Scion vs Novel Kars

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Why would it ever be a limitation? That's not the default assumption at all. You resisting abilities not stated to be limited in such a way at all is... resistance.

Uuhhh.. when has he done this?

Not really. Proving how this is the case instead of saying it is the case is how you make that a thing, not just saying it is.

 

[Livinmeme]

Kars can understand 4D, yes.

and his resistance are 4d Rigth if not kars stomp

 

[The_Smashor]

It's not even resistance, really. It's like someone not being able to be effected by soul manipulation because their soul is in a jar somewhere, for example.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

4-D resistances would be something like Low 2-C, so... am quite unsure about that.

 

[Livinmeme]

It's not even resistance, really. It's like someone not being able to be effected by soul manipulation because their soul is in a jar somewhere, for example.

well is the resistence if is not 4D he understand and no they are totally diferents so the example has not sense

 

[Chariot190]

Given how vague the profile is on it with absolutely zero specifics on it, only stating some dude failed to copy a power from him. Could go either way really.

Literally modified a Das Boot and gave it JoJi so he didnt explode instantly (As the previous Das Boot he gave Joji caused him to explode into a spray of blood). He has power modification, pretty sure a CRT was made for that accepted a few months back.

I did explain why, now whether or not you agree isnt my concern, really dont care. But given stilling is just manipulating wavelengths, really doesnt seem like something that is out of the realm of Kars' ability to simply understand it and modify his own powers' wavelengths to get around it or spontaneously develop new powers/Stands with different wavelengths at a whim. Or straight up learning how to manipulate said wavelengths himself, really isnt a case of mimicry, just him learning how to do so as well.

 

[Livinmeme]

Given how vague the profile is on it with absolutely zero specifics on it, only stating some dude failed to copy a power from him. Could go either way really.
Literally modified a Das Boot and gave it JoJi so he didnt explode instantly. He has power modification, pretty sure a CRT was made for that accepted a few months back.

I did explain why, now whether or not you agree isnt my concern, really dont care. But given stilling is just manipulating wavelengths, really doesnt seem like something that is out of the realm of Kars' ability to simply understand it and modify his own powers' wavelengths to get around it or spontaneously develop new powers/Stands with different wavelengths at a whim. Or straight up learning how to manipulate said wavelengths himself, really isnt a case of mimicry, just him learning how to do soas well.

depending the waves are 4D? scion has HAX 4D?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

So, you would make even more assumptions that they were limited instead of it simply being a resistance because...?

But that would be Power Modification and Power Bestowal, of his own power no less, which in no way was done to get around someone else's powers.

My concern is you saying he just does things with no evident examples of this being the case, and the fact it can just be ignored if not. I am not sure how manipulating a wavelength is gonna make it stop being a wavelength at all. He would need actual feats of this, like altering some fire manip of his to make it immune to someone else manipulating it as well. And that's exactly what power mimicry is, giving you abilities you don't have and the capacity to use them. It'd be one thing if Kars just copied someone's ability to manipulate fire by using powers or abilities he already has to replicate a similar effect, is another if he is actually changing the functionality of his body to do more or less the same thing. That's power mimicry, that Scion resists.

And yes indeed, you can't just say he can totally do that. You need examples of similar stuff happening to show there's precedent.

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

So like can scion surivive being erased from existence or not

 

[Chariot190]

Isnt an assumption, the profile just lacks details on the specifics, take it up with that, not me. I guess you could say that given what I know, I dont find it unbelievable that someone failed to copy the powers of the god tier of the verse, opposed to said god tier having an innate **** you to mimicry, could be wrong of course, and not even really a thing I was arguing, I'm fine with it for the sake of debate, I am though going to vioce my concern that the profile should be a tad more specific on the context of it.

Uh, because he only has to do it to his own powers to get around it? This isnt really difficult to understand. Not withstanding Scion kinda has to even know the wavelength of a Stand to neg it in the first place, but ignoring that, all Kars has to do is change the wavelength, really isnt a difficult concept to grasp and definitely not anything out of Kars' ability.

