Metroid - Applying new feats & calculations

[SamanPatou]

After reading the op and the comments (barred everything Dread-related), and it looks clear and clean overall, I honestly didn't expect to see such an order in the progression of the games. Everything here looks solid, also considering the proposals of the past CRTs, so I'm okay with it.

To avoid making the profile too big, we might split it into multiple ones depending on the era, such as everything pre-Prime, Prime and Post-Prime or similar.
I don't think Ridley needs to be split in multiple profiles, some are different beings but they aren't big or relevant enough to deserve a whole file, we just have to divide the content in tabbers and keys.

About Gorea, I'm fine with keeping every planet/star busting and speed stuff as a higher and a possibly.

 

[JJSliderman]

About Gorea, I'm fine with keeping every planet/star busting and speed stuff as a higher and a possibly.

As in, 6-B, possibly 5-B to 4-C?

Or 6-B possibly higher.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

As in, 6-B, possibly 5-B to 4-C?

Or 6-B possibly higher.

I'm thinking 6-B, likely higher personally but it's up to the staff.

 

[Armorchompy]

I would disagree with anything higher than High 6-A for Gorea- for that I do see validity though

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Man, I feel bad for whoever has to format Samus' profiles after this is accepted.

 

[Armorchompy]

Uh, we got one agree, need one more i suppose

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Uh, we got one agree, need one more i suppose

It's big changes so multiple votes be required due to our rules. I know you know this, I'm more so saying this so the thread gets bumped again.

 

[That_moron2]

Agree

 

[Theglassman12]

Looks fine with a glance, but I don't see why Gorea can't have any planetary to star level feats here given how he's treated in the story to threaten the entire galaxy, and is comparable to someone who can withstand nukes to country wide level of destruction.

 

[Armorchompy]

Looks fine with a glance, but I don't see why Gorea can't have any planetary to star level feats here given how he's treated in the story to threaten the entire galaxy, and is comparable to someone who can withstand nukes to country wide level of destruction.

There's no reason he "can't" have them, he just doesn't.

 

[TyphonEX]

OP snip

I'm going to have to disagree with the 6-B calc. The two main arguments are that Samus never moved from her spot near the reactor even as it was about to blow up, and that it was stated she was flying "from the center" of the explosion.

Now, the reason why the first argument is flawed is because she obviously did eventually move from her position as we can see from her flying out from the explosion. The question is when she moved away from the reactor. It was only ever mentioned that Dominion would blow up the reactor in the very last page before the explosion, so I don't see how her not moving away in that exact panel somehow proves that she didn't move until after the explosion hit her. The real reason why is revealed later in the manga, something I will show later in this post.

The reason the second argument is flawed is because that statement doesn't actually prove that Samus was at the center of the explosion while it went off. The word "from" refers to a point in space, not a specific point in both space and time. Thus, it would refer to the place where the explosion occurred, not just the place where the explosion occurred AND the point in time when it occurred. To avoid the "dictionary fallacy", here are some real life examples. Obviously, you can visit the "center" of an explosion after it actually happens (like visiting the center of the hiroshima explosion), so it's not limited to the precise time it happened. This applies going back into the past too. Here, these buildings are talked about existing in the hypocenter before the explosion even took place (look for "Pre-Atomic Bombing Hypocenter Area" in the article, my computer won't let me link to highlight here). Again, the hypocenter is talked about as having information taken on it before the explosion actually took place ("hypocenter information on an orthographic projection of an aerial photograph taken by the U.S. military on July 25, 1945, shortly before the atomic bombing."). Here, two people are said to have lived at the center of an explosion even though this was obviously talking about something before the explosion. ("A married couple who lived at the center of the Wednesday explosion in Evansville). And finally, this article talks about how a soldier had the opportunity of escape "from the blast" even though it involved escaping the area of the blast before the blast actually went off, exactly like Samus almost certainly did (Edit: *just like how Samus almost certainly escaped the area of the epicenter before the reactor actually went off). There are more examples than this but I'd rather not overdo it. Likewise, Samus was at the center of where the explosion would occur, but left it before it actually took place

Now, this isn't just a matter of trying to avoid assumptions either. It actually goes against what we know for Samus to have tanked the explosion. This page implies that Diesel saved them "in the nick of time." Why else would he have said that other than to save them from the explosion before it happened? And Joey is only "slightly burnt" by this despite him suffering way more physical damage from being inside a star, which would be far less heat than tanking country level amounts of heat from a nuclear explosion. This further indicating that he didn't actually tank country level amounts of heat at the center of the explosion with Samus. And if he didn't, why wouldn't Samus follow him and leave as well?

 

[Chariot190]

They explicitly state she's in the heart of the planet, that's where the nuclear generator was, etc.
Samus doesn't move after the position she was in as she falls to the ground, given this extends to as it lights up and the extra statements and context added after.... Assuming she moved any relevant distance goes against basically everything we've been told.
We know she didn't get away as Diesel says he was barely in time and brought the ship to her because he was thinking ahead, but we also know she didn't actually board it. He also makes mention how he previously already boarded the missile onto the ship, if you think they randomly had time to go grab it.
We know it was literally a moment away from exploding while still in that position because we literally see it light up as it's about to explode and she hasn't moved.


Actually looking it over, she takes a few steps after the panel I angsized, so the feat is prob a lil higher. Might go back and do that, prob flatout 6-B for her.

The dudes explicitly state she was pointblank, emerging from the epicenter of the blast and are flatout baffled. (Which honestly should make the intent clear that she's supposed to be facetanking it and arguing otherwise is just jumping through hoops against authorial intent).
Hell Joey himself is a little charred too (which has major implications but like, we're not gonna think about that) but it tells us that nah, they didn't get away or anything, kid barely got on the ship.

If it's angsizing, the dude is shown from two angles, side and front, both of which confirm his location as being above the generator deadcenter, which in turn tells us the center from the generator to Samus.

The rest is just, literally just the blast itself, nothing to argue there, that's the formula we use, if anything it's lowballed, a blast like that would have WAY the **** above 1.3 bars of pressure. But we lowball stuff to avoid inflation. And if it's the fact it's frag, that's just being safe, we don't how bad it was pulped, we can see chunks of land in parts of the blast, but

I'm going to have to disagree with the 6-B calc. The two main arguments are that Samus never moved from her spot near the reactor even as it was about to blow up, and that it was stated she was flying "from the center" of the explosion.

Now, the reason why the first argument is flawed is because she obviously did eventually move from her position as we can see from her flying out from the explosion.

On the ship, the argument is that she like, tanked it? And then did so afterward? Hence why she's coming from the epicenter? We know they didn't escape the blast, so why jump through all these extra hoops to say "yeah she somehow avoided it" (she didnt).

The question is when she moved away from the reactor.

we literally see the thing light up.

It was only ever mentioned that Dominion would blow up the reactor in the very last page before the explosion,

We literally see the thing light up as it's about to explode.

so I don't see how her not moving away in that exact panel somehow proves that she didn't move until after the explosion hit her.

Because it hit her? Like, no matter WHAT you're arguing here, she was hit by it. The best you can argue is in the difference of like 1-2m.

The real reason why is revealed later in the manga, something I will show later in this post.

