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Samus Aran Speed Downgrade

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Sorry to double post, but I watched this fight and I'd like to say that I'd be willing to accept only a slight downgrade in her speed (aside from the FTL stuff) but have the reasons be changed. A rough draft would be:

Speed: Supersonic+ (Capable of doding sonic blasts while underwater, wherein sound is 4.3x faster), at most Massively Hypersonic (Capable of dodging presumably real lightning in her Zero Suit)

Basically, keeping speed mostly the same but removing mentions of it being that high due to gravity. I can calc the lightning dodge if people want me to.
 
It's still impossible to determine her exact landing. Plus the explosion that lit up the whole valley sounds much bigger than room level. Also, as seen in the 0.56 mark, it appeared to have created a large crater.
 
I don't see what you mean. We know exactly when she landed because we can measure the time from when she apppeared to when it ended. I wasn't measuring the whole distance to where she landed, just the max distance we see.

And yes, I know. It was clearly above Small Building, that's why I said the explosion was likely from her ship failing and not from sheer impact energy.
 
Responding to your response, not everything stated afterwards.

  • Except we don't know the process of even entering the sector, it would be like assuming the Sun isn't hot because
  • Where did you get the idea of the space pirate planet having low enough gravity for Earthlings to walk upon? Not to mention, how does the fact that if we assume that it has the level of gravity you're stating, why would that even impact their resistance to gravity? It's like saying a Saiyan can't survive higher gravity than 10x because planet Vegeta only had 10x gravity.
  • So you're using a basically statless character to try to debunk the gravity?
  • Again, this sounds very much as just a plot induced idiocy and an extremely minor one at that. Does Goku's sweat disprove that he is actually in 100x gravity in the gravity chamber for example?
  • Samus got them onto the ship.
  • This argument is clearly gameplay mechanics. The very fact that this was brought as an argument actually kinda angers me.
  • "For context, the only reason Zero Mission was completed alone was because they couldn't reach Zebes fast enough"
The Metroid manga takes for the most part before Zebes. ZM happens afterwards and partially during the end of the manga after a long time later. You should have seen this when looking for evidence against the gravity if you read the manga completely for context.

  • But your point still leads to basically every character who had a car or material thrown at them to get a downgrade. She dodged to avoid damage from a guy who is incredibly strong, it is that basic.
  • Your estimation is completely unjustified by the sheer fact that this fiction. Assuming Superman is average, (for example), then there is no way he would even be at the level he is at.
Please read back to what I said. I wasn't using his invasion on Norion as a point, but his escape from the core to the pirate homeworld without assistance due to the Feds controlling the system. In SM we see no space ship and see him fly out alone with the Baby Metroid.

Uh Dark Samus unstabilizing = teleportation? Never mind the fact that those particles don't even teleport. Uh she didn't connect to Phazee till Prime 3, what are you talking about? There is no quite, it can be logically inferred considering how there is no other way to get there.

Only partially, and has never been show to be used for crossing large distances. Also Phantoon appeared from outside the Bottle Ship, not inside making that rather impossible.

No. They said Gorea did terrorize their galaxy. Additionally, it lasted three months according to alimbic lore. Which I'm guessing you didn't read prior to this point.

By any chance, did you just go through some pages and pick up arguments in the process, or did you actually tried to understand some of the info and its context. If not, can you please do so, I'm feeling this is actually not going to end benefiting the quality of the pages nor the best use of time for everyone here.

Responding to everything you said afterwards
The ship officially survived the crash and was remade into the MP1 and MPH with significant upgrades.

That alone completely destroys the idea the explosion was from the ship exploding, and that it was from the KE. Also, not supporting the fact that we used pixel scaling from a video game cutscene from a very outdated console, that has had some rather... interesting results (See the Game Theorist's video on how Wario is 10 feet tall via pixel scaling)
 
@SomebodyData

That was my point exactly. :3 And yeah, I wrote a comment on the Wario's Fart Physics video about Wario being 10 feet tall. If he were 10 feet tall, Waluigi would be like almost 20 feet. Plus 308 pounds would actually be quite thin at a 10 feet height.
 
