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Sans vs Riolu (0-0-0)

Ok sans TK wont work cause of Riolu's higher LS. Riolu can read minds, can use precognition, and can use Analytical Prediction with Detect. Riolu can also use Copycat to copy the last move used by the opponent so sans is kind of screwed if Riolu uses this move. To get past sans first attack, Riolu can make a forcefield with Quick Guard or use Endure which allows the user to survive any attack that would cause it to faint, leaving the user with 1 HP instead.
 
koopa3144 said:
Why would it not? Attacks in undertale bring down your HP, Endure prevents attacks in pokemon from making your HP go below one. So it should still work due to verse equalization.
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Attacks in undertale go to the soul. If Endure only shown to work with body attacks then it wont work in this case
 
ShionAH said:
Attacks in undertale go to the soul. If Endure only shown to work with body attacks then it wont work in this case
Click to expand...
I'm like 60% sure there is a Pokemon whose attacks hurt souls but until I find that Pokemon I'll drop my argument for Endure. But even without Endure, Riolu can still use Quick Guard to block sans attacks or use Detect and precognition to dodge.
 
koopa3144 said:
I'm like 60% sure there is a Pokemon whose attacks hurt souls but until I find that Pokemon I'll drop my argument for Endure. But even without Endure, Riolu can still use Quick Guard to block sans attacks or use Detect and precognition to dodge.
Click to expand...
Luckily for you, I've been studying Pokedex entries to find out which is the least intelligent Legendary so as to determine Pokemon candidates for the Most Unintelligent Characters for Every Tier thread!
Heck, just in general I read a lot of Pokedex entries.

For what its worth, though, there are no Ghost-type Baby Pokemon, & Baby Pokemon are most of what Riolu scales to. I forget if Aura works on ghosts, but at least some types of it might.

Spectrier is a Legendary Pokemon that can affect the soul with its attacks:
SwordIt probes its surroundings with all its senses save one—it doesn’t use its sense of sight. Spectrier’s kicks are said to separate soul from body.

Cursola, evolved from Galarian Corsola is a fully evolved 2nd stage Pokemon:
SwordIts shell is overflowing with its heightened otherworldly energy. The ectoplasm serves as protection for this Pokémon’s core spirit.
ShieldBe cautious of the ectoplasmic body surrounding its soul. You’ll become stiff as stone if you touch it.

Bramblin is a 1st stage Pokemon:
ScarletA soul unable to move on to the afterlife was blown around by the wind until it got tangled up with dried grass and became a Pokémon.

Chandelure is a fully evolved 3-stage Pokemon:
WhiteBeing consumed in Chandelure’s flame burns up the spirit, leaving the body behind.

Spiritomb is a single stage Pokemon:
SwordExactly 108 spirits gathered to become this Pokémon. Apparently there are some ill-natured spirits in the mix.
Shining PearlIt was bound to a fissure in an odd keystone as punishment for misdeeds 500 years ago.

Red Flower Florges is a form of Florges, a fully evolved 3-stage Pokemon:
VioletThey say that flower gardens created by Florges are constantly showered with a power that can heal both body and spirit.
This entry of Florges's, however, could be euphemistic, however, &/or refer to emotions &/or mental health rather than spirituality, however.


There might be others I haven't considered. Plus there's stuff like some Ghost-types, such as Honedge, being stated to drain "life force" or "life energy" or such, but that may be separate stuff.
Hopefully this helps reach a conclusion.

Also, caution that I'm not sure if all of these have profiles on VSBW yet.
 
koopa3144 said:
That's not what the point was. Superman had a higher LS and because of that he wouldn't be affected by sans TK, Riolu has a higher LS and because of that it wouldn't be affected by sans TK.
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imagine if someone really strongh is tied to a ballon, this guy can pull trucks but the ballon can't

the guy would be unable to move from the ballon lifting him sinse he has no place to apply his LS to get out of the ballon

Superman can apply his LS to scape the TK sinse he can apply on him self while flying

Riolu would be in the same situation as the ballon guy
 
To my knowledge, a TK/gravity manip user cant affect someone with a higher LS. For example, Darth Vader would be able to use his TK on someone with a higher LS like Raiden as seen in this thread.
 
koopa3144 said:
To my knowledge, a TK/gravity manip user cant affect someone with a higher LS. For example, Darth Vader would be able to use his TK on someone with a higher LS like Raiden as seen in this thread.
Click to expand...
nah, beacuse this is fighting against their height, not their LS

with higher LS they may be able to move their arms and legs if the TK user try to imobileze them, but their LS will not make them able to defie gravity and just go back to the ground
 
JustANormalLemon said:
nah, beacuse this is fighting against their height, not their LS

with higher LS they may be able to move their arms and legs if the TK user try to imobileze them, but their LS will not make them able to defie gravity and just go back to the ground
Click to expand...
Look, let me put it this way. Sans can apply 117338.92085 Newtons of force on Riolu with his TK/gravity mainp while Riolu LS somewhere between 981000-9810000 Newtons. That's at least a 863661.07915 difference. So, Riolu wont be affected by sans's TK due to the amount of force that sans can apply with his TK/gravity mainp LS not being comparable enough to the Riolu to keep it from moving.
 