Your concern is unfounded, in fact all I really see is you saying I'm simply saying that's the case without explaining why, yet I did that like what? Two months ago? What, you want me to repeat myself again? Fill the thread up with repetitive information? I've been trying to stop doing that, if you want a refresher go back and read I guess. Either way, to put simply, Scion's stilling is well within Kars ability to circumvent as Scion's still relies on negating a power's wavelength, ignoring that Kars' Stand's, assuming they even have a wavelength to still, Scion would 1. Have to know what said wavelenghth is. 2. The Stands would have to have a wavelength to negate in the firstplace. Then factor in Kars' ability to alter his Stands, develop Stands spontaneously at a whim to suit his needs, nothing is actually preventing Kars from just modifying his own abilities' wavelengths or developing Stands with a different wavelength or even resistances to stilling. And Kars' mimicry actually contradicts your definition of power mimicry slightly, it's more of a power replication then power copying.

Idk dude, pretty sure I explained why he could get around stilling, you may not agree, but as said, I really don't care if you agree or not. Unless you mean copying stilling? Well given he's estabished to be able to replicate essentially any power that existed within JoJo at the time (at least going by the hype given by JoJi, Funny Valentine, and NASA), kinda his whole sctick actually, gonna say an obtuse form of power negation is within the realm of his ability to adapt, actually pretty sure things effectively similiar did exist at the time.

Dont know why you wanna make this into a long winded debate though, I only have a few hours of free time, if you want to heavily debate this then make it quick.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I am taking it with you, as you are saying that would have been a limitation of the dudes trying to copy. That's your assumption. Things being "vague" doesn't make you adding things not mentioned anywhere any less of an assumption.

He really doesn't, you are suddenly assuming again. He just affects things with stilling, and if those have wavelengths, they get negated. It never failed to work against any powers he used it on. And it is out of his ability unless you have any proof of him circumventing abilities doing something similar.

No, now you are just getting confused. You explained perfectly, I just asked for you to prove this would be the case or that Kars has done anything of the sort. Even "ghosts" drawn by Glaisting's power have wavelengths, or the Siberian projection made by Manton. Not sure why we would assume Stands don't have wavelengths. "Replication: The action of copying or reproducing something", why using a synonym makes this any different?

My agreement has nothing to do with your lack of ability to fundamentally prove anything of what you are saying, is as simple as that. And you still don't really bring a counter against his resistance, you are just saying it is totally not the same as power mimicry so it doesn't get affected by the resistance.

I am not debating, I am putting into doubt your statements backed by nothing. You have so far failed to provide at all.

 

[Chariot190]

Fine by me, guess I'm just going to call bullshit on then.

> Stilling: Scion's primary power, a golden light that he can use to cancel out any wavelength and that can be used both offensively and defensively. This ability can counteract and manipulate all sorts of energy, and can thus be used to cancel out heat and sound, disintegrate molecular bonds, slow and stop motion on a molecular scale, and disturb electronics. Scion can use it in the form of beams, orbs, bursts of energy, forcefields, and with a touch.

Because I'm reading that and last I checked Stands dont have wavelengths, they just kinda exist seperate from everything else, even ghosts. And really? Using the well it never failed on anything so it'd work here card? In the same vain I can say the same in that Kars has never failed to adapt to anything so clearly he can adapt here. You realize how bullshit that sounds right? That's a NLF beyond even assuming Kars could work around stilling, given I didnt even deny stilling would work, I even said it would work, just not permanently. Although reading that, there's a bit of a keyword there, in that, he uses a golden light to still or via various alternate mtheods, as in it's a manual thing he himself must actively do, ie, what's stopping Kars from understanding before he gets the chance, realize oh shit that's bad then just apply MIH on himself amping his speed a few trillion times over, giving him the ability to simply react and get his powers and attacks out before Scion has a chance to still in the first place? Or simply going back in time, given Scion cant counter that going by his profile and resistances or using D4CU to simply piss off to a different universe right away and have dupes take on Scion, as this key of Scion lacks the multiversal range and thus, Kars is completely safe while utilzing D4CU.

If I explained perfectly then what's so difficult to understand? That sounds like a personal issue to me rather than an actual issue with my points. Prove Kars has done what exactly? Modify powers? Spontaneously develop new powers? Adapt to things? Like what exactly are you asking that isnt clearly outlined on the profile so I'm simply not wasting my time here. Everything I've said comes from his feats, showings, hype or things that he should be capable of doing in theory based on his estabished feats and showings and or hype/statements/etc. Actually gleaming over the past four posts, literally all you'e said is prove Kars can do it, prove Kars can do what? Get around stilling? The explanation is the evidence I even pointed out an example or two where he's shown the capability to modify things and shit's done in the novel.

>Not sure why we would assume Stands don't have wavelengths.

