Shakugan no Shana revisions

[Everything12]

The problem I have is that I agree to Power of Existence being Information, because of the whole losing your Power of Existence not just erasing you from people's memories but even removes physical evidence you ever existed. However, all this talk about Concepts is stuff I can't remember being talked about at all. So I'd prefer some evidence bing presented.

Also, that resistance to Information Manipulation and all that they get from lacking those attributes. That shouldn't be given. You don't gain resistance to something from having Nonexistent Physiology to it, you just gain Nonexistent Physiology.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Screenshots and links will be added to back this up

As I wrote in my post, I will gather additional evidence as I continue my rewatch to back those up. This is still in the project phase. However, even atthis stage, the whole first arc of the series has Shana alter the concept of Yukari Hirai's existence and mold it in such a way it and Shana herself merge together. That's also what Leanan-Sidhe did with Lamies, or what Friagne almost managed to do with Marianne, or what Tenmoku Ikko did to himself, or even what happens at the very end of the series when Yukari Hirai is brought back to existence. I also specified that such things can only achieved in human-like universes, as such things were never shown or told to be capable in the Crimson Realm, the reason being the existence of Crimson Denizens cannot be tampered with by other Denizens or Flame Hazes; which is why the Resistances specify that they shouldn't be able to resist such abilities that can mess withthe life force of otherwordly universes.

Concerning the resistance to Information Manipulation, Flame Hazes lack information and history about their humanity altogether. Shouldn't that warrant a resistance? You can't manipulate information that doesn't exist. Maybe that section should also be presented as "Limited Resistance" and specify the resistance is only about their human information, and not their Flame Haze information?

 

[Mariogoods]

While I don't have knowledge regarding Shakugan no Shana series, I feel that determining if light novel and anime are the same canon is important as light novel and anime sometimes have different plot. (e.g. Soul Eater anime and Soul Eater manga)

 

[Everything12]

I think I've heard something in the past that the anime had a few points of divergence from the light novel, particularly during the end. Though, as I've never read the light novels myself I can't say for certain.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

While I don't have knowledge regarding Shakugan no Shana series, I feel that determining if light novel and anime are the same canon is important as light novel and anime sometimes have different plot. (e.g. Soul Eater anime and Soul Eater manga)

That's a good point and good time to mention this.
The light novel and anime are, for the most part, following the same canon and story events. By far the biggest difference is the last arc of the first season which is entirely anime original; it was created as a way to give S1 a "sort of conclusive" climax because, at the time, the anime staff thought they would only make 1 season and didn't predict Shakugan no Shana would become so popular that they would make more seasons. I will not be using that arc for profile making, as it bends some pre-established rules regarding Power of Existence and Crimson Realm energy. There are some things in that arc that stay in-line with the light novel and canon anime events (like character scaling, possible feats, or lore), but those won't be used on their own, and only if they don't contradict canon and if other instances of such aspects occur at other points.
The only other relevant instance of anime-original stuff is in the very first arc of the anime. However, the changes are minor, don't contradict canon events, and the movie faithfully adapts Arc 1. So, if there happens to be two different values for a same character/feat from early Shakugan no Shana, the movie value/feat will take precedence over the TV series one, to be safe.

Seasons 2 and 3 closely follow the light novel.

 

[Antvasima]

So what should be done here exactly?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Unless I'm misinterpreting, most of the suggestions about the abilities are approved. For the few that are currently a bit borderline, as long as I provide screenshots and links that justify them and their nature, it should be good to go? I was planning to anyway, so it works out, and I have a good idea of where in the series those visual justifications will pop up.

I was worried the justifications for those abilities were too long and wordy. Though, after this discussion, maybe they are actually necessary to keep in order to properly and convincingly convey the exact nature of those abilities, since they touch upon the unique cosmology and inner workings of Shakugan no Shana.

 

[Antvasima]

Unless I'm misinterpreting, most of the suggestions about the abilities are approved. For the few that are currently a bit borderline, as long as I provide screenshots and links that justify them and their nature, it should be good to go? I was planning to anyway, so it works out, and I have a good idea of where in the series those visual justifications will pop up.

I was worried the justifications for those abilities were too long and wordy. Though, after this discussion, maybe they are actually necessary to keep in order to properly and convincingly convey the exact nature of those abilities, since they touch upon the unique cosmology and inner workings of Shakugan no Shana.

Is this fine with you, @Everything12 and @ElixirBlue ?

