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Scp 001 SAS vs scp 3812

I'd say swann's proposal

due to it being the representation of the writers, but then we have the whole thing with ben being transended by 3812 but then ageing it was in a story so he still should be below the swann proposal as it is besicly the monefistation of the scp foundation as the community(the unlitmate nerative) and all that jazz
 
How can Swan's Proposal be above SCP-3812? Honest question. SCP-3812 could see Ben typing and decided it wasn't worth his effort. I think that the point is that SCP-3812 will always alter the plot/narrative to insure that any reality it exists in conforms to fit its perception. The article implied that it sees "Ben" as just another aspect of its narrative. So, if "Ben" and Swann's Propsal are even remotely similar, then I don't see how SCP-3812 can lose, as it has power over all narratives--even breaching the 4th wall. I understood that to be 3812's entire "thing"- being unconsciously above all levels of reality/narrative.
 
Orion887 said:
How can Swan's Proposal be above SCP-3812? Honest question. SCP-3812 could see Ben typing and decided it wasn't worth his effort. I think that the point is that SCP-3812 will always alter the plot/narrative to insure that any reality it exists in conforms to fit its perception. The article implied that it sees "Ben" as just another aspect of its narrative. So, if "Ben" and Swann's Propsal are even remotely similar, then I don't see how SCP-3812 can lose, as it has power over all narratives--even breaching the 4th wall. I understood that to be 3812's entire "thing"- being unconsciously above all levels of reality/narrative.
Click to expand...
I believe , and this is from my opinion, "ben" is a completely different "entity" per se, from Swann's proposal. Yes, "Ben" is the writer of SCP-3812, but "Ben"is still within, and his existence, was in the story of that article, while Swann's Proposal is meant to be representing those Writers , those authors , the folks back at the SCP Foundation wiki , so Swann's Proposal, would be above SCP-3812.
 
He sort of ascended past the writers already. To the point where someone that SHOULD be on the level of 001 was unable to write him out of existence. My vote goes to 3812.
 
This is... Complicated.

Ben, the writer entity that 3812 surpassed, is never stated to be SCP-001-SWN or be related, or analogous in any way. (Essentially, all of the previous votes are based off incorrect information).

However, I can't find feats of Swann being more than one narrative above the main one, and SCP-3812 has feats of being many narratives above the main one. So since 3812 has higher feats, I'd vote for him.
 
3812 only ever keeps rising above the narratives of the SCP universe and only has the potential to trancend them. Swann created them and exists above them by default. 3812 is just a fictional character Swann wrote down and could just as easily erase him if the mood ever struck him. Stomp.
 
While it is commonly accepted here that Swann created all narratives and exists above them, I couldn't find anything implying that on the actual SCP website.
 
Wasn't Swann outright stated to be all the writers on the Foundation website? Wouldn't that be enough or should we make a CRT about this?
 
@Agnaa I will gladly post any evidence you want as there is a lot implying and/or flat out stating it
 
The Wright Way said:
Wasn't Swann outright stated to be all the writers on the Foundation website? Wouldn't that be enough or should we make a CRT about this?
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We can't know that those writers can actually write up the entire narrative stack, or if they're just one narrative above and it's actually implying that the narrative structure stretches above the real world.

@Weekly Please do.
 
Succa said:
I've got nothing to say other than that this battle will be a hell of a debate on who would win.
Click to expand...
This is difficult. Scp-001 would win, because we are real. But our avatars are not. And scp-3812 trascend all the scp verse, if not others ( the fiction itself.) . So the avatar lose, the real one wins. But scp-001 swann real are we, so we cant fight into the wiki. So the winner is scp-3812
 
001 obviously wins. This "3812 surpasses writers and narratives" thing is a lie. It is not possible for something fictional to be above something real. They only put this ability on 3812 to show how strong he is, but in the end, Azathoth, TOAA and other Tier 0 characters would defeat him (with the exception of Featherine Augustus Aurora, who should not be Tier 0). Even more, 001 SWS Proposal should be Tier 0, since it is something real, and something real obviously goes beyond something fictional.
 
The Wright Way said:
No. 001 is still a fictional character. Being the writer does not make you tier 0. There's a reason Andrew Hussie isn't tier 0. See our fiction and reality interaction page for more info.
Click to expand...
I disagree with what the page says, if a character kills an avatar of a writer, that avatar is actually beyond the character, even if the avatar is dead or defeated, as he represents the creator of it all, so does TOAA and Thanos in Infinity Conflict. Even more, 001 SWS is above all SCP omniverse because he is the one who created and has control over him, in other words, he is the writer, and the writer is above the work, even though he is an "avatar".

This is just my conception. These guys from VS Battles can't define anything they want in fiction. Like, each one has a conception, such as Xeranthemum and Suggsvers Voyagers. Lionel Suggs (Heir's writer to The Stars / Suggsverse) said that in Suggsverse's wikia, Voyagers are beyond the Tiering system, but here in this wikia, they could be Tier 0 or Tier 1-A, or any other Tier level, and that Voyagers are beyond the necessity and essence of omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence.