The reason the second argument is flawed is because that statement doesn't actually prove that Samus was at the center of the explosion while it went off. The word "from" refers to a point in space, not a specific point in both space and time. Thus, it would refer to the place where the explosion occurred, not just the place where the explosion occurred AND the point in time when it occurred. To avoid the "dictionary fallacy", here are some real life examples. Obviously, you can visit the "center" of an explosion after it actually happens (like visiting the center of the hiroshima explosion), so it's not limited to the precise time it happened. This applies going back into the past too. Here, these buildings are talked about existing in the hypocenter before the explosion even took place (look for "Pre-Atomic Bombing Hypocenter Area" in the article, my computer won't let me link to highlight here). Again, the hypocenter is talked about as having information taken on it before the explosion actually took place ("hypocenter information on an orthographic projection of an aerial photograph taken by the U.S. military on July 25, 1945, shortly before the atomic bombing."). Here, two people are said to have lived at the center of an explosion even though this was obviously talking about something before the explosion. ("A married couple who lived at the center of the Wednesday explosion in Evansville). And finally, this article talks about how a soldier had the opportunity of escape "from the blast" even though it involved escaping the area of the blast before the blast actually went off, exactly like Samus almost certainly did. There are more examples than this but I'd rather not overdo it.

Uh, my dude. This is just flatout wrong.


They state she's rising from the epicenter, as it, like, literally still there. ARe you REALLY arguing that "samus moved and avoided the blast completely, but then proceeded to get Diesel to fly the ship back into the center of the blast, while it's still exploding, and then fly up the center of it, just because"?

Yeah, uh, no we aren't doing this.

Likewise, Samus was at the center of where the explosion would occur, but left it before it took place

Dude
She like, literally comes out of the explosion itself. Hell we know even Joey didn't avoid it, his ass was cooked a lil.

Now, this isn't just a matter of trying to avoid assumptions either.

You're actively make more assumptions.

It actually goes against what we know for Samus to have tanked the explosion. This page implies that Diesel saved them "in the nick of time."

He doesn't say that, he actually never uses the word save, he just says he was in the nick of time. Like, all things considered, I don't think he or Joey would be living it without the ship just saying, he at no point says he saved Samus. And like, Samus doesn't even GET IN the ship.... Which, well really there's nothing to argue here, the ship was useless.

Why else would he have said that other than to save them from the explosion before it happened?

Because there's a 10 year old with her? Like the ship obviously wasn't for her, she didn't even get in it. She just ate the blast, literally comes from the center of it, for your argument to have any merit, they would have had to got in, flew across the planet, waited out the blast, except no that didn't happen so that's already wrong. But for argument's sake, avoid the blast, then for some unfathamble reason, go back to the blast, have Samus get out, fly to the epicenter as it's still actively exploding, and then just like, come out of the center for no reason.

And Joey is only "slightly burnt" by this despite him suffering way more physical damage from being inside a star,

Well, duh, Joey obviously got in, based on the fact, he got in, and? That very fact is proof they didn't avoid it. Now it's a tremendous outlier for him, but all the same, they didn't do what you claimed he did.

which would be far less heat than tanking country level amounts of heat from a nuclear explosion.

Not really, depends on the star, they were in the core, of it. Even our sun hits tens of millions of degrees cel, for reference a nuke in the initial moment at the very core isn't even 10x that, or just barely ten times that (can hover around 100,000,000c), of course that happens in a literal instant and the resulting fireball and more is exponentially less below even the core of the sun.

Taking this as an actual argument, you're comparing prolonged sustained exposure to basically peak nuke core temps that could potentially be even higher based on the star vs. higher but the same ballpark for 0.0001 of a second and the actual blast cools rapidly past that. Like, lightning is ludicrously hot, but when struck a person only experiences said heat for such a short timeframe, well if they had to endure it for say, a full second, theyd be vaporized.

This further indicating that he didn't actually tank country level amounts of heat at the center of the explosion with Samus. And if he didn't, why wouldn't Samus follow him and leave as well?

Because obviously he got in the ship and she like, didn't?
Like I'm not even sure what the argument is, she didn't get in, she just ate the blast, and Joey barely got in, which is what the burning is meant to convey, he barely made it, now that dont make much sense because like, he should be ******* dead, but, i aint the author, blame him, it's meant to be a haha funny for him as it is so idc.
And then from there, they explicitly come from the very epicenter of the blast? Samus, of course, ya know, not being in the ship.

Plus thinking about it, how WOULD they do what you said? They were underground? No wonder they come from the epicenter, the only they'd have escaped is if the ship just plowed through like 6000km of mantle and steel, which, it didn't do because they came from the epicenter, or somehow in the infintely short split second as it lights up and about to go boom (we're talking actual thousands of a second to get away at best, probably more akin to millionths given it's a nuclear reactor), and then samus flies the ship and navigates the whole labrynth of the lab, except we know she didn't because they come from the epicenter and she never got in the ship to do that to begin with.

 

[TyphonEX]

I've already explained how Samus "rising from the epicenter of the explosion" doesn't actually mean that she was there at the specific point in time it went off, so read it again. The statement is consistent with Samus escaping the epicenter before the explosion actually occurred.

we literally see the thing light up.

We literally see the thing light up as it's about to explode.

OK? It lit up but it obviously still hadn't exploded yet. In between that time and the time that actual explosion went off Samus got away on the ship. Otherwise Diesel saying he and Joey got there "in the nick of time" is pointless.

but we also know she didn't actually board it...

What? She is literally on the ship right here. She's not inside but we can see she traveled on it nonetheless.

ARe you REALLY arguing that "samus moved and avoided the blast completely, but then proceeded to get Diesel to fly the ship back into the center of the blast, while it's still exploding, and then fly up the center of it, just because"?

...No? What I'm saying is that Diesel drove the ship in (because there were huge corridors that Samus used to travel to the reactor) at the last moments before the reactor went off, and they got on/in the ship to begin escaping from the center of the explosion before the reactor went off. Yeah, they were still in the explosion, but nowhere near the center when they were hit by it. I have to admit my phrasing about someone escaping a blast "exactly like Samus" is kind of bad, I'll edit it to clarify. I am not claiming she escaped the explosion entirely before it went off, just that the escaped the center before it went off.

he just says he was in the nick of time. Like, all things considered, I don't think he or Joey would be living it without the ship just saying, he at no point says he saved Samus. And like, Samus doesn't even GET IN the ship.... Which, well really there's nothing to argue here, the ship was useless.

"In the nick of time" means "at the last possible moment." What else could this last possible moment be other than the last possible moment before the reactor blew up? You seem to accept that Joey got in, but you claim that Samus just stayed behind for no reason whatsoever???? And then suddenly appeared here for no reason whatsoever????

Not really, depends on the star, they were in the core, of it.

Tanking the heat at the core of the Sun has already been calced at being far below country level. There's a country level value above it, but even that value is 10 times less than what Joey would've tanked had he stayed at the center. Plus, the section i linked to makes it clear that the maximum amount of energy an object would take in is far below that at MCB. Unless you want to argue that the star they were in the core of was over 10 billion times hotter than our Sun?

 

[Armorchompy]

I've already explained how Samus "rising from the epicenter of the explosion" doesn't actually mean that she was there at the specific point in time it went off, so read it again. The statement is consistent with Samus escaping the epicenter before the explosion actually occurred.

...No? What I'm saying is that Diesel drove the ship in (because there were huge corridors that Samus used to travel to the reactor) at the last moments before the reactor went off, and they got on/in the ship to begin escaping from the center of the explosion before the reactor went off. Yeah, they were still in the explosion, but nowhere near the center when they were hit by it. I have to admit my phrasing about someone escaping a blast "exactly like Samus" is kind of bad, I'll edit it to clarify. I am not claiming she escaped the explosion entirely before it went off, just that the escaped the center before it went off.

I think the idea that they chose to go back into the explosion after escaping the initial blast is ludicrous (literally why would they ever do that?) and based on semantics, and given the explosion was still ongoing, it's still a Low 6-B feat anyways (or higher, if you take the statement 100% literally).