  • Because in MP3 several humans walk on the Space Pirate Homeworld with no issues whatsoever. Assuming that they can suddenly survive 960x gravity seems like manipulating evidence to fit the data
  • No, they both have feats. None exceed Wall level, even when they're pushing themselves
  • Consider then clouds or just about any other feature on the planet that isn't pure neutronium
  • Okay, but just because Samus transported them doesn't disprove my point that regular humans were able to deal with a replica of Zebes' environment
I did read the manga completely. In fact I made a huge respect thread listing every single feat from all of her appearances bar Samus and Joey and things like Captain N. I may be wrong on the context of the Zero Mission, but either way the Federation considered it fully possible to invade Zebes on their own.

  • The ship still wasn't moving fast though, the KE was not any higher than Building level at best. If she truly lived in 960x gravity she should've easily been able to stop it
  • Difference being that Superman has explicit super-strength, this is just an animal with no feats
Both scenarios with Ridley we don't see the feat. In Super Metroid he simply leaves the station and doesn't appear again, it's entirely possible he just took his ship. Same with the Pirate Homeworld one, as it isn't exactly hard to hide a spaceship in the void of space.

As for Dark Samus, here's a log from Metroid Prime 2 stating:

"The Dark Hunter teleports into the base at will. Our security has proven next to useless against her. Her latest raid was disastrous. Not only did we lose more Phazon to her, but she also crippled the stealth field generator with her strange new weapons."

Even without this, she had many more ways to reach Aether. Please try to look at this from my perspective. If I heard "Darth Vader went to Hoth" and he shows up without a spaceship, I'm still going to assume he took one in lack of feats of Darth Vader flying MFTL+ despite the fact he is logically capable of flight.

Phantoon also hasn't been shown capable of flying interstellar unaided. Either way, one of us is making an assumption.

I did read the Alimbic Lore. In nearly all instances of the word "galaxy" they are speaking as a hypothetical if they did not stop it. You can read this for yourself. I'm not sure where you got the timeframe of 3 months from. If you're using the timeframe between Prime and Prime 2, that's kinda flawed. We have no idea how long it took Gorea to send out the message or how long it took the message to reach them.

As for the ship, the KE part was just a tidbit. The point was to demonstrate that the gravity is low even in an actual cutscene. Your later point is just disregarding calculations because it's old, which I shouldn't even have to get into.
 
@LordXCano

Alimbic War 01

Logbook entry

"The War lasted three standard galatic months. Even with the galaxy's most powerful technology at our disposal, we felt like dry grass beneath the blade."

Just answering were the 3 months part came from. Quote directly came from that link.
 
@DDM

Thank you. Even so, that doesn't remove the possibility he used a ship or the possibility that the Alimbic empire is regulated to one system (as shown in the game.)
 
I see, but I still don't see how it is a point. Insert example from earlier post.

Unless you count the gravity itself as a feat.

Then consider Vegeta's clothes in training, or his hair. Or the floor. The point stands.

Yeah, but whether or not this replica includes gravity is speculation.

Just pointing this out, but the Federation didn't even know Zebes existed until it was attacked. Not to mention we don't know the specifics about their technology and whether or not the suits were made for such extreme levels of gravity.

Again insert example of this explained before. Now adding the fact that you're assuming it was actually thrown at some low speed in a battle between, even by your stats, would be supersonic+, it would be like downgrading most FTE+ verses because you can see their punches.

Which again, means you're using a featless entity to try to downgrade something.

It is hard to hide a space ship when said void of space was full of people trying to destroy those space ships.

Well its still not like she could have teleported to Phazee or Aether. She wouldn't have know where they were without looking traveling to discover them in the first place.

I see, and now look upon it from my perspective if you may. While you could argue that in SM he had secretly hidden a space ship, in MP3 that is simply impossible due to the GF presence.

