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Samus is still a certain tier

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Zebes being super durable is just as much of an assumption as gravity not applying normally to it. Besides, considering, again, nuclear reaction, it would have to be super-durable on that scale, which is an even bigger assumption.

It literally isn't an assumption though? Like 85% of the planet is composed of urthic ore and is enriched with bendzium, a material stated to be basically indestructible that has a ludicrous heat resistance and stable atomic structure. Aka, a super durable magic scifi metal is what Zebes is primarily composed of.
This isn't an assumption, this is actual canon information. At this point it just feels like you're saying everything is an assumption even when by definition it isn't.

Didn't want ya to waste your time recalculating it with the extra gravity, just wanted to get that out there.

I mean, if the gravity is legit I'm going to do so. And the only real argument you have is that realistically the sci-fi planet made out of super metal should be a black hole and not a planet. Everything else? Is easily explained with "hey the place that's protected from hazards and detrimental effects could also just protect from the intense gravity as well like it does everything else" that's a single assumption, and a reasonable one at that given the Chozo. The other points are just arguments out of disbelief that characters can't be strong if they didn't evolve for that type of gravity, in the verse where we have HUMANS who can tank nukes without aid (and I'm not talking about Samus), fight against Samus and are bordering on top tiers of the verse or super bird aliens or whatever the **** some of the prime hunters are.
 
It literally isn't an assumption though? Like 85% of the planet is composed of urthic ore and is enriched with bendzium, a material stated to be basically indestructible that has a ludicrous heat resistance and stable atomic structure. Aka, a super durable magic scifi metal is what Zebes is primarily composed of.
This isn't an assumption, this is actual canon information. At this point it just feels like you're saying everything is an assumption even when by definition it isn't.
Fair enough.
I mean, if the gravity is legit I'm going to do so. And the only real argument you have is that realistically the sci-fi planet made out of super metal should be a black hole and not a planet. Everything else? Is easily explained with "hey the place that's protected from hazards and detrimental effects could also just protect from the intense gravity as well like it does everything else" that's a single assumption, and a reasonable one at that given the Chozo. The other points are just arguments out of disbelief that characters can't be strong if they didn't evolve for that type of gravity, in the verse where we have HUMANS who can tank nukes without aid (and I'm not talking about Samus), fight against Samus and are bordering on top tiers of the verse or super bird aliens or whatever the **** some of the prime hunters are.
I was saying the gravity wouldn't apply to that feat because it happens in the area that the Chozo were protecting with their gravity reducer or whatever.
 
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It may cause as many destructions as you say, but it still needs its most powerful weapons for that, and Samus can't do the same while she's weaker than it.
How do we know that hatch is made of Bendezium? And even if it is, Samus still explores the BOX's area while she's not equipped with Power Bombs yet.
Again, the SA-X doesn't use regular Missiles for those destructions.
Her being able to tank them means her durability is higher than her destructive capacity.
Then please explain the statements in my last link.
 
I was saying the gravity wouldn't apply to that feat because it happens in the area that the Chozo were protecting with their gravity reducer or whatever.

That's possibly fair, though if the micro blackhole ****** things up idk man. But worse case scenario, is there anything else to scale them off? There's the nuclear blast in Joey I think that Varia tanked without a scratch, that nuclear blast is easily tier 6, there's also Greed, another member of Ridley's species who Ridley should be comparable, if not even stronger then.
 
That's possibly fair, though if the micro blackhole ****** things up idk man. But worse case scenario, is there anything else to scale them off? There's the nuclear blast in Joey I think that Varia tanked without a scratch, that nuclear blast is easily tier 6, there's also Greed, another member of Ridley's species who Ridley should be comparable, if not even stronger then.
I'm not really sure, honestly. I know the games, but I haven't even glanced at S&J. I don't think it's fair to say the micro black hole damaged that without any statements tho
 
It may cause as many destructions as you say, but it still needs its most powerful weapons for that, and Samus can't do the same while she's weaker than it.

She can't even do it WHILE STRONGER then it, is that not a red flag to you? That while unrestricted by gameplay, Samus' own equipment can casually tear through doors, locks, entire rooms and stages? But when Samus gets those same tech, she isn't literally melting doors or blowing up the rooms and stuff?