 

[Dragopentling]

All of the listed revisions here I agree with for the most part. The trouble is how to establish the links and describe the unconventionality of some of the abilities without being too wordy. Especially regarding the part with Power of Existence and Soul Manipulation.

 

[Antvasima]

@Everything12 @ElixirBlue

We would still appreciate some help here.

 

[Everything12]

I won't be commenting anymore on this until more scans/quotes are presented.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I would appreciate if knowledgeable members here are willing to provide that then, as we will not be able to proceed otherwise.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

I didn't imagine things getting hasty, but okay. I fast-forwarded in my rewatch to gather the story of this character, from back when he turned from a human to a Flame Haze.
About that Spanish translation I mentioned early in the thread (here's their FB page). I went to get the bit about his story, and it's the same. Here's a basic Spanish-to-English translation:

When the prince was about to be devoured, he heard a voice "I am one of those who hates those that devour men. Discard everything that you are as a human and become my vessel; in return I will give you great power to destroy the man-eaters”. The prince threw it all away, and even though he felt those words were ominous, he accepted the payment.
The prince obtained enormous power, so he used it to drive away the monster. He thought he had become a hero, he would save the King, he would save his father, he would save the country, he would drive away the monsters, but the instant he turned towards the king...
The king had forgotten everything about the prince, the soldiers too, no one in the country remembered the prince anymore. He had ceased to be a prince, ceased to be a human, and inside him a strange voice resounded "You have discarded everything as a human. You agreed with that, right? It's what you wished for". The prince had been left alone in the world.

A Denizen devouring a person's Power of Existence is basically the first half of the process of a human turning into a Flame Haze. In both cases, humans are deprived of the entirety of their Power of Existence, aka everything that makes up their humanity, history, identity and existence in our world. Flame Hazes, by extention of being linked to a Denizen by contract, can also manipulate Power of Existence in the same way. The Denizen in the contract devours the human's PoE, but instead of stopping at just erasing the human from existence, they merge with them offering them power through the energy that resides in that Denizen, aka the energy from the Crimson Realm.
Manipulating PoE includes and translates into manipulating those concepts, as those are linked. We know Flame Hazes can actually do this, not just Denizens, with this.

Here are two extra moments around Shana becoming Yukari Hirai. Everyone else calls Shana "Yukari" or "Hirai", even the human characters who later learn about the truth of the world, as their discovery happened after the real Yukari's existence erasure. Also, despite Yukari and Shana's height difference, with Shana being identified as "Yukari" by the entire world, Shana's height became the "normal height" of "Yukari", same with their personality. In the prequel OVAs, Shana had also become someone else by merging with the remains of their existence, after that person was erased.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

I won't be commenting anymore on this until more scans/quotes are presented.

Can you remind me and gather together if there were other things you were on the fence about or disagreed with?

 

[ElixirBlue]

I won't be commenting anymore on this until more scans/quotes are presented.

I do agree collecting scans should be a focus rn. GoldenScorpions has collect a few with their latest posts but more would be nice. Also, a reference to which episode or chapter in the light novel would be nice to check.

Can you remind me and gather together if there were other things you were on the fence about or disagreed with?

I'm not disagreeing but we would need links/scans for verification before moving forward for the changes. Rn, Shana doesn't have links to anything written on her page, which does posse a problem. Do you know where we can find the source for her abilities? I can try create some scans or gifs for them.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

GoldenScorpions has collect a few with their latest posts but more would be nice. Also, a reference to which episode or chapter in the light novel would be nice to check.

I will continue gathering scans as I continue my rewatch, but do realize I still have 2 whole seasons to go through, so it won't be immediate. I can add references to the respective episodes for those trickier abilities, that's not hard

Rn, Shana doesn't have links to anything written on her page, which does posse a problem. Do you know where we can find the source for her abilities?

I'm aware the Shana page is currently very incomplete (and incorrect), which was the basis for this ongoing CRT after all. It was mainly the abilities and resistances related to the SnS cosmology, lore and rules that needed to be cleared and defined, as those are the trickiest. Her other abilities are more traditional and expected (Fire manip, Swordsmanship, Flight, Martial Arts, Purification), so it's not as hard. Many of those abilities exist on the Shana wikia, where the Bureaucrat managing it is quite thorough; they simply need to be translated in VS Battles format and given a scan/reference wherever possible.
I appreciate the help, though you'd probably need the episodes for that. I got the entire series on my computer, and so I can make gifs as well.

