Darth Vader (Star Wars) vs Raiden (Metal Gear Solid)

[Colonel_Krukov]

*Standard battle assumptions
*Post Mustafar Vader vs Metal Gear Rising Raiden

Darth Vader: 0 ()

Raiden: 7 (DaReaperMan,XSOULOFCINDERX,Reploidnoridomix,CBslayeR,Random-Helper323,ZoroNotZolo,Kflare63)

Inconclusive: 1 (Stillwinston)

Vader is 491.07 Tons and Mach 2478.95, Raiden is 156.78 Tons and Mach 1658.7755. Vader is ~3.13x stronger and ~1.5x faster.

 

[Arceus0x]

Ok so the main question for this thread is
Do they run at each other when the sun comes up? With their lives on the line?
And most importantly, does this match follow SBA or the rules of the wild?

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

SBA applied

 

[CBslayeR]

So TK slams aren't an option here due to the LS difference, and Speed Amps are restricted since that'd make it a blitz for Raiden if that rule is still a thing. How hot are Lightsabers compared to Raiden's resistance? If it's hot enough to gore him its probably just a matter of who hits who first since they both bypass each others dura in that case.

 

[Abstractions]

Well, for starters, while I believe it may be possible for Vader to cut through Raiden and possibly the HF Blade with the added strength gap combined with the heat of a lightsaber, it should be noted that Raiden is resistant to heat for being able to withstand the plasma cannon on Metal Gear RAYs so this process isn't likely to be instant nor would it hinder Raiden much in clashes should he break away fast enough. The same cannot be said for Vader should the HF Blade make contact with him directly though.

Raiden's benefits include Blade Mode making him much faster than Vader, which when coupled with the HF Blade can make for a shorter fight unless Vader can anticipate this through Precognition and prevent Raiden from hitting him by lifting him through TK. Raiden also does have access to electricity which Vader is vulnerable to.

Vader's benefits include being naturally stronger and faster along with Precog, TK, Mind Tricks and use of barriers, but Raiden is notably resistant to heat so the extra work is required when it comes to victory with the lightsaber. Potential for disarming Raiden through TK is also limited because of the LS gap.

Not voting for now, will see how it goes.

So TK slams aren't an option here due to the LS difference, and Speed Amps are restricted since that'd make it a blitz for Raiden if that rule is still a thing.

Speed isn't equalized here and TK can still be used to lift the target, you simply can't win a pulling match with someone that is grounded though.

 

[Stillwinston]

Hmmmm, all the stuff said above is making me want to vote inconclusive here ngl. Vader has precog, TK, mind stuff to muck Raiden over but I assume force choke won't be of much use here. But Raiden has Blade Mode and electrical stuff and HF Blade which is gonna be nasty for Vader. Skill wise I guess they're both about even, from what I remember though Raiden tends to be more aggressive while Vader prefers general Form V tactics which is to defend then hit back harder.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Raiden is Class G and Vader is Class M so TK is worthless, Blade Mode is a bitch... yeah, issue here definitely is that Raiden can one-shot and Vader can't, Raiden FRA

 

[CBslayeR]

Vader might be able to oneshot though, it depends on how hot his light saber vs Raiden's resistance

 

[DaReaperMan]

Vader might be able to oneshot though, it depends on how hot his light saber vs Raiden's resistance

Generally, against shit that's thick and has good heat resistance, Lightsabers can't get through em instantly

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I think if we treat is as a plasma based weapon, which is fair to assume, at minimum that's a temperature of 11,000° Fahrenheit.. Don't know how good specifically Raiden's resistance is though.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I think if we treat is as a plasma based weapon, which is fair to assume, at minimum that's a temperature of 11,000° Fahrenheit.. Don't know how good specifically Raiden's resistance is though.

A fodder suit he had tanked plasma without real issue so... yeh

 

[Arcker123]

Yeah, this Raiden can tank Plasma beams from ray, so the heat isn’t going to be an issue.

 

[Abstractions]

Raiden is Class G and Vader is Class M so TK is worthless,

Remember, A TK user needs to only lift your mass for it to be useful, not the equivalent of what you can lift.

If Raiden is held in the air he wouldn't have leverage to kick off of or ground himself as he doesn't have flight as a response.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Remember, A TK user needs to only lift your mass for it to be useful, not the equivalent of what you can lift.

If Raiden is held in the air he wouldn't have leverage to kick off of or ground himself as he doesn't have flight as a response.

sigh you say that like Vader can magically restrain Raiden for 0 reason when he doesn't even have the LS required to do so

 

[Scottycj256]

Insert Dante "what the hell is this"

Raiden wins so badly its hilarious

 

[Jackpact]

sigh you say that like Vader can magically restrain Raiden for 0 reason when he doesn't even have the LS required to do so

I think he mean Vader could lift him and keep them there not hold as in crush or restrain, and Vader should be able to do that, Vader however can't restrain or disable Raiden weapon, tho he might be able to TK blast i think.

 

[Arcker123]

He can’t forcefully lift Raiden or some shit. Raiden can just exert force on the ground and the TK couldn’t overpower him.

 

[Jackpact]

Eh, don't know, lifting strength doesn't mean overall strength and force lift only care about how heavy Raiden is, if he could exert some force on par with his lifting strength while he's in the air then sure but i don't remember him being able to do anything without a foot hold.

 

[Abstractions]

sigh you say that like Vader can magically restrain Raiden for 0 reason when he doesn't even have the LS required to do so

I'm simply telling you how it works, it's not like Raiden can move if he's physically lifted off the ground. It doesn't have to entail constricting him.

He can’t forcefully lift Raiden or some shit. Raiden can just exert force on the ground and the TK couldn’t overpower him.

