Add High-Godly again to the gods and reject High-Godly for Yogiri.

[Azertyhuuh]

This is the Sweet Dao topic regarding its removal previously, and the topic I will discuss today is completely different from the argument Sweet Dao addressed in his statement. I ask everyone to stay on topic; any off-topic comment will be reported immediately, and I have already warned you.

I will be busy these days, so I may be very late in responding—possibly for days or more—because I am really quite occupied. Also, I hope this discussion does not drag on for too long.

---

The Great Sage Mitsuki is capable of erasing characters from the past, present, and future entirely—meaning from the entire timeline. They would become as if they never existed at all and would be completely forgotten. This is the nature of his erasure ability.

It has already been discussed here, and @Vietthai96 agreed that any character who returns from erasure on this level would necessarily have High-Godly regeneration, because erasure at this level makes you as if you never existed at all, affecting everything about you (your soul, mind, body, information, and concept—like you never existed in the first place). Returning from this implies High-Godly regeneration.

Evidence that gods can regenerate from Mitsuki’s erasure:

• First, it is stated that gods are indestructible; they can return from death and cannot be killed at all. Even if you kill or erase them, they will reappear again, and there is no way to permanently erase them. Thus, the victor always ends up sealing the god to win, because killing them is impossible, and sealing is what ends the conflict.

• It is also stated that death for gods is merely another state of existence from which they eventually recover and return to life. Death and annihilation for gods are simply another phase of existence.

• The Great Sage Mitsuki himself, who is capable of erasing a character’s entire history (past, present, and future), was unable to erase the gods. Mitsuki was forced to seal them instead, because gods would return even after being killed. Therefore, he had no choice but to seal them to deal with them. This further supports that such erasure is ineffective against gods.

• Complete erasure, causality erasure, and conceptual attacks—these kinds of abilities are possible for anyone within the Sea, and gods (as well as most characters in Instant Death) resist, survive, or negate them.

Response to Hecky2222 statement here:

What happened here is that Mitsuki was going to erase Yogiri across the entire timeline (past, present, and future), as if he had never existed and would be completely forgotten. When Mitsuki prepared the erasure bullet in his hand, he threw it calmly and at a deliberately slow speed because he knew it could not be avoided; even if Yogiri tried to escape, it would follow him regardless. Yogiri was aware of this, so he opened his third gate and freed himself from all constraints. He then severed the connection between Mitsuki and his dream, which led to the loss of Mitsuki’s authority over the dream. This caused the erasure bullet to fail to reach Yogiri, since he had been disconnected from the dream, resulting in the cancellation of the erasure shot that was heading toward him. That is all.

Evidence ↓

Spoiler: Evidence

The Great Sage raised his right hand. A small light illuminated at its tip.

"This looks seriously bad!"
"Indeed."

Yogiri, a novice, had no way of knowing the potency of magical-like powers just by looking. However, the wild pressure it held was something anyone could feel.

"Let's call it the Erasure Bullet. If it hits, it erases the existence in the past, present, and future. Simply put, I just forget about you and don't remember."
"So, because this is your dream, if you forget about something, its existence disappears?"
"That's right. There's really no need to resort to this kind of method, but I thought it would add a bit of a challenge. It's about the speed a person would throw, so if you try hard, you can avoid it. Here it goes."
"Please wait!"
Volume 14, Chapter 17

“The Great Sage, as if he were playing catch, threw the ball of light.”

Volume 14, Chapter 17

“He had thrown an annihilation bullet, and Yogiri hadn't dodged it.

“Since he didn't remember the scene of the bullet hitting, it seemed to have turned into the current situation just before it hit.”

Volume 14, Chapter 17

"If you're asking, I have no choice but to answer. I will tell you. Takato Yogiri has severed the connection between you and the world."

"...What... does that mean...?"

He didn’t understand. He knew how to kill a living being. He barely understood how to kill a phenomenon like gravity. But what did it mean to kill a connection?

Imagine the world as someone’s dream—how could one escape its influence? You would need to sever your connection to the dream. You would need to lose the ability to manipulate it freely. That is what Takato Yogiri likely thought.