Well, actually for the most part of the fight he does fly in outer space...

Interesting, I remember it having done so already, but it is a mistake on my part as shown.

Well the KE rebuttal was about the fact that it would mean that the speed/acceleration shown was not faithful to the actual scene. No it was because it was an outdated console which had poor quality imagery for scaling, I even brought the Wario example as well.
 
@SD

The point is that since humans can survive on Zebes without issue there's no reason to assume that Space Pirates are meant to survive on extremely high gravities.

That's circular reasoning.

Sure.

Not really. The point was that the enemies display no greater strength than they did on Zebes. This would be like someone lifting 1000 pounds on Zebes and then going to Earth and struggling to lift that same 1000, but still claiming Zebes has a higher gravity.

Sure, we don't. But we can't just start making up technology to fit the premise.

You generally don't assume cinematic timing unless there's evidence for such. Plus I demonstrated in the OP how MP3 takes place in real-time, and I can directly calc the feat to be in real-time if you'd like.

It is not hard to hide a ship. Can you see satellites in space? Right now? Those are just a few thousand miles up. We're talking right in the middle of nowhere in in multiple AU^3.

Using the same logic I can say she wouldn't have been able to reach Aether in the first place without having been there beforehand.

It isn't impossible, see above. A 10 or even 50 meter wide spaceship is practically invisible in space. Even under best conditions the ISS is just a dot in the sky, and the Federation didn't notice Sylux even when he was right next to their flagship.

Being in space doesn't equate to "can fly interstallar".

Using the ship (which the main point of was to calc Zebes' gravity from a cutscene) and then rejecting it seems kinda flawed. Especially when we're discussing the KE of the ship. After all, you use a calc from the exact same scene in Samus' profile to justify her Town level rating. Yet it's unusable when it's a downgrade?

Also, speaking of calcs, I found this calc placing Nightmare's gravity manipulation at just 7.88g, which was more than enough to hamper Samus' movements and outright pull her missiles to the ground.
 
Humans? Are you still using the dead trooper who we have absolutely no specifics on, as your example?

And you're considering them to be barely superhuman by not counting the gravity. And by the way, they can kill quite a bit of pirates, which is a rather impressive feat.

What's missing in your example is that Samus isn't struggling to lift said weight under normal g.

Yes, we can't make up tech. But we can't simply say that "Oh this suit can survive this level of gravity, so the level of gravity must be wrong".

Again, using quite the anti-feat. But lets' assume that it is. Would that make Samus Athletic Human level since we can see her movements and that of others? Because that is what would happen and it is painfully obvious because the cutscene is a visual media, you have to see it.

It is very hard to hide a ship when there is an entire army up there. Again, this premise is also false, I may not be able to see the satellites, but between radars and actually being up in space the Federation should easily see one. As for the AU^3, you must consider the fact that Ridley would have to get out of a militant opposing planet, then an entire army, to get to the ship. Not only would he have to be incredibly fast to even dodge all of this, it would make no sense that in the time they had available to miss it unless it was incredibly far off, so much in fact, that I doubt he would even need the speed of the ship if that's the case.

Actually, no she could have just found it by wandering out looking for phazon. You don't simply teleport to a place that you don't even know exists.

Sylux was near a GF gunship?

But it at least proves that he can fly in space, just not that we necessarily know the speed.

No I'm saying that the speed of the media isn't faithful to the actual see result. And interesting how you bring up its a Town level feat, because that should be the actual result. When they don't match up, what do you think is the reason?

I see, and here's an idea, let's also use pixel scaling on a limited level of graphic quality media, (Say Super Mario Bros) and find out the gravity of that location. Spoiler alert, I really doubt it would be 9.8m/s^2.
 
We don't have any specifics, but the corpse is very human like and seems to be wearing Federation armor. IIRC, we've only seen humans as part of the actual Federation army, with most of the bounty hunters and mecenaries they hire being the ones who are aliens.