How do we know that hatch is made of Bendezium? And even if it is, Samus still explores the BOX's area while she's not equipped with Power Bombs yet.

Because it's one of the most popular building materials in the galaxy, as stated by the Galactic Federation themselves. A state of the art high tech high security lab station is gonna be made of the good shit my dude, Bendezium for them is like normal steel for us, in fact, do they even have normal steel?
Wasn't the point, my point was even a random security droid can rip through and destroy everything in it's path, and it has nothing on Samus in any category.

Again, the SA-X doesn't use regular Missiles for those destructions.

And? That's a moot point. The fact it can with any weapon but Samus can't even while using the same weapon should tip you off that maybe just maybe the reason why Samus isnt annihilating everything in her path is due to gameplay and game limitation.

Her being able to tank them means her durability is higher than her destructive capacity.

And characters like Dark Samus and SA-X can harm her with beam weapons or physically. And she can harm them, put simply, Power Bombs arent exactly the top of Samus' arsenal, in fact, based on what they do to the characters, they actually one of the weakest ones. Hell in Metroid Fusion a weakened Samus can tank a SA-X powerbomb and it does like no damage yet a beam from the SA-X kills you in like one shot at that point in the game.

Then please explain the statements in my last link.

You mean the sandstone that your link goes on record to say is extremely weak and can easily be blown through by beam weapons? That doesn't help your point mate, it helps mine.
 
I'm not really sure, honestly. I know the games, but I haven't even glanced at S&J. I don't think it's fair to say the micro black hole damaged that without any statements tho
I think I got some pixel scaling for the explosion at least, I'll see if I still have it.
 
hJ7U5UC.jpg


Eh, it's at a bit of an angle and the curvature looks a bit off, but for a rough approximation this could be worth looking into. 'Best part is it's a nuclear blast so we don't need to divide the result and Samus explicitly arose from the center of the blast, even with inverse square law, she was at best a few meters away from the bomb too.
 
I don't have time to go over this; I have work in less than 30 minutes and over 30 notifications. But all I can say atm is that Chariot is making a lot more sense here.
 
I don't have time to go over this; I have work in less than 30 minutes and over 30 notifications. But all I can say atm is that Chariot is making a lot more sense here.
Honestly, basically all that's happened since you left is talk of if the gravity on Zebes is legit. That's the only thing really that's been talked about. You could probably skim it quickly after work and get a pretty good idea.

Except maybe the Ridley feat but eh, chances are the alternative feats are just as good if not better so it may turn out to be a surprise upgrade. No promises though, inverse square law is a bitch but it shouldnt be to bad given how close Samus was to the bomb.
 
It was also brought up that the ZSS fall feat should be put in a blog and properly evaluated, especially since I find it kinda questionably calced.
 
Yeah, we should use the canon info literally given in the main games + two remakes that fixed translations and still didn't change it a single bit over a fabricated source made by a vandalizer. Zero Suit Samus fall could use a recalculation, but I'm sure it would be an upgrade given how explosions work in high gravity environments.
 
Honestly, we could probably just scale ZS to Space Pirates (who actually have some decent scaling behind them, she'd be weaker, but being weaker then a pirate may not even be a downgrade).
Alternatively, we could possibly scale her to a Chozo, that one is a bit iffy, but she's been enhanced to be on par with one right? She's basically half bird.
 
I recall J-Man did make some striking strength calculations that Zero Suit Samus would be Low 7-C at minimum.
 
I recall J-Man did make some striking strength calculations that Zero Suit Samus would be Low 7-C at minimum.
I typed Metroid into the wiki search and sorted by blogs, couldnt find any ZSS calc by that dude (there was a calc for Ridley though and a pretty ehhhh attempt at the nuke).
t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶f̶e̶w̶ ̶j̶o̶j̶o̶ ̶f̶e̶a̶t̶s̶ ̶i̶ ̶m̶a̶y̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶t̶e̶a̶l̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶r̶e̶d̶o̶

Couldnt find anything on ZS though, except the gunship crash.
 