What? She is literally on the ship right here. She's not inside but we can see she traveled on it nonetheless.

... And the ship also tanked the explosion.

"In the nick of time" means "at the last possible moment." What else could this last possible moment be other than the last possible moment before the reactor blew up? You seem to accept that Joey got in, but you claim that Samus just stayed behind for no reason whatsoever???? And then suddenly appeared here for no reason whatsoever????

She didn't stay behind, she was on top of it, and therefore took it. Joey and Diesel didn't because they were in the ship, she was on the ship's roof and did. It's not like she could have gotten inside with that big ass rocket.

Tanking the heat at the core of the Sun has already been calced at being far below country level. There's a country level value above it but the section i linked to makes it clear that the maximum amount of energy an object would take in is far below that. Unless you want to argue that the star they were in the core of was 100 million times hotter than our Sun?

That's not how it works. Being in a 6-B explosion doesn't expose you to "6-B heat", whatever that means, in the same way that being in a High 6-A sun doesn't expose you to that much. Factor in the fact that the explosion's heat would not be that high for more than a fraction of a second, and being exposed to the star's is 100% the more impressive of the two.

 

[Chariot190]

OK? It lit up but it obviously still hadn't exploded yet. In between that time and the time that actual explosion went off Samus got away on the ship. Otherwise Diesel saying he and Joey got there "in the nick of time" is pointless.

It's a nuclear reactor, we're talking literally tens of thousandths of a second here.


Like, it isn't just glowing, we even see it stuff rise off it, this isn't just some delayed bomb or they have a few seconds, this is a straight up nuclear reactor in the process of exploding. Honestly the fact Joey could even get on is a ridiculous speed feat in this window of time.

She didn't get away, she's on the ship, she emerged from the epicenter, they say this, there is no getting away.
Diesel saying it, well, again, Joey exists, he even says this in the panel that points out he's a lil cooked as a funny.

How is it pointless? He did get there in time, he didn't do anything to save Samus, of course not, she didn't even get on the ship, hell she's flatout engulfed by the blast, but he sure did save Joey, so.... Why wouldn't he have been in the nick of time? I'm not gonna get into linguistics between the actual raw and the fantranslation but all the same.

What? She is literally on the ship right here. She's not inside but we can see she traveled on it nonetheless.

Yeah...? After it exploded? After they say she came from the epicenter?

...No? What I'm saying is that Diesel drove the ship in (because there were huge corridors that Samus used to travel to the reactor)

Exactly, he went to them, she didn't go to him, she didn't move any relevant distance that we can ascertain without just yapping or guessing, guesswork we shouldn't even be doing because it makes no sense.

at the last moments before the reactor went off, and they got on/in the ship to begin escaping from the center of the explosion before the reactor went off.

except, no, because they flat out state they came from the center of the explosion, so no, they didn't go away from the center.
In fact, Dominion goons explicitly note she's "rising" from it, she isn't coming from any other axis or direction, the ship is simply going straight up.
From the epicenter.
Where they were.

Again, the reactor was already going off, you're making multiple assumptions when not only are we told otherwise, but we flatout now they didn't go any relevant distance, if they did, they would never have mentioned here being in the center still if the intent of the scene was "oh they actually got super far away and stuff still". That'd make no sense even from just a writing standpoint, it'd be an explicit specification that only serves to tell us she was pointblank, yet actually no that's wrong? Why even say it then? What purpose does that line serve to us the audience?

Yeah, they were still in the explosion, but nowhere near the center when they were hit by it.

You're flat out wrong. They say she was, there's no debate to be had.
So, they're in the explosion, didn't get hit pointblank, but went back to the center after just because?

I mean let's be real, ISL shouldn't even be applied, we do it because of standards, but 99% of manga authors don't even realize that's a thing. The intent of the feat is just "yo samus tanks big explosion lmao", bro wasn't thinking about all these caveats. So to argue, in reality, they jumped through all these hoops, and then just so happened to go back is a tad much, when the actual fact of the matter is, the author absolutely didn't think of any of that while writing.

I have to admit my phrasing about someone escaping a blast "exactly like Samus" is kind of bad, I'll edit it to clarify. I am not claiming she escaped the explosion entirely before it went off, just that the escaped the center before it went off.

Except that's wrong because they state she came from the center.

"In the nick of time" means "at the last possible moment." What else could this last possible moment be other than the last possible moment before the reactor blew up? You seem to accept that Joey got in, but you claim that Samus just stayed behind for no reason whatsoever???? And then suddenly appeared here for no reason whatsoever????

Sigh. The argument is Samus and the ship didn't take off and randomly zip through an entire lab to get any relevant distance away, that'd be impossible, they didn't have time to as you literally just clarified. If he got there in the nick of time, that says nothing about escaping, that's an extra assumption you're tacking on, something they don't say.
Samus was never left behind, they never left that spot to begin with.
She didn't suddenly appear, she obv got on the ship, but if the ship didn't move from where she was located, none of this matters. Like honestly, yeah she might've moved a bit (though given the reactor a sphere as long as she only moved up or sideways, like say Diesel showed up next to her and she hopped on, the value wouldn't change), but she didn't move any relevant distance to say the feat isn't 6-Bish, if anything, I lowballed it, by a decent amount by mistake as I missed some enviromental cues.

We know they didn't move, because they explicitly state she's coming from the center of the blast, ie, the epicenter, ie, where they were, and rising up along that axis. And that was well after the blast was underway.

Tanking the heat at the core of the Sun has already been calced at being far below country level. There's a country level value above it but the section i linked to makes it clear that the maximum amount of energy an object would take in is far below that. Unless you want to argue that the star they were in the core of was 100 million times hotter than our Sun?

Not how we do this on this wiki, it can be a feat, but we've long since split temp based tanking and the likes of kinetic, force, pressure and so on.

I don't really have anything to say except, a nuke isn't even town level because of its heat, but the fact it's a huge explosion and shockwave? the heat itself in a nuke, is, like idk, High 8-C? This nuke in the feat isn't 6-Anything because of its heat, the heat literally isn't even factored into the calc at all, but rather because of the blast wave, the pressure, the force, that's what's being calced. And the heat, all the same, just like any other nuke, would only last less than a thousandth of a second before rapidly cooling to far below sun temps.

This is a non-argument, and also doesn't effect the actual context or specifics of the nuke scene. It not aligning with potential feats or anti-feats, doesn't change what happened, it'd just make it inconsistent. But.... Inconsistent with Joey (for the sake of a gag mind you), isn't the same as Samus, whom has the Varia Suit here, while in the sun feat she had only Power Suit, which lacks the protective heat shielding this suit does.

The entire crux of your argument, is simply extra assumptions, and ignoring the impossibility of it all. Do you really think Diesel, whom barely GOT THERE in time, as it was already in the process of detonating, somehow got them any relevant distance away? Samus didn't board it so they can't rely on her innate speed to zip through the corridors while piloting. The ship didn't smash through the mantle itself, that's a ridiculous extra assertion that was never even implied. And to top it all off, the manga explicitly states, she's coming up from the center, while literally engulfed in the blast, yet we're supposedly meant to think "no they arent actually at the center, they just went BACK to afterward"?

 

[TyphonEX]

I think the idea that they chose to go back into the explosion after escaping the initial blast is ludicrous (literally why would they ever do that?) and based on semantics, and given the explosion was still ongoing, it's still a Low 6-B feat anyways (or higher, if you take the statement 100% literally).