"...What does that mean...?"

I gave you an example involving a game earlier. Using that analogy, it’s as if your controller has been broken. In other words, you can no longer do anything.

Volume 14, Chapter 17

Conclusion:​

• Gods possess High-Godly regeneration.
• Yogiri is excluded from High-Godly.

---

Agree: @Vietthai96 @Elizhaa @Random-Helper323
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Iiliminal]

Yakub and his children are perplexed.

 

[Mbpoops]

Following likely agree tho

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Holy shit ya'll ID folk are being a pain in the neck spamming these threads and going past the limit of how many said threads can be open, will respond with reasons for disagreeing soon.

 

[sukuna171]

My opinion is pretty much the same I commented here gods at the minimum should be mid-godly .

 

[sukuna171]

Wait, are you implying that Yogiri and his true form should have regeneration? They only have regeneration negation, not regeneration itself.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

My opinion is pretty much the same I commented here gods at the minimum should be mid-godly .

It would be High-Godly because erasing a character’s entire history (past, present, and future) would completely erase their existence as if they had never existed at all, and everyone would forget them.

This type of erasure would remove everything (the soul, mind, body, information, and absolutely everything, as if they had never existed in Instant Death). Since gods possess information-based existence, they are able to return through information, and therefore, as I said, this would qualify as High-Godly.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Wait, are you implying that Yogiri and his true form should have regeneration? They only have regeneration negation, not regeneration itself.

Yes, that is correct. He will only have High-Godly negation.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

This isn't regeneration, it's resurrection.

Even your own scans say so.

Gods were fundamentally indestructible. Even if you killed or erased them, in time they would reappear. So in battles between gods, it was common for the winner to either enslave the loser or take measures to seal them away.

"I believed it was also acceptable to kill you. You and the UEG both lost, so erasing you completely seemed appropriate. But Lord Mitsuki is kinder than I am."
"Kind? If he's so kind, why did he seal me away?!"
"He was kind in that he did not take your life. Then again, if he had, you would have just revived somewhere else, so if he wished to never see you again, sealing you away was perhaps the best option. If you interfere with the current game, however, I will not mind killing you, so if you wish to die, please do exactly that."

This should be Resurrection (High-Godly over time) and not applicable to combat.

 

[Robo432343]

gods cant even regen from their cores being destroyed
thats a pretty big antifeat

 

[sukuna171]

This isn't regeneration, it's resurrection.

Even your own scans say so.




This should be Resurrection (High-Godly over time) and not applicable to combat.

I can Get behind that logic

 

[Maniaunavailable]

this was already addresed no? so yeah mid godly is fine ig edit: well no actually it has an anti feat lol, gods cant regen their core, it could not even be mid godly

 

[sukuna171]

gods cant even regen from their cores being destroyed
thats a pretty big antifeat

Yes, gods very much cease to exist when their divine core is destroyed and then go to the realm of darkness, where they eventually regenerate or resurrect.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

gods cant even regen from their cores being destroyed
thats a pretty big antifeat

Why cant it be they can regenerate on that level as long as their core remains if this is the case?

 

[Robo432343]

Yes, gods very much cease to exist when their divine core is destroyed and then go to the realm of darkness, where they eventually regenerate or resurrect.

hmm that should be fine then

 

[Azertyhuuh]

This isn't regeneration, it's resurrection.

Even your own scans say so.




This should be Resurrection (High-Godly over time) and not applicable to combat.

Wrong.

The word “resurrection” means “return.” You can look at the other contexts I provided in the thread—gods are capable of returning even after being erased and killed, as shown here.

Higher gods like UEG can return in less than a single second after being erased, as demonstrated when Toichiro erased it. This duration also varies depending on the type and rank of the god—unless you’re unaware that gods have hierarchical ranks.

In that context, “resurrection” specifically means returning from death. There are many other contexts that support this interpretation, and higher gods, in particular, can return in under a second.

"There should have been no end to the cycle, but suddenly there was. Touichirou's attack had erased the universe containing the UEG."

"How many times had they repeated this cycle? The UEG was standing behind Touichirou once again."

"Indeed, I was erased, but sorry, that is not enough to kill me."

