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Sans VS Doomguy

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Both one-shot, but Doomguy has more range, and Sans can't dodge a BFG shot.
 
The only way I can see Doomguy losing is if he thinks Sans is not worth using the BFG, which is likely, since it's not like he looks that scary, but even then Sans can't really dodge gunfire.
 
Um, isn't Doomguy's gunfire peaking out at Supersonic speed, which Sans is higher than in terms of reaction speed? Also, even though Sans never uses teleportation to dodge, only using it during attacks, it's usually counted as something he can do in vs threads. As for BFG, it specifies that both are 9-A, which restricts the BFG and Berserk sphere. Edit: Just remembered that speed is also equalized, that likely equalizes projectile speed in this context, so the whole gunfire thing is irrelevant anyways, although you could argue it'd quickly wear Sans down, as he gets exhausted after a little over 20 singular attacks in game.
 
Attack speed usually isn't included in speed equalization, and Doomguy has the Unmaker, which is SoL. Furthermore, his rockets home in, and stuff like the chaingun pumps out a lot of bullets- so I overall doubt Sans will be able to dodge for long. The question is if he manages to approach before getting shot.

And yeah, he can teleport, but he never does in character in a fight.
 
It is as far as I recall, regardless, Sans still dodges them. Unmaker only hurts Demon's, so it's irrelevant.

It's still included in his arsenal, and I doubt he just won't use it to dodge Doomguy's attacks, if he can't dodge them normally.
 
I'd totally forgotten about the Unmaker only hurting demons, my bad

And, huh, is it? I've been lied to.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Attack Speed is equalized in speed equalization
Click to expand...
Guns aren't equalized, we talked about this.
 
This is the sorta thing that really should be stated somewhere tbh
 
Armorchompy said:
This is the sorta thing that really should be stated somewhere tbh
Click to expand...
I'll make a thread about it in the future, the topic has been covered in the past but there should be some sort of rule in place to prevent misconceptions.
 
Wouldn't the bones go through it? Undertale attacks act as if they were physical, but Sans' just go through your hitbox.
 
Don't sans powers work based on karma?

Also the Unmakyr is never stated to be unable to attack anything other than demons (as of eternal)
 
it's called Karma, but we do not treat it as based on morality or anythign of the sort. Even if it were, only around 30% of Sans' DPS comes from Karma, the rest coming from the attacks themselves, and it's not like it matters cause Sans has to hit him once and he's dead.
 
Jangles211 said:
Don't sans powers work based on karma?

Also the Unmakyr is never stated to be unable to attack anything other than demons (as of eternal)
Click to expand...
Unmaker was intended for demons and states that it hurts demon-humans or tech demons very little. Those without demon physiology likely don't get hurt at all.
 
This Doomguy has the UnmakEr, the Doom 64 weapon, but not the UnmakYr, the secret weapon in Eternal. Either way, it's not gonna do anything to Sans, so it doesn't really matter.
 
Voting Doomguy. Sans has danmaku, but Doomguy is already used to fighting hoards of demons on his own, with them shooting tons of projectiles. And as far as I'm aware, he one-shots. Things like the chaingun or the rocket launcher's splash damage is gonna difficult for Sans to handle.
 
I doubt Doomguy will be able to dodge anything, but he does have higher range and most of his stuff will be much harder to dodge than a knife slash.
 
Armorchompy said:
I doubt Doomguy will be able to dodge anything, but he does have higher range and most of his stuff will be much harder to dodge than a knife slash.
Click to expand...
The knife isn't the only option for the fight, he can dodge shots from the Empty Gun as well.
 
The empty gun iirc is only a single shot. Doomguy's chaingun is a barrage of bullets, Rocket Launcher while he might dodge, is still gonna get hit by the splash damage.
 
It shot six. Still, both one-shot, and I will give this to Sans by the single fact that blue magic can't be dodged and Doomguy has no reason or way to tell that bones will sprout from underground before it happens.
 
Sans doesn't one-shot 9-A's. His durability negation isn't an instant win. Doomguy is already capable of surviving the Lost Soul who can posses beings by blowing up their souls.
 
Doom guy's armor and Sans' attacks are intangible and pass through the enemy to hurt them, he is the only guy who completely ignore's a person's armor in Undertale.

He also negates resistance of Frisk, who obviously resists soul destruction and no-selled Asriel absorbing every soul in the undergroung.
 