I made a blog for the SnS profiles that I periodically update with new info, links, or scans.

shared abilities of Flame Hazes

I updated the Abilities post from above

 

[Antvasima]

Tell me here when I should call for Everything12 again.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I made a blog for the SnS profiles that I periodically update with new info, links, or scans.

That looks good. What can I do to help?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

shared abilities of Flame Hazes

For starters, do you have feedback or remarks concerning the updated Flame Haze abilities in this thread? Are there aspects that absolutely need extra statements to be used, and if so, which ones? Do you understand what's written, or are there confusing elements in the wording? If so, do you have suggestions to make the writing simpler?

As a side note, Denizens have almost the same abilities as Flame Hazes, except 2 differences:
The first is that Denizens have combat-applicable Existence Erasure (Crimson Denizens can "eat" the Power of Existence of humans and objects, effectively storing energy or empowering themselves while erasing the existence of someone. It requires a few seconds for the Existence Erasure process to be complete)
The other is that Denizens likely don't qualify for Nonexistent Physiology and Resistance to Information Manipulation. Whether it's in Khamsin's backstory, or Fecor acting as the "butler" of Hecate's clone, or Lamies, Denizens to seem to have a presence in the human world, unlike Flame Hazes. Whereas Flame Hazes used to be humans (creatures with PoE) whose PoE was taken away, aka people who existed in the human world in the first place but then whose existences were erased by erasing their PoE, Denizens are basically an "alien race" that aren't native to the human world and who aren't creatures with PoE in the first place, so there's nothing to be erased from a human-world perspective.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Continuing the momentum of progress, I made a second wave a calcs for Shakugan no Shana. This batch contains 6 calcs, 4 for AP and 2 for speed

 

[Dragopentling]

Continuing the momentum of progress, I made a second wave a calcs for Shakugan no Shana. This batch contains 6 calcs, 4 for AP and 2 for speed

The calcs look good for the most part, though I'm honestly surprised that the Tendokyu destruction feat didn't yield as high results as I initially expected.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Thank you, though a calc member still needs to validate the calcs for them to be applied.
Low 7-B is still pretty big of a value; besides its destruction was on the slow side, as it came from Bel-Peol's key shattering. My surprise comes from Tendokyu not being as big as I thought it was.
Seireiden will be different, hopefully; Seireiden's size in S1 is very inconsistent (plus, it happens mostly during the anime-only arc, so not the most reliable anyway), but in S3 we'll see Seireiden much more clearly. A big feat I'm waiting to get to is Khamsin destroying a bunch of city blocks in Seireiden in one punch

 

[Antvasima]

I won't be commenting anymore on this until more scans/quotes are presented.

So has anybody done this yet?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

So has anybody done this yet?

I have updated the listings, yes

shared abilities of Flame Hazes

 

[Antvasima]

While I continue rewatching the anime and gathering feats and calcs, there are some things I'd like to be discussed in the meantime, about Shakugan no Shana that will affect the profiles. It has to do with the unique attributes of the supernatural beings in the series + a bit of cosmology.
Besides humans, there are a few types of supernatural beings, the main two being Flame Hazes and Crimson Denizens, and they both have certain abilities as a result of their nature and cosmology. Some of those abilities are combat-applicable and some are not. My objective is to fine-tune how they should be written/presented on the profiles, as they are tricky.

I'll start with Flame Hazes. These are the shared abilities of Flame Hazes, the way I have written them for now.