@Vietthai96 has already responded to these points himself and explained them, and this is what he said:

I just want to say something, most of the time, resurrection and regeneration at high level are overlapping each other. Literally the moment your body, soul, mind or sometime more fundamental aspects of your get destroyed you are generally considered as dead anyway, so regen from this "dead" state is no different than resurrect your self back to life. So nitpicking word/sematic in these cases is pointless and, no offend, low effort argument

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Wrong.

The word “resurrection” means “return.” You can look at the other contexts I provided in the thread—gods are capable of returning even after being erased and killed, as shown here.

You know that the word "return" needs context to grant it an ability, right?

It could be regeneration, resurrection, or anything else, since it's fiction.

So far, I haven't seen any scans with the word "regeneration," only that they return, and later you give the context of how they return, which is through resurrection, not regeneration.

Higher gods like UEG can return in less than a single second after being erased, as demonstrated when Toichiro erased it. This duration also varies depending on the type and rank of the god—unless you’re unaware that gods have hierarchical ranks.

In that context, “resurrection” specifically means returning from death. There are many other contexts that support this interpretation, and higher gods, in particular, can return in under a second.

You directly mentioned gods, so you need to specify which rank of gods, over time, grants each rank the ability to return.

@Vietthai96 has already responded to these points himself and explained them, and this is what he said:

I'm not one to argue with a moderator, but in this case, I see that point as problematic. If the scan had used "regeneration," there wouldn't be a problem, but it says "resurrection." If we treat them as the same, then other verses could add layers of resistance to the negation of regeneration or resurrection if they are equivalent in that sense.


In any case, it's not that I disagree, it's simply that it's about resurrection, because so far you haven't given a scan that says regeneration, you should specify the time range for each type and rank of gods in which they can return, not in a general way as you have done.

 

[Robo432343]

You know that the word "return" needs context to grant it an ability, right?

It could be regeneration, resurrection, or anything else, since it's fiction.

So far, I haven't seen any scans with the word "regeneration," only that they return, and later you give the context of how they return, which is through resurrection, not regeneration.


You directly mentioned gods, so you need to specify which rank of gods, over time, grants each rank the ability to return.


I'm not one to argue with a moderator, but in this case, I see that point as problematic. If the scan had used "regeneration," there wouldn't be a problem, but it says "resurrection." If we treat them as the same, then other verses could add layers of resistance to the negation of regeneration or resurrection if they are equivalent in that sense.


In any case, it's not that I disagree, it's simply that it's about resurrection, because so far you haven't given a scan that says regeneration, you should specify the time range for each type and rank of gods in which they can return, not in a general way as you have done.

we treat regeneration and resurrection as practically the same thing when it comes to high godly
there isn't really a huge difference

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

we treat regeneration and resurrection as practically the same thing when it comes to high godly
there isn't really a huge difference

I see it, but wouldn't this lead to resistance to the negation of resurrection and regeneration in other verses?

Character A is erased but returns with the word resurrection.

Character B kills character A by denying their immortality, thus demonstrating a negation of resurrection (which is equivalent to regeneration).

Then character B tries to kill character C, who regenerates despite being erased, but cannot deny their immortality.

Does this mean that character C has a resistance to the negation of regeneration?

 

[Robo432343]

I see it, but wouldn't this lead to resistance to the negation of resurrection and regeneration in other verses?

Character A is erased but returns with the word resurrection.

Character B kills character A by denying their immortality, thus demonstrating a negation of resurrection (which is equivalent to regeneration).

Then character B tries to kill character C, who regenerates despite being erased, but cannot deny their immortality.

Does this mean that character C has a resistance to the negation of regeneration?

what.
i think you should take that to another thread lol

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

what.
i think you should take that to another thread lol

That thread would be for staff only.

I don't want to do it because I didn't see any problems with this either, since they differentiate well (from the ones I've seen).

Besides, I've only seen the same moderator (Viet) say resurrection = regeneration from the links you sent; there aren't several.

Okay, let's stop cluttering the thread with this, let's wait for counterarguments and the opinions of the staff.

 

[Exoko]

This isn't regeneration, it's resurrection.