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1) Then that's a canon GM while she's not stronger than it but a non-canon one after she surpasses it near the end, because of technical limitations or devs' laziness.
2) That "random security droid" is a boss-level character, and again, Samus isn't equipped with Power Bombs yet when she explores its area.
3) See point 1 again.
4) That depends on her suit's properties, just like surface materials are tougher against certain weapons than against others depending on their properties as stated in their official data; and as for the SA-X's beams, I guess you don't mean its Ice Beam as she's weak against it in that adventure because of the vaccine.
5) I mean this link, which mentions what the SA-X can't do without hatch activation; and how does the sandstone reference help your point?
 
1) Then that's a canon GM while she's not stronger than it but a non-canon one after she surpasses it near the end, because of technical limitations or devs' laziness.

Dude that was just one example, I can bring up many more, **** even sticking to Fusion, there's multiple enemies that can rip apart stages and rooms and the like, and Samus beats them nowhere near end game. And I don't think you realize, but I'm talking in general, SA-X is shown casually annihilating doors, tearing apart rooms, changing the game's geography, yet Super Metroid Samus can't just blow the **** out of every door she sees even though the SA-X is literally Super Metroid Samus. Do you not think that maybe Samus blowing the **** out of every door, wall and puzzle is because of gameplay and not because she can't do it if she wanted to when we outright SEE that her powers CAN do that when not bound to the gameplay.
And dev's laziness? I hope you're joking, are you actually asking for every single square tile of the game to be destructible and to be able to just vaporize a path into the final boss? If so, please never make a video game.

That "random security droid" is a boss-level character, and again, Samus isn't equipped with Power Bombs yet when she explores its area.

And? That boss level character ran from Samus because it was getting its ass kicked, it's a boss but in context it's nothing special, and yet when it runs away it does so by ripping a hole through the room and collapsing a bunch of shit. And Samus>>>That thing. Third law applies too.

3) See point 1 again.

i did, and as I said, even when Samus has the exact same weapons' she can't do that because if she did that would be ******* stupid and braindead and would make for a broken game. I said it before and I'll say it again, gameplay segregation, look it up on Tv tropes or something if you must. Don't confuse game design and gameplay limitations for actual canonical statistics or capabilities, it's shit like that which leads to Rattata being able to >>> Arceus or Goomba being able to kill Mario.

4) That depends on her suit's properties, just like surface materials are tougher against certain weapons than against others depending on their properties as stated in their official data; and as for the SA-X's beams, I guess you don't mean its Ice Beam as she's weak against it in that adventure because of the vaccine.

Uh, you do realize that there's not a single suit she has which hyper specific properties like that? Samus can tank a power bomb at her weakest in a broken ass suit, in fact, arguably her weakest. And yet characters like Dark, Ridley and more can physically beat the shit out of drastically higher suits. And none of Samus' suit have any special resistance that would explain that way, usually the suit's resistances are things like heat resistance or resistance to some hazard.
That beam has a freezing effect, but it's a stacked beam, and that's without getting into the fact that even after she gets varia, the plasma/wave facet of the beam is still strong as all ****.

5) I mean this link, which mentions what the SA-X can't do without hatch activation; and how does the sandstone reference help your point?

You mean the link that doesn't actually say she couldnt do it without the security locks being unrestricted and is shown to be demonstrably false at multiple points in the game. All that link says is that by releasing the lock the SA-X invaded the water sector. I hope to god you aren't trying to argue that SA-X can't rip apart locks, doors, rooms and the like when all throughout the game we see the aftermath of it's trail. Even destroying pathways and the like. Because sandstone is outright stated to be an incredibly weak substance that can be blown the **** out in verse and lore, are you going to argue because Samus can't blow down a sandstone wall in game because of course she wouldnt be able to why would they program and implement a super advance destruction system in a action platformer metroidvania game, to mean that she cant actually destroy that stuff when in the same game in logs we're told she can?


I'm going to be blunt here, but you need to learn the difference between gameplay and lore. You've said nothing regarding this topic that isn't demonstrably proven false in cutscscenes or statements or basic ass scaling.
 