• Combat-Applicable
  • Energy Manipulation, Life Manipulation and Non-Physical Interaction (Can interact with Power of Existence, a fundamental energy akin to human life force that is required for something to exist and have a presence in our universe. Can interact with creatures made of PoE (such as Rinne), as well as beings of other universes and planes of existence (such as Crimson Denizens). Flame Hazes can use and manipulate the Power of Existence of a person or object, either for Magic or emergency Healing)
  • Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 1, Aspect Types 2, 4 & 5, limited to the human universe/our universe) (When a human enters a contract with a Crimson Lord to become a Flame Haze, their entire Power of Existence is taken up by the Crimson Lord's existence, causing them to lose their identity, presence, history and very own existence in our universe, and drastically reducing the effect they have on it through their actions; they also stop possessing any information related to them as it was erased from existence the moment they lost their human nature. Becoming a Flame Haze doesn't create a new identity nor does it give them a solid presence in our universe, and their body becomes a shell containing the otherworldly life force they obtained from their Crimson Lord. The concept of that other life force doesn't exist in our universe, which makes Flame Hazes made out of something that doesn't exist and cannot be registered from the perspective of our universe. However, other otherworldly beings, such as Crimson Denizens, should be unaffected by a Flame Haze's nonexistent nature)
  • Perception Manipulation (Flame Hazes are, by nature, hard for humans to notice unless they desire it, due to their lack of conventional existence. They can also increase the effect of this ability)
• Not Combat-Applicable
  • Causality Manipulation (They can use a person's Power of Existence to repair physical destruction (like fallen buildings) or immaterial destruction (such as fixing a location's or object's presence and state of balance in the world), merge with someone's PoE and make that person's identity and existence theirs (Like when Shana took the identity of Yukari Hirai after her existence as a human was erased), or use it as energy to perform spells. They can also use PoE to temporarily restore the stolen existence of people to "heal/restore their bodies" and minimize the disruption of balance in the world, akin to pseudo-restoration from Existence Erasure)
  • Limited Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2, Alteration & Destruction), Information Manipulation (Type 2) and Existence Erasure (Can directly manipulate the concept of a person's existence, and have it affect the entire human universe, either erasing it entirely, or turning it into a different form, or even merging it with their own being, or using PoE as a placeholder temporary existence for someone whose existence was erased. Whatever the action, all concepts, objects and ideas tied to that person's existence are also altered at the same time to fit the new form and "identity" of the existence, and the fundamental knowledge regarding it shifts accordingly (like when Shana truly became Yukari in the eyes of the entire world despite their differences in personality, voice and body; of Yukari's belongings (including her family) became Shana's version of "Yukari", and the changes to the concept of Yukari Hirai as an existence were forced upon the world and turned into a fact). Such abilities are only applicable in the human universe or universes that work on the same rules as ours, and would not work in the Crimson Realm or equally vastly different universes)
• Resistances
  • Partial Resistance to Information Manipulation (Type 2) (Flame Hazes don't possess any information or history about their humanity altogether to be manipulated, and that from the moment they become Flame Hazes. Their information as Flame Hazes can likely be manipulated, but only by users who can apply that ability to other universes with fundamentally different energies)
  • Partial Resistance to Perception Manipulation (Flame Hazes can resist the passive lack of presence exuding from other Flame Hazes and Crimson Denizens, but don't resist the ability if it comes from a separate spell or mechanism, or if it's purposely amplified)
  • Partial Resistance to Life Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation and Existence Erasure (The life force, body, history and "existence" of Flame Hazes refers to a vacuum opened in the universe's space-time, all of which were sacrificed to cease their human existence and to enter a contract with their respective Crimson Lord; the concept of "human" stopped applying to them entirely. Those aspects cannot be tampered with because: 1) the presence, identity, history and existence of a Flame Haze's human life have stopped existing, 2) in their place came forth a new "existence" that is made up of their Crimson Lord's life force, who comes from the Crimson Realm, another universe, 3) that new "existence" can be erased by neither human-universe abilities (due to Flame Hazes not existing in a conventional human-universe sense), nor by otherwordly abilities (because the energy of the Crimson Realm, what Flame Hazes are partially made of, cannot be erased or tampered with by Denizens or other Flame Hazes). If a Flame Haze, Denizen or Torch dies, their belongings vanish from existence and other Flame Haze or Denizens who knew them keep their memories of them, but humans do not). Flame Hazes should however be vulnerable to abilities messing with the unique life force of the Crimson Realm, or, in simpler terms, to Life/Conceptual/Existence Manipulation that can affect beings from fundamentally different universes and worlds from ours)

In other terms, there are two "life forces" in Shakugan no Shana: the human-universe one, and the Crimson Realm one. Flame Hazes and Crimson Denizens can manipulate both, but only the life force of the universe they are currently in (i.e. only the human life force can be used in the human universe). Neither FH not CD can manipulate the energy from the Crimson Realm beyond spells; they cannot use Existence Erasure, Conceptual Manipulation, or any of the rest using the CR energy, but can do so with the human-universe energy because its nature is fundamentally different from the CR one.
As such, FH and Denizens cannot mess with each other's life force, existence or concepts, but they can mess with the human-universe life force for those things.

Any feedback is appreciated, and any questions on how things work are welcome, as they would help finetune how to best phrase everything.

