We know what it says, the argument is the never mentioned gravity, doesnt add up with it.
Where's the source for the gravity? That, is what's important.
The very first planet on the list Bilium, which would be FS-176's counter part to Mercury or 1st planet from the star, is described as a Gas Giant and other similar synonyms. And it would be consistent with having double the mass of Jupiter as is the notable hazards it is known for. The second appears to be the smallest on the list, and it's hard to interpret what "Nuclear Dust Storms" mean, but generally means its change in temperature is out of control thus goes back and forth between between extremely hot global warmings and super frosty global winters. Seismic Upheavals seems to refer to massive earthquakes happening left and right. And Twin Tabula is a poison heavy fever planet. But hey, we have at least one gas giant on the list; and some speculate Twin Tabula might also be a gas giant. So if there's a complaint about planets having crazy high density, I'd argue the opposite issue if Bilium was assumed to have less density than Hydrogen. Because sure German version lowered the mass of Zebes and Tallon IV a thousand fold, but they also did it to the other three planets to imply the mass of a gas giant is less than the likes of Venus or Earth and has less density than Hydrogen. There's going to be an error and levels of absurdity regardless of which version is preferred. Though, even I would agree 10^33 is the craziest interpretation on the list.
Now that I argued primary canon, the mass is pretty blatant, so I many not be very blunt about the volume vs density stuff. But I will point out some flaws in the OP. To address issues with this quotation.
Dont mean to be rude, but, none of this matters, at all.
The point, was, that "hey the mass is absolutely uncorroborated". They're
all ****** up dude, it's all the
SAME source, it's just them yapping not comprehending the implications, as evidenced by a metric fuckton of contradictions and lack of any support to gravity, which in and of itself, isn't even real. And case and point, you're arguing about a gas giant having unrealistic weight, but god forbid the unrealistic weight we know doesn't check out isn't consistent, hell aint it odd everything is like that too?
And that's assuming it even is a gas giant, they don't actually say that.
But at the end of the day, our goal is not to propose what sounds the most realistic, but it's to support whatever is the primary canon.
No it isnt, it's to use whatever is consistent.
It was developed by a North American company, supervised by an International Japanese company, but the NA is the OG version with everything else simply just being secondary canon at best that are just mere translation localizations
Man, we literally use PAL as main canon, not that it matters, just goes to show it ain't that simple.
It being a different medium than manga stuff is not important; Viz Media English dubs are never more canon than original Japanese versions,
Oh yes it is, the entire process is different between a manga and say, Nintendo's, a Italian translation of DBZ isn't getting fact-checked by Akira Toriyama or Shuiesha.
but giving the German version pure favoritism is literally doing that.
Ya know, no offense, but the constant strawmanning is beginning to get really aggravating.
How is it you read the thread, where multiple people specified what it's being used for, and you still strawman like that?
It's also the reason we consider other games canon. -snip
Despite your claims, that is a whataboutism, and not even relevant to the topic. Hell you basically backpedal and shoot yourself in the foot further down in your own post regarding miscommunication and intepration.
But, that doesn't matter, the point that nothing but the Prime statement suggests it, contradicted no less, and never supported, and all from a fancalc no less.
This may all sound good on paper, but in execution leaves out quite a bit of details. First of all, while the official atomic weight sounds like a step to support the idea of Zebes and Tallon IV being not as dense and thus indicating likelihood of great volume. But I can still take apart other flaws here. First of all, Bendezium is a rare substance compared to Urthic Ore, which clearly has an unknown density; we know over 85% of Zebes is made of Urthic, which means there is less than 15% remaining. Not that it matters as much since Bendezium is highlighted as a "Extremely Dense Solid", but other details.
One is extremely dense, we also know what the average
isnt, as an above average one, still has normal density.
Bendzium is linked to Urthic Ore, and it doesn't even matter, we see over 15% of Zebes, 90% of it is made from just fuckass rock that doesn't behave any differently than you'd expect, not this super substance that weighs like a ton per cm^3.
And then they list sandstone with pretty accurate values....
Ngl, this feels like actual grasping, we know what they meant (if only because of sandstone), we see that stuff in game, we even have an actual real example used both there and in game, to draw parallel to.