I will say, in regards to Zebes' gravity, that the pros supporting the Prime rating heavily outweigh any counterargument:
  1. Metroid Prime's scans have been changed a total of twice after its initial release (PAL, ETSC, & Trilogy ETSC) with the outright removal of entire entries, but the mass and size of Zebes remains untouched and consistent with Tallon IV as well.
  2. Ape Inc's guide is lit. just the Japanese version of Scholastic's non-canon Pokemon guides.
  3. Most of what Ape Inc stated has been completely non-canon, such as Samus being a newhalf or being an outlaw bounty hunter.
    1. Even if it was canon, almost everything pre-Prime era was heavily retconned. Such as Deathstar Zebeth, Dark Samus-esque Space Pirates, a heavily altered version of Samus' backstory, & etc.
  4. Retro has already also described Zebes as a Superdense Planet, contradicting Ape Inc.'s supposed gravity.
  5. Similarly, Zebes' extreme gravity is reflected by its extremely wack solar system where planet-encompassing meteors create a meteor belt unable to form planets on their own. To give you a comparison, the asteroid belt in our system can't form into a planet due to Jupiter's gravity interfering, but these meteors individually pale in size to what's shown in Metroid.
  6. Finally, perhaps the ultimate issue here, is that the supposed gravity page that Ape Inc. produced doesn't exist. All translations have found this to have never been mentioned, with a large probability of this being a fan-made rumor after someone conveniently added it without a source to the Metroid wiki after the original debate.
 
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Ah, it breaks when you go full size, at least for me. Gotcha, know what you're referring to now.
 
Well, I'm mostly convinced overall. That said, some of the calcs should still be looked at.
 
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1) Materials can be damaged by different attacks depending on their properties, Super Metroid Samus isn’t SA-X-level until near that game’s end, what we see is the SA-X needing its strongest weapons to cause destructions, and your response to the devs’ laziness argument (and the argument itself) ignores that she can’t destroy tough surfaces if they’re not weakened even after surpassing her mimicker.
2) Then the BOX has attacks taking advantage of those materials’ properties.
3) And I’ll repeat what I should’ve said rather than using the technical limitations and devs’ laziness arguments, but in other words: The SA-X can only destroy weakened surfaces (see the Power Bomb icons) and Samus has that limit too even after surpassing it.
4) I mean molecular or atomic properties, not hyper specific ones.
5a) The SA-X being able to cross blue hatches after their lock was released means it can’t destroy hatches tougher than those it needs Super Missiles against and Samus can’t either.
5b) The sandstone surfaces she can destroy are weakened ones (see the official data).
I’m going to be blunt too: Game mechanics seem to establish the lore as well as story elements do.
 
Materials can be damaged by different attacks depending on their properties, Super Metroid Samus isn’t SA-X-level until near that game’s end, what we see is the SA-X needing its strongest weapons to cause destructions, and your response to the devs’ laziness argument (and the argument itself) ignores that she can’t destroy tough surfaces if they’re not weakened even after surpassing her mimicker.

Have you ever played any of these games before? SA-X, in your own words, uses super missiles and power bombs to cause that destruction, is that not what you said? Because in case you forgot, you get super missiles within the first 15 minutes of Super Metroid and power bombs within the first hour, they're early game items. So you saying "well it was late game" is completely and objectively false.
And yet her mimicker and like a dozen of other characters have shown time and time again they literally don't give a **** and will blow out entire rooms if need be, and they're all explicitly weaker then Samus. Do you actually hear yourself? You realize you're wasting everyone's time with this argument right? Whether or not you like it or not, Samus' weapons has been shown time and time again multiple times over to be capable of ripping through the game outside of gameplay, you're trying to say "well Samus can't just vaporize everything in her path including the maps and doors and walls means she canonically can't" is one of the biggest lies and blatant dishonesty I've seen on this site. Do you not know how video games are made? There's a difference between Samus being unable to shoot through a wall in gameplay and her being outright confirmed to be able to do so in lore, learn the difference and learn it now. Again, no, that isn't me ignoring anything, it's called basically level design, I can even point out times where said material is explicitly stated to be reinforced and she can blow up those objects, yet not the basic level geometry, even though the basic stone wall is going to obviously be less durable then the super reinforced metal capsule. like I'm honestly baffled here, do you think implementing a advanced total environmental destruction into ******* 16 bit games is easy? Or even the Prime games? Let alone the fact these games aren't meant to be those types of games. Do you complain about characters taking turns in RPG's too and act like they HAVE to take turns canonically as well because that's how it works in gameplay?

Then the BOX has attacks taking advantage of those materials’ properties.