@Everything12 @ElixirBlue

Would you be willing to take a look at this please?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

If you write an easy to understand explanation post regarding what needs to be evaluated here, I can ask for further staff evaluation help afterwards.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

That's simple, really.

First, is to review this bulk of abilities of Flame Hazes; the reason why it's important it because some of them touch upon physiologies, concepts, causality, existence erasure, etc. Many edits were made and many scans were added since the first iteration. The goal is for these abilities and their justifications to be validated so they can later be added to the profiles when they're made. As a bonus, if someone has suggestions on a better way to write all that down, it's welcome.

These are the shared abilities of Flame Hazes

Second, is to evaluate this batch of calcs.

 

[Antvasima]

@Armorchompy @UchihaSlayer96 @Maverick_Zero_X @LordTracer

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this please?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/shakugan-no-shana-revisions.128011/post-4747184

 

[Armorchompy]

ye

 

[GoldenScorpions]

ye

Thanks a lot, Armor!
I responded and commented a question for the 4th calc.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, thank you for helping out.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Thanks again, Armor.
This wraps up all the Season 1 calcable feats. I'll be rewatching Season 2 soon.
If the Flame Haze abilities can be validated, then work on profiles could start.

 

[Antvasima]

So what currently needs to be done here?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

As I already said, the revamped list of abilities for Flame Hazes needs to be examined and validated. That's the big thing currently preventing further work.
If something amidst the abilities cannot validated at this time, then I'd like to know what would be needed for it to be approved or what should be written instead?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. If you explain and show everything that currently needs to be evaluated here in an easy to understand manner in a single post, I can ask for further staff help afterwards, so we can finally finish this thread.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Most of the abilities and justifications had been accepted already; only a few hadn't, which is what lead me to compile more scans and update the listing.
It's this updated version that hasn't been evaluated, yet... it's been awaiting evaluation for a month now, and unfortunately ElixirBlue didn't come back and respond... If it's only you and me talking here, obviously there won't be much progress done...

I'll just repost everything here:

• Combat-Applicable
  • Energy Manipulation, Life Manipulation and Non-Physical Interaction (Can interact with Power of Existence, a fundamental energy akin to human life force that is required for something to exist and have a presence in our universe. Can interact with creatures made of PoE (such as Rinne), as well as beings of other universes and planes of existence (such as Crimson Denizens). Flame Hazes can use and manipulate the Power of Existence of a person or object, either for Magic or emergency Healing)
  • Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 1, Aspect Types 2, 4 & 5, limited to the human universe/our universe) (When a human enters a contract with a Crimson Lord to become a Flame Haze, their entire Power of Existence is taken up by the Crimson Lord's existence, causing them to lose their identity, presence, history and very own existence in our universe, and drastically reducing the effect they have on it through their actions; they also stop possessing any information related to them as it was erased from existence the moment they lost their human nature. Becoming a Flame Haze doesn't create a new identity nor does it give them a solid presence in our universe, and their body becomes a shell containing the otherworldly life force they obtained from their Crimson Lord. The concept of that other life force doesn't exist in our universe, which makes Flame Hazes made out of something that doesn't exist and cannot be registered from the perspective of our universe. However, other otherworldly beings, such as Crimson Denizens, should be unaffected by a Flame Haze's nonexistent nature)