It overlaps unless the resurrection is via reincarnation

I see it, but wouldn't this lead to resistance to the negation of resurrection and regeneration in other verses?

Character A is erased but returns with the word resurrection.

Character B kills character A by denying their immortality, thus demonstrating a negation of resurrection (which is equivalent to regeneration).

Then character B tries to kill character C, who regenerates despite being erased, but cannot deny their immortality.

Does this mean that character C has a resistance to the negation of regeneration?

If A and C have the same degree of regeneration (I.e high godly), and both have immortality type 3 (immortality via regeneration) then C would have resistance to high godly regeneration negation.
Type 3 immortality overlaps with Type 4 which is via resurrection, type 4 can also be reincarnation so they got grouped up together.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

If a character can regenerate from an attack that inherently stops regeneration, that's resistance to regeneration negation, yeah.

That being said, regardless the feat is over time or not, if it is High Godly, Yogiri shall gain regeneration negation anyway given characters killed by him cannot come back anyway.

That being said, History aspect HGR seems fine from what I'm seeing. If Mitsuki can erase people from History, yet he cannot erase Gods without them coming back, that seems good enough for me. Neutral on other aspects, though.

Also, what is the "core", specifically? It could be an aspect that is superior to history, concept or whatever in the verse, so not necessarily an anti-feat. Similar to how in Fate "Soul" contains the concept, information or something.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Okay, so I guess I need to correct a few things in my character blog .

If that's the case, then I guess it's fine.

I only mentioned the time thing because it might not apply to combat when fighting other characters, not that Yogiri doesn't get regeneration negation if I'm not missing anything.

 

[sukuna171]

Also, when Yogiri kills a god, they don’t end up in the Sea of Darkness.

“Well...I have nothing else to do, so I guess I can just relax and watch.”
If the angels decided to do anything, it would probably have an effect
regardless of where she was watching from, so she would be able to figure it
out. For now, there was nothing more she could do.
“Actually, where’s Rilna?”
Rilna had died around the same time Malna had, so it wouldn’t be strange
if she was close by. Since she had died first, if she was anywhere, she would
be deeper down. Malna turned to the depths of the darkness. There was
nothing but empty blackness. If someone was down there, she should have
seen them. Light and dark were subjective here, so it wasn’t like the darkness
could impede her vision.
But Malna was completely alone. No matter how much she doubted her
eyes, she couldn’t see anyone but herself.

It was like she was slowly sinking to the bottom of a sea of darkness. That
was what the experience of death was like for Malna. Above the surface of
the water, she could still see the world she had lived in, but she was unable to
influence it anymore. How long would she be able to see it? Before long,
darkness would close in around her and she wouldn’t be able to see anything.
“Ah, dang it! This sucks! This totally sucks!”
She had let down her guard. She had underestimated Kouryu, thinking he
was powerless. She could come up with any number of excuses, but the fact
of the matter was that she had been outsmarted. She wanted to get back at
him somehow, but she didn’t know if her anger and frustration would last
until her resurrection.
For a god, death wasn’t the end, but she would be unable to do anything
for a significant amount of time.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Also, when Yogiri kills a god, they don’t end up in the Sea of Darkness.

Isn't this nep 1?

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Isn't this nep 1?

Yes, that’s true, but I’ll leave this for another topic.

 

[Elizhaa]

High-Godly regeneration would likely be overtime. High-Godly regeneration negation. Bypassing God's multilocation and type 3 acausality suggest that erasure must also total erasure:

• Possession, Multilocation and Acausality (Type 3; According to UEG, fight between god require one to neutralize all their aspects before they can permanently kill similar to the man which possess similar skill.Type 4; Comparable to Heavenly Record Eater which exist outside of heavenly record system and space-time)

 

[Elizhaa]

Also, when Yogiri kills a god, they don’t end up in the Sea of Darkness.

Yes, that’s true, but I’ll leave this for another topic.

