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Aight ima read the OP, wish me luck.
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SCP CRT : Massively Downgrade and Abilities addition Part 1
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I'm actually kinda salty someone got to this before me but eh.
So the 682, 343 thing is correct. The tale where the scan for 682's immortality from 343 is from the Pitch Haven canon. Pitch Haven is a canon that has mythology loosely based on Abrahamic Faith but with furries. It has absolutely no relation to 682 whatsoever.
The only link 343 has to 682 is the Competitive Eschatology hub, wherein 343 gave 682 its full power. However, this in no way insinuates that 343 is responsible for its immortality.
I'll speak about the other points later.
So the 682, 343 thing is correct. The tale where the scan for 682's immortality from 343 is from the Pitch Haven canon. Pitch Haven is a canon that has mythology loosely based on Abrahamic Faith but with furries. It has absolutely no relation to 682 whatsoever.
The only link 343 has to 682 is the Competitive Eschatology hub, wherein 343 gave 682 its full power. However, this in no way insinuates that 343 is responsible for its immortality.
I'll speak about the other points later.
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Basically: Lot's of points here are for people smarter than me. Scaling High-Elder Gods to regular Elder Gods is a no-no, as their full power can destroy the lower regions of the tree. Unless we scale this feat to others, which doesn't make sense. Also, the quote where you linked it is extremely vague and needs more context.
Transduality is also able to be interperted in many ways, but I don't see anything transdual there. I agree with you on 682 stuff, and everything else i'm waiting for the argument.
Transduality is also able to be interperted in many ways, but I don't see anything transdual there. I agree with you on 682 stuff, and everything else i'm waiting for the argument.
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OH MY GOD! We need to make a SCP-6666 Profile now!
That's a joke make what you want lol
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Okay, im back, typing up a lengthy response now
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It doesnt come from Pitch Haven though, theres like five tales that all have 682 being cursed by 343 to be sealed on Earth
If the scan on 682's profile is for pitch haven it should be fixed, 682 has a ton of instances of being cursed by 343
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He is not even a avatar? Just a separate entity?
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Funny thing is theres literally like two or three tales that flat out say that 343 is an avatar of The All-Mighty
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Historically speaking you do tend to take awhile to actually make a large post about a subject.
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If you can just link them, that'd be great.
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Will do
Almost like i have an irl job and sleep schedule that takes priority, that and not only do i need to go through everything in the OP but now that people ignored what i asked and decided to just pile on agreements before the OP itself could be dissected i now need to go through everyone else's responses to take those apart as well, all while people will invitably be piling on more FRAs before i even finish my first actual rebuttal to this revision
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No I get that part. I'm not criticizing you for that since I have similar issues and also take awhile to respond at times; It's just that you can't be shocked that people agree with the OP before you make a counter argument when it takes awhile to make said counter argument.
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Problem is i already brought up beforhand that th majority of the aguments for this revision are using stuff that we dont use or consider canon for SCP, such as WoG or the SCPSandbox, its part of our rules for the verse but people FRAed the OP anyways
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I can't speak for the other stuff, but the WoG the OP use does not break our rules about WoG if that's where your issue is stemming from.
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No i mean we accpt no WoG whatsoever for SCP, we dont use it at all, its part of the rason why 1-B was removed as the scaling for it came from WoG
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I'm not seeing that on our rules page for the series. In fact if anything this quote gives me the impression WoG is valid if its solely about the author's work.
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Also the argument of 'Rabbit didnt ask the questions so the WoG is fine to use' is faulty as the questions are still targeted and still heavily contradictory to basically the entire story. Again its a Godzilla in Hell problem, even if it was someone else who asked the questions they still wouldnt be legitimate to use for those reasons lest we make Godzilla in Hell Tier 0 for a series of clarification questions that lead to WoG that Godzilla can kill Yog-Sothoth, the Abrahamic God, and beings that transcend infinite stacks of higher spatial dimensions
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the WoG here doesn't contradict the story tho, nor does it make claims that inherently wank the characters beyond their shown stuff
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Yeah this is just story clarification.