The elf kills them via weaponry, not brute strength. That's moreso a speed or skill feat than anything. And considering that Federation soldiers can fight Pirates (see: the invasion of their homeworld) killing them isn't really that much higher than regular human level.

What I'm saying is not that Samus is struggling to lift the weight, but rather all of the enemies fail to display any greater ability than they did on Zebes, despite the fact they should logically by 960x more powerful.

I don't believe they have gravity manipulation tech?

As far as MP3 is concerned, yes. Both MP and MP3 are explicitly shown to take place in real-time, with only MP2 having feats to suggest she's moving quickly (the sonic dodge). Samus in MP3 moves at Athletic Human speed in an in-universe timeframe of 3 minutes even though she is going as fast as she can.

We see in the assault of Phaaze that combat in space takes place in close-quarters, we also see this in the scene where Samus gets shot down in Zero Mission. Unless the Federation had ships stationed at every km^2 in orbit it is entirely possible to just avoid them. Not to mention we have no idea how fast their beams are, but I could try and calc it, although it'd be difficult I think.

There are 4 scenarios for Dark Samus here. She either teleported to a planet she didn't know existed, flew to a planet she didn't know existed, teleported to a planet she knew existed/could sense (searching for Phazon as you mentioned) or flew to one she sensed. The first 2 scenarios are incredibly unlikely. It's nigh-impossible to just randomly crash upon a planet, much less one that has exactly what you're looking for. The latter one is also unlikely, as why would she travel when she can teleport? Therefore the most likely scenario is that she teleported to a planet she knew existed or could sense.

Turns out I was wrong on this point. I was thinking of a different ending where she gives a thumbs up, she's in SkyTown in the 100% ending.

Sure, but so can a lot of characters. In fact, in the fight against Phantoo you clearly see he's able to shift body parts in and out of his "astral dimension".

The calc was not based on the seen result though. In fact the calc doesn't scale the speed or the explosion or anything at all, it just calcs falling into Zebes at 960x gravity. If I calc'd the explosion size I'd likely get CB or MCB at most, which I can do if you want me to. But either way, this is still irrelevant. The point of the calc was to calc the gravity, not the KE of the impact.

You're right actually. Gravity in Mario is consistently higher than real life gravity. But why does this matter? What we see is what is what we go off of, not a hypothetical.
 
That is true, but I was more talking about the tech of the trooper. Even if we assume normal gravity, the trooper (If a regular one) should not be anywhere near Kraid's Lair and would surely have died by even the weakest of the wildlife.

Actually, pretty sure the Fed Troops fighting SP should be considered PIS. Especially when you consider they are armed with extreme amounts of Phazon (Were there PED Troopers?)

Oh I see, and how would they showcase this? The wildlife is already generally featless (with a few exceptions) and as far as I know are generally restricted by game mechanics as well.

You're assuming that the 1.36 g gravity proposed is being applied here, as well as using this idea to say that if it was 960x the gravity of Earth, the people wouldn't be able to survive this?

If we used this argument of real time, you do realized every timed event in video games would make the respective verses Athletic Human level right?

Actually, it would be every 25km^2 if not greater thanks to their radars, assuming of course they had no development since 2013 in radar potency. http://newatlas.com/royal-navy-radar-tennis/26577/ (Especially when you consider Ridley is not the size of a tennis ball)

Ah I see, I was rather confused about that

Uh can you specify when in the video he did that? Because I'm not seeing it? I'm seeing the portals, but otherwise not astral dimension phasing.

My point about your KE calc is that it shouldn't be smaller than explosion, if it was bigger you could argue aoe control, but otherwise no. And by using said KE calc that is unfaithful to the scene, you're presenting an unfaithful argument for the gravity.

Which is what happens when you try pixel scaling in very poor graphical scenarios, and even the level of gravity is inconsistent, ranging from 4.4x to 11x. Which is my point, we see that it is officially at this level, but you're making a calc assuming that the physics of the scene is loyal, the limits of the system have absolutely no impact, despite showings against that.
 
