Metroid - Rounding off the downgrades (2/2)

[JJSliderman]

Not even talking stat outlier, i mean an actual honest to god fucky, an actual outlier.

Why can the ship suddenly be MFTL+, yet the verse before and after, that to be MFTL you need warp tech? Why is the gunship a million times that of the best Federation ship while using warp, normally? That makes no sense and goes against how this is established to work. Not even a hyperbole, takes the Fed what, 2 hours to get to Zebes?

But not only that, 90% of the scene is in the cockpit, for all we know, they could've warped or maybe already were, we just have no idea, yet even if they didn't, when we see it, it has a huge **** off energy trail, which already makes that non-normal for it. And every time Samus would scale to it, that's absent like in the meteor section, so she wouldn't even scale even if we ignored every problem. THEN, add the fact that thing has auto-pilot.

The ship is only seen with the energy trail after an unspecified amount of time since the scene that opens the chapter, where they’re not even in the galaxy yet, still in 3-D space, with no visible sign they’re about to warp before entering the cockpit scene that is a straight continuation of the dialogue on the first page. Samus also doesn’t have the place mapped out, so her knowing exactly where Planet Maru is to warp there is iffy, and even if she did know, and could warp there, she would have just done it immediately from planet Outlaw, since the series established that if a place is too far away they don’t use hyperspace to get there. Plus, you can’t use autopilot to dodge missiles and lasers in a race scenario, that’s not feasible.

You want to make Samus, 100000000000x her next best feat, off a vague MFTL feat that even if we ignore how it makes zero sense in-universe, probably dont even scale anyway.
then tack on anti-feats like a QCL being nigh-hitscan.

I mean, not really, depending on timeframes the feat would prolly just be a couple million X above. The feat is only traveling 7800 light years, maybe less if you think the map is unreliable, in a timeframe of like a day, maybe. And Samus would prolly scale since the ship wasn’t shown with the energy trail on the first page, indicating it’s just normal speed.

 

[Chariot190]

The ship is only seen with the energy trail after an unspecified amount of time since the scene that opens the chapter, where they’re not even in the galaxy yet, still in 3-D space, with no visible sign they’re about to warp before entering the cockpit scene that is a straight continuation of the dialogue on the first page.

Yeah, problem with everything you just said, let's go step by step.

1The whole first sentence means nothing. That unspecified amount of time was the MFTL feat. if the ship doesnt have it, cuts to cockpit, does a MFTL feat, and when we see it at the end of the MFTL feat, it has a super **** energy trail, guess what that means? it means the MFTL feat and that are one and the same, at BEST, mind you.

When they're not in the galaxy yet, not about to warp? How would you know? it immediately cuts to the cockpit, and the next time we see the ship, it has a **** off energy trail dbz aura. that ALONE proves the ship before and after the MFTL feat underwent a speed change.

And yeah, it is, and we see that between entering the galaxy, and arriving, the ship got a huge dbz aura to accentuate a shift in speed? So what are you even yapping about?

Samus also doesn’t have the place mapped out, so her knowing exactly where Planet Maru is to warp there is iffy, and even if she did know, and could warp there, she would have just done it immediately from planet Outlaw,

You realize that exact argument goes against non-warp? Samus doesn't know where a planet among 1000000 is, so she def didn't warp at al and flew there normally even though the her not knowing where it'd be would apply to both? This argument makes zero sense, unless you argue there was a time cut where she looked for it, but if there was a cut away, then we 100% assume she warped because that's what the verse establishes and the travel would've been off-screen. You're actively ruining your own points.

Also, what? Warping isn't teleportation you know? it's like star wars shit. What warping is, is hyper-space.

Also, also, she might've? They're just talking and going "oh right bros at planet outlaw mentioned this, hey yeah let's go there", then they go.
Actually thinking on it, if she was told about Maru, she probably did know where? Would be dumb to tell her about it but not where. Not like that'd change anything.

since the series established that if a place is too far away they don’t use hyperspace to get there.

They established that in Prime 3, which came out after this manga. And if ya wanna use Prime 3 as an example, literally everything ever warps, Samus' chozo ship warps, even Dark Samus warps, not one thing EVER goes MFTL, the game hammers down any degree of MFTL takes warping, for even non-ships.

And yes, they do say that, and? Why do you think? it's because it'd take to long, yet you're arguing the ship NOT warping, can? Do you not see the blatant logical problem? if warp cant get there, then normal speed sure as hell cant.

I mean, not really, depending on timeframes the feat would prolly just be a couple million X above.

Lmao **** no? Youre arguing they got there within the span of a speech bubble.
Literally millions of light years, in seconds.

When her next best feat ain't even FTL, yeah, LITERALLY 3083520000000000x my dude. Actual approx gap.

