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yeah, with assumptions.
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Scaling Boros to Orochi
- Thread starter NikHelton
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*she
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Oh. Really sorry, I'll edit my post accordingly.
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I agree with Mav.
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I guess the agree/disagree matters but most of the points are falling apart so…
GodlyCharmander
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The worst part of this, is that I agree with the general idea that Saitama's words aren't good measuring rules.
But Rusty, sorry, WHY are you making countless claims you effectively cannot prove? No, no, claims that are IMPOSSIBLE to prove, actually.
You do realize your personal interpretation has no bearings in this CRT, right?
"Why can Saitama casually one shot Boros?"
"BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY HE CAN'T"
That's not valid, and will never be. Yeah, might be "obvious" in a narrative sense, but ******* lord does it not have any evidence behind it...
I disagree with basically everything you said, I can say, "Well, you're wrong, you're misinterpreting the fight", and I will have the same amount of "evidence" you have for these points.
I still agree with the downgrade regardless
GodlyCharmander
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WHY?
Why the baseless claims EVERYWHERE?
God damn it, bro. This is such a specific, unique interpretation, that it OBVIOUSLY would need to be backed up by evidence.
You know what's worse?
One cannot prove Saitama was referring to the moon kick when he said "Almost a real fight".
Because Saitama.
Saitama could be, and might as well be, referring to this chain of events, not just the final kick, that'd be stupid.
GodlyCharmander
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Disregard "getting smacked around", I confounded Anime and Manga, the Manga just shows a few attacks before the kick
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May bad, I didn't mean to offend you.
I truly hope I haven't caused any issues with between us, since that wasn't my intention in the slightest. If I made a mistake I appreciate people who can point it out for me.
So I appreciate your honest response to me, and I'm truly sorry for what I wrote down and I'm thoroughly ashamed of myself. I didn't mean any disrespect.
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GodlyCharmander
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That's a wholesome response to my rather harsh disagreement.
Don't let my tone fool you, I was not bothered or... "offended" over a disagreement. I am sorry if I led you to believe that. I am also sorry for stressing and worrying you, we agree on this the downgrade, and that's what matters.
Furthermore, I only disagreed with how you worded your points, since it's seems more "personal interpretation". And it's not a bad one, obviously, I just wanted a some evidence to the claims made.
I am sorry, once again. Your rather careful and sweet response about how you "may have insulted/offended" me was truly shocking. Do not be ashamed of yourself for expressing your opinion or point, please. I will try to be more careful with my behavior from now on.
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But in all seriousness, I personally have a way of speaking or reacting to things that are not acceptable. So I'm really trying to move past that part of myself and become better. I won't deny that first reading your post made me angry and want to snap back, but I knew that was childish and I needed to accept my faults.
It's easy to just accept how I initially felt without giving your response any thought. But I know that wouldn't be fair to you when you're just expressing your feelings. Taking a step back, while I still feel as if Saitama could easily and effortlessly defeat Boros in a similar manner as he did Orochi.
I do understand that there is no true evidence for it, and that is personal interpretation that didn't have much to do with this thread. Regardless of the narrative of the manga. So I do appreciate you pointing that out, I much prefer that than continuing to rely on such a "argument", when most people don't want to say Saitama would struggle/lose, or not be capable of defeating someone casually.
So in the same term, I have no hard feeling over your response. And I just glad to know there will be no issues between any users here. As that is something I wish to avoid.
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So can the changes be made? I can be the on to do it
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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GodlyCharmander
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I also need to work on myself so I won't let my own emotions get to me. Because, at the end of the day, it's... literally just a fictional property.
I will do better, and Rusty's attitude really influenced that.
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Here's something we haven't thought of, a quote from Lord.DRable
"Hello!! I would like to hear your opinion about Boros, his ship and Tatsumaki.
I particularly believe that Boros (and I believe that Garou too) even in his "Released" form is superior to Orochi, Psykos-Orochi and Tatsumaki, more precisely because of the way the manga's narrative implies this idea. But when reading the chapters of the Alien Invasion Arc, I realized something and I believe it can be very interesting to support this proposal.