Except that's wrong and you know it, all it does is physically smash through it like wet tissue, there is no special attack, it basically just rams and tears through the material as is. And Samus is stronger then it. ****, the omega Metroid can also rip through the station like butter, and Samus has been shown to physically grapple and overpower them with her fists in other games.

And I’ll repeat what I should’ve said rather than using the technical limitations and devs’ laziness arguments, but in other words: The SA-X can only destroy weakened surfaces (see the Power Bomb icons) and Samus has that limit too even after surpassing it.

Ok so you really don't know how this works then do you? No shit they have the power bomb icon, they're programed to be destroyed by them, it's an ingame indicator, outside of the gameplay and mechanics, that material is no different then anything else in that room, and weakened? I could pull a text rip of the entire game right now and I'd fail to find a statement saying those blocks were actually weakened. Like why the hell are you lying? ****, you realize they're programed that way because that scene takes place within gameplay and not cinematic so they had to design the scene within the limitations of the game's framework, it's like Mr.X in the original RE2, SA-X occasionally shows up in gameplay segments and you have to escape her, hence the indicators and preprogrammed destructible blocks, and thus had to make the blocks she destroyed the same type that show up elsewhere. Again, reminder, we see SA-X blow holes through the solid ship walls or level entire rooms while outside of gameplay. Hell the very first time we see SA-X she emerges from having blown a hole through the ship's wall, something that in gameplay is invincible because of course it is why wouldnt it be?

I mean molecular or atomic properties, not hyper specific ones.

Literally none of her suits have anything akin to that except the Prime suits, and that's just resisting or negating the effects of dark aether.

The SA-X being able to cross blue hatches after their lock was released means it can’t destroy hatches tougher than those it needs Super Missiles against and Samus can’t either.

No, that's literally you extrapolating that the SA-X entering a sector once it notices it was unlocked and thus went there to mean it was incapable of entering without it being unlocked (even though it had no issue entering any of the other sectors even when locked).

The sandstone surfaces she can destroy are weakened ones (see the official data).

And the official data explicitly makes mention of normal sandstone with no mention of being weakened being one of the weakest materials ever and worth nothing in regards to resilience. In the same game where Samus can destroy the galaxy's most durable metal or literally VAPORIZE heavily armored scifi organisms. Are you going to tell me a sandstone wall is somehow more durable then a giant animal or armored pirates using advanced weaponry and shielding yet get vaporized in one shot to mean that same shot not annihilating a basic wall to mean that wall is somehow more durable then the above? If your answer is yes, cease immediately.

I’m going to be blunt too: Game mechanics seem to establish the lore as well as story elements do.

Only when they're not proven explicitly false time and time again, and especially not when it's shit like "this character can destroy the game's entire geography so they aren't that strong despite having multiple feats that say they can as well as being shown capable of ripping through the environment when not bound by gameplay". This really shouldn't be difficult to comprehend, it's literally like getting mad that Superman in a game cant sash through every building in the game even though we see him do it elsewhere and in cutscenes and lore we're told and shown outright he can. This isn't a Metroid thing, this goes for every single video game in existence, I honestly can't believe I'm even debating this.
 
1) I just forgot how early Super Missiles and Power Bombs are obtained in SM as they’re Samus’s mightiest weapons, but tough surfaces still can be destroyed by them only if they’re weakened.
This also applies to her mimicker’s case, those other characters’ cases depend on materials’ properties, and when have her weapons been shown to be able trip through a game? Last, turn-based battles are a non-canon GM.
2) I mean attacks taking advantage of materials’ properties (like bombs can do what missiles can’t and viceversa), not special attacks.
3) I know those icons are only visual indicators, but they still indicate the surface is somehow weakened, and that moment occurs during gameplay but doesn’t increase or decrease challenge to be a non-canon GM.
4) They can withstand as well as undamaged surfaces can, so they have certain physical properties.
5a) “With the blue hatches active, the SA-X slipped in easily.”
5b) “Structural weakness detected in Sandstone block.”, Multiple microscopic fractures found throughout Sandstone wall section.”… Yes, her scanner tells her if an obstacle is weakened, the same applies to the galaxy’s most durable metal, and when does she vaporize heavily armored sci-fi organisms?
I know how you feel, I couldn’t believe it when I learned that some characters are argued to be mightier than normally seen.
 