  • Perception Manipulation (Flame Hazes are, by nature, hard for humans to notice unless they desire it, due to their lack of conventional existence. They can also increase the effect of this ability)
• Not Combat-Applicable
  • Causality Manipulation (They can use a person's Power of Existence to repair physical destruction (like fallen buildings) or immaterial destruction (such as fixing a location's or object's presence and state of balance in the world), merge with someone's PoE and make that person's identity and existence theirs (Like when Shana took the identity of Yukari Hirai after her existence as a human was erased), or use it as energy to perform spells. They can also use PoE to temporarily restore the stolen existence of people to "heal/restore their bodies" and minimize the disruption of balance in the world, akin to pseudo-restoration from Existence Erasure)
  • Limited Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2, Alteration & Destruction), Information Manipulation (Type 2) and Existence Erasure (Can directly manipulate the concept of a person's existence, and have it affect the entire human universe, either erasing it entirely, or turning it into a different form, or even merging it with their own being, or using PoE as a placeholder temporary existence for someone whose existence was erased. Whatever the action, all concepts, objects and ideas tied to that person's existence are also altered at the same time to fit the new form and "identity" of the existence, and the fundamental knowledge regarding it shifts accordingly (like when Shana truly became Yukari in the eyes of the entire world despite their differences in personality, voice and body; of Yukari's belongings (including her family) became Shana's version of "Yukari", and the changes to the concept of Yukari Hirai as an existence were forced upon the world and turned into a fact). Such abilities are only applicable in the human universe or universes that work on the same rules as ours, and would not work in the Crimson Realm or equally vastly different universes)
• Resistances
  • Partial Resistance to Information Manipulation (Type 2) (Flame Hazes don't possess any information or history about their humanity altogether to be manipulated, and that from the moment they become Flame Hazes. Their information as Flame Hazes can likely be manipulated, but only by users who can apply that ability to other universes with fundamentally different energies)
  • Partial Resistance to Perception Manipulation (Flame Hazes can resist the passive lack of presence exuding from other Flame Hazes and Crimson Denizens, but don't resist the ability if it comes from a separate spell or mechanism, or if it's purposely amplified)
  • Partial Resistance to Life Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation and Existence Erasure (The life force, body, history and "existence" of Flame Hazes refers to a vacuum opened in the universe's space-time, all of which were sacrificed to cease their human existence and to enter a contract with their respective Crimson Lord; the concept of "human" stopped applying to them entirely. Those aspects cannot be tampered with because: 1) the presence, identity, history and existence of a Flame Haze's human life have stopped existing, 2) in their place came forth a new "existence" that is made up of their Crimson Lord's life force, who comes from the Crimson Realm, another universe, 3) that new "existence" can be erased by neither human-universe abilities (due to Flame Hazes not existing in a conventional human-universe sense), nor by otherwordly abilities (because the energy of the Crimson Realm, what Flame Hazes are partially made of, cannot be erased or tampered with by Denizens or other Flame Hazes). If a Flame Haze, Denizen or Torch dies, their belongings vanish from existence and other Flame Haze or Denizens who knew them keep their memories of them, but humans do not). Flame Hazes should however be vulnerable to abilities messing with the unique life force of the Crimson Realm, or, in simpler terms, to Life/Conceptual/Existence Manipulation that can affect beings from fundamentally different universes and worlds from ours)