ALSO, the fact we know the average for the planet
is below, makes this whole argument worthless, the planet by large, is less then.
Yes, Bendezium's atomic weight/molar mass is merely 65.332; there is no unite listed though the default is AMU or g/mol, but that makes me question what its atomic length/volume is?
Man, they list off sandstone, we know what the unit is approximate to...
When trying to argue density, having a calculated atomic weight means little to nothing if there isn't an atomic volume or length to go with it. For example, you listed Titanium having an atomic mass of 47.867, which also as an atomic radius of 147 picometers. No such statement exists for Bendezium; for all we know, it could have an atomic radius that is merely a tenth of what Titanium is; thus a thousand times less volume. An object could have less atomic mass but still overall have far greater density given that the individual atoms could be smaller and thus having more counting numbers per cubic centimeter.
The same thing could be said for things like Brinstone; which honestly, this is actually one thing I could argue against SomebodyData for. He said it was more dense than Bendezium, but we don't actually know that for much of the same reason I argued. Atomic Weight is listed, not atomic length or volume. But it is "Above Average" where as Bendezium is outright referred to as extremely dense. Why they may not prove much, the fact that one has a more extravagant description implies it's more impressive than something simply described as "Above average."
Cordite also could be more or less the same thing as the other alloys where atomic weight is mentioned, not length but to a lesser extent; it's also obviously not the same thing as its real world counterpart. Sandstone, I got no defense and more or less does seem intended to just be regular Sandstone. But we do not know how much of Tallon IV is made of it; there's a big map full of it, but even that's miniscule compared to the rest of the planet.
Dude, we have
sandstone as an actual, listed, example. An entire chunk of the game, is made of it, and then stuff like magmoor (into the crust) made from just rock and stuff and lava. We know the frame of reference they're working on, that shit isn't 1000kg/cm^3, we
see that stuff in game too, Cordite, Bendezium, etc, we see them, break them, etc, they aren't these secret black hole dense objects man.
And the chunk of the map, is like 1/5th the actual planet, it's an GC game, that stuff isn't to scale (as a whole, it's kinda weird), but it's still an abstraction of the planet, as you mentioned below actually.
But all in all, some reasonable concerns here and there, but using those sources means also using the website. Which gives us the radius of Zebes and by extension justifies the high gravity.
No, it doesn't, the website sources MASS, not gravity.
There's a difference.
NOTHING justifies high gravity, you're skipping a step, the mass and radi =/= the gravity. That doesn't support a non-corroborated, non-stated, value stemming from a fancalc.
It's a double edge sword all things considered. Though as said, I still brought up other concerns that could be counterarguments, there is still too much unknown while not other details are shared, there's still not enough to argue against the density given the other details. Having confirmed mass and confirmed diameter just means needing to plug it in
here. Diameter is easy, but you can't plug mass in, only G's. But the lowest number with two decimals to get the 4.8 Trillion Teratons or 4.8*10^27 kg is 954.31. There you go. I know the website is too messy to give us length, but mass is still canon and given to us. But if we ever get our sources fully, this is confirmed all canon and just takes basic math to prove.
"To prove", except you arent proving anything? The gravity isn't stated, the mass and diameter might be canon (maybe), but the gravity is fanon, extra steps taken not found or mentioned anywhere ever, you realize that yes?
Hell, you could even treat this as calc stacking.
Yeah... I am going to have to bluntly agree with SomebodyData here, albeit I also have other side reasons but people are still not going to like the way I say it. But yeah, in game physics are like almost never reliable.
Except when they are. in fact, they almost are always reliable? the engines convey how theyre meant to act? Exceptions exist yeah, but 99% of games ain't a minority.
Hundreds of games have realistic game engines, hell Nintendo themselves have a bunch.
Totk even has 9.8ms^2 gravity, realistic freefall, drop off arcs, and more. They at the very least try.
And most games still get it very close, if not the same, as what they want to convey.
Because especially retro video games and retro inspired video games, almost nothing is ever drawn to scale properly.
And you just rebutted your "a whole chunk of the map tiny" argument. Non-sequitur to physics btw.
It's not just games guilty of this, but comics, cartoons, manga, and Anime as well.
Except they all actively try to convey the gravity they're allegedly apparently meant to have?