koopa3144 said:
Look, let me put it this way. Sans can apply 117338.92085 Newtons of force on Riolu with his TK/gravity mainp while Riolu LS somewhere between 981000-9810000 Newtons. That's at least a 863661.07915 difference. So, Riolu wont be affected by sans's TK due to the amount of force that sans can apply with his TK/gravity mainp LS not being comparable enough to the Riolu to keep it from moving.
Click to expand...
again, riolu needs a place to apply this LS

If he is in the air for exemple the only LS he can apply to move inhis weight, I don't get what is dificult to understand
 
Even with the TK I still see Riolu taking this more often than not. It has multiple ways of getting past sans's first attack like using Quick Guard to block it, Detect to precog/analytically predict it, or just taking it with Endure. It can also hit sans before he even uses his first attack by using Quick Attack, a move that always hits the opponent first even if the opponent is faster.
 
ShionAH said:
Game mechanics. Theres no way thats not game mechanics. Thats like me saying sans always starts first
Click to expand...
Semi-game mechanics.
It's a tremendous speed boost though capable of effectively blitzing those who are otherwise faster than it, n the anime, manga, etc it's been even shown as the pokemon in question DBZ teleporting type shit (Or a blur).
The game reflects that by making it +1 Priority. There's other moves like that, and moves with even more Priority, but for the sake of a speed equal match, Quick Attack may as well always go first due to how big a speed boost it is for that specific attack.
 
Chariot190 said:
Semi-game mechanics.
It's a tremendous speed boost though capable of effectively blitzing those who are otherwise faster than it, n the anime, manga, etc it's been even shown as the pokemon in question DBZ teleporting type shit (Or a blur).
The game reflects that by making it +1 Priority. There's other moves like that, and moves with even more Priority, but for the sake of a speed equal match, Quick Attack may as well always go first due to how big a speed boost it is for that specific attack.
Click to expand...
Hmm if its a blitz type of attack I am afraid sans cannot really win
 
In-Game description, which I'm assuming we're using the game canon or whatever, says the attack makes the Pokemon in question go so fast it's almost invisible, and the most game literally has the Pokemon move so fast it vanishes, and then the foe is struck by an "invisible force".
So yeah, it's like the definition of a "blitz attack".
bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Quick Attack (move)

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net
More info can be found here.
 
Riolu also has Vacuum Wave, which also has +1 Priority but not in the sense of a blitz. Description has it so the move is effectively Riolu throwing a punching, generating a vacuum, that strikes the foe from a distance, even through obstacles if you use PMD which i think we dont
Basically think DBZ kiai punch.

There is one thing of note though, while Riolu definitely has ways to win, we have to ask, what would Riolu do first? Riolu has 16 moves it can learn naturally, ironically, quick attack and endure are the literal first two moves, but if Riolu tries to use Force Palm, Screech, rock Smash, etc, they won't do much and will probably give Sans the runaway he needs to win.
How this match goes depends on what Riolu does (given Sans always does the same shit), or how fast Riolu can react to the funny beam and magics to try and get off a blitz.
 
Chariot190 said:
Riolu also has Vacuum Wave, which also has +1 Priority but not in the sense of a blitz. Description has it so the move is effectively Riolu throwing a punching, generating a vacuum, that strikes the foe from a distance, even through obstacles if you use PMD which i think we dont
Basically think DBZ kiai punch.

There is one thing of note though, while Riolu definitely has ways to win, we have to ask, what would Riolu do first? Riolu has 16 moves it can learn naturally, ironically, quick attack and endure are the literal first two moves, but if Riolu tries to use Force Palm, Screech, rock Smash, etc, they won't do much and will probably give Sans the runaway he needs to win.
How this match goes depends on what Riolu does (given Sans always does the same shit), or how fast Riolu can react to the funny beam and magics to try and get off a blitz.
Click to expand...
Since both of them come from turn based verses is that gonna how the fight will work?
 
ShionAH said:
Since both of them come from turn based verses is that gonna how the fight will work?
Click to expand...
Nah, Pokemon's turn based mechanics are but an abstraction and not literally how it works "in canon", the turns in Pokemon are decided by the Pokemon's speed stat (Or priority moves, abilities, trick room (which inverts speed), etc), think of Pokemon's turn based shit as just an approximation of an actual fight where who gets to attack and what not being decided by speed as it does in most things.
This can be evidenced by the anime, manga, etc by turns literally just not existing, and instead being a normal fight where Pokemon attack based on speed, react to attacks to dodge, and trainers give commands in response to what's happening.

Meaning just treat it the same way all of Sans fights go with non-turn based *************, they're both doing shit at the same time and are only held back by how fast they can react to what's happening and whip out their moves.

I could probably grab a fight scene of wild pokemon going at it, or two trainers fighting to show what I mean if need be.
 
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