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Th WoG here claims that Leviathans are just normal whales and that He Who Made Light and He Who Mad Dark dont exist, thats pretty ****** contradictory my guy
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Its not though, none of the qustions had anything to do with his stories
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not really
the leviathans being whales comes from a story, so not contradictory to his own canon, also he said the embody different things, not that they don't exist, from what i understood
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His own canon describes leviathans as eldritch abominations and beings of amorphous flesh with no true form
His own canon also flat out established thos who made as th beings who were the darkness that the brothrs spawned from
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Interviewing Icons - Djoric - SCP Foundation
The SCP Foundation's 'top-secret' archives, declassified for your enjoyment.
scp-wiki.wikidot.com
"682 was referenced pretty openly in the tale as one of the children of the 4th Bride, so that's no surprise. The link to the Scarlet King is actually much more convoluted than it needs to be: this was the era of my dumb insistence that 231 was a whale, and 682's image is that of a rotting whale carcass, so if the Scarlet King is whale/leviathan themed, then obviously there's a connection."
Djoric in his own interview says that the idea that theyre literal whales is dumb
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I don't care, people can FRA what they want, we'll still wait on you for a big reply.
This has never been a thing. We use WoG, 1-B was removed as there was no good scaling for it, and a lot of the tales with statements we used were deleted. I don't remember any WoG scaling being presented.
This feels like a false comparison. This isn't giving characters feats ludicrously above ones they have, it's a quick clarification on who a mysterious character is/isn't.
ofc we still put the story itself above WoG, so if you can unambiguously demonstrate that the characters in question are who you say they are, against WoG, that would suffice. We don't dismiss WoG outright, we need to demonstrate how it goes against the story.
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And im still working on it, theres a lot to unpack
The WoG that Verse of an Endless Song and Acidverse are the same cosmology
The Godzilla in Hell WoG im referring to is a clarification of characters as well, specifically 'clarifying' characters that Godzilla encountered in the comic:
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I mean i already posted a direct statement from Djoric's interview of him saying that the idea that the Leviathans are just normal whales is dumb so.
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The WoG that Verse of an Endless Song and Acidverse are the same cosmology
That doesn't prove that the true reality that few have seen with uncountable dimensions in uncountable spaces scales to fodder. We already assumed that they're the same cosmology/reality, the issue is scaling god-tiers to the deepest parts of it.
The Godzilla in Hell WoG im referring to is a clarification of characters as well, specifically 'clarifying' characters that Godzilla encountered in the comic:
Killing a featless God/Yog-Sothoth isn't a feat. I was referring to your claim of there being WoG that Godzilla killed "beings that transcend infinite stacks of higher spatial dimensions".
I mean i already posted a direct statement from Djoric's interview of him saying that the idea that the Leviathans are just normal whales is dumb so.
Fair.
That doesn't prove that the true reality that few have seen with uncountable dimensions in uncountable spaces scales to fodder. We already assumed that they're the same cosmology/reality, the issue is scaling god-tiers to the deepest parts of it.
The Godzilla in Hell WoG im referring to is a clarification of characters as well, specifically 'clarifying' characters that Godzilla encountered in the comic:
Killing a featless God/Yog-Sothoth isn't a feat. I was referring to your claim of there being WoG that Godzilla killed "beings that transcend infinite stacks of higher spatial dimensions".
I mean i already posted a direct statement from Djoric's interview of him saying that the idea that the Leviathans are just normal whales is dumb so.
Fair.
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Acidverse has 8-D stuff and characters that can create 11-D constructs even ignoring the High 1-B statements
I'll show it later on discord if i can find it, this isnt a godzilla thread
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Acidverse has 8-D stuff and characters that can create 11-D constructs even ignoring the High 1-B statements
Which would need to meet our newer standards for dimensional shenanigans.
Those statements weren't ignored because "Acidverse has nothing to do with Verse of an Endless Song", we use Acidverse stuff for some of our profiles. They were ignored because they weren't brought up/because they didn't have supporting context that'd make them qualify for higher tiers.
Which would need to meet our newer standards for dimensional shenanigans.
Those statements weren't ignored because "Acidverse has nothing to do with Verse of an Endless Song", we use Acidverse stuff for some of our profiles. They were ignored because they weren't brought up/because they didn't have supporting context that'd make them qualify for higher tiers.
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Honestly I kinda want to remain netural, Rabbit's arguments have some validity to them but I'm not the biggest SCP reader at the moment so I'll wait for Weekly or whoever has a problem with it.