Like, ya pick up a Batman comic, ya read it, and oh, maybe there was a scene that was slightly off physics, but that doesn't change the fact the comic works and attempts to convey 1g, and any mess up you wouldn't pick up on really.
That, is not the same as 1000g planets behaving like 1g, having blatant contradictions and contradictory lore, both stated and SHOWN, all for a gravity that isn't even mentioned anywhere.
There's a lot of issues of houses tending to look way bigger on the inside than on the outside, in some cases, everyone looks exactly the same size despite a lot of things that factor height and size difference IRL. Lots of classic 8-Bit aesthetics would portray Danny DeVito and Shaquille O'Neal being the same height. And other cartoony art styles have the opposite issue, where the size of kids and adult difference is grossly exaggerated. Same thing applies for sprites being compared to various landmarks on the overworld which realistically should be having much bigger gaps.
What are you talking about? None of this matters, and is wrong anyway, we aren't talking about NES Metroid, we're talking every game ever and never once at any point do they even hint the thing you're arguing at, despite having numerous ways to do so, and even
literally doing exactly that for other gravity.
But anyway, a programmer's biggest goal is to make a game playable just like it's an animator's job to make an animated scene watchable. Their job is not to be 100% pixel perfect with every little minor detail. But yeah, if Metroid game's portrayed 960 G's 100% realistically, the games would be
Big Rigs Over the Road Racing levels of broken.
it doesn't need to portray it 100% realistically, it just needs to portray it
at all.
We have cutscenes, we have grav suit, we even have actual gravity attacks affecting Sams like nightmare, but no, even just an abstraction or loose convey is to much?
Also dude, this isn't a minor detail, it's a blatant all-encompassing fucky that'd affect the lore, plot, games, and well not that they care, but how we index it. No team goes "hey let's make the planet 1000g", and then do nothing to convey it and act like it doesn't exist, they'd do SOMETHING, they don't, they don't even SAY it has high gravity dude. And if it actually had such high gravity, they'd work around it or implement somehow as that's what ya do when ya establish stuff like that, no different than Samus needing grav to bypass water, or zones being super hot and cold, they'd MAKE it a thing if it actually was one, but when they treat 1g planets and the alleged 1000g planets as the same, we have a issue (it means they literally aren't factoring it in at all, aka, we made it up).
It's very difficult to run at 30 or 60 let alone 240 FPS if the fall after a jump was just something that happens faster than the human eye could blink. Just think about it, would anyone who's not an Angry Video Game Nerd even want to play a game where you can't jump without falling super crazy fast to properly land a single jump?
Just do a slow mo cutscene or some shit, and no, this argument only works if it DOES have high gravity, but you haven't actually proven that, as it stands, it's just one of many, many, absences of any sort of evidence and indication.
Btw, the games do show stuff plummeting or falling due to shifts in gravity and pressure, such as Nightmare, who manips gravity, or Dread's apparent 960g fans. Point is they have ways, you can't chalk up everything you don't like to game mechanics, hell, they'd have done stuff differently from the get-go if it WAS 960g.
There are plenty of games that take place on Earth that ironically have gravity portrayed as 2 or 3 times heavier than Earth's. Likewise, there also exist games that take place on Earth, but gravity is like Moon level based on the physics. Or others are kind of a mix where it has a faster acceleration due to gravity but terminal velocity seems to be much lower than it has any right to be; where you just fall at a static velocity. And as SD said, Prime plays with 2.5x gravity in terms of in game physics; it is not evidence one way or the other. Though some argue it supporting evidence it was meant to be stronger than Earth, but avoids going all out with the 773 and 954 G's respectively to still make it playable. But I just see in game physics as irrelevant either way.
What's with this whataboutism? We're talking about a game, that has a bunch of games, including on newer hardware, none of which even supports the gravity claim, despite actively going out of its way to depict high pressure, gravity, and so on.
And ya know, maybe i'd agree with the Prime thing, if Aether wasnt hospitable by normal humans.
Also, Ceres Space Station having the same in game physics as Zebes in Super Metroid is living proof of how irrelevant in game physics is. Ceres only has like 3% the gravity of Earth, and pretty much anyone could leap over tall buildings in a single leap at that point. Or in my case specifically, I could probably push a fully loaded Big Ring.