Fortunately I'm not claiming that they chose to go back into the explosion. I'm claiming that, like Joey described, Diesel drove the ship to their location, and then they escaped the future epicenter of the explosion, all of that happening before the explosion. Thus, when the explosion hit them, they were far enough away that they didn't have to tank 6-B explosive energies.

... And the ship also tanked the explosion.

...Because it was far away. Why else would Diesel and Joey have said that they got there in the nick of time? "In the nick of time" before what else other than the explosion?

She didn't stay behind, she was on top of it, and therefore took it. Joey and Diesel didn't because they were in the ship, she was on the ship's roof and did. It's not like she could have gotten inside with that big ass rocket.

You're right, she didn't stay behind. That means she did not tank the explosion at the same spot she was here. And yes, she and the ship both "took it" but she was some unspecified distance from the center of the explosion due to them flying away, thus reducing the portion of the explosion she would've had to tank.

That's not how it works. Being in a 6-B explosion doesn't expose you to "6-B heat", whatever that means

The calc claims that Samus, after accounting for the inverse square law, tanked a Low 6-B portion of the explosion. Due to the nature of nuclear explosions (which this seems to have been), a large portion of it would've had to have been thermal energy. Even if it was just 1% (which is a lowball considering the energy proportions of nuclear explosions) that would be island level amounts of thermal energy, far more than that which you'd tank in the core of the Sun (already calced to be MCB)

 

[Chariot190]

Fortunately I'm not claiming that they chose to go back into the explosion. I'm claiming that, like Joey described, Diesel drove the ship to their location, and then they escaped the future epicenter of the explosion, all of that happening before the explosion. Thus, when the explosion hit them, they were far enough away that they didn't have to tank 6-B explosive energies.

Except, they never state they got away.
Joey didn't describe escaping the blast or center.
They explicitly note they were in the center.

The calc claims that Samus, after accounting for the inverse square law, tanked a Low 6-B portion of the explosion. Due to the nature of nuclear explosions (which this seems to have been), a large portion of it would've had to have been thermal energy. Even if it was just 1% (which is a lowball considering the energy proportions of nuclear explosions) that would be island level amounts of thermal energy, far more than that which you'd tank in the core of the Sun (already calced to be MCB)

That isn't how the formula works....

Like man, you realize they say they're in the center right. When every argument you have says stuff like they werent in the center yet the manga says nuh uh, they were, what do you want? There's no debate here.

For what you're saying to be true they would have HAD to have gone back to the center of the blast just because, because fact of the matter is, that's where they emerge from, there's no way to argue this, saying otherwise is objectively wrong. If you're saying they didn't go back, that means they never left at all, you can't have both.

 

[TyphonEX]

Like, it isn't just glowing, we even see it stuff rise off it, this isn't just some delayed bomb or they have a few seconds, this is a straight up nuclear reactor in the process of exploding. Honestly the fact Joey could even get on is a ridiculous speed feat in this window of time.

Please prove that this means that the reactor will explode in a fraction of a second.

Except that's wrong because they state she came from the center.

She came from the center, but she left the center before the explosion happened. I've explained this already in my first post in this thread. It's quite obvious that they were in the center, but you need to prove that they were in the center not just before the explosion went off, but DURING the actual explosion

yet we're supposedly meant to think "no they arent actually at the center, they just went BACK to afterward"?

I've already explained that this wasn't what I was claiming multiple times...

If you're saying they didn't go back, that means they never left at all, you can't have both.

No, they left the place that would eventually be the center of the explosion, which is the same as them leaving the center of the explosion. I've already given multiple examples of this. Here, Americans are said to have scanned the hypocenter of an explosion before it even went off. Likewise, Samus was at the center of the explosion and left it before it even went off.

 

[Chariot190]

Please prove that this means that the reactor will explode in a fraction of a second.

It's a nuclear reactor literally mid-detonation?


What do you think it's meant to convey? A nuclear reactor, a real thing mind you that we have irl just on a far smaller scale, lighting up, cascading high contrast, what looks to be it already in the process of exploding based on the effect lines coming off it, and you're asking me why an explosive, mid-detonation would occur in such a timeframe?
That's like, just how explosives work man, idk what to tell you. Honestly given the scale of explosive we dealing with, it'd probably be more like 1/100000th of a second but I'm just sticking with low-end ones.

This does not mean that she was at the epicenter at the precise moment the explosion went off. I've already explained why this is in my first post in this thread.

Yes and by that logic they just so happened to 180 back around to the center after the fact just because while also moving through the maze-like lab and all in some ridiculously impossible timeframe....

They never once state they left or went anywhere, the actual text in the manga implicates they did not. You're making assumptions because Diesel said he got there in time, yet assuming extra stuff they never claim, in that "in time" meant escaping, as opposed to just saving Joey or something, which we can safely deem your conclusion false, as additional context given afterward makes it clear that isn't what occured.

She came from the center, but she left the center before the explosion happened.

They never state that, they never show that, you're arguing they left, then went back into it, which is ridiculous.

I've explained this already in my first post in this thread.

As above.

It's quite obvious that they were in the center, but you need to prove that they were in the center not just before the explosion went off, but DURING the actual explosion

The fact they were there while it was still literally exploding and they emerge from the hyper massive blast as it's expanding with it being stated they're coming up from the epicenter, is literally all the proof anyone needs. It's on you to prove they left to begin with and just so happened to go back for the following statements to still hold true.

I've already explained that this wasn't what I was claiming multiple times...

It doesn't matter if that isn't what you're claiming when your claims by proxy force that to need to be true.

I'm like, not gonna be doing this back and forth, if that's all you've had to say, I'm sure others can read the back and forth and decide from there, if you disagree all the same, that's fine, you can just be slapped under disagree ig.

 

[Armorchompy]

Fortunately I'm not claiming that they chose to go back into the explosion. I'm claiming that, like Joey described, Diesel drove the ship to their location, and then they escaped the future epicenter of the explosion, all of that happening before the explosion. Thus, when the explosion hit them, they were far enough away that they didn't have to tank 6-B explosive energies.

She came from the center, but she left the center before the explosion happened. I've explained this already in my first post in this thread. It's quite obvious that they were in the center, but you need to prove that they were in the center not just before the explosion went off, but DURING the actual explosion

You're right, she didn't stay behind. That means she did not tank the explosion at the same spot she was here. And yes, she and the ship both "took it" but she was some unspecified distance from the center of the explosion due to them flying away, thus reducing the portion of the explosion she would've had to tank.

Yeah you're just like, making things up, I'm sorry.

...Because it was far away. Why else would Diesel and Joey have said that they got there in the nick of time? "In the nick of time" before what else other than the explosion?

The ship did get there before the explosion hit the two, but we know that by the time Joey got in the ship the explosion was already onto the ship since he got burned a bit, so with Samus choosing to get onto the ship, she had to have tanked it there and then. Like unless you're saying Joey poked his head out for ***** and giggles or that they started driving away with the ship's door open rather than getting him to safety, that's the only interval of time in which he could have been burnt.

The calc claims that Samus, after accounting for the inverse square law, tanked a Low 6-B portion of the explosion. Due to the nature of nuclear explosions (which this seems to have been), a large portion of it would've had to have been thermal energy. Even if it was just 1% (which is a lowball considering the energy proportions of nuclear explosions) that would be island level amounts of thermal energy, far more than that which you'd tank in the core of the Sun (already calced to be MCB)

Sure, fair enough, so? Joey obviously didn't take the full explosion either way, given he's not tier 6 (or tier ANYTHING- even if they were kilometers away from the explosion his ass would die from the sheer AP AND the heat), he just got grazed somehow because the mangaka wanted to imply he just barely avoided death.