I just forgot how early Super Missiles and Power Bombs are obtained in SM as they’re Samus’s mightiest weapons, but tough surfaces still can be destroyed by them only if they’re weakened.

No, something tells me you're purposely twisting or leaving out vital information, you've already been called out on it multiple times and some points are extremely blatant. Power Bombs and Super Missiles arent Samus strongest weapons, especially Power Bombs as they're explicitly so weak that Samus can canonically withstand them at ground zero with zero damage. And again, you're making that completely up, as said, I can find examples where it's stated such material is reinforced and will be destroyed none the less? Do you simply not read?

This also applies to her mimicker’s case, those other characters’ cases depend on materials’ properties, and when have her weapons been shown to be able trip through a game? Last, turn-based battles are a non-canon GM.

Except it doesn't, stop ******* lying, those character's cases depends on the material's property? Do you need me to give you a list of every time in Fusion alone? Three of the sectors by the end of the game are almost completely torn apart by various enemies like Nightmare, BOX or SA-X. You're trying to tell me the floor and ceiling that SA-X has been shown to destroy is somehow weakened? Even though in multiple cases Samus goes through those locations and the things that end up being completely ravaged are 100% no different then the rest of the level geometry? When have they shown? Gee I don't know probably one such time being the SA-X who is shown time and time again to literally rearrange a sectors geography.

I mean attacks taking advantage of materials’ properties (like bombs can do what missiles can’t and viceversa), not special attacks.

What's the difference between the Jungle sector, Ice Sector and so on's walls then? Honestly stop making shit up it's getting annoying. There is nothing special or different about the station's walls, ceilings and so on and the examples that do get torn through like wet tissue sure as hell aren't any different then the rest of the material that makes up the same wall or room. Stop forcing your made up bullshit into things because no body is ever going to take you seriously when half of what you say is just completely made up. Hell the SA-X at one point completely ravages a giant room putting numerous holes throughout the room with a beam weapon let alone missiles and bombs so even then, and she does it onscreen.

I know those icons are only visual indicators, but they still indicate the surface is somehow weakened, and that moment occurs during gameplay but doesn’t increase or decrease challenge to be a non-canon GM.

Except they don't, I even went through a text rip of Fusion and nowhere in the game does it ever say that those materials are weakened or any different from anything else, again, it's just you assuming they are because Samus can't just vaporize a hole in any wall because it's a ******* video game.

They can withstand as well as undamaged surfaces can, so they have certain physical properties.

The **** are you even talking about here? The only physical property here is if something is simply durable or not durable unless otherwise specified.


Yeah no shit? You're just repeating yourself now, this doesn't counter anything I said. You said nothing new so I won't either.

"No, that's literally you extrapolating that the SA-X entering a sector once it notices it was unlocked and thus went there to mean it was incapable of entering without it being unlocked (even though it had no issue entering any of the other sectors even when locked)."

"You mean the link that doesn't actually say she couldnt do it without the security locks being unrestricted and is shown to be demonstrably false at multiple points in the game. All that link says is that by releasing the lock the SA-X invaded the water sector. I hope to god you aren't trying to argue that SA-X can't rip apart locks, doors, rooms and the like when all throughout the game we see the aftermath of it's trail. Even destroying pathways and the like."

“Structural weakness detected in Sandstone block.”, Multiple microscopic fractures found throughout Sandstone wall section.”… Yes, her scanner tells her if an obstacle is weakened, the same applies to the galaxy’s most durable metal, and when does she vaporize heavily armored sci-fi organisms?

I can't tell if you missed this but even in your own link, the canonical description of sandstone says ""Sandstone is a sedimentary rock consisting usually of quartz sand held together by an adhesive agent such as calcium carbonate or silica. Sandstone stands up well to natural erosion, but it can easily be destroyed by focused energy blasts."

With zero mention of it needing to be weakened first. Does she destroy weakened ones in game? Yeah no shit. Does that mean she can't destroy non weakened sandstone? No it doesnt. How hard is this for you to comprehend? And as for the strongest metal in the universe? Same applies, made even worse because we outright do see her destroy it when completely sound without zero integral weakness or characters vastly weaker then her do the same throughout a multitude of games.
When has she done that? Have you ever played a Prime game? Certain beams can literally turn enemies into vapor and ash, including space pirates elites and shit.
Hell or the sheegoths, if hit with a strong enough beam they literally turn charcoal black, ignite and fade into thin air from the heat of the weapon yet that same weapon doesnt blow a hole in a ice wall or low melting point wall, probably because video games don't ******* work like you think they do.