What are you talking about? it's a pressurized space station that normal humans live on? Hell, one's even a old man, Samus hands him the Baby in the opening cutscene?
Literally everything you just said here was wrong, are you confusing Ceres with an irl equivalent? Because, don't feel like I need to explain why a space station 100000ly away from the irl moon, ain't the same thing.
But yeah, SD already brought up other examples; now finally. There's the argument that, "Oh but story oriented video games have cutscenes and game mechanics can't apply to that." Actually, that's not entirely true. In a lot of modern video games, we are literally given fully animated cutscenes that use a completely different art style. Where the in game models are just sprites, but the animated cutscenes are often times exactly like an Anime or movie.
So? Except actually, so what? Jesus man we have Other M and that game doesn't convey this at all, or Dread, or Prime, or anything. If other games are bad or behave differently, so what? Metroid can and
has conveyed gravity and pressure, and does it all the time, yet doesn't for what would be the most relevant gravity in the verse, that's never actually mentioned...?
But in the Metroid series or classic Mega Man style games, cutscenes are still things that use flash animations of their in game sprites. And the characters move and jump just like their in game counterparts due to being the same compressed pixels and moving along the video game's physics engine. Which only doubles down the various limitations of game mechanics in the first place.
That, isn't true? Cutscenes in old games don't literally use the in-game engine half the time, they can make them move or jump however they want. Ya dont see Mario in Mario World cutscenes tied to his basic jump do you?
And this doesn't excuse the games like Prime Trilogy that don't adhere to that, and literally DO convey gravity-specific jumps. The VERY 1st thing we see Sam do in Prime, is jump 50ft in 0g.
And then we got Other M, like as a whole, cutscene the game.
And this argument doesn't work because the whole of Fusion exists, and that game despite being 16b, DOES convey pressure and gravity changes when it applies. Man, there's a boss that quite LITERALLY makes grav higher and changes Samus' physics. They can and have taken gravity into account in these very games, whenever we actually know grav is being messed with.
And SM does too, and ZM, with acid/water/etc.
And even outside of game mechanics, it does not argue against my other issue that being a common animation flaw. It is a common trope in animation that we see two crazy fast characters fighting in slow motion, when the rain drops in the background are falling at normal speed.
Except when we don't.
That's a **** up on their end, but, I'd assume, at least in those cases they actually have FEATS of being quick that outweigh the **** up right? Not comparable here.
Or when we see a couple dozen or more episodes passed, when only 5 short minutes pass in canon.
The most infamous time discrepecy in media history, mostly a byproduct of filler, that isn't a issue in the manga it came from, is not a good argument.
And unlike this, they actually show Goku and Freeza move so quickly they vanish and can't be seen a dozen times through that fight, as in, again, not a good example, they actually show and confirm it that it only seems long because they hyper fast, as you'd expect. Not the same as never conveying 960g all while never even saying it.
Animation also can have a lot of similar flaws to games, where not everyone and everything is drawn to scale perfectly. Not to mention being so game breaking in other areas if she could jump so stupid high.
Literally just make the high jump that's in most games tied to gravity, wow that was hard
There are a lot of game characters with Infinite/Immeasurable speed, who don't always use their crazy speed to get places on time, or to travel back in time to save plot important characters.
yeah because theyre all wanked
What is this argument? This has nothing to do with the fact NOT ONE GAME actually conveys any semblance of insane gravity, except maybe Prime? Before immediately proving "nah it's not THAT high, normal humans can function under it".
Really, most Metroid related concerns are tame compared to others out there.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Yeah, that's just a minor knit pick. Really do not even need to discuss anything here. Especially since there are verses taking place on Earth, despite their version of Earth being like 4-B sized or some shit.
So? We aren't talking about random inflated manga planet #69, we're talking Metroid.
Also yeah, sure, and despite that alleged size, they have normal gravity, almost like authors don't think that far ahead and have them work normally (except when they don't, in which they just say the G's
), kinda just goes to show a planet won't always have the alleged gravity, no?
I really got nothing here, other than the fact that anyone who's Tier 8 and above should realistically be bullet proof. But guess what, there are lots of characters consistently planetary, to interstellar, to cosmic tier who get injured by regular bullets quite regularly.
????