He can as Vader only needs to lift his mass, the moment he's off the ground he wouldn't have the leverage to push or pull themselves down. Are you able to directly pull yourself downwards when you're in midair?

 

[Jackpact]

But i don't know physic or how those 2 interact so you could just ask someone knowledgeable about LS to comment.

 

[Arcker123]

He can as Vader only needs to lift his mass

Raiden can exert more force in regards to lifting strength, TK lifting is a Form of LS, that’s the same TK pushes won’t work.

the moment he's off the ground he wouldn't have the leverage to push or pull themselves down. Are you able to directly pull yourself downwards when you're in midair?

He won’t be able to forcefully get him off the ground

 

[Abstractions]

Raiden can exert more force in regards to lifting strength, TK lifting is a Form of LS, that’s the same TK pushes won’t work.

I don't think you're grasping what I'm saying, unfortunately.

He won’t be able to forcefully get him off the ground

Simply not true, and I've said why.

 

[Smashtwig]

Raiden should be able to be TK'd. And in Metal Gear there isn't any magic system that would allow Raiden to pull himself back down. It's literally impossible to pull yourself down if someone is trying to lift you up, in fact, the only thing you can do is to struggle and make it difficult for them to get a good grip on you with their arms. However, TK is a different story, it doesn't really run into those same problems, the only thing you can do is hope that you're heavy enough so that they can't lift you, and Lifting Strength does not equal weight.

Unless Raiden has a way to stick himself to the ground like an anchor or something, he's likely getting lifted up

And Raiden is also primarily a close range guy, so Vader can kinda just toss him around until he dies, or hold him in mid air as Vader throws his lightsaber.

 

[Stillwinston]

On the topic of lightsabers and heat didn't Qui Gon struggle to get thru a door in episode 1 with his?

 

[DaReaperMan]

On the topic of lightsabers and heat didn't Qui Gon struggle to get thru a door in episode 1 with his?

That would be because it was extremely thick.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Bump

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Bump

 

[Torlikoff]

Hm. It seems pretty hard to be definite here, Vader TKing Raiden is basically instantly winning and he does love doing that, but Raiden potentially one shots otherwise which causes it to lean more towards him in most situations. Certainly isn't a stomp in either direction.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Raiden FRA.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Raiden is Class G and Vader is Class M so TK is worthless, Blade Mode is a bitch... yeah, issue here definitely is that Raiden can one-shot and Vader can't, Raiden FRA

I just realised you voted Raiden FRA, but he had no previous voters. Whoops

 

[CBslayeR]

I just wanna know how hot a lightsaber is vs Raiden's resistance

 

[Abstractions]

I just realised you voted Raiden FRA, but he had no previous voters. Whoops

He voted for Raiden for things I said even if I didn't vote, so technically saying Raiden "for reasons above" wouldn't be incorrect of him if I already weighed the pros and cons for each.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I voted Raiden for all things said at the time and I still vote him lmao

 

[Abstractions]

I voted Raiden for all things said at the time and I still vote him lmao

That is essentially what I said, yes. So the vote was always valid.

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

i have seen a lot of battle that everyone agree someone with higher ls shouldn't have problem with someone that have tk but smaller ls,so yeah raiden fra

 

[Smashtwig]

I really think Vader has this, just, TK him into the air, throw lightsaber.

You can't resist TK pulling you upwards, the only way that's happening is if you're super heavy, which Raiden really isn't

 

[Chariot190]

Doesn't Raiden have like, EMP grenades? Can't he just toss one of those bad boy's out and call it a day?

 

[Smashtwig]

Doesn't Raiden have like, EMP grenades? Can't he just toss one of those bad boy's out and call it a day?

True but... Vader can just TK that away to defend himself

 

[DaReaperMan]

True but... Vader can just TK that away to defend himself

Which Vader doesn't actually do that all that often, plus he probably wouldn't even recognize the EMPs Raiden can use

Also just saying I remember Vader not exactly having TK into just hold em there in-character

 

[Random-Helper323]

Based on above statements, I'm thinking things go one of a few ways.

Scenario 1: Close quarters combat. I'd say they exchange blows for a while, Vader starts to gain the edge, so Raiden activates Blade Mode. Vader's precog may or may not activate (Jedi precog has a fair few anti-feats) but even if it does Raiden instantly becomes about 5 times faster than Vader and hacks him to pieces. If it comes to it Raiden can also activate Ripper Mode so he can make even finer sliced Vader.

Scenario 2: telekinesis attack. There seems to be a misunderstanding above. If Vader tries to hold Raiden back with telekinesis, Raiden will pound through it and hack Vader to pieces (see Scenario 1), but if Vader lifts him, that's something that should realistically be irrelevant to Raiden's own ability to lift things unless he himself weighs that much or can attach himself to the ground or move himself in midair somehow. However, if Vader is focused on holding Raiden up, his ability to defend himself will be limited. What's stopping Raiden from activating Ripper Mode and flinging several EMP grenades at his top speed at Vader? With the lifting strength advantage, Vader can't restrain Raiden from doing so.

In this scenario I anticipate Vader lifting Raiden and trying to tear him apart, or alternatively throwing his lightsaber, which Raiden would block with his HF blade, and Raiden retaliating by flinging those grenades at him. If Vader gets hit his suit might shut down, in which case he's screwed, but even if his suit doesn't shut down he'll be getting hit by something thrown at him by Ripper Mode Raiden. Enough of these attacks is bound to force Vader to drop Raiden. And then it's back to Scenario 1, Raiden makes sliced Vader.

Scenario 3: mind hax. What happens here? Can Vader win this way? Raiden certainly isn't weak minded.