thread, and allows an easy-to-follow "progress history" of the franchise on the site. If that's fine with you.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems fine to me.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Update.
I have finished my rewatch of Season 2 of Shakugan no Shana. With that, I have gathered the abilities and characters shown in Season 2, as well as compiled a number of feats that I calced.
I have been compiling those calcs in a blog, but because there's a fair amount of them, I'll split them in a few separate ones.

Calcs

• Margery blasts the Empire State Building (AP) - Approved
  • Margery & Sydonay create an explosion (AP) (Partially requires the previous feat) - Approved
• Sydonay destroys buildings (AP/SS) - Approved
• Hecate's Aster spell destroys a neighbourhood (AP) - Approved
• Fecor's Magnesia spell (AP + Mass) - Approved
• Wilhelmina blasts buildings & pulls them together (AP + LS) - Approved
• Margery lifts a city (LS) - Approved
• Flight speeds (Speed) - Approved
• Bifrons creates a crater (AP) (Preferably, to be done last) - Approved

Purpose
The evaluation of these calcs will allow for an accurate statistics attribution for many characters of the verse. Said characters will have solid foundations for them to later be added to the wiki.

 

[Antvasima]

Update.
I have finished my rewatch of Season 2 of Shakugan no Shana. With that, I have gathered all the abilities and characters shown, as well as compiled a number of feats that I calced.
I have been compiling those calcs in a blog, but because there's a fair amount of them, I'll split them in a few separate ones.

I have posted the first few for evaluation. I'm posting them here as well, to track progress.

• Margery blasts the Empire State Building (AP)
• Sydonay destroys buildings (AP/SS)
• Hecate's Aster spell destroys a neighbourhood (AP)
• Fecor's Magnesia spell (AP + Mass)

Once these start getting evaluated, I'll post the rest of the calcs.

@Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Mr._Bambu @Therefir @DMUA @DemonGodMitchAubin

Would any of you be willing to evaluate these calculation blogs and then tell us here please?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Update.
I have finished my rewatch of Season 2 of Shakugan no Shana. With that, I have gathered the abilities and characters shown in Season 2, as well as compiled a number of feats that I calced.
I have been compiling those calcs in a blog, but because there's a fair amount of them, I'll split them in a few separate ones.

I have posted the first few for evaluation. I'm posting them here as well, to track progress.

• Margery blasts the Empire State Building (AP)
• Sydonay destroys buildings (AP/SS)
• Hecate's Aster spell destroys a neighbourhood (AP)
• Fecor's Magnesia spell (AP + Mass)

Once these start getting evaluated, I'll post the rest of the calcs.

@Psychomaster35 @CloverDragon03 @Dark-Carioca @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Aguywhodoesthings

Would any of you be willing to evaluate these calculation blogs and then tell us here please?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bump

The calcs aren't that scary, are they? They're fairly standard.
I had forgotten about it, but I furthermore linked this to the CRT Promotion thread. Hopefully, this will increase visibility. As always, I'm thankful for the help, Ant.

 

[Antvasima]

Update.
I have finished my rewatch of Season 2 of Shakugan no Shana. With that, I have gathered the abilities and characters shown in Season 2, as well as compiled a number of feats that I calced.
I have been compiling those calcs in a blog, but because there's a fair amount of them, I'll split them in a few separate ones.

Calcs

• Margery blasts the Empire State Building(AP)
  • Margery & Sydonay create an explosion (AP) (Partially requires the previous feat)
• Sydonay destroys buildings (AP/SS)
• Hecate's Aster spell destroys a neighbourhood (AP)
• Fecor's Magnesia spell (AP + Mass)
• Wilhelmina blasts buildings & pulls them together (AP + LS)
• Margery lifts a city (LS)
• Flight speeds (Speed)
• Bifrons creates a crater (AP) (Preferably, to be done last)

Purpose
The evaluation of these calcs will allow for an accurate statistics attribution for many characters of the verse. Said characters will have solid foundations for them to later be added to the wiki.

Bump

The calcs aren't that scary, are they? They're fairly standard.
I had forgotten about it, but I furthermore linked this to the CRT Promotion thread. Hopefully, this will increase visibility. As always, I'm thankful for the help, Ant.

@Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Mr._Bambu @Therefir @DMUA @Damage3245 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Jasonsith @Wokistan @Armorchompy @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @CloverDragon03 @KLOL506 @Dark-Carioca @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Aguywhodoesthings

Would any of you be willing to handle this please? This thread has been stuck for a quite long time now.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, @GoldenScorpions , you should politely ask for help in the following thread as well.

Calculation Evaluations (New forum)

This thread is intended for users to link to new blog post calculations, to relay them to the community, and have them evaluated by the calculation group, without contacting the members individually. To evaluate important off-site calculations, preferably copy them to blog posts in this wiki...

vsbattles.com

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Also, @GoldenScorpions , you should politely ask for help in the following thread as well.

Calculation Evaluations (New forum)

This thread is intended for users to link to new blog post calculations, to relay them to the community, and have them evaluated by the calculation group, without contacting the members individually. To evaluate important off-site calculations, preferably copy them to blog posts in this wiki...

vsbattles.com

Thank you, though I already have, sadly to no success. It'll soon be a full month since, so I'll be able to bump it at least.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is good at least. You can mention that I sent you and would appreciate some help in conjunction.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Update.
Well, after nearly a whole month, only two blogs have been evaluated out of the nine. My requests are generally ignored, so that's fun.
I mean, I'll keep asking, but progress is painfull slow.

 

[Antvasima]

If you link to the blogs that still need to be evaluated, I will ask our calc group members to help you out via a notification.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

If you link to the blogs that still need to be evaluated, I will ask our calc group members to help you out via a notification.

Thank you for the help.