But as a side note, you do realize that S&J has showcased, that Samus Aran can literally leap off planetary atmospheres by sheer jumping; particularly with Shinespark.
No, she can't, she can change her movement mid-air, that's always been a thing. She isnt leaping off planetary atmospheres. She's just doing something she can do even in Dread. Also, said planet was 1G, given Joey was fine on it, and the fact a human village of helpless dudes was next to them.
This has absolutely nothing to do with
"Water pressure, is a canon obstacle that hiders Samus, this is the case on both 1g places and the alleged grav places. She needs a canon item to bypass it, the item even mentions it. This isn't just game mechanics, in S&J, Samus flatout states the water pressure makes her to heavy to do stuff like screw attack and move properly, on 1g planet as established by the human village 5 feet away, confirming it as canon".
As SomebodyData did put it, this does at least raise some of the best concerns. But in the end, it just feels like there is just a lot of unknown and speculation at best. But I would not use Mauk and Kreatz as good examples; the former is clearly superhuman and the latter is physically on par with various Space Pirates.
Space Pirates and Kreatz/Mauk have no indication of behaving any differently in Zebes alleged 960g, and basic 1g planets, as we see them fight on both in that same manga.
And then we got shit like Old Bird, who, despite being a chozo, is still so old walking takes time and he uses a cane to move around on 1g planets and can't even jump 10ft on 1g.
And then slap Samus and Pyochi.... You see the problem yeah?
Also, Space Pirates are clearly trained to be drastically superhuman. Especially since they were even founded by those from Zebes and were raised to fight back and wipe out the residents of Zebes. Especially Space Pirates that were named Zebesians for this very reason.
Dude, this aint DBZ, they can't train beyond what they're capable of, and they were explicitly undergoing genetic modification to inhabit Zebes because of how hostile it is, but not for gravity?
Why do they need modification to survive local wildlife and acid and whatever, but apparently just trained to survive 960g that's never mentioned anywhere?
Likewise, Space Pirates as mentioned by SomebodyData, regularly does have access to potent gravity manipulation technologies; such as their ability to form black holes that can rip apart entire planets.
No they don't.
They stole that, they didn't make it, Old Burd is even aghast at the fact and wonders how in the **** they managed to get ahold of something like that.
It's the furthest thing from "regularly" or "normal".
AND, that was with prep, Ridley himself says they were prepping that shit since "the last attack", which according to Gray, was "once, before you came", to Samus, so well over a decade.
And it's based on technology that was literally stolen from the Chozo;
No? They NEVER say that ANYWHERE. The Chozo himself says he doesn't know where they got it from.
who also clearly have invented ways to manipulate Gravity.
The ONLY thing they've shown, is a suit that manipulates one's own gravity when worn, and is treated like some legendary mythical item.
It's exactually what the Gravity Suit does in lore. She manipulates gravity around her using it. And Tallon IV Chozo even described the Gravity Suit as an outdated technology invention iirc.
Just went through a Prime PAL Textdump, they do not. And yes, the ONLY piece of gravity tech they have, is a suit that must be worn.
How does this explain unamped humans being fine on Zebes? Are you actually extrapolating Zebes had a whole planetary gravity neg field that was never mentioned anywhere? That's extreme extrapolation, we don't do that, and even if we did, that'd downgrade every feat anyway because they were done in 1g due to burd tech apparently.
Implying that they have access to even better stuff. At least that's what it said in most of our profiles.
Our profiles wrong af man, they kinda bad. And our profiles, is NOT a canon reliable source.
So there is still merit in to some possibility for people to believe that's what Chozo did enabling the likes of little Samus to survive there.
How? They weren't expecting to adopt her, they wouldn't exactly be ready to asspull a planetary gravity device unless they just so happened to have one lying around that's never talked about, including in open areas mind you.
And it's wrong anyway, we're flatout told the only thing they did was give her Chozo DNA so she COULD survive there.
But we don't know, there's a lot of things Nintendo likes to do to us and keeping things super vague.
Yeah, in like, Zelda, and only for stuff like timeline fuckery and only sometimes, not Metroid where they like to spoonfeed us a whole bunch of lore and data about literally everything (Scan Visor my dude...).