Please prove that this means that the reactor will explode in a fraction of a second.

It's not "it will explode" it's "it's literally in the middle of exploding already"

 

[TyphonEX]

lighting up, cascading high contrast, what looks to be it already in the process of exploding based on the effect lines coming off it

If it's mid detonation, why is it still intact??? You even say that it only "looks to be" in the process of exploding, that's just your opinion.

you're arguing they left, then went back into it, which is ridiculous.

How many times do I have to tell you that that's not what I'm arguing? What I'm arguing is that they left the center of the explosion before it happened. Nothing about returning to it. To be even more clear, they left the center of the explosion before it happened and never returned to it. She was at the center of the explosion, but only BEFORE the actual explosion itself.

when your claims by proxy force that to need to be true.

No, they absolutely do not. Her being at the center of the explosion does not necessitate that she was at the center of the explosion at any point in time from the actual explosion itself to any point in the future. Her being at the center of the explosion is perfectly consistent with her ONLY being at the center of the explosion BEFORE the explosion went off.

 

[TyphonEX]

It's not "it will explode" it's "it's literally in the middle of exploding already"

Idk man, an almost fully-intact reactor does not look like something "in the middle of exploding already."

but we know that by the time Joey got in the ship the explosion was already onto the ship since he got burned a bit, so with Samus choosing to get onto the ship, she had to have tanked it there and then. Like unless you're saying Joey poked his head out for ***** and giggles or that they started driving away with the ship's door open rather than getting him to safety, that's the only interval of time in which he could have been burnt.

No, that just means that the explosion burned through the ship. The idea that heat would burn all the way to the inside of the ship isn't unprecedented either, as we see it happen here. It was damaged afterwards after all. Also, your argument hinges on the idea that Samus was outside of the ship and simply riding on top of it the entire time, which is not proven. We don't know whether she was inside the ship and then proceeded to get on top of it or was on top of it the whole time.

Yeah you're just like, making things up, I'm sorry.

You're also kind of making up the idea that they didn't escape until AFTER the explosion. The fact that they flew away from the center is undeniable, the point of contention is WHEN they did it. I'm claiming that they flew away BEFORE the explosion.

 

[Chariot190]

If it's mid detonation, why is it still intact??? You even say that it only "looks to be" in the process of exploding, that's just your opinion.

Because the blastwave propagates through the outershell? Hell assuming it's like a 15m shell, that window of time is only 0.00045 seconds.
And yeah, it looks to be, what do you think is happening there? Nuclear reactors don't do that unless it's literally exploding.

How many times do I have to tell you that that's not what I'm arguing?

It doesn't matter, your argument means that has to be the case.

What I'm arguing is that they left the center of the explosion before it happened. Nothing about returning to it. To be even more clear, they left the center of the explosion before it happened and never returned to it. She was at the center of the explosion, but only BEFORE the actual explosion itself.

That is literally all wrong,


See this? They state she's coming from the center of the explosion, for them to have moved away from it before it went off, it in turn means for this statement to be true, they'd have had to go back. That's extra presumptions, unfathamble ones at that, all for something they don't actually state.

You mentioned making less assumptions, but you're making more, going against what they actually state, creating paradoxical situations, all based on a preconceived notion.


This is worded as present tense, as he speaks, she, the object, the ship, are, at that very moment, rising up and emerging from the center. His lil thingy even goes beep beep, and alerts him to it, they're talking about what's happening at that very instance. Why would they be talking about an object coming from the center if it isn't from the center? He obviously wasn't talking about Samus, and where she USED to be, they thought they got her, it's why he calls it an object, it's a UFO, they don't know till she comes into view.

Also, your argument hinges on the idea that Samus was outside of the ship and simply riding on top of it the entire time, which is not proven. We don't know whether she was inside the ship and then proceeded to get on top of it or was on top of it the whole time.

"she got in, then got out while inside of a literal nuke blast wave, hopped on".
The blast would promptly proceed to evaporate Diesel and wash out the interior of the ship.

Also, making assumptions.

The idea that heat would burn all the way to the inside of the ship isn't unprecedented either, as we see it happen here. It was damaged afterwards after all.

As established, a nuke is only sun core temps for less than 1/10000th of a second, it took prolong exposure in the core to be damaged.

This is like wondering why a person can survive being struck by a lightning bolt, or even a flashbang, yet even 1 second of either would flat out vaporize or kill someone.

Her being at the center of the explosion does not necessitate that she was at the center of the explosion at any point in time from the actual explosion itself to any point in the future.

I wish they made frug a real emoji.

Her being at the center of the explosion is perfectly consistent with her ONLY being at the center of the explosion BEFORE the explosion went off.

That's, that's literally wrong, sorry.
They say she, the object, is coming from the center of the explosion. As in, at the very moment, there's something in the center coming up, and we see it's Samus and the ship.

Not replying anymore unless you bring something new up.

 

[Armorchompy]

Idk man, an almost fully-intact reactor does not look like something "in the middle of exploding already."

I guess they just forgot to get rid of all the glitter after bring your child to work day, and that's why it's all shiny? It's definitely exploding, glowing is a shorthand for it, not debating this further.

No, that just means that the explosion burned through the ship. The idea that heat would burn all the way to the inside of the ship isn't unprecedented either, as we see it happen here. It was damaged afterwards after all. Also, your argument hinges on the idea that Samus was outside of the ship and simply riding on top of it the entire time, which is not proven. We don't know whether she was inside the ship and then proceeded to get on top of it or was on top of it the whole time.

Except that:

1. In the star feat we see the ship breaking down (and it's even a plot point in the chapter after that it took so much damage it stops working), whereas here it's fully intact minus a few superficial marks, it flew them home just fine (Having to do repairs doesn't at all imply it took such great damage, even just the hull being compromised a little bit is more than enough reason to do them)
2. ONLY Joey is burnt, Diesel's fine, the inside of the ship is fine, it's just him, wonder why!
3. Samus was absolutely outside the ship the whole time because she was carrying the big ass missile, which doesn't fit inside the ship. Unless you're claiming that while inside the explosion they parked the ship, opened its door, let Samus hop out, pick up a 6-B missile, hop back on, and then fly away, it makes no sense.

I think this debate has gone on for too long given the quality of your arguments. Unless you manage to gain any real support, I'm just gonna apply the thread in a day or two.

 

[TyphonEX]

And yeah, it looks to be, what do you think is happening there? Nuclear reactors don't do that unless it's literally exploding.

That it's producing a lot of energy, not exploding? Nuclear reactors glow in real life without exploding.

They say she, the object, is coming from the center of the explosion. As in, at the very moment, there's something in the center coming up, and we see it's Samus and the ship.

No, it doesn't. As I've explained numerous times here, her being at the center of the explosion does not mean that she was at the center of the explosion at the same time that the explosion went off. The "center of the explosion" is nothing more than the point in space where the explosion went off at some point in time. You can be at the center of the explosion before the explosion even happens.

As in, at the very moment, there's something in the center coming up, and we see it's Samus and the ship.

No, "from" only indicates that the object started moving at the center of the explosion, not that they're there "at the very moment." The object could've started moving in the past. If I'm "flying from Italy", that doesn't mean I'm currently at Italy.

 

[TyphonEX]

It's definitely exploding, glowing is a shorthand for it, not debating this further.

Dude, you do realize that real nuclear reactors glow without exploding, right?

the inside of the ship is fine

No proof of that. Sure it works, but that doesn't mean it wasn't affected or damaged by the heat.