To be fair, we don't know much about the guy. He could just be exceptionally skilled, or perhaps left behind from some other mission. Or maybe he's just a rando.

There were PED Troopers but they were not the bulk of the army. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I also believe we see Troopers fighting Space Pirates near the beginning of the game. And prior to Zero Mission it took the Pirates years to gain what was at most a few hundred worlds, while the Federation owns 140,328 solar systems.

Other M is a very cinematic game. Literally any comment about how they seem greatly stronger than usual. Or, well, Federation humans not fighting against them on a regular basis.

1.36g is perfectly survivable, you regularly achieve 2g on roller coasters. In fact I think roller coasters are constantly at a minimum of 2g or something like that. And, yeah, if it was 960g they would be easily crushed. You would be crushed from constant 10g much less 96x that.

No. That's why I didn't include the countdowns in any Metroid aside from Prime 3. Because that's just a clock on the screen, pure game mechanics. In Prime 3 you have a character directly tell you "There are 3 minutes until this meteor hits", and despite this you're still moving as slow as ever.

I wasn't referring to radar range, rather weapon range, which we never see exceed a few kilometers. In fact, while this is ground-weaponry, lore places Samus' weapon range at a mere 3 to 10 meters.

He uses the portals to move his hands in and out of the dimension. We can somewhat see this in his concept art, where there's dark rings around where the vapor becomes a solid.

Considering that a crash of pure KE would not make a fireball (you can test this yourself by watching a video of cars be dropped from a large height) then something in the ship blew up. We don't know what it is, but something did.

While I'm aware gravity can just be whatever the devs want it to be, the fight with Nightmare would've had actual thought put into it. It could've easily been 960g and it wouldn't have made a difference at all. Someone at Nintendo had to program in a 7.88g acceleration into the game. Of note is that Other M also depicts similarly low gravity that still hampers Samus greatly.

------

Also, since the figure comes from Prime I'd like to bring up this quote from Sakamoto:

"We wanted to explore Metroid's possibilities as subjective (first person) action game. A member of Nintendo mentioned Retro, a studio that had great experience in this field. I didn't participate a lot in these games: I supervised that they maintained the essence of the franchise, but we gave them a lot of liberty with the plot. In fact, I have always seen the story of the Primes as alternative and not integrated in the story of the other Metroids, that's the reason they had total liberty when creating it. And Samus was different, tougher."

This is further backed up in Other M, where Samus states that this is her first team-up with the Federation since Zero Mission, despite them working together heavily in Prime 3. I know a guy who has more evidence towards Prime likely being an alt. timeline or an AU, but he isn't home yet.
 
Yeah, which is why I'm not sure if he should be used in this argument, too much speculation.

Yeah we do see them in the beginning of the game, but in those fights none of the GF troops actually managed to kill a space pirate where as GF bodies were just dropping everywhwere. In Norion, for example, we see space pirates walk through the blasts until a Trooper used the PED. Where I would assume the gap in owned terrority is due to Samus and lack of numbers, (GF = multiple aliens, SP = SP) Also where did you get the number of systems from?

Would Samus notice a gap in strength? I mean, she too was quite affected by the gravity on Zebes and now no longer is, for her and the wildlife the battles would be the same. There is also quite a problem with scaling from Other M. Ie a normal trooper (Remember when two metroids completely destroyed a squad) is able to avoid an entire biome of them. Anthony is capable of even damaging Ridley, Samus can be one shotted by a trooper and etc.

Well I mean, the purpose of my comment was to showcase how whether or not it is 1.36x g or 960x, you're assuming they have gravity manipulation technology on that level of the entire ship, when the only showcasing of g manipulation is on an extremely lower range.

You mean like what Frieza did with his infamous 5 minute statement?

I actually was referring to radar range for finding the supposed ship. And which lore are you talking about?