I know how you feel, I couldn’t believe it when I learned that some characters are argued to be mightier than normally seen.

The only thing I can't believe is that I'm actually arguing the most basic commonsense here with you as if it was an actual controversial topic. ******* gameplay segregation exists dude and fyi stop making shit up, you did it in the OP and now you're adding tiny bits of false information into your points as if it isn't blatantly not true to anyone who has the slightest idea of what you're talking about.
 
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Drop the stupid "video game character cant destroy the entire game so theyre weak" bullshit. It's not even a real argument and if you dont know the difference between in game limitations and lore and canon then you probably shouldnt even be debating video game characters to begin with.
 
Should we make a new thread that isn't littered with OP's weird as **** arguments and points so we can properly discuss possibly redoing a few feats and maybe looking into a few other feats that may even lead to upgrades or support for their current tiering?
 
I'm surprised people are still taking OP seriously. You guys are better off with a new thread.
 
I'm surprised people are still taking OP seriously. You guys are better off with a new thread.
I'm not, at least not anymore. I heard of his past threads so I decided to look them up and holy ****.
It honestly feels like a haha funny meme but I've yet to see him say sike.

But indeed, a new thread should probably be best, or we could just take it the discussion thread or a discord server and discuss things in one of the two and try to make some headway into fleshing things or and working towards a more accurate profile.
 
It's simply a different way to see things, incompatible with VSBW, but I wouldn't spit on it in another context.
 
That's what I thought initially which is why I even bothered debating, but, well take a look at some of his past threads if you want, he was banned from Nintendo for a reason.
There's actual literal nonarguments like because something isn't violent certain feats don't count? In reference to Pokemon.
Or things that are blatantly purposeful information which honestly comes off as lying rather then just confusion or misremembering.
(which is even this thread alone like his Dark Samus point, his counter to it is objectively false and made up or leaving out vital information such as like how, while the Space Pirates did bring Metroids to Tallon IV, so did the Chozo ages prior, they're two different batches of the things, hell one such Metroid becomes the titular character).

Spit on it? Wouldnt go that far but this really does feel like a troll attempt.
 
Wall of text
1a) See point 4 for Samus’s toughness against Power Bombs… Next, her Scan Visor tells her if an obstacle is weakened; see point 6a for more details.
1b) I’m not lying given point 1a, all cases depend on materials’ properties (kreuger displacement, atomic weight and vacuum potential, as shown in their official data), and your third sub-point is explained by my second sub-point in this point 1b.
2) OK, unless those plants, ice surfaces or other objects are stated to be composed of certain compounds, those cases constitute one non-canon GM… Now five canon ones: Samus can roll through tight spaces with her Morph Ball, she can drop bombs in that ball form, she can fire charged shots with her Charge Beam, she can fire missiles and she can hang on certain surfaces with her Grapple Beam.
3) There’s no need for a statement in this case, because… How do those visual indicators not indicate the surface must be somehow weakened? They’re consistent with the Scan Visor’s function.
4) Materials’ properties are specified in their official data and Samus’s suits scale to them.
5) I didn’t repeat myself, I re-inserted the link so you can see in context until you read the copied statement in 1:00:02, which mentions what the SA-X can easily do now because of the blue hatches being active now.
6a) The description doesn’t say sandstone can always be destroyed by bombs, and the opposite would be inconsistent with the scans.
6b) Certain beams doing that to certain enemies… That depends on the beams’ properties and the enemies’ physical compositions.
 
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I typed Metroid into the wiki search and sorted by blogs, couldnt find any ZSS calc by that dude (there was a calc for Ridley though and a pretty ehhhh attempt at the nuke).
t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶f̶e̶w̶ ̶j̶o̶j̶o̶ ̶f̶e̶a̶t̶s̶ ̶i̶ ̶m̶a̶y̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶t̶e̶a̶l̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶r̶e̶d̶o̶

Couldnt find anything on ZS though, except the gunship crash.
Well, he apparently didn't put it in any sort of blog, nor did I see the work for it. But this was the post where it was mentioned.