Diesel's fine

That doesn't prove anything. What are you even claiming happened in the first place? You said that "Joey obviously didn't take the full explosion either way, given he's not tier 6 (or tier ANYTHING- even if they were kilometers away from the explosion his ass would die from the sheer AP AND the heat), he just got grazed somehow because the mangaka wanted to imply he just barely avoided death." Was he inside the ship when the explosion hit or not? Was the door partially open? Some of what you said seems to imply that he managed to get in the ship but got hit by a small portion of the energy (only a small portion since the ship shielded him), causing him to be "a little burnt." On the other hand, unless I'm misunderstanding, this argument you're putting out seems to imply that he wasn't actually inside the ship, otherwise he would've stayed unburnt like Diesel.

 

[TyphonEX]

@TheRustyOne @Jasonsith @DMUA @AKM sama @Wokistan @Mr. Bambu @Migue79 @Deagonx @DarkDragonMedeus What do you think?

 

[SeijiSetto]

@TheRustyOne @Jasonsith @DMUA @AKM sama @Wokistan @Mr. Bambu @Migue79 @Deagonx @DarkDragonMedeus What do you think?

blue names can't ping staff, if you want them to look at it you have to go post it on their walls and ask them to look

for the record i think armor and chariot make far more sense. she got hit by the explosion. that's very clearly what's happening to me, she's standing there as it's lighting up to detonate and she's stated to be rising from it after, joey is even a little burnt.

 

[TyphonEX]

blue names can't ping staff, if you want them to look at it you have to go post it on their walls and ask them to look

for the record i think armor and chariot make far more sense. she got hit by the explosion. that's very clearly what's happening to me, she's standing there as it's lighting up to detonate and she's stated to be rising from it after, joey is even a little burnt.

Yeah she got hit, the issue is that the page where Diesel said he got there "in the nick of time" implies that Diesel got there at the last moment and saved them.

Additionally, Joey being a little burnt kinda implies that he wasn't near the center considering the fact that without using his gadgets (which don't seem to cover his whole body from the back, which the explosion would hit), he seems to have nowhere near the durability necessary to tank being at the center of this blast. This is something that Armor pointed out. He would've had to have been far away from the center of the explosion.

It can't have been the ship shielding him from the center of the blast either considering the fact that the same ship got destroyed by a crash far below small country level (the amount of energy it'd have to tank there). Even if we assume that the ship weighs as much as 10 blue whales and was going at full speed in the crash (130% of 2325039.414780527774069547 m/s or 3022551.23921 m/s according to this post), that still means it got destroyed by a crash far weaker than the portion of the explosion it'd have to tank to shield Joey from it. Samus also points out that this burst of lava/flame that is obviously far below country level would've destroyed her ship along with her (she didn't have her varia suit). The only way Joey could've survived this is by having the ship fly him far away from the center of the explosion before it happened. This would of course also mean that Samus was far away from the center of the explosion before it happened too, since she was riding in/on top of it with them.

Also, I decided to add something to this conversation that I hadn't before: I realized that arguing the semantics of the fantranslation is pointless, so I put the original Japanese text ("僕心点より上昇してくる物体があります") through a couple different translators. All of them except for DeepL translated it along the lines of "There is an object that rises above the center point." This does not indicate that she was at the center of the explosion when it happened.

 

[Chariot190]

That it's producing a lot of energy, not exploding? Nuclear reactors glow in real life without exploding.

They also dont light up the whole room like a flashbang unless shit is super wrong.
That, isn't just glowing.
Also, the onomotepia in that panel as it's blatantly detonating. If, I'm not wrong, we're looking at "gogogogo" and "don", the former represents a heavy rumbling sound (or a foreboding but given the actual shaking, it's the former). Don typically represents a loud sound, often used for something like a heavy impact (think like a heavy weight or meteor), or an explosive force. So... Well really not much left to say (And cherry on top, the actual explosion uses the same sfx).

And, why would it do that if it's producing energy? It was already doing that? It's a nuclear reactor, it only does that because bro set it to explode, and, well it does, that's what it's doing. Doesn't help the next panel is the blast.

No, it doesn't. As I've explained numerous times here,

Your explanations aren't sufficient.

her being at the center of the explosion does not mean that she was at the center of the explosion at the same time that the explosion went off.

It does unless she magically 180'd back there. You're arguing Diesel, in a fraction of a second, smashed through the mantle and core (assumption and honestly would be like tier 6 anyway too) or flew through the maze-like lab that's ludicrously big (yet he apparently barely got in there time yet had all this extra time to escape), all for them to 180 back into the center in order for the statement in the following seconds to be true.

The statement enforces where they where when it exploded.

I don't care if that isn't your argument, that's what your argument entails, like, it isn't what you're directly saying, but for what you're saying to have merit or be true, that must also be true, yet if that's wrong, then by association...

The "center of the explosion" is nothing more than the point in space where the explosion went off at some point in time.

Correct, and where they're emerging from as well, the point in time mind you, is then and there.
Like the explosion doesn't even finish, we don't even see the full of it because it changes focus to her as she emerges from the blast.

You can be at the center of the explosion before the explosion even happens.

Indeed, they were, the key factor here though, is they were at the center even after it went off, aka, they didn't move.

No, "from" only indicates that the object started moving at the center of the explosion,

Incorrect.
In the phrase "rising from the center of the explosion," "from" indicates the point of origin where the object begins its upward movement, indeed, yet, it specifies that the object is emerging from the central point of the explosion, highlighting where it is at that very instant.
You're arguing beforehand, but that'd be linguistically wrong, as under your premise, there was no explosion when they began moving, not withstanding the dude who says this line wouldn't know that, the specification it's from the explosion, tells us, well, that's where she is.

"?! THERE'S AN OBJECT RISING FROM THE CENTER OF THE EXPLOSION!" - Dude #69.
Let's actually break it down.

1. The two secret Unowns.​

• Bro leads with "?!". This indicates both surprise and disbelief, suggesting that he is shocked by what they're witnessing, something he simply didn't account for, think would happen, and is stunned.
• The exclamation mark at the end of the sentence further emphasizes he's alrmed or panicked.

2. words fr this time​

• "THERE'S": This contraction of "there is" is used to indicate the presence or existence of something.
• "AN OBJECT": The term "object" is intentionally vague, reflecting the uncertainty or lack of information about what exactly they seeing. It's something tangible, but its nature is unclear to him, which is to say, he doesn't know it's Samus, so why would he be saying "Oh Samus WAS at the center, but now she isn't", he doesn't know WHAT it is, it could be one of the billion aliens for all he knows, a weapon, who knows, just something is there and coming.
• "RISING": This verb indicates upward movement. The choice of the word "rising" suggests that the object is not just moving, but specifically moving upwards from a lower position, in this case, from the center of an explosion. This is also present tense, indicating the sentence isn't talking about the past, but what is happening now. If it was different tense, say past, it'd be "rose" or something.
• "FROM THE CENTER OF THE EXPLOSION": This phrase provides the context and location of the object’s emergence. It situates the event within the center of the blast. This is worded present tense as well, compounded by the fact in that very scene, the explosion is ongoing, to rise from the center, means they're in the center, as the rising only began after the blast was underway, as that's when he was made aware of it. It's followed by Samus emerging from the blast as well.

3. structure ig​

• The sentence follows a straightforward Subject-Verb-Object (SVO) structure. The subject is "an object," the verb is "rising," and the prepositional phrase "from the center of the explosion" modifies the verb, telling us where the action is taking place.
• The structure is clear and direct, matching the urgency of the situation. There are no extraneous words, which helps maintain the focus on the key event: the unexpected emergence of an object (Samus) from an explosion's center.