We know that Tatsumaki was able to damage the Boros Spaceship when she redirected the bombing and when she utilized city debris. And we also know that Tatsumaki was doing all this damage in order to bring down the Ship.
And Boros was also doing severe damage to his own ship while fighting Saitama. But the most interesting thing of all is that a single attack by Boros in his "Released" form was able to do more damage than Tatsumaki's telekinetic attacks, shaking not only his own ship as a side effect, but the surface as well. which Tatsumaki was not able to replicate (she was only able to shake the ship with her attacks once when she redirected the bombardment). To further support this proposal of mine, on another page, we can see the difference in destruction that the Boros attack caused to the ship compared to the S-Class Heroine attacks. Tornado also showed a surprised expression after Boros' destructive attack.
What do I mean by all this? That Boros in his Released form (hence the MB as well) is superior to Tatsumaki by a good margin, as he is able to do more damage to his own ship than the paranormal. And I don't see a problem with scaling Boros above her, because as I've said, the narrative indirectly implies that Boros is actually the strongest.
Of course, Orochi and Psykos-Orochi may have superior feats than Boros... but I think we should continue to rely on the manga's narrative, not our math!"
Basically Tatsumaki is comparable to Psyko-Orochi, who is greater than Orochi, and Boros has shown feats above Tatsumaki that even surprised her.
Regardless, we have a much more realistic calc that puts Boros' ship at 7 Exatons of tnt by EnderLord8. who doesn't use a minus 23% for the mass of the ship. Here's the link.
The weaker ship calcs assume that 23% of the ships mass is gone because Geryuganshoop tells Boros 23% of the ship is destroyed, but all that damaged is inside the ship, so its mass would actually be the same.
"Hello!! I would like to hear your opinion about Boros, his ship and Tatsumaki.
I particularly believe that Boros (and I believe that Garou too) even in his "Released" form is superior to Orochi, Psykos-Orochi and Tatsumaki, more precisely because of the way the manga's narrative implies this idea. But when reading the chapters of the Alien Invasion Arc, I realized something and I believe it can be very interesting to support this proposal.
We know that Tatsumaki was able to damage the Boros Spaceship when she redirected the bombing and when she utilized city debris. And we also know that Tatsumaki was doing all this damage in order to bring down the Ship.
And Boros was also doing severe damage to his own ship while fighting Saitama. But the most interesting thing of all is that a single attack by Boros in his "Released" form was able to do more damage than Tatsumaki's telekinetic attacks, shaking not only his own ship as a side effect, but the surface as well. which Tatsumaki was not able to replicate (she was only able to shake the ship with her attacks once when she redirected the bombardment). To further support this proposal of mine, on another page, we can see the difference in destruction that the Boros attack caused to the ship compared to the S-Class Heroine attacks. Tornado also showed a surprised expression after Boros' destructive attack.
What do I mean by all this? That Boros in his Released form (hence the MB as well) is superior to Tatsumaki by a good margin, as he is able to do more damage to his own ship than the paranormal. And I don't see a problem with scaling Boros above her, because as I've said, the narrative indirectly implies that Boros is actually the strongest.
Of course, Orochi and Psykos-Orochi may have superior feats than Boros... but I think we should continue to rely on the manga's narrative, not our math!"
Basically Tatsumaki is comparable to Psyko-Orochi, who is greater than Orochi, and Boros has shown feats above Tatsumaki that even surprised her.
Regardless, we have a much more realistic calc that puts Boros' ship at 7 Exatons of tnt by EnderLord8. who doesn't use a minus 23% for the mass of the ship. Here's the link.
The weaker ship calcs assume that 23% of the ships mass is gone because Geryuganshoop tells Boros 23% of the ship is destroyed, but all that damaged is inside the ship, so its mass would actually be the same.
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We still need claims to be made, in which people agreeing with the downgrades don’t have factual evidence.