So you have your conception and I have my own (it's just an opinion)

For me 001 SWS is Tier 0.
 
>Can't define anything we want.

We can on our own website though. Defining how strong fictional characters are is literally the purpose of this website.

Also, Suggsverse is a really bad example to use in vs debates in my experience. Especially given Suggs reputation.

And the avatar argument really doesn't work. Stan Lee's cameos are in no way related to Stan Lee the person for instance. They aren't the author in any respect, just fictional versions of them.
 
I disagree with what the page says, if a character kills an avatar of a writer, that avatar is actually beyond the character, even if the avatar is dead or defeated, as he represents the creator of it all, so does TOAA and Thanos in Infinity Conflict.

I can't tell what this has to do with SAS being tier 0.

Even more, 001 SWS is above all SCP omniverse because he is the one who created and has control over him

Proof? The only statements we have for SAS is that it created the main SCP reality, which certai characters are superior to.

in other words, he is the writer, and the writer is above the work, even though he is an "avatar".

SAS isn't a representation of the writer, but of the site itself, and even that has no implication of being above the narrative stack.

Lionel Suggs (Heir's writer to The Stars / Suggsverse) said that in Suggsverse's wikia, Voyagers are beyond the Tiering system

The tiering system extends forever upwards and forever downwards. There are no upper and lower bounds, so you cannot be beyond the tiering system.

and that Voyagers are beyond the necessity and essence of omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence.

You cannot be beyond omnipotence because on omnipotent being holds every property, including ones that you'd say are "beyond omnipotence". Also, many of Suggs omnipotent/beyond omnipotent characters get beaten, which proves that they're simply not omnipotent.
 
Agnaa said:
I disagree with what the page says, if a character kills an avatar of a writer, that avatar is actually beyond the character, even if the avatar is dead or defeated, as he represents the creator of it all, so does TOAA and Thanos in Infinity Conflict.I can't tell what this has to do with SAS being tier 0.
Even more, 001 SWS is above all SCP omniverse because he is the one who created and has control over him

Proof? The only statements we have for SAS is that it created the main SCP reality, which certai characters are superior to.

in other words, he is the writer, and the writer is above the work, even though he is an "avatar".

SAS isn't a representation of the writer, but of the site itself, and even that has no implication of being above the narrative stack.

Lionel Suggs (Heir's writer to The Stars / Suggsverse) said that in Suggsverse's wikia, Voyagers are beyond the Tiering system

The tiering system extends forever upwards and forever downwards. There are no upper and lower bounds, so you cannot be beyond the tiering system.

and that Voyagers are beyond the necessity and essence of omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence.

You cannot be beyond omnipotence because on omnipotent being holds every property, including ones that you'd say are "beyond omnipotence". Also, many of Suggs omnipotent/beyond omnipotent characters get beaten, which proves that they're simply not omnipotent.
Click to expand...
1. SWS can be both website and writer
2. The writer makes as many realities as he wants
3. It's "Heir To The Stars", I copied from the translator because I don't know much English
4. Being beyond tiering in this case refers to Lionel Suggs's conception. VS Battles tiering design is Tier 0 at most
, so Voyagers are Tier 0 in this wikia, but not Suggsverse in wikia.
5. I know it is not possible to be above omnipotence, but Voyagers do not need omnipotence (according to Suggs) and in Lionel Suggs's view they are above omnipotence 6. What shows from the Infinity Conflict comic book may contradict the Tier 0 issue in TOAA, but to me it remains Tier 0.
 
The Wright Way said:
>Can't define anything we want.
We can on our own website though. Defining how strong fictional characters are is literally the purpose of this website.

Also, Suggsverse is a really bad example to use in vs debates in my experience. Especially given Suggs reputation.

And the avatar argument really doesn't work. Stan Lee's cameos are in no way related to Stan Lee the person for instance. They aren't the author in any respect, just fictional versions of them.
Click to expand...
There is no way to define fiction in general, are several different conceptions, narratives, abilities, characters, paraverses (verses, uni, xeno, meta, hyper, outter, omni, dimensions and others) and characters with abilities that contradict other conceptions and attributes.
 
1. It could be, but that's not how SAS is written. SAS is only the site, Swann's Avatars are the writers and are separate from 001-SAS itself.

2. I don't know what this has to do with anything.

3. ?????

4. ?????

5. So Suggs is just wrong about how words work?

6. What does this have to do with anything?
 
Agnaa said:
1. It could be, but that's not how SAS is written. SAS is only the site, Swann's Avatars are the writers and are separate from 001-SAS itself.
2. I don't know what this has to do with anything.

3. ?????

4. ?????

5. So Suggs is just wrong about how words work?

6. What does this have to do with anything?
Click to expand...
EOD
 
I don't know what that means.
 
Do you have proof that Swann transcends 3812 directly? Or are you just using a blanket "transcends absolutely everything lol" statement?
 
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