There's ZERO reason why Nintendo wouldn't go "btw 960g lmao", in the dozen places they could have, all while never conveying it, saying it, and showing the exact opposite like a dozen times. That aint some lore, it's just a piece of planet info, something they're 100% willing to give based on the fact the very fact the fancalc exists, is due to that alone.
But still, I am a strong believer in primary canon being primary canon. Which is exactly what NA Metroid Prime Remaster is; if there are holes or contradictions or things that cause more questions than answers, just so beat it. But canon is still canon. So I still am sticking to it. Website might still be unable to check to justify the smaller radius, but it's still valuable for lore facts. And I already explained the issues with the atomic masses that don't have atomic lengths or volumes explained.
Nobody said it wasn't canon, just contradicted, unsupported, and blatantly wrong.
Batman beat the shit out 4-B's unamped barehanded before, it's canon, doesn't mean it ain't wrong, for an example of whataboutism.
This is all something that a combination of you yourself right here, SomebodyData, and me explained. That literally all of this is 100% per headcanon. Whether or not they cared is not too relevant,
It is, if the gravity was not intended, a fact you basically just admitted, and the only way you can get gravity, is due to a fancalc, and everything consistently shows it not being that high, then, it is relevant because it's pure headcanon that's contradicted by canon.
the fact remains that the big numbers for mass is 100% canon, as is the official diameter listed on the website if only we could have access to it. Not to mention, while it can lead to a lot of arbitrariness to take the Trillion Teratons at face value. It's equally arbitrary to downplay the mass of a well intended gas giant that is one of Zebes and Tallon IV's neighbors.
Dude, ALL the values ****** up, they were just yapping. Nobody is downplaying a planet we never actually see or go to. And that's not even stated a gas giant.
And again, don't think you understand the issue. The mass, isn't the issue, it's the blatantly wrong gravity obtained from said mass.
But even more arbitrary than either one of those is overlooking the importance of
canon. At the end of the day, Retro is what developed the OG that is the primary canon and everything else is simply a localized translation that is prone to misinterpretation, mistranslation, or even downright fabrication.
That isn't true though? At all. That isnt how games get made, yeah it can be mistranslated, but, the opposite is also true. Reminder Retro was making a game for a japanese product while trying to have it tie into an existing verse. Why couldn't they have misinterpreted stuff? Mistranslated? Or maybe they weren't aware of pre-existing data and just made up some values? **** if we know but it goes both ways.
Calling the German localization the primary canon would be the same thing as using that Satan awful English dub translation for Metroid Other M as the primary canon.
The eng dub of Other M is only a
bit worse than JPN. Only main difference is Adam is less of a ******' tool, but the problems all still exist.
And why the strawman? Nobody, is calling the German one the main canon, and we've said as much a dozen times.
Lastly is that guidebook that was allegedly the official guidebook for Super Metroid. Yeah, it may have been published by Nintendo as an official strategy guide, but there are also a lot of loopholes with it. It was developed by Ape Inc. Which wasn't even affiliated with Nintendo at the time; so it best it would be about as canon as a Nintendo Power comic or a Prima Strategy Guide for various other games. Yes, our canon policies have always been case by case for stuff like this, and tbh they've always been going back and forth. Some have even argued good points for using them if there are reliable interviewers involved in the making of it. And it's even recommended of the original source gives us little to nothing regarding story or lore. However, on the contrary. It is clearly stated in the canon page that if it contradicts a primary canon material; especially a more recent one that retcons the older information, then the primary canon source will take center stage. So by the very rules of our canon page, it is mandatory to prioritize the Metroid Prime information of this guidebook. Furthermore, the guidebook itself has a lot of issues. Not only is it grossly outdated, but it is an outdated version of an outdated book.
Jesus christ man....
Ape making it doesn't matter, it has canon info, introduced and debuted a bunch of canon info, and had access to canon info which they used. It isn't the same as a old Prima book just yapping, the info they put in, came from Nintendo, hence why random shit like FS-176 is used in the ZM Manga.
And the actual point, is that they very evidently Nintendo sourced values from Zebes, aren't some wacky af hyper inflated values. Arguing retconned, outdated, whatever, missing the point. The point, was, that Zebes very clearly was never intended to be some uranium dense planet and has never been conveyed that way before and SINCE, with active contradictions to it.