Like I explained a few times already, the point is simply to evaluate if the wording, scans and justifications of the abilities make sense and are valid to be used as they are. If something is amiss, then what is the issue, what would be further needed, or how should it be presented if the current presentation isn't good enough

 

[Antvasima]

Most of the abilities and justifications had been accepted already; only a few hadn't, which is what lead me to compile more scans and update the listing.
It's this updated version that hasn't been evaluated, yet... it's been awaiting evaluation for a month now, and unfortunately ElixirBlue didn't come back and respond... If it's only you and me talking here, obviously there won't be much progress done...

I'll just repost everything here:

• Combat-Applicable
  • Energy Manipulation, Life Manipulation and Non-Physical Interaction (Can interact with Power of Existence, a fundamental energy akin to human life force that is required for something to exist and have a presence in our universe. Can interact with creatures made of PoE (such as Rinne), as well as beings of other universes and planes of existence (such as Crimson Denizens). Flame Hazes can use and manipulate the Power of Existence of a person or object, either for Magic or emergency Healing)
  • Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 1, Aspect Types 2, 4 & 5, limited to the human universe/our universe) (When a human enters a contract with a Crimson Lord to become a Flame Haze, their entire Power of Existence is taken up by the Crimson Lord's existence, causing them to lose their identity, presence, history and very own existence in our universe, and drastically reducing the effect they have on it through their actions; they also stop possessing any information related to them as it was erased from existence the moment they lost their human nature. Becoming a Flame Haze doesn't create a new identity nor does it give them a solid presence in our universe, and their body becomes a shell containing the otherworldly life force they obtained from their Crimson Lord. The concept of that other life force doesn't exist in our universe, which makes Flame Hazes made out of something that doesn't exist and cannot be registered from the perspective of our universe. However, other otherworldly beings, such as Crimson Denizens, should be unaffected by a Flame Haze's nonexistent nature)
  • Perception Manipulation (Flame Hazes are, by nature, hard for humans to notice unless they desire it, due to their lack of conventional existence. They can also increase the effect of this ability)
• Not Combat-Applicable
  • Causality Manipulation (They can use a person's Power of Existence to repair physical destruction (like fallen buildings) or immaterial destruction (such as fixing a location's or object's presence and state of balance in the world), merge with someone's PoE and make that person's identity and existence theirs (Like when Shana took the identity of Yukari Hirai after her existence as a human was erased), or use it as energy to perform spells. They can also use PoE to temporarily restore the stolen existence of people to "heal/restore their bodies" and minimize the disruption of balance in the world, akin to pseudo-restoration from Existence Erasure)
  • Limited Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2, Alteration & Destruction), Information Manipulation (Type 2) and Existence Erasure (Can directly manipulate the concept of a person's existence, and have it affect the entire human universe, either erasing it entirely, or turning it into a different form, or even merging it with their own being, or using PoE as a placeholder temporary existence for someone whose existence was erased. Whatever the action, all concepts, objects and ideas tied to that person's existence are also altered at the same time to fit the new form and "identity" of the existence, and the fundamental knowledge regarding it shifts accordingly (like when Shana truly became Yukari in the eyes of the entire world despite their differences in personality, voice and body; of Yukari's belongings (including her family) became Shana's version of "Yukari", and the changes to the concept of Yukari Hirai as an existence were forced upon the world and turned into a fact). Such abilities are only applicable in the human universe or universes that work on the same rules as ours, and would not work in the Crimson Realm or equally vastly different universes)
• Resistances
  • Partial Resistance to Information Manipulation (Type 2) (Flame Hazes don't possess any information or history about their humanity altogether to be manipulated, and that from the moment they become Flame Hazes. Their information as Flame Hazes can likely be manipulated, but only by users who can apply that ability to other universes with fundamentally different energies)
  • Partial Resistance to Perception Manipulation (Flame Hazes can resist the passive lack of presence exuding from other Flame Hazes and Crimson Denizens, but don't resist the ability if it comes from a separate spell or mechanism, or if it's purposely amplified)
  • Partial Resistance to Life Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation and Existence Erasure (The life force, body, history and "existence" of Flame Hazes refers to a vacuum opened in the universe's space-time, all of which were sacrificed to cease their human existence and to enter a contract with their respective Crimson Lord; the concept of "human" stopped applying to them entirely. Those aspects cannot be tampered with because: 1) the presence, identity, history and existence of a Flame Haze's human life have stopped existing, 2) in their place came forth a new "existence" that is made up of their Crimson Lord's life force, who comes from the Crimson Realm, another universe, 3) that new "existence" can be erased by neither human-universe abilities (due to Flame Hazes not existing in a conventional human-universe sense), nor by otherwordly abilities (because the energy of the Crimson Realm, what Flame Hazes are partially made of, cannot be erased or tampered with by Denizens or other Flame Hazes). If a Flame Haze, Denizen or Torch dies, their belongings vanish from existence and other Flame Haze or Denizens who knew them keep their memories of them, but humans do not). Flame Hazes should however be vulnerable to abilities messing with the unique life force of the Crimson Realm, or, in simpler terms, to Life/Conceptual/Existence Manipulation that can affect beings from fundamentally different universes and worlds from ours)

Like I explained a few times already, the point is simply to evaluate if the wording, scans and justifications of the abilities make sense and are valid to be used as they are. If something is amiss, then what is the issue, what would be further needed, or how should it be presented if the current presentation isn't good enough

Thank you.

@JustSomeWeirdo @Theglassman12 @Crabwhale @Eficiente @GyroNutz @DarkGrath @Moritzva

Would any of you be willing to help out with evaluating this please? You can obviously ask questions if you wish.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Most of the abilities and justifications had been accepted already; only a few hadn't, which is what lead me to compile more scans and update the listing.
It's this updated version that hasn't been evaluated, yet... it's been awaiting evaluation for a month now, and unfortunately ElixirBlue didn't come back and respond... If it's only you and me talking here, obviously there won't be much progress done...