DatOneWeeb said:
Sans doesn't one-shot 9-A's. His durability negation isn't an instant win. Doomguy is already capable of surviving the Lost Soul who can posses beings by blowing up their souls.
Click to expand...
Lost Soul possession resistance is not in this key.

EDIT: Fight isn't complete without music
 
Intangiblity doesn't matter, due to Lost Souls.

Frisk doesn't resist soul destruction. The only time Frisk comes back after said soul destruction is when fighting Asriel. But any other enemy will straight up kill Frisk, needing to load. It's also already been discussed that Undertale does not negate durability by attacking souls alone due to certain issues. Sans only negates durability via karma, which even then isn't a one shot here. Doomguy takes too much damage, pop a Supercharge. In the case he gets attack from below, dodge. Sans isn't gonna make his attacks come from the ground after his first attack. Hoards of projectiles is nothing new to Doomguy, especially during DOOM 2 when there are enemies put everywhere.
 
Abstractions said:
Lost Soul possession resistance is not in this key.

EDIT: Fight isn't complete without music
Click to expand...
Odd, I should change that due to people agreeing Classic DOOM being the same continuity with DOOM 2016.
 
Yes he does. His soul is plain more durable than any monster, and they can boost their souls durability with LV.

It's also false that he only negates dura with Karma. Karma is poison, and would not have been enough to put durability Negation on the profile. He specifically ignores both the defense stat, and reduces invincibility frames (negates them normally, but notebook and glasses do give you a few moments of it). He, despite having 1 ATK, does thirty damage per second (1 HP per frame rate).

Sans' first attack is making bones come out of the ground to begin with, and Doomguy isn't dodging that without knowing about when those are coming. Sans has also changed the order and pattern of his attacks between fights to keep Frisk on their toes, so he will do that if he sees fit. Not like Doomguy is really going to be able to pass through the small spaces left in his attacks, or do anything about being slammed away with blue magic, either.

And I would ask actual video of any level of bullet hell close to Sans'.
 
That still doest matter. Surviving attacks that harm your soul =/= resistance to soul destruction.

Even if we take that into considerationl you contradicted yourself in which Sans does not one-shot Doomguy. Negating durability in Sans' case doest instanroy kill. He'll have to repeatedly attack Doomguy, assuming he does anothing. The first attack won't stop him from jumping. If Doomguy takes too much damage from the start, a Supercharge will fix him up.

Sans has never changed his attack patterns, this is outright false. Maybe during phase 2 he'll possibly mix it up, but Sans only does this when he starts getting more and more tired. Sans' attack moveset is based off of his fight as he always has the same pattern. This is all assuming Doomguy just stands still and doesn't attack. What is Sans going to do against his rocket launcher or chaingun. Weapons he isn't going to be able to dodge and kill him instantly. No reason to say why Doomguy can't fit through them, soul sizes don't vary, and slamming his oppnents is something he only starts to repeaditley use during phase 2.

Here we can see hoards of enemies. Several of them hoards of projectiles. The only one's thst him are from the Arch-vile because they automatically lock on to you.
 
It does, because the ability to survive the attacks increases. If you can tank attacks that would have previously destroyed your soul, that is resistance.

He doesn't one-shot, but his attacks stack and all he'd need to kill a level one Frisk is less than a second. His attacks stack damage on contact, which means that Doomguy will need to move away from the first attack for it to stop hurting.

The first attack will make it harder to jump due to blue magic, and with zero knowledge of where the bones are coming from he would have no reason to jump at all before he gets hit. I also don't remember the first game letting you really jump all that high.

Since when can doomguy just put the supercharge away and use it at his leisure? Isn't it a pickup that takes effect as soon as you grab it?

The order at which he uses them do get mixed up, as well as his dialougue and pauses. And he will absolutely be able to dodge them, since this isn't a game mechanics based fight and he can keep dodging with more than a single step. As has been argued a lot already, he can also just teleport, since he is shown to be able to do it casually without any problem and the only reason he didn't in canon is because he never needed it due to all of Frisk' attacks being easy to dodge except the one that broke the laws of reality.

Doomguy has no idea how to move his soul, or that he needs to move it specifically. He can figure it out obviously, even Frisk gets it right away, but he would first need to figure out what he has to do with it.