I would argue that Metroid doesn't follow KE logic (like most fiction), to that precise of a level.

And the person who programmed it was a simple game designer, it would be like treating the "Samus is trans" statement from the game developer in SM with any weight. Speaking of SM, the Gravity Feature

Uh, just a recommendation, but using the plot from Other M is a very, very bad idea. It literally contradicts everything in the timeline, particularly the Metroid manga and ZM, with the only exceptions being Metroid 2 and S + J, interestingly enough.

I would like to hear this evidence, although more for my personal curiosity than the thread lol.
 
Number of systems comes from the Metroid Prime website, and the system difference was before Zero Mission even started, so it's unlikely it was all just Samus.

Yeah, I know. Other M is full of low-ends because we finally get a comparison to humans. But that isn't really a problem, moreso showing that these people aren't as strong as we initially thought. And yeah, I wasn't gonna argue Samus would have a harder time since she'd logically have the same boost.

What entire ship? I don't know what you're talking about. Are you talking about Nightmare or something?

You see though, Frieza says "5 minutes" and then the fight lasts 4 hours, meaning they were fighting way, waaay faster than what we saw. In Samus' case they say "3 minutes" and then 3 minutes later it hits.

To give you a sense of scale as to what you're proposing, a ship every 25 km^2 in the lowest elevation for Earth's orbit would require roughly 644,000,000 ships. That's 644 millio ships, when their armada against Phaaze and the Pirate Homeworld was merely a few hundred. Then, supposing they did have 644 million ships posted around Norion, they would all have to detect Ridley, turn around, and then get into weapon range, and then hope that said weapons can tag him. As for Samus' 3 to 10 meter range, it comes from the Prime website which lists her range as 3-10 m.

Do you have any examples of a physical strike causing fireball explosions in Metroid to back this up?

Using the logic of "it's just a game designer" couldn't one discount any kind of scaling from any game so long as it isn't a cutscene?

Even without Other M that still leaves the quote from Sakamoto outright stating he had practically no involvement and doesn't consider it apart of the mainline series. As for Other M, what are the contradictions? And, since the beginning of this thread hinged on an older guide being overwritten by a newer scan, wouldn't Other M just retcon info?
 
Not debating here anymore, but the Goku Vs. Freeza Fight is a terrible example, as it originally happened in manga format, and it was far less padded than Toei's version.
 
That is quite true, but that is why I also stated numbers. Consider this, currently, the only Pirate Populations we know that exist are in Zebes and the PH, which is incredibly small compared to the GF's populations scatter through multiple planets.

Well, again, I would treat the comparison with humans in Other M with quite the bit of salt. The scaling there is extremely out of wack.

Well consider this, most of the ship is based around Zebes so it would have to be roughly on par with its gravity for most of the ship. Yeah, I was referring to Nightmare.

^Insert what Matt said about the Frieza battle

Well, 25km^2 is what Britain had in 2013 which is quite the lowball. More accurately, as I found out with search, is that they would use the technique of Radar Astronomy which would range to 8-10 AU. Of course, at that level of range it would barely specific enough to detect it, but at 1-2 AU, it should be much lesser of a problem. Add the fact that they have multiple planets in that system, and it would very very hard for Ridley to escape and nearly impossible for him to hide the ship.

Hmmm, no, well with the exceptions of crates being blown up by things like Boost Ball despite mostly containing energy and according to scans, very basic objects needed to survive.

I would argue so, in most cases. If the size of certain enemies or objects is actually consistent with what is depicted in the game, then go ahead. But in Metroid, a verse where at one point Samus was as tall as Kraid in game, I have high doubts about that.

How old is that statement by the way? He may have changed his feelings, considering his involvement in MP: Federation Force.

A retcon is a direct change in continuity made to explain away things or for the plot without damaging it. An inconsistency breaks the plot with no real reasoning. Examples of retcons in Other M, for example, would be Samus' height, the inclusion of Anthony, or Phantoon's origins.