The feat is only traveling 7800 light years, maybe less if you think the map is unreliable, in a timeframe of like a day, maybe.

Hold up, you think this took a day? She warped then. 100%, a whole ass day of offscreen time, aka, we don't even see the feat, and we're to assume "nah this time is the only time ever she didn't use hyperspace".

And Samus would prolly scale since the ship wasn’t shown with the energy trail on the first page, indicating it’s just normal speed.

Yeah, normal speed, and then not normal speed because we see the next page? And then it has it when it's actually doing the feat indicating that it had it while moving after she says "let's go!"?

None of your arguments make any sense, Samus never used the tech to go fast over a day or whatever off screen to go fast?
We dont see the trail when Samus is just cruisin and talking? So ignore the fact we see explicit evidence of burst speed when actually going fast?


Also how the hell did you reply, but fail to address ANY of the issues? Dude, it doesn't matter why you think the vague MFTL feat that she probably doesn't even scale to is MFTL, even if it is, that doesn't solve or tackle anything i just said. yeah, assuming zero warp was involved, it WOULD be MFTL, we got that, so?

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, not really, depending on timeframes the feat would prolly just be a couple million X above. The feat is only traveling 7800 light years, maybe less if you think the map is unreliable, in a timeframe of like a day, maybe. And Samus would prolly scale since the ship wasn’t shown with the energy trail on the first page, indicating it’s just normal speed.

If the claim is that there was a large timeskip in the middle of this, it'd be perfectly possible for her to have used hyperspace.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah, problem with everything you just said, let's go step by step.

1The whole first sentence means nothing. That unspecified amount of time was the MFTL feat. if the ship doesnt have it, cuts to cockpit, does a MFTL feat, and when we see it at the end of the MFTL feat, it has a super **** energy trail, guess what that means? it means the MFTL feat and that are one and the same, at BEST, mind you.

No? Arriving at the edge of the galaxy and then making it to planet Maru are two separate feats that would both be MFTL given the size of Area 1 and the distance to the galaxy on the map. What we see with the trail is at the end of the second part, getting to Maru, and it’s pretty likely they didn’t warp before starting the second part of that journey. Before Samus even enters Extreme Galaxy, she says “hey let’s fly around and make a star chart before we get to planet Maru”. Warping around everywhere to random planets goes against this idea because then they don’t know where these planets are in relation to everything else, so it’s not an accurate star chart. And them warping to the galaxy itself would require them to know exactly where Maru is in said galaxy, which they obviously didn’t if they were trying to chart out the galaxy.

When they're not in the galaxy yet, not about to warp? How would you know? it immediately cuts to the cockpit, and the next time we see the ship, it has a **** off energy trail dbz aura. that ALONE proves the ship before and after the MFTL feat underwent a speed change.

Because the characters in the cockpit aren’t going through a speed change when it cuts to the second page, they act like everything’s normal, no one acknowledges they’re in hyperspace, the panel doesn’t acknowledge they’re in hyperspace until well after they’re already in the galaxy and have a chart of information (given that they have already arrived at Maru)

You realize that exact argument goes against non-warp? Samus doesn't know where a planet among 1000000 is, so she def didn't warp at al and flew there normally even though the her not knowing where it'd be would apply to both? This argument makes zero sense, unless you argue there was a time cut where she looked for it, but if there was a cut away, then we 100% assume she warped because that's what the verse establishes and the travel would've been off-screen. You're actively ruining your own points.

No, because them warping around would go against what Samus was trying to do, which was make a map of the galaxy in order to determine where places were relative to each other, as well as her saying they wanted to “fly around to other planets”, aka calculate distances. Plus, warping requires coordinates, which Samus seemingly didn’t have.

Also, what? Warping isn't teleportation you know? it's like star wars shit. What warping is, is hyper-space.

Also, also, she might've? They're just talking and going "oh right bros at planet outlaw mentioned this, hey yeah let's go there", then they go.
Actually thinking on it, if she was told about Maru, she probably did know where? Would be dumb to tell her about it but not where. Not like that'd change anything.

The story tells us that Outlaw mentioned “legends” and “stories” of a planet called Maru, it implies they didn’t really know much about it other than “it existed”, and they definitely don’t mention they knew the exact coordinates before entering the galaxy.

They established that in Prime 3, which came out after this manga. And if ya wanna use Prime 3 as an example, literally everything ever warps, Samus' chozo ship warps, even Dark Samus warps, not one thing EVER goes MFTL, the game hammers down any degree of MFTL takes warping, for even non-ships.

Prime 3 is chronologically before this manga so I think it’s relevant. Plus, them warping everywhere can be taken as a sign that ships hadn’t been that fast in 3D space at the time, technology evolves. It still bring up the idea that there is a range limit to HD and anything surpassing that limit makes HD a no-go. And if they improved their warp drive to the point it could cover the distance to EG in one go, then Samus wouldn’t be flying so close to it in 3D space instead of just warping from Outlaw directly.