Why do I say this? Because according to what SomebodyData has said multiple times iirc, people at the Metroid Database website actually have gotten their hands on a physical copy of this rare illusive book; the most recent version of said book before they stopped being sold in stores entirely. And in the end, there have been lots of changes, new tweaks and new tips in the strategy guide. But the most important change they main as far as the topic of this thread is concerned. Is that
this image does not exist anymore. Or to be specific, the text at the bottom of the page doesn't exist anymore regarding the planetary parameters. Even the "2nd planet from FS-176" statement is no longer up to date entirely. Metroid Prime has it's 5 planets total, and while the exact order can change back and forth, particularly, Bilium is first while Tallon IV is 5th.
It's like Mercury and Jupiter swapped places. But what is commonly consistent is that Zebes is 4th with Twin Tabula being 3rd and Oormine II being 2nd.
Why isn't Tallon IV the 4th for consistent measure? And of my friends even tried to argue that the entire image never existed to begin with and was photoshopped by someone who got permabanned from Twitter back in 2014 or so. But I'm unsure about that; either way, it seems actually finding physical copy and not some pirated digital copy might be the best way to prove anything. But even if it did exist, it wouldn't change our canon rules.
Then post the book?
And no, that'd just be another **** up on Prime's end
wow them ******* up planetary info regarding Zebes, no way...., Zebes being the 2nd planet is canon, and was even stated in ZM Manga.
"No longer up to date entirely".
Reminder, ZM came out
after Prime.
The fact SM stuff said one thing, Prime said diff, then jap stuff again said SM thing, shows a pretty blatant miscommunication. Unless youre about to argue "well the rerelases didnt change it so" as to why it'd somehow go back again (Because they'd even know to change it in the first place?), the ZM manga basically re-rectified it, and if you argue the latter, well cool, just goes to show you how reliable the planet data is if they've changed it 5 times
Which is to say, yeah no, Prime messed up there, every japanese material that shows and talks about it, has it 2nd.
And that last bit, why even talk about that? Prove it? You didnt even show the "updated" scan.
All in all, I can understand concerns for the radius of Zebes validity based on the website that is inaccessible. Though the reasons for the atomic weight without mentioning atomic length/volume are still not objective rebuttals against the width of the planet.
Uh, they never were? They were arguments against it being omega ultra dense. Which, it isnt, we have an idea what the average entails as they give us values giving it a ballpark.
But the primary canon strongly dictates that "4.8 Trillion Teratons" is objectively the most canon description of Zebes mass regardless of logic or realism.
And? Mass =/= Gravity. What's being argued is the gravity.
Also, this post I have been typing for like 7 hours straight + some multitasks here and there regarding conversations or house work stuff. But there are still other things I actually forgot about. Not that any of it would support the whole 954.31 G's; outside if using the official mass from the primary canon of the main games combining it with the backed up lore on the inaccessible website.
Dude, that's support for the mass, NOT gravity, and the website, is effectively the same source, the website for Prime uses the same value as Prime?
But there were quite a few details from Metroid Zero Mission that indicates other facts about Zebes having stronger gravity to an extent; I may research that over the course of the next few days when I am off work, but it will at least be something. And I'll post that next when I can get to it.
Yeah sorry dude, but we're not stalling this for another week.
Nothing in ZM supports it having high gravity.
We see stuff crumble in
cutscenes at a normal rate.
Samus' ship falls and explodes at a normal rate.
The game shows us child Samus on Zebes.
Etc.
Talk about game mechanics and whataboutisms, a fact that doesn't even work for Metroid because they
do convey that stuff in-game, and then talk about canonicity, completely missing the point, and then talk about density ig, while ignoring we know what the average is and have a frame of reference due to sandstone, and then make stuff up to try to explain away the blatant contradictions, which, no man not how this works.
My brother in christ, you didn't show
a single thing supporting high gravity, you even admitted Retro probably had no idea what it entailed, then argued as if they knew.
I like ya dude but wtf do ya want here
the magic word!!) by her SUIT that the Gravity Suit "allows for improved movement in liquid environments", which makes no ******* sense if you say she has no issue in them before. Even if you throw together the world's most ramshackle argument to say she didn't pick it up in this one game the actual function remains, and only makes sense based on my interpretation.