Examples of Inconsistencies:

  • Samus's suit
  • Super Metroid's ending
  • Metroid Zero Mission being forgotten
  • Adam's Relationship with Samus Aran
  • DNA of Zebes species being absent in MF.
  • Samus's feelings toward the GF in MF.
  • Samus's items prior to MF.
  • Metroid Queen being replicated.
  • Lack of Kraid, Crocomire, etc
Note: There was something else I wrote prior to the reply being eaten up, but I can't remember...
 
"That is quite true, but that is why I also stated numbers. Consider this, currently, the only Pirate Populations we know that exist are in Zebes and the PH, which is incredibly small compared to the GF's populations scatter through multiple planets."

Yes, but why does this mean that the Federation fighting them is PIS? If they're regulated to a few planets the Federation must be doing something right, and even just logistically one person can't hold off an entire species on several planets all at once.

"Well, again, I would treat the comparison with humans in Other M with quite the bit of salt. The scaling there is extremely out of wack."

Again again, this is like the only time we ever get comparisons to humans. The wildlife on Zebes is practically featless, best thing being the supersonic drop in the OP. So when we first get compairsons to humans and they are able to fight them off, then the wildlife clearly isn't as dangerous as we presumed.

"Well consider this, most of the ship is based around Zebes so it would have to be roughly on par with its gravity for most of the ship. Yeah, I was referring to Nightmare."

What ship? I still don't know what you're referring to. Nightmare, if anything, is an anti-feat for their gravity manipulation tech, since they need a multi-story tall machine combined with a genetically engineered organism in order to make an estimated 7.88g across a room.

"^Insert what Matt said about the Frieza battle"

I was confused for a bit as I thought it was anime-only. Even so, that's still a low-showing for Goku and Frieza. Like that "fire in one hour" statement in Naruto and then them firing some 10 minutes later. But in this case it applies across an entire game and, as this thread is trying to show, Samus doesn't really have the speed feats to suggest this is simply an outlier.

"Add the fact that they have multiple planets in that system, and it would very very hard for Ridley to escape and nearly impossible for him to hide the ship."

Again, none of this addresses their actual weapon range, which is evidently quite low. A Star Destroyer, for example, can detect things light-years away, however all combat is held within a few hundred km distance.

"Hmmm, no, well with the exceptions of crates being blown up by things like Boost Ball despite mostly containing energy and according to scans, very basic objects needed to survive."

Keep in mind "energy" is exactly what an explosion is, just uncontained and expanding energy. Not to mention this energy is being shot with another powerful blast of energy.

"I would argue so, in most cases. If the size of certain enemies or objects is actually consistent with what is depicted in the game, then go ahead. But in Metroid, a verse where at one point Samus was as tall as Kraid in game, I have high doubts about that."

In this case it's not being scaled from enemy size at all, rather purely from Samus who does have a set height (aside from Other M).

  • Samus' suit
  • Super Metroid's ending
  • Adam's relationship with Samus
  • DNA of Zebes being absent in MF
  • Samus' feelings towards the GF in MF
  • Samus' items prior to MF
  • Metroid Queen being replicated
  • Kraid, Crocomire, etc.
Could you explain these? The ending seems to be mostly similar, with the baby Metroid dying. We don't see anything else happen. DNA being absent in MF seems more like a problem with MF than it does Other M, same with her feelings towards the GF. Her items change literally every game with a bare minimum explanation given, I may as well say that Prime 3 is contradictory too since she doesn't have those items in Metroid 2. The Metroids were cloned, so a Queen showing up is natural, and Kraid and Crocomire not showing up could just be because they died and weren't recovered.

Also, why are these inconsistencies meanwhile something like "Samus' height" is a retcon?
 
Sorry to double post but as this is exceptionally relevant since the 960g figure comes from Prime it should be noted that a recent interview does reaffirm the above statement that Prime is separate from the mainline Metroid series, this time outright saying it's a parallel universe.