But I pretty much agree every argument is "It's an outlier because I said so" or "It's non-canon because I said so" or taking every single game mechanic limitation in the book literally. This is "Master Chief should be 10-C because he gets killed instantly by three inch streams of water" levels of bad arguments.
 
Not a wall of text
I’m still waiting for your reply to my last reply in our discussion; but for now, this is how the Chozo couldn’t have taken Metroids to Tallon IV:
“Horrified by the increasing violence in the universe, they began to withdraw into themselves, forgoing technology in favor of simplicity. Tallon IV was one of the several refuges they built - a colony bereft of technology, built of natural materials and wedded to the land and its creatures.”… Prior to their arrival to Tallon IV, the Chozo stopped using high technology, which includes anything about Metroids.

Next, even if the Chozo had taken Metroids to Tallon IV:
“The years passed, and in time a great meteor crashed into Tallon IV, sending a massive spume of matter into the atmosphere and impregnating the land with a cancerous element known as Phazon. This element immediately sank into the earth and water, poisoning life wherever it bloomed.”… The Leviathan’s impact alone didn’t kill Tallon IV’s living beings around, so Metroids surviving too wouldn’t be a feat.

Finally, as I previously said:
Samus needs the Defense Cannon to destroy a Leviathan directly and even needs Phazon energy to destroy a Leviathan’s core, so she couldn’t kill anything that could survive a Leviathan’s impact.
 
Dude, just stop.
Everyone is getting sick of this.

which includes anything about Metroids.

Except that's LITERALLY wrong. Need I remind you about the TITULAR CHARACTER.

The Leviathan’s impact alone didn’t kill Tallon IV’s living beings around, so Metroids surviving too wouldn’t be a feat.

No, it didn't lifewipe, it just completely annihilated everything at the impact, the impact crater which was calculated to be a certain yield, which Metroids were there.

Samus needs the Defense Cannon to destroy a Leviathan directly and even needs Phazon energy to destroy a Leviathan’s core, so she couldn’t kill anything that could survive a Leviathan’s impact.

Metroid Prime says what? Dark Samus says what? (also even ignoring basic ass gameplay reasoning, did it maybe not cross your mind that a nowhere near full power samus simply lacked the ability to even hit the thing in the first place? As in, range).
 
Yes, that still means Metroids could have easily been on Tallon IV during the impact; many races were on their during the impact. Space Pirates only collected Tallon IV and it said they transferred them to their ship for Phazon testing. Also that's literally the entire lore surrounding Tallon IV Metroids. Metroids wouldn't be phazon'd right away if they were taken after the incident.

It wasn't the impact, but rather the spread of Phazon. They were existing on a transcendent plane that was outside of time and space yet Phazon was able to reach them. It just shows how brokenly haxed Phazon is; it can even effect you if you live outside of space-time. But the Metroids physically took a direct hit; yes surface area would still need to be accounted for, but even characters with other planet level AP feats struggling to kill them would still be Planet level.

That is actually contradicted. In the first Prime game, she consistently fights enemies who were amped by Phazon even without Phazon enhancements and said foes absorbed enough Phazon to destroy Leviathans; especially the Omega Pirate. And Dark Samus also eats Leviathan cores regularly and Samus in just her Varia Suit consistently tanks blows from her; she'd still have planet level durability. Also, she regularly kills Phazon enhanced enemies tougher than Leviathan with her Super Missiles and Power Bombs; needing a defense cannon would still be PIS if anything.
 
Chariot190
1) But what would have Chozo done with Metroids in that time, especially in “a colony bereft of technology”?
2) Since Tallon IV’s Metroids were taken there by Space Pirates, Fission Metroids must’ve evolved from them.
3) Samus uses the Defense Cannon to destroy a Leviathan in a cutscene and travels to others’ insides in cutscenes.
Now, how about you reply to my last reply in our discussion?

DarkDragonMedeus
1) The Space Pirates transferred the Metroids from their ship to their lab, and the Phazon infusion occurred afterward.
2) Even if Tallon IV’s Metroids had been taken there by Chozo… Outside of space-time?
3) And everything Samus does to destroy other Leviathans is PIS, too? Your other claims must be misinterpretations instead.
Now, how about you reply to my last reply in our discussion?
 
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