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Tatsumaki didn’t never went all out in the Alien Conquerors Arc so that’s not really legitimate scaling either. If that 7 Exaton Giant Spaceship calc gets accepted we can obviously use that, but for now we’ll have to use this one.
Sure, we have more than enough staff agreement.
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Summary on the points made plz.
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Maybe I'm not seeing it right, but Tatsumaki looks a little shocked once Boros unleashes his blast attack then again, I could just be mistaking.
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Surprised by the abrupt explosion it seems. She was also taken aback by Psykos’ God Blast.
Also you message a calc group member to speed up the evaluation of the recent ship recalc.
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will do then, thanks!
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So… is this being applied? Boros’ page has been unlocked for a while now.
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Emirp plans to apply them
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so um what points were made...that aren't headcanon.
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biased or not the points made have to be factual, everything so far has been headcanon. the only factual thing is that character a sees character B>character C.
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Proclaiming your arguments are “factual” while calling your opposition’s arguments “headcanon” doesn’t contribute much to the debate.
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What wasn't factual? Most points on the agreeing side gave points that were provided by the manga and/or gave interpretation that could easily be backed up from the manga.
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it doesn't bc everyone went ghost when i was asking for the arguments made for the downgrade
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godlycharmander who supports the downgrade essentially disproved every point that was made for the downgrade. so we're back to the start.
GodlyCharmander
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Because none of the sides are "factual", mag.
We are debating interpretation and reasonable conclusions based on the same fact.
In this case, the downgrade interpretation seems more reasonable to the most amount of people because obviously Saitama's words are not reliable.
I still don't agree with a lot of what's been argued, such as:
"Saitama wouldn't be surprised with another Boros level opponent"
Because that'd mean Orochi can't be far stronger than Boros, thus, still allowing for the scaling.
"The Almost Real Fight line means XYZ"
Really unsupported and specific interpretations for this line. Saitama said that after being genuinely surprised by Boros' speed, and taking a "beating".
Obviously it's still not a reliable quote because of what Saitama says afterwards about never having fun in a fight, but trying to twist the blantant meaning of the quote is not the way.
We are debating interpretation and reasonable conclusions based on the same fact.
In this case, the downgrade interpretation seems more reasonable to the most amount of people because obviously Saitama's words are not reliable.
I still don't agree with a lot of what's been argued, such as:
"Saitama wouldn't be surprised with another Boros level opponent"
Because that'd mean Orochi can't be far stronger than Boros, thus, still allowing for the scaling.
"The Almost Real Fight line means XYZ"
Really unsupported and specific interpretations for this line. Saitama said that after being genuinely surprised by Boros' speed, and taking a "beating".
Obviously it's still not a reliable quote because of what Saitama says afterwards about never having fun in a fight, but trying to twist the blantant meaning of the quote is not the way.
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his words are very reliable when he's searching for a fight, boros brings something to the table, searches for the monster king in hopes of a fight, and orochi brings nothing to the table. there are no other claims to be made. I keep saying the same argument over and over and truly i would also be sick of it in ur position but nothing can disprove it. theres no other way to twist these words around, simply one character is fodder than the other. like theres just nothing else on either side. this is not an opinion this is just out and about info layed out.
GodlyCharmander
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His words are somewhat reliable in any other scenario.
Not in this one. Saitama contradicted his statement later in the next arc by stating he never had fun, or even came close to having an actual fight in his monologue with King.
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thats still not a contradiction as he gave respect to an opponent he could've treated the same exact way he treated orochi. there would be no need for any of the monologue to occur with ur logic. but it did occur and saitama still saw boros as relevant.
edit: also slightly derailing but what was the argument with the disaster levels again...
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So two recalcs have been accepted for Boros' ship dura. Which do we use? Could ArmorChompy or TheRustyOne help out here?
vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com
Saitama's impact on Lord Boros' Ship (Redone)
vsbattles.fandom.com
Boros ship impact energy recalculation
vsbattles.fandom.com
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This one makes most sense.Boros ship impact energy recalculation
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