And yes, they do say that, and? Why do you think? it's because it'd take to long, yet you're arguing the ship NOT warping, can? Do you not see the blatant logical problem? if warp cant get there, then normal speed sure as hell cant.

Ship speed could simply have improved since Prime 3 days, this is after Super Metroid so there’s a notable time gap.

Lmao **** no? Youre arguing they got there within the span of a speech bubble.
Literally millions of light years, in seconds.

It’s not “millions of light years”, all we know is that Samus was within 7.8% the diameter of this galaxy in distance from it when we see the first page, that’s a few thousand LY at most. And considering there’s a time cut, it’s pretty easily arguable they didn’t get there within a conversation, since there is a time cut to after they collected information on the galaxy for the 2nd/3rd page.

When her next best feat ain't even FTL, yeah, LITERALLY 3083520000000000x my dude. Actual approx gap.

I mean the next best feat is prolly the speed booster chapter where she races across multiple planets and to the asteroid belt and back in a few minutes, which is prolly some degree of FTL (like I just did a random Earth to Mars thing and it got 2.5 c)

Hold up, you think this took a day? She warped then. 100%, a whole ass day of offscreen time, aka, we don't even see the feat, and we're to assume "nah this time is the only time ever she didn't use hyperspace".

Well considering we don’t see them enter hyperspace at any point, yeah I kind of think it’s feasible they didn’t use hyperspace, considering basically every other time hyperspace is used we see the portal effect signifying entry or exit.

Yeah, normal speed, and then not normal speed because we see the next page? And then it has it when it's actually doing the feat indicating that it had it while moving after she says "let's go!"?

The trail only showed up when they got in the galaxy and to planet Maru, there’s nothing suggesting Maru is at the very edge of Area 1 and it would be pretty astronomically small odds to say as such, so it’s likely that entering the galaxy, finding information, and getting to Maru were all separate occurrences and the trail aura isn’t connected to the ship entering the galaxy the first time.

None of your arguments make any sense, Samus never used the tech to go fast over a day or whatever off screen to go fast?
We dont see the trail when Samus is just cruisin and talking? So ignore the fact we see explicit evidence of burst speed when actually going fast?

Yeah, okay, the ship when it’s using burst speed can just be faster than when Samus is casually flying to the edge of Extreme Galaxy. It’s a race, Samus is meant to be going faster. I don’t even deny that the Maru entry scene is potentially the exit of HD, doesn’t mean that it’s connected to the first page’s travel.

Also how the hell did you reply, but fail to address ANY of the issues? Dude, it doesn't matter why you think the vague MFTL feat that she probably doesn't even scale to is MFTL, even if it is, that doesn't solve or tackle anything i just said. yeah, assuming zero warp was involved, it WOULD be MFTL, we got that, so?

If her ship is MFTL in a non life or death setting where she doesn’t need to go as fast as possible, then it would probably be MFTL in a race against the “speed demon of the galaxy” going as fast as possible, and she was still capable of dodging all incoming hazards in that scenario, so her reactions would scale.

If the claim is that there was a large timeskip in the middle of this, it'd be perfectly possible for her to have used hyperspace.

Yeah, she could have, except hyperspace requires coordinates to jump to, and demonstrates an entry or exit portal/ship dematerializing as a constant, neither of which are present in this chapter’s beginning.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah, she could have, except hyperspace requires coordinates to jump to, and demonstrates an entry or exit portal/ship dematerializing as a constant, neither of which are present in this chapter’s beginning.

You don't have proof she didn't have coordinates- hell it'd be pretty dumb for her not to, given she knew its position. As for not showing portals... duh, it's offscreen.

 

[JJSliderman]

You don't have proof she didn't have coordinates- hell it'd be pretty dumb for her not to, given she knew its position. As for not showing portals... duh, it's offscreen.

We don’t know she did before she entered the galaxy, she just knew a planet Maru existed and heard stories about it. That was her purpose for making the star chart, to gather info.

But honestly I’m throwing in the towel, I know when I’m not gonna win. Besides it’s already not gonna pass by virtue of outlier status so, not worth it.

Gorea I agree is just travel speed, Ridley I think I could go either way on if he’s flying or using a ship, and I disagree with White hole downgrade.

 

[Chariot190]

No? Arriving at the edge of the galaxy and then making it to planet Maru are two separate feats that would both be MFTL given the size of Area 1 and the distance to the galaxy on the map.

Huh? Why the hell do you think she was going MFTL? To get there? That was off-screen?

What we see with the trail is at the end of the second part, getting to Maru, and it’s pretty likely they didn’t warp before starting the second part of that journey.