And in that clip, not only is doomguy being hit a lot, but he is faster than the projectiles and the enemies are not all attacking, let alone in a coordinated manner. Sans' danmaku far outdoes all that by being more concentrated and Doomguy being unable to predict. As the player, you get a 360 vision of where all his attacks come from and all that, Doomguy doesn't have that.

And lastly, there's nothing saying Doomguy will use the higher fire rate attacks. He may use the shotgun, the chainsaw, or even his lower tiered weapons.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
It does, because the ability to survive the attacks increases. If you can tank attacks that would have previously destroyed your soul, that is resistance.

>Boosting your souls durability is definitely not a resistance, that's literally just boosting said souls durability.

He doesn't one-shot, but his attacks stack and all he'd need to kill a level one Frisk is less than a second. His attacks stack damage on contact, which means that Doomguy will need to move away from the first attack for it to stop hurting.

>This is ignoring that Doomguy can already take hits from Lost Souls. You know, enemies that can blow up your own soul. Which means Doomguy in this case is definitely not gonna die that quickly here, he should be able to dodge prior to dying.

The first attack will make it harder to jump due to blue magic, and with zero knowledge of where the bones are coming from he would have no reason to jump at all before he gets hit. I also don't remember the first game letting you really jump all that high.

>Blue magic doesn't make it harder to jump, it literally just adds actual physics to the game since when you aren't blue, you can freely move around. You can't jump at all in the first three games, but those are obvious game mechanics. Once he gets hit from below, he jumps. Sans doesn't even keep that attack forever, he then switches immediately.

Since when can doomguy just put the supercharge away and use it at his leisure? Isn't it a pickup that takes effect as soon as you grab it?

>To be fair that might be a game mechanic, but that doesn't really change my point due to him starting with 200% hp.

The order at which he uses them do get mixed up, as well as his dialougue and pauses. And he will absolutely be able to dodge them, since this isn't a game mechanics based fight and he can keep dodging with more than a single step. As has been argued a lot already, he can also just teleport, since he is shown to be able to do it casually without any problem and the only reason he didn't in canon is because he never needed it due to all of Frisk' attacks being easy to dodge except the one that broke the laws of reality.

>His attack patterns never change, regardless of attacking, healing, or acting. His order doesn't change, that's literally how you're supposed to beat him. By remembering his attack patterns. So we're just going to assume Sans can dodge a rocket that has a large blast radius? The in-gameplay is irrelevant, we've never seen Sans dodge something like that. He's also not gonna be able to dodge a barrage of bullets either. That's headcanon, saying he never teleports for dodging because its too easy has no actual evidence. Sans never claims nor hints this. How is he going to know to teleport away from a rocket when he's never dealt with one. Also if you're going to say that this isn't a game mechanics fights, then stop bringing up game mechanics.

Doomguy has no idea how to move his soul, or that he needs to move it specifically. He can figure it out obviously, even Frisk gets it right away, but he would first need to figure out what he has to do with it.

>Moving your soul shouldn't be something he needs to learn, considering how it implies its just general movement. Flowey teaching Frisk at the start is only a tutorial.

And in that clip, not only is doomguy being hit a lot, but he is faster than the projectiles and the enemies are not all attacking, let alone in a coordinated manner. Sans' danmaku far outdoes all that by being more concentrated and Doomguy being unable to predict. As the player, you get a 360 vision of where all his attacks come from and all that, Doomguy doesn't have that.

>You read what I said, right? The only enemy to actually hit him was the Arch-vile due to their automatic lock on. Everything else he dodges. If an enemy in DOOM sees you, they start attacking. Only reason there's not much trouble is because he dodges. They're throwing it at him from all over the place. Sans danmaku is not as good as you are claiming it to be. Generally speaking his first phase is pretty weak in terms of danmaku. As if Doomguy needs to predict, a hoard of demons are shooting at him and he needs to predict? See, that's a game mechanic. Frisk isn't the player. So no, they shouldn't have a 360 vision. But if I play Devil's Advocate and say they do, Doomguy should by default due to the game working like this.

And lastly, there's nothing saying Doomguy will use the higher fire rate attacks. He may use the shotgun, the chainsaw, or even his lower tiered weapons.

>This is his 9-A key. Doomguy is the type to quickly kill his enemies as that's a huge part of DOOM, moving around a lot in quick speed.
Click to expand...
 
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