The remaining blogs left to calc are these:

• Sydonay destroys buildings (AP/SS) - Approved
• Wilhelmina blasts buildings & pulls them together (AP + LS) - Approved
• Flight speeds (Speed) - Approved
• Margery blasts the Empire State Building (AP) - Approved
  • Margery & Sydonay create an explosion (AP) (Required the ESB feat for context) - Approved
• Margery lifts a city (LS) - Approved
• Bifrons creates a crater (AP) (Preferably, to be done last, as it uses context from the previous AP calcs as justification) - Approved

 

[Antvasima]

Update.
Well, after nearly a whole month, only two blogs have been evaluated out of the nine. My requests are generally ignored, so that's fun.
I mean, I'll keep asking, but progress is painfull slow.

If you link to the blogs that still need to be evaluated, I will ask our calc group members to help you out via a notification.

Thank you for the help.

The remaining blogs left to calc are these:

• Margery blasts the Empire State Building(AP)
  • Margery & Sydonay create an explosion (AP) (Requires the previous feat for context)
• Sydonay destroys buildings (AP/SS)
• Wilhelmina blasts buildings & pulls them together (AP + LS)
• Margery lifts a city (LS)
• Flight speeds (Speed)
• Bifrons creates a crater (AP) (Preferably, to be done last, as it uses context from the previous AP calcs as justification)

@Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Mr._Bambu @Therefir @DMUA @Damage3245 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Jasonsith @Wokistan @Armorchompy @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @CloverDragon03 @KLOL506 @M3X_2.0 @Dark-Carioca @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Aguywhodoesthings

Are any of you willing to help out with evaluating these calculation blogs please?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

A great deal of evaluation work for very little profile, but I suppose I can muddle through it.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

A great deal of evaluation work for very little profile, but I suppose I can muddle through it.

I mean, the entire point is to use the results of these calcs to create more profiles.

The existing profiles are there because previous calcs regarding them have already been approved. You say there are currently few profiles, which is true, but they are characters who have had all calcs required to have their profiles made approved. The other characters don't meet those requirements, yet.
In my mind, since calcable feats do exist for this series, there's no point creating profiles beforing having those calcs evaluated. Otherwise, needless edits would need to be made every few evaluated calcs to update the profiles accordingly, which adds more work than necessary.

By the end of the project, the plan is to have the number of Shakugan no Shana character profiles on the wiki quadruple.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

suffice to say that smothering me in yet more anime profiles is not the selling point you may think it is

Regardless, as I said, I am muddling through. Your Empire State Building calc needs worked on, by the way, I actually remember having looked at it before but decided I'd leave it to another CGM to see if they wanted to actually do the work for you. As that never materialized, I'll just say that you need to pixel scale.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

I aplogize that you have to look at anime profiles when you clearly hate it, but I have no control over other calc members not responding to the evaluation requests.

As for the ESB calc, I had decided against pixel scaling initially because only the front of the building is fully shown, never the side, making one dimension missing to accurately calc the volume. I'll look into what I can do, though.
Since the calc happens on a building that exists in real life, I thought it was simpler to use the existing, documented measurements for it. Is that wrong?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Hah, aye. I know.

I had actually been suggesting pixel scaling the image of the ESB you pulled up with the squares. Currently you're just sort of generalizing it down within half a square or so, I think you can be more exact. It's definitely only going to be a "possibly" as is, due to the fact that you're assuming what floors get affected- even if it is a decent estimate, it's far from objective, even further than our usual calcs.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

I had actually been suggesting pixel scaling the image of the ESB you pulled up with the squares. Currently you're just sort of generalizing it down within half a square or so, I think you can be more exact. It's definitely only going to be a "possibly" as is, due to the fact that you're assuming what floors get affected- even if it is a decent estimate, it's far from objective, even further than our usual calcs.

Alright, I'll try that tomorrow, because it's currently very late here.
In the meantime, I have responded on the blogs you commented.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

I had actually been suggesting pixel scaling the image of the ESB you pulled up with the squares.

I have updated the Empire State Building calc with your suggestions. It's indeed a lot simpler like this

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for helping out so much here, @Mr._Bambu .

 

[GoldenScorpions]

aye

I have updated the calcs and/or responded to your comments.

• For the Empire State Building, I redid the calc using a different method and basing it more closely to what currently exists on References for Common Feats page. The calc is now much simpler and, hoperfully, correct
• For Sydonay's blast, I'll take your verdict, but I responded since I'd like to fully understand how things work or don't work with feat interpretation.
• For Wilhelmina's blast, I updated and calc and responded.
  • For the hollowness, I had initially used 80%, but in similar building destruction calc I made, Armorchompy suggested I use 90% instead of 80%, so I had changed it to 90% for Wilhelmina's feat but had forgotten to change it on Sydonay's feat. What's your take on the hollowness % that should be used for buildings? Jasonsith gave his opinion, but he says it depends on the type of building.

 

[Antvasima]

I have updated the calcs and/or responded to your comments.

• For the Empire State Building, I redid the calc using a different method and basing it more closely to what currently exists on References for Common Feats page. The calc is now much simpler and, hoperfully, correct
• For Sydonay's blast, I'll take your verdict, but I responded since I'd like to fully understand how things work or don't work with feat interpretation.
• For Wilhelmina's blast, I updated and calc and responded.
  • For the hollowness, I had initially used 80%, but in similar building destruction calc I made, Armorchompy suggested I use 90% instead of 80%, so I had changed it to 90% for Wilhelmina's feat but had forgotten to change it on Sydonay's feat. What's your take on the hollowness % that should be used for buildings? Jasonsith gave his opinion, but he says it depends on the type of building.

@Mr._Bambu

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm still on this thread, Ant, promise

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Our notification system messes up quite frequently though.