4. yap​

• The combination of punctuation and vague word choice indicates that blud is caught off guard. They were not expecting anything to come from the explosion, let alone something rising from its center, if so, how would he ever be referring to "the center" as where Samus was? Why would he? He doesn't know what it is, why callback to Samus' locale?
• Given we know what's happening, that a large nuke went off, and we know the object is Samus, we can ascertain that the scientist is talking about, even if he isn't initially aware of it, of Samus, coming up from the center of the blast. This tells us where she is, what she's doing, and from what she's emerging from.

In summary, nuh uh, if you're gonna play the linguistics game, you're actively wrong on this front, if they wanted to say what you're talking about, they would use completely different wording.

not that they're there "at the very moment." The object could've started moving in the past. If I'm "flying from Italy", that doesn't mean I'm currently at Italy.

If I said "yo holy shit, he's flying up from the center of italy", and we're over italy, and you're flying up from the center of italy. You would be in Italy yeah.

That doesn't prove anything. What are you even claiming happened in the first place? You said that "Joey obviously didn't take the full explosion either way, given he's not tier 6 (or tier ANYTHING- even if they were kilometers away from the explosion his ass would die from the sheer AP AND the heat), he just got grazed somehow because the mangaka wanted to imply he just barely avoided death." Was he inside the ship when the explosion hit or not? Was the door partially open? Some of what you said seems to imply that he managed to get in the ship but got hit by a small portion of the energy (only a small portion since the ship shielded him), causing him to be "a little burnt." On the other hand, unless I'm misunderstanding, this argument you're putting out seems to imply that he wasn't actually inside the ship, otherwise he would've stayed unburnt like Diesel.

You're literally taking the haha funny gag and using it as an argument.
This doesn't even tackle any points he said. Joey was burnt because he was outside, doesn't matter how much, he was burnt because he was exposed, how little or much, doesn't matter for that point. Diesel isn't because he was always in the ship.
You said Samus just hopped out in the middle of the nuke, if this was the case (which I feel is a critical element they'd show or state and the fact they don't....), even as a gag, Diesel would be burnt a lil too, he isn't, so ignoring how what you said is effectively fabricated, whether on purpose or not, and not sourced from the actual material, but it blatantly makes your hypothetical of Samus going in, then exiting, simply not true, the ship's insides would have been washed, and Diesel too. That didn't happen.
If she did, he'd have been too.

Whether Joey being exposed to it makes sense, doesn't matter, it can be deemed an outlier for him, even tho in his case it's played off as tongue and cheek and a cute lil gag. This doesn't change what actually transpired though. For an example, Batman folding Martian Manhunter. Did it happen? Yeah. Does Batman scale to him? No. Does him not scaling mean he didn't actually do that? No he did, that's what happened, straight up punched him out. But, it's dumb and inconsistent so we don't use that. Here it's even worse tho because it's just a lil gag and not meant be taken at face value to begin with.

Think; do you really think we're going to take this as factual or likely? This is simply assumptions that can be proven false just by looking over what actually happened.

Yeah she got hit, the issue is that the page where Diesel said he got there "in the nick of time" implies that Diesel got there at the last moment and saved them.

No, it implies he got there in time, and saved Joey, whom is in the ship with him. That's kind of it really.
Samus never entered it, we know they didn't exit the epicenter. You're making extra assumptions that lead to ridiculous situations like them going back to the epicenter after the fact.
You'd be right if they like, didn't say where the ship was coming from, had a larger timeframe to do anything, Samus actually got in, and they didn't emerge from the very blast's center with a whole panning.

What is said, doesn't actually indicate what you're claiming. It implies it, in a situation we didn't get all this extra info.

Additionally, Joey being a little burnt kinda implies that he wasn't near the center considering the fact that without using his gadgets (which don't seem to cover his whole body from the back, which the explosion would hit),

Well, you're just kinda of wrong, like think about it.
We already know it was mid-exploding, yet you're arguing that he got far enough away in that microscopic gap to only get "a lil burnt".

How? It couldn't be due tothe ship, unless you're arguing Diesel swung in, they hopped on the ship (as in Joey himself straight up clung to it as the ship zipped through a maze-like lab at mach 500 or something, piloted by a dude who def isn't that fast) and got so far away that the heat only burnt him a lil, but, what? No? That makes even less sense, if he had time to hop on and grab it why wouldn't he just go in? But we know that's impossible as they never exit the blast aka he'd have had to of went in while they were engulfed in the blast from a far distance, but we already established that's impossible as it'd wash out the ship and burn Diesel too but he's fine. This situation you're describing, is impossible to have occured with what we know to actually be true.

he seems to have normal human durability.

Man, you realize he could've been 1000km away from the blast, and got caught at the very edge, which we know straight up didn't happen as we see it explode and then expand like a thousand km, would make him blatantly superhuman right?

Also no he's got the dog in him, kid is mach speed in reactions and well into superhuman levels, I wouldn't scale him to this, evidently, but he's got megajoule durability feats at least, might have a few better ones but they're annoying.

This is something that Armor pointed out. He would've had to have been far away from the center of the explosion.

And yet, we know he wasn't, and also not what he actually claimed. Which cycles back to your argument unironically being that Diesel who barely showed up as it is, managed to escape through the lab, all while Joey clinged to the ship, just so he could get a lil burnt, then enter it while miracalously the interior and Diesel didn't get so much as touched despite the ship being engulfed, and then, for them to 180 back, go back to where they were, and then fly up. Along with numerous other contrivences.

Also, I decided to add something to this conversation that I hadn't before: I realized that arguing the semantics of the fantranslation is pointless, so I put the original Japanese text ("僕心点より上昇してくる物体があります") through a couple different translators. All of them except for DeepL translated it along the lines of "There is an object that rises above the center point." This does not indicate that she was at the center of the explosion when it happened.

Nice try.
"!? 爆心点より上昇してくる物体があります"

• 爆心点 (ばくしんてん, epicenter, critical point)
• より (from, above)
• 上昇 (じょうしょう, rising, ascending)
• してくる (to come, to approach, this one is in reference from bro's POV btw, aka it's coming toward him)
• 物体 (ぶったい, object, mass)
• が (subject marker, aka, the former part of sentence
• あります (there is, exists)

"!? There is an object rising from the epicenter!", though the original japanese sentence structure is still follows a Subject-Object-Verb (SOV) order, opening with ("爆心点より" – "from the epicenter"), followed by the action ("上昇してくる" – "rising"), and then the subject ("物体" – "object") with the existence verb ("あります" – "there is") because japanese is weird like that and usually the main point comes first with additional details coming after the fact (aka the focal point here, is the fact whatever "it" is, is located in the epicenter).
Can't really add "coming/approaching" into it from into that sentene without adding extra words like "the", but just know it specifies exactly where that object is coming from. As an aside, yes, "from" not "above" here, it's denoting from where the object is coming approaching and rising from.

But that's just the individual kanji.

To be extra anal, let's actually break down how they flow together in a sentence.