Isnt assuming Stands have wavelengths an assumption as well, sounds a tad hypocritical to me mate ƒñö. Wouldnt we just treat the things he's shown the ability to negate as powers he's capable of negating rather than assuming he can negate a power system he's never interacted with. I mean we aint even assuming Kars can copy powers he's never shown the ability to copy, only replicate powers that exist or are functionally or mechanically similiar within the jojo franchise via his own means.

You keep saying prove what I'm saying, unfortunately I dont think that's the issue, I think the issue is just your ignorance on the subject matter given I have not a damn clue what exactly needs proving in my claims given it all seems to be pretty basic Kars shit based on things he has done or can do, no offense, of course I'm not going to claim I'm any better when it comes to Scion, because I aint, I dont know much about him, literally just going off the profile and my doubt on his resistance mostly comes from the lack of the character he resists not even having a profile or a linked example to judge from. Regardless, I have no idea what you even want me to prove given unless you mean prove Kars can adapt? Well that one is easy, it's not even something I have to prove, it's something you have to prove, given stilling negates abilities, powers, and forms of energy but not someone's innate biology, which is what Kars' adaption is, it isnt a supernatural power as odd as that may sound.


Also why are we acting like Scion's stilling is some passive thing? It isnt, not only that it can be avoided, pretty easy going by the description of it, and if it's wrong, that's an issue with the profile, not my judgement on the matter. Also kinda ignores Kars can easily pick up on Scion's weaknesses, the danger of stilling and much more at a glance.

 

[Chariot190]

Actually why are you treating Stilling some instant, unavoidable, passive ability, that should be the first thing that gets sorted out here.

The second thing being why you think Understanding is a power when really it's just Kars' intelligence.

Edit: Actually maybe I misunderstood what you were asking, do you mean why we're assuming Kars can adapt new Stands or modify his Stands? The reason for that is because stilling only prevents Kars from using the powers he already has, what it doesnt do though is prevent Kars from spontaneously adapting new upgraded versions of Stands to combat the power, that isnt even a power, at least not till the Stand is manifested, then it's subject to stilling, but if he manifested a new Stand with the sole intent to get around it, I dont see stilling being an issue, not withstanding it's avoidability to begin with. Which is something Kars has done, he has spontaneously manifested brand new Stands, instantly, by simply thinking it, stilling should by no means prevent Kars from doing that, especially given he aint even mimicing anything.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Wavelenghts is a general thing that seems to exist for Worm, no matter how esoteric the thing, so it would be much simpler to assume it does for Stands as well, just as we assume living things have souls unless proved or stated otherwise. This includes powers as esoteric as Siberian, a projection that ignores the laws of physics at it's leisure or even time itself. And that's not a NLF, you said he would need to know a Wavelength, and I said this was never ever even said, implied or shown to be the case. No matter the power and property stilling works, so why would we assume he needs to know the wavelength? If we assumed this with no basis, as you have, it would mean he can just know it with no problem as he never has the issue of not knowing the wavelength or something. You, conversely, have stated Kars can totally do something without any precedents just because he altered his power to make sure Joji didn't die from it. My statement has precedent from a pretty extensive battle against Scion, yours is a supposition based on 1, Kars being able to change said wavelength. I 2, Scion needing to know the wavelength. The actual NLF is stating the second just because he can modify his powers, and the leap in logic of saying he could, when the state of the modification was toning it down to not kill Joji.

Not sure what part of his profile are you reading. His P&A says pretty clearly he can teleport to alternate Earths aside from attacking from them. Though his interdimensional travel should indeed be added on range, I'll see if I can get that fixed later. But yeah, that plus Path of Victory means he isn't safe at all.

Read above. Assuming they have or haven't is an assumption either way, but as something that more or less near anything, if not just outright anything, in Worm seems to have, from esoteric powers to the properties of the universe itself, it seems more likely than not to think they do have it. And by that assumption, power nullification would be effectively worthless. It could only affect the most generally similar of power systems. Magic across a lot of fiction doesn't even work similar at all despite being called magic.

Replicating would still assume he's copying the power. You can do some sort of CRT if you want, but you ain't just circumventing a resistance by using a change of word.

Indeed, because you have still proven nothing. My "ignorance" has next to nothing to do or be the cause of your inability to prove what you are presenting forth. Surprisingly, the fact that you think is right doesn't mean it is right, or mean I am effectively just lacking knowledge by disagreeing with you and finding your lack of proof to make this more or less impossible. I also don't remember mentioning anything about his adapting, just that you are circumventing a resistance using suppositions supported by absolutely nothing and assumptions about how Kars could use things like his power modification in this or that way. Is also... incredibly odd to claim something not supernatural when it does things entirely out of the realm of the natural, like replicating supernatural abilities.