EDIT: Also 3000th edit
 
Actually, that interview was years old, March 10, 2010, and was made before Other M was released. Also, he said it doesn't take place in a different universe, but a different part of the story. And as SD said, he had plenty of involvement in Federation Force; which came after Other M.

As for the Vorash feat, I don't really see any formula's for lifting feats pages on this site, but I found a helpful calculator right here. Doing the calcs based on your observation of Vorash weighing 16.5 tonnes and assuming he was swimming away at 20 MPH, which is a huge downplay, I calced it to be over 411 tonnes of pulling strength to hold Vorash still. and that's just to hold him still let alone pull him out of the lava and throw him several stories high.

As for Vorash's size, I actually found this pic. Vorash looks like he weighs way more than 16.5 tonnes. Someone could probably do the pixel scaling comparing it to Samus's height, but I was just looking up the weight of various whales. Based on my analogy that Vorash's length seems to be at least 12 times longer than Samus's height, he actually seems to have mass close to a blue whale; which on average weighs about 136 tonnes.
 
The games that I've been involved with in the Metroid series have been on the NES, GameBoy, Super NES and the GBA. I actually didn't have a lot of input on the Prime series. But when they're doing with Other M here, it's not so much a different universe, it's just a different part of the story. You can't say that there's no relation here; it's probably best to think of them as being in parallel in this world.

Absolutely nothing about this quote implies that Metroid Prime is non-canon, and the series proper contradicts it. It seems you are just trying anything at this point.
 
Because in nearly every other occurrence, they would stand no chance. Ie, for example, Project Golem, the PED initiive, getting foddered by Aether fodder but the Space Pirates manage to fight off Agon fodder, etc. You're also using a one-time event in MP3 (Which by the way, is contradicted in MP3 unless we assume most of them survived via game mechanics, which is probable now that I think about it.)

We got a comparison to SPs in the manga (Where they literally one shot a pirate), so Zebes fodder >>> SP >>> GF Trooper. The idea that each single one of them, alone, managed to survive against Zebeian wildlife is quite hard to swallow.

The Bottle Ship.

Even by your own suggested statistics, this is a low-showing. Athletic Human vs Supersonic.

That's probably because it is a planetary invasion...

And btw, the DOOMEYE (A non-phazon powered piece of SP tech) has some massive range (I believe it was MSS range)

I don't quite understand, what is this other blast of energy?

I understand that, it was just an example that we really shouldn't use height in Metroid unless the height in said portion of the game is consistent, which is rather hard to tell without knowing the size of the room or of the enemy.

Samus' suit, officially, Samus has had two suits. The Legendary and original, but somehow, despite losing the original, she is using it.

Super Metroid's ending, Samus lacked most of the energy tanks, only had power beam apparently, and didn't have the Gravity Suit.

Adam's relationship with Samus, according to Samus, they always had a major respect for each other. Except for Other M apparently, where Adam had little respect for her.

DNA of Zebes being absent in MF They should have been replicated alongside the Zebesians and etc.

Samus' feelings towards the GF in MF by now, she knows something is up. The fact that she doesn't realize this until the end of MF is quite impossible.

Metroid Queen being replicated (See Below)

Kraid, Crocomire, etc. (See Below)

DNA being absent in MF is actually a problem with Other M, since Fusion came first. The relationship with Adam was also like Fusion in the manga, in contrast to Other M. Except this time the cutscene of an event in SM portrayed the lack of the gravity suit, in contrast to the separation of games (BTW, Samus gave back most of the tech to the Luminoth in MP2, so your example isn't quite accurate) The Metroid Queen cannot be replicated as easy as you're suggesting, it takes a special trait only found once out of the large amount of Metroids in the galaxy. Kraid and etc should have been replicated along literally everyone else they replicated.

- Retcon: Directly stated/ shown but doesn't break the plot(s).

- Inconsistency: Causes issues with the plot(s).

Also agree with the other guys.
 
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