I'll just repost everything here:

• Combat-Applicable
  • Energy Manipulation, Life Manipulation and Non-Physical Interaction (Can interact with Power of Existence, a fundamental energy akin to human life force that is required for something to exist and have a presence in our universe. Can interact with creatures made of PoE (such as Rinne), as well as beings of other universes and planes of existence (such as Crimson Denizens). Flame Hazes can use and manipulate the Power of Existence of a person or object, either for Magic or emergency Healing)
  • Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 1, Aspect Types 2, 4 & 5, limited to the human universe/our universe) (When a human enters a contract with a Crimson Lord to become a Flame Haze, their entire Power of Existence is taken up by the Crimson Lord's existence, causing them to lose their identity, presence, history and very own existence in our universe, and drastically reducing the effect they have on it through their actions; they also stop possessing any information related to them as it was erased from existence the moment they lost their human nature. Becoming a Flame Haze doesn't create a new identity nor does it give them a solid presence in our universe, and their body becomes a shell containing the otherworldly life force they obtained from their Crimson Lord. The concept of that other life force doesn't exist in our universe, which makes Flame Hazes made out of something that doesn't exist and cannot be registered from the perspective of our universe. However, other otherworldly beings, such as Crimson Denizens, should be unaffected by a Flame Haze's nonexistent nature)
  • Perception Manipulation (Flame Hazes are, by nature, hard for humans to notice unless they desire it, due to their lack of conventional existence. They can also increase the effect of this ability)
• Not Combat-Applicable
  • Causality Manipulation (They can use a person's Power of Existence to repair physical destruction (like fallen buildings) or immaterial destruction (such as fixing a location's or object's presence and state of balance in the world), merge with someone's PoE and make that person's identity and existence theirs (Like when Shana took the identity of Yukari Hirai after her existence as a human was erased), or use it as energy to perform spells. They can also use PoE to temporarily restore the stolen existence of people to "heal/restore their bodies" and minimize the disruption of balance in the world, akin to pseudo-restoration from Existence Erasure)
  • Limited Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2, Alteration & Destruction), Information Manipulation (Type 2) and Existence Erasure (Can directly manipulate the concept of a person's existence, and have it affect the entire human universe, either erasing it entirely, or turning it into a different form, or even merging it with their own being, or using PoE as a placeholder temporary existence for someone whose existence was erased. Whatever the action, all concepts, objects and ideas tied to that person's existence are also altered at the same time to fit the new form and "identity" of the existence, and the fundamental knowledge regarding it shifts accordingly (like when Shana truly became Yukari in the eyes of the entire world despite their differences in personality, voice and body; of Yukari's belongings (including her family) became Shana's version of "Yukari", and the changes to the concept of Yukari Hirai as an existence were forced upon the world and turned into a fact). Such abilities are only applicable in the human universe or universes that work on the same rules as ours, and would not work in the Crimson Realm or equally vastly different universes)
• Resistances
  • Partial Resistance to Information Manipulation (Type 2) (Flame Hazes don't possess any information or history about their humanity altogether to be manipulated, and that from the moment they become Flame Hazes. Their information as Flame Hazes can likely be manipulated, but only by users who can apply that ability to other universes with fundamentally different energies)
  • Partial Resistance to Perception Manipulation (Flame Hazes can resist the passive lack of presence exuding from other Flame Hazes and Crimson Denizens, but don't resist the ability if it comes from a separate spell or mechanism, or if it's purposely amplified)
  • Partial Resistance to Life Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation and Existence Erasure (The life force, body, history and "existence" of Flame Hazes refers to a vacuum opened in the universe's space-time, all of which were sacrificed to cease their human existence and to enter a contract with their respective Crimson Lord; the concept of "human" stopped applying to them entirely. Those aspects cannot be tampered with because: 1) the presence, identity, history and existence of a Flame Haze's human life have stopped existing, 2) in their place came forth a new "existence" that is made up of their Crimson Lord's life force, who comes from the Crimson Realm, another universe, 3) that new "existence" can be erased by neither human-universe abilities (due to Flame Hazes not existing in a conventional human-universe sense), nor by otherwordly abilities (because the energy of the Crimson Realm, what Flame Hazes are partially made of, cannot be erased or tampered with by Denizens or other Flame Hazes). If a Flame Haze, Denizen or Torch dies, their belongings vanish from existence and other Flame Haze or Denizens who knew them keep their memories of them, but humans do not). Flame Hazes should however be vulnerable to abilities messing with the unique life force of the Crimson Realm, or, in simpler terms, to Life/Conceptual/Existence Manipulation that can affect beings from fundamentally different universes and worlds from ours)

Like I explained a few times already, the point is simply to evaluate if the wording, scans and justifications of the abilities make sense and are valid to be used as they are. If something is amiss, then what is the issue, what would be further needed, or how should it be presented if the current presentation isn't good enough

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @UchihaSlayer96 @Maverick_Zero_X @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo

Would any of you be willing to help out with evaluating this please? You can obviously ask questions if you wish.