Intelligence doesn't let you replicate outright supernatural abiltiies like Stands. I guess we just disagree how we treat Kars.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Oh wait, does Stilling to undue molecular bounds get past Mid-High?

Am pretty sure it doesn't, so he can't kill Kars anyway.

 

[Livinmeme]

what kars you can uderstand stilling i mean if stilling is not 4D

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

He can't get past resistance to his powers getting copied, so not really.

 

[Livinmeme]

oof what scion even has a incon

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Thing is, Scion can't really kill Kars now that I think about it, so can't even be an Incon.

 

[Livinmeme]

Thing is, Scion can't really kill Kars now that I think about it, so can't even be an Incon.

Well question why last key of scion stomp kars i dont see any hax with suffent pottency to kill him

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Oh wait, does Stilling to undue molecular bounds get past Mid-High?

Am pretty sure it doesn't, so he can't kill Kars anyway.

Only if Stilling does it to all your molecules.

 

[Livinmeme]

Oh wait, does Stilling to undue molecular bounds get past Mid-High?

Am pretty sure it doesn't, so he can't kill Kars anyway.

Only if Stilling does it to all your molecules.

idk kars can understand plus D4C Says hi

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Because he has every power in the entirety of Worm, among those mind manip in the trillions of trillions, outright not letting you perceive or remember he's there, or many powers with complete matter disintegration, along with a million other things I don't even remember.

 

[Livinmeme]

Because he has every power in the entirety of Worm, among those mind manip in the trillions of trillions, outright not letting you perceive or remember he's there, or many powers with complete matter disintegration, along with a million other things I don't even remember.

god because the resistence of kars mindhax are infinite x7

 

[Livinmeme]

Because he has every power in the entirety of Worm, among those mind manip in the trillions of trillions, outright not letting you perceive or remember he's there, or many powers with complete matter disintegration, along with a million other things I don't even remember.

plus not even matter he has infinite hax if they are not Higer dimensional Hax he eventually understand

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Nah, his resistance is not infinite plus 7. Not sure where you pulled that from.

Understanding doesn't matter when he can't perceive Scion, and his entire body is disintegrated. "Infinite hax" is not a thing.

 

[Livinmeme]

Nah, his resistance is not infinite plus 7. Not sure where you pulled that from.
Understanding doesn't matter when he can't perceive Scion, and his entire body is disintegrated. "Infinite hax" is not a thing.

i mean he has infinite disc and multiplied by 7

 

[Livinmeme]

every kars has infinites disc and he get every disc of every kars

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

"Countless" is not "infinite".

 

[Livinmeme]

no is infinite

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Its not

 

[Livinmeme]

okay i gona explain this every kars had infinite sould or disc and he absorbed every kars who are 36 and his own infinite disc and that is the reason why he technically can had infinite stands x37

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Too many to count is not infinite. Unless you think "she apologized countless times" means she apologized infinite times. Is a word very commonly used.

 

[Livinmeme]

white snake hit kars and infinite times and kars whas even procupated

 

[Livinmeme]

Too many to count is not infinite. Unless you think "she apologized countless times" means she apologized infinite times. Is a word very commonly used.

what no the point is that every kars has infinite souls or disc

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

He didn't have infinite soul discs. Even his profile says he had "countless" soul discs, which is not infinite. Either you have proof, or this is not a thing.

Wasn't it x7? Now you are just changing numbers around.

 

[Livinmeme]

I did not put 7 because I did not remember the exact number and the profile is quite outdated

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I have seen a single person saying his profile is outdated. Also, if you didn't remember, not claiming a number would have been much better.

Countless is still not infinite. Hundreds of people can be too many to count for a single person, the literal definition of countless.

 

[Livinmeme]

I have seen a single person saying his profile is outdated. Also, if you didn't remember, not claiming a number would have been much better.
Countless is still not infinite. Hundreds of people can be too many to count for a single person, the literal definition of countless.

now you are downgraded several people had saying that the profile is outdated even is doing a CTR

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I am not downgrading anything. I am using basic english. Basic english tells you countless doesn't translate into infinite. and we always go for the safer lowballed number.

They are doing a CRT? You could link said CRT if that's true.