• 爆心点より(ばくしんてんより)
  • 爆心点 (ばくしんてん): This means "epicenter" as established and "より" is a particle meaning "from".
    This conveys and means "From the epicenter" (idk how to fix the bullet points and whenever i backspace or enter it like copies it but i wanted to make it a diff one, plz send hlp Edit: Nvm i fixed it....)
• 上昇してくる(じょうしょうしてくる)
  • 上昇する (じょうしょうする): This verb means "to rise" or "to ascend." which, well yeah duh, andしてくる is a compound form combining して (the -te form of する, which here connects actions) and くる (meaning "to come"). Together, してくる suggests the action of rising is coming toward the the dude yapping, which, we see happen so yeah. This conveys and means "rising up while coming/approaching"
• 物体(ぶったい)
  • This noun means "object" or "mass" (or body, tbh it just means a physical thing). This conveys that uh, "An object"
• が(subject marker)
  • Actaully important because we don't have stuff like this in ENG. が is a subject marker, indicating that 物体 ("object") is the subject of the sentence. In this context, が emphasizes this, with the preceeding info in the sentence being directly in regards to said thing being emphasized, aka, being about "the object", aka, your whole semantic argument actually doesn't apply, this directly confrms the ship, at that very moment, is coming from the very epicenter.
• あります(あります)
  • あります is a verb meaning "there is" or "exists," typically used for non-living things, which uh, idk I don't feel like I need to elaborate.

Which is actually MORE explicit than the ENG one.

 

[Chariot190]

It can't have been the ship shielding him from the center of the blast either considering the fact that the same ship got destroyed by a crash far below small country level (the amount of energy it'd have to tank there). Even if we assume that the ship weighs as much as 10 blue whales and was going at full speed in the crash (130% of 2325039.414780527774069547 m/s or 3022551.23921 m/s according to this post),

Except we have no idea how fast it was going. How big the meteor was anything really.
In fact, she straight up lost conscious, for all we know it could of accelerated, in fact, it blatantly did. It was cruising next to BSL, she no longer stayed in control, and then like nigh instantly overtakes it.

And mind you, no, the ship's top speed is MFTL+, sub-rel is just the value she scales too for being able to manually pilot it at said speeds, but given she was dying, couldn't control it, and the ship suddenly sped up.....

Nah.

that still means it got destroyed by a crash far weaker than the portion of the explosion it'd have to tank to shield Joey from it.

As above.

Samus also points out that this burst of lava/flame that is obviously far below country level would've destroyed her ship along with her (she didn't have her varia suit).

Metroid literally has super lava as an established concept that's so hot that those who can shrug off swimming through normal lava and thermonuclear devices lv of heat and more on get burnt....
and that ship literally survived in the core of the sun like 2 chapters before that, for an actual tangible amount of time.


So, what's the argument? "This burst we have no real idea the details of in a verse with just super lava for some reason would've defeated the ship so it can't be higher than this" yet, we already know it's way, way, way higher than that instance at face value?
Like, are you arguing the ship is only 9-A? Because that's what it'd be at face value if we just took that as a lava spout, yet in that same ch, the ship already has better feats, like



Which mind you, as you kindly pointed out ages ago, being in the core of the sun is 8-A from just the thermal energy, yet.... That's for a person, for the ship it'd be well into 7-C at minimum due having a higher area, not withstanding the pressure, gravity, and other facets at play over it's even larger surface. So even with the utmost downplay, I don't get what you're trying to do here?

Clashing with the shine spark ship that pulped other ships and plowed through some sci-fi metal (Reminder Metroid has steel that can literally tank country lv nukes up close, as seen in Tourian).
That's like, even just assuming basic steel or baseline KE with just mach 1 speed (which it isn't, that was a interplanetary race), superceedes your apparent anti-feat. And that's the end of that same chapter.

Like, the ship is established, along with her in that very power suit, to be able to withstand temps well over 15 million degrees for at least a good handful of seconds, reading out the kanji they yap aloud, like 30-40 seconds tbh, and have dozens of feats above what you're unironically trying to use as anti-feats as to why it can't be 6-B. And let's not even get into the fact she's tanked big lava attacks in the games before or killed dudes that can effortlessly overpower larger spouts composed of standard lava (like The Specimen or X) as seen in your example.

ALSO, that very same chapter, points out the ship has shields like Samus and they work on a energy based system like her, the very next page actually mentions them, the existence of the ship having energy shields makes this whole argument moot.

The only way Joey could've survived this is by having the ship fly him far away from the center of the explosion before it happened. This would of course also mean that Samus was far away from the center of the explosion before it happened too, since she was riding in/on top of it with them.

Yeah except, that didn't happen as established.

Man, just say you think it's an outlier and be done with it, you're actively digging a hole. Even if everything you said was right (it isn't but for argument's sake), that still wouldn't change what actually happened.

 

[TyphonEX]

They also dont light up the whole room like a flashbang unless shit is super wrong.

And sh*t going super wrong is different from exploding. It's likely in the process of going supercritical, not exploding at that very moment.

Don typically represents a loud sound, often used for something like a heavy impact (think like a heavy weight or meteor), or an explosive force. So... Well really not much left to say (And cherry on top, the actual explosion uses the same sfx).

Wouldn't "don" be "ドン" or "ドオン"? I don't even see "ド" at all in the panel where you say the reactor is exploding.

And, why would it do that if it's producing energy? It was already doing that? It's a nuclear reactor, it only does that because bro set it to explode, and, well it does, that's what it's doing. Doesn't help the next panel is the blast.

Producing MORE energy is what I meant. Bro had to fly out of there before he got engulfed in the explosion, they weren't going to blow it up immediately.

As an aside, yes, "from" not "above" here, it's denoting from where the object is coming approaching and rising from.

Why exactly do you have to use "from" instead of "above"? "From" seems just as valid as "above", it seems like you're just arbitrarily picking and choosing.

that's impossible as it'd wash out the ship and burn Diesel too but he's fine.

I don't really know how to explain that but how do you explain it? Joey can't have just tanked the explosion outside the ship at the center, you yourself say that he doesn't scale that high. He can't have been inside the ship at the center either because if it just burned through, Diesel would've been burned. It doesn't make sense whether the ship flew away from the center beforehand or not. It doesn't make any more sense with your interpretation than mine. Unless we suppose Diesel is just more durable than Joey, which could apply to both scenarios.

sub-rel is just the value she scales too for being able to manually pilot it at said speeds, but given she was dying, couldn't control it, and the ship suddenly sped up.....

It was already established in another thread that Samus's ship uses warp tech to go MFTL. Sub-rel is the max speed of the ship without warping, not just with her having to react. Keep in mind sub-rel was the speed that Samus's ship flew at while flying in a straight line into outer space away from Zebes. She did not need to react as there were no obstacles in the way, she was just flying as fast as possible before warping. And of course, it's quite important to point out that the ship did not warp before crashing into the asteroid, so it wasn't an MFTL crash or whatever. At most it was a sub-rel crash which is far below Low 6-B.

Speaking of the ship being in the core of a star, it almost got destroyed by that, which establishes it as a limit. Even if only 0.1% of the Low 6-B (even higher considering the ship's surface area) energy in the reactor explosion was thermal energy (which is a huge lowball considering the fact that IRL nukes release around a third or more of their energy as thermal energy), that would still far exceed the 7-C thermal energy inside a star. It would be too much for the ship to handle. That's not even mentioning the fact that the star wasn't even at its full heat yet, it was still thawing. As for Low 6-B lava... I'm not even going to argue against that. It's ridiculous, but I'm not willing to go into that if you're going to be that stubborn. Consider this a concession to your point about Low 6-B lava.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump.

 

[Armorchompy]

I think this debate has gone on for too long given the quality of your arguments. Unless you manage to gain any real support, I'm just gonna apply the thread in a day or two.

Doin this

 

[Armorchompy]

Three quick things:

I forgot we didn't apply rage power to the ZM keys so my bad for saying they'd have multipliers

Chariot recalculated the Low 6-B feat and it got 7x higher, putting Samus into 6-B outright

Some of Samus' keys don't really fit what i've outlined because i plan to change how the profiles are laid out a bit, but I won't do it until the next thread obv