Though to add on to something about 343, wasn't it stated that 343 was one of The All Mighty's avatars or something? I think it was from the tale, chaoskampf and creation
Though to add on to something about 343, wasn't it stated that 343 was one of The All Mighty's avatars or something? I think it was from the tale, chaoskampf and creation
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We don't use Chaoskampf and Creation, it doesn't have a high enough rating.
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Yeah I know about the whole rating thing, something about having to have a high rating to be useable right?
If that's the case, then yeah I don't think 343 in most tales has had a big impact on the overall cosmic hiearchy
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Sorry im taking so long, i keep getting sidetracked by irl stuff
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Hey whatever you got to do, IRL stuff should be anyone's number one priority
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The fact that this entire argument is based on Djoric's terrible rewrite interpretation of 343 is genuinely painful and i cannot believe im losing sleep over it.
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Okay, so before i post the full thing (and because im falling asleep writing this because its 3:30 in the morning), im going to make this easier on both of us and just clarify a few things because they came up multiple times:
1. The majority of this argument is based on the idea that Djoric is the sole source of information across the entirety of SCP and the sole interpretation for all characters in the verse. This is simply not true.
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He did not write all of these tales and articles nor is he the sole source of information or canon regarding them.
2. Djoric's WoG is not only heavily contradictory to every interpretation of the characters in question, but contradicts his own story, and he has gone on record in an interview saying that his former WoG was wrong.
tvtropes.org
I would recommend familiarizing yourself with this Rabbit, it is used here rather frequently
This combined with the fact that his WoG heavily contradicts both his own stories and the collective stories of the site as a whole and Djoric confirming that his previous statements were incorrect gives further weight to the fact that his old WoG statements cannot be used.
So to summarize, Djoric is not the primary interpretation of SCP or even just 343 or 682, arguing from the standpoint that he is the sole source of information is faulty. The interpretation that 343 is just a normal joe schmoe type green is not the primary interpretation of the character, as evidenced by Djoric doing a full rewrite of 343 in order to make said interpretation work. Due to Djoric's Word of God heavily contradicting the greater narrative and even contradicting his own works to an extent, and his WoG being inaccurat by his own admission, means that it is likely ineligible for use.
1. The majority of this argument is based on the idea that Djoric is the sole source of information across the entirety of SCP and the sole interpretation for all characters in the verse. This is simply not true.
Djoric is not the sole writer of all tales that include the Scarlet King and the Brothers Death.
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He did not write all of these tales and articles nor is he the sole source of information or canon regarding them.
So did Eskobar, that doesnt mean its the primary interpretation of 343, especially when, as both you and Ricsi linked, Djoric literally rewrote 343's entire character and background in order to write his interpretation of him. You seem to believe that on this site we solely use Djoric's interpretations and nothing else when in fact we do not. Also, Djoric did not write 343 so his interpretation would take a backseat to the mainline canon interpretation which is that 343 is a mostly benevolent Old God.
Case in point. Djoric is not the primary canon for 343 and we do not treat him as such on this site, and the fact that he did a rewrite of 343 for his interpretation of him solidifies that.
2. Djoric's WoG is not only heavily contradictory to every interpretation of the characters in question, but contradicts his own story, and he has gone on record in an interview saying that his former WoG was wrong.
Death of the Author - TV Tropes
...is the birth of the reader. Death of the Author is a concept from mid-20th Century literary criticism; it holds that an author's intentions and biographical facts (the author's politics, religion, etc) should hold no special weight in …
tvtropes.org
I would recommend familiarizing yourself with this Rabbit, it is used here rather frequently
This combined with the fact that his WoG heavily contradicts both his own stories and the collective stories of the site as a whole and Djoric confirming that his previous statements were incorrect gives further weight to the fact that his old WoG statements cannot be used.
So to summarize, Djoric is not the primary interpretation of SCP or even just 343 or 682, arguing from the standpoint that he is the sole source of information is faulty. The interpretation that 343 is just a normal joe schmoe type green is not the primary interpretation of the character, as evidenced by Djoric doing a full rewrite of 343 in order to make said interpretation work. Due to Djoric's Word of God heavily contradicting the greater narrative and even contradicting his own works to an extent, and his WoG being inaccurat by his own admission, means that it is likely ineligible for use.
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I will post the other half tomorrow, sorry this is taking so long but hopefully these points can be discussed and agreed on to make the actual rebuttal go a bit smoother
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