It would have NEP nature type 1 and all other aspects like in the past, from Volume 8 chapter 1 context. The case might also support Yogiri's true form NEP nature type 1 and all other aspects like in the past also: UEG melted into his darkness, an endless darkness where nothing exists and nothing can exist along with the suggestions that there is nothing beyond it like suggested in a past thread; edit: It somewhat off topic, but Acausaility type 4 removal from Yogiri was largely from The Demon King is Unbeatable's evidence which was removed from the god's cases on passive causality manipulation and invincibility and that also weaken or removed conceptual manipulation evidence, which further weaken the evidence of acausality in the past, that got reinstated; the justification probably would have been like this:

• Acausality (Type 4; Exists outside the system of the heavenly records and space-time. It is imperceptible / incomprehensible even from the point of view of acausal beings such as the HRE, and is stated to be beyond fate and causality itself; additionally, its attacks are also not attached to causality due to its nature).

 

[Elizhaa]

@Vietthai96 @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Reiner04 @Random-Helper323 what do you think if you have the time? Inputs would be appreciated.

 

[Vietthai96]

Hmm, i can't see NEP for the End, from the translation it says that beyond the End is nothing, not that the End itself is nothing. It is like you saying at the end of the road, beyond it is no road

Of course you can argue the darkness to be a void, but that is a stretch

Wait, wasn't this about HGR?. So Mitsuki bullet can history erase someone, did someone regen from that?. I need a summarise here

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Wait, wasn't this about HGR?. So Mitsuki bullet can history erase someone, did someone regen from that?. I need a summarise here

well more in depth: as sukuna said gods are virtually indestructible, able to regenerate from any injury, with only Yogiri having the ability to erase them completely.

 

[Vietthai96]

well more in depth: as sukuna said gods are virtually indestructible, able to regenerate from any injury, with only Yogiri having the ability to erase them completely.

Overtime oke, so do the verse treat this level of erasure as being dead or not?

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Overtime oke, so do the verse treat this level of erasure as being dead or not?

yeah they die, but only by yogiri if I understood correctly

 

[Vietthai96]

yeah they die, but only by yogiri if I understood correctly

So History & Conceptual HGR is oke, overtime regen is oke

HGR neg for Yogiro is oke

I guess

 

[Maniaunavailable]

I guess

cool thx viett

 

[Elizhaa]

Hmm, i can't see NEP for the End, from the translation it says that beyond the nothing, not that the End itself is nothing. It is like you saying at the end of the road, beyond it is no road

Of course you can argue the darkness to be a void, but that is a stretch

Wait, wasn't this about HGR?. So Mitsuki bullet can history erase someone, did someone regen from that?. I need a summarise here

Thanks for the inputs; NEP for Yogiri would likely be for another thread; There kanji 虚無 of nothingness from here used for the darkness and Yogiri's true form is already accepted as the darkness; the official translation seems support the request but I did make a request in OTR thread.
Edit: Yogiri's and gods' NEP were accepted as NEP nature Type 1 and all aspects and also from this; the evidence/arguments that were presented were basically the same or similar to mentioned above; it give more credence that it could be valid; NEP page structured remained the same from that thread.

Spoiler: Text

ならば別の次元を、 並行世界を、 別の宇宙を観ようとしたが、それも叶わなかった。 観ようとした先にあるのも虚無だったのだ。

 

[sukuna171]

Hmm, i can't see NEP for the End, from the translation it says that beyond the nothing, not that the End itself is nothing. It is like you saying at the end of the road, beyond it is no road

Of course you can argue the darkness to be a void, but that is a stretch

Wait, wasn't this about HGR?. So Mitsuki bullet can history erase someone, did someone regen from that?. I need a summarise here

Nothing ID can permanently kill/erased
A god not even mitsuki permanently kill the lowest ranking gods thanks gods ability to regenerate

 

[Elizhaa]

Nothing ID can permanently kill/erased
A god not even mitsuki permanently kill the lowest ranking gods thanks gods ability to regenerate

Yes; UEG, who also erased Toichiro Hakamada and made the effort to fully erased him, believe that he could also come back or regenerate elsewhere (Volume 10 Chapter 19).

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Nothing ID can permanently kill/erased
A god not even mitsuki permanently kill the lowest ranking gods thanks gods ability to regenerate

but yogiri is the exception right?