Except, again, you're ignoring THE DBZ TRAIL. You're wrong, not up for debate, no matter what the case is, it wasn't normal flight.

Before Samus even enters Extreme Galaxy, she says “hey let’s fly around and make a star chart before we get to planet Maru”.

Warping is still flight what? And yeah, she did say that, the exact quote, "Let's fly around the planets, find out more about them, and try to make a star chart".

Which tells us, uh, nothing except she was gonna fly around to at least a few planets, she never says before or after, she doesn't even seemingly do it.

Warping around everywhere to random planets goes against this idea because then they don’t know where these planets are in relation to everything else, so it’s not an accurate star chart.

Again, you don't seem to grasp what warping even is, it isn't teleportation dog.

it's hyperspace, doing it in warp would 100% be more efficient, and pose zero issue.

And them warping to the galaxy itself would require them to know exactly where Maru is in said galaxy, which they obviously didn’t if they were trying to chart out the galaxy.

Uh, they did tho, they were told about it? They even say "yeah we were told about this planet that's in sector 1", they legit knew.

Because the characters in the cockpit aren’t going through a speed change when it cuts to the second page, they act like everything’s normal, no one acknowledges they’re in hyperspace,

This just ******. You realize none of that works like that yes? They're not gonna look different, act different, etc.

Like, wtf do ya mean "they arent going through a speed change", no shit, they're in a cockpit? Hyperspace and warp don't work like that?

No shit they'd act like everything is normal, do you think in ZM or Prime or etc when they enter hyperspace, they just get thrown by the momentum? Hell no, hyperspace basically nulls that.

the panel doesn’t acknowledge they’re in hyperspace until well after they’re already in the galaxy and have a chart of information (given that they have already arrived at Maru)

Why? it's an established concept, she never acknowledges it in prime 3 yet she does it every time.

And yeah, AFTER they're in, how ya think they got there? By using the speed trillions of times below?

You need to read what they actually say better, that last bit isn't even true.

No, because them warping around would go against what Samus was trying to do, which was make a map of the galaxy in order to determine where places were relative to each other, as well as her saying they wanted to “fly around to other planets”, aka calculate distances.

Reading comprehension my dude, guess what she doesn't actually say? Hell going by your logic, she *******, somehow, charted out every goddamn planet in the galaxy, when we 100% know she didn't due to future chapters.

Plus, warping requires coordinates, which Samus seemingly didn’t have.

No it doesn't? it can use coordinates, they can still just ******* warp to wherever, whenever, and come out at any time.

The story tells us that Outlaw mentioned “legends” and “stories” of a planet called Maru, it implies they didn’t really know much about it other than “it existed”, and they definitely don’t mention they knew the exact coordinates before entering the galaxy.

Uh, no? Stop adding words to shit.

Joey says he heard stories, not LEGENDS, stories as in just dudes talking about it. Diesel IMMEDIATELY says "yeah it's here lmao", they knew where it was.

They say it's uncharted, but that doesn't mean they dont know where the planet they were told is, was. Because they do?

Prime 3 is chronologically before this manga so I think it’s relevant.

Ok then you dont even have an argument because Prime 3 does everything in its power to showcase shit dont work the way you think it does.

Plus, them warping everywhere can be taken as a sign that ships hadn’t been that fast in 3D space at the time, technology evolves.

This ship, was made before Prime 3, it's in Prime 2 ffs. And no, stop making shit up, every thread with you.

It still bring up the idea that there is a range limit to HD

No? HD takes time? Warping across the universe would still take eons dude, they needed actual wormhole shit to get there.

and anything surpassing that limit makes HD a no-go. And if they improved their warp drive to the point it could cover the distance to EG in one go, then Samus wouldn’t be flying so close to it in 3D space instead of just warping from Outlaw directly.

Yeah, awful argument,


She stops to ask them if they want to turn back, they say "nah we good", then she burst speed.

Ship speed could simply have improved since Prime 3 days, this is after Super Metroid so there’s a notable time gap.

it didnt, we know this because that fuckass dread gunship exists, we also know this because this EXACT SHIP was made before Prime 2, at a random federation shipyard. The prime 3 gunship is, according to lore, her best one.

So not only are you making shit up again to try to justify blatant contradictions, youre not even correct because this ship predates prime 3.

It’s not “millions of light years”,

Yes it is? Do you not know how to angsize? She was numerous galaxy width's away?

all we know is that Samus was within 7.8% the diameter of this galaxy in distance from it when we see the first page, that’s a few thousand LY at most.

Dude, you have no idea how big this shit is do you?

And considering there’s a time cut, it’s pretty easily arguable they didn’t get there within a conversation, since there is a time cut to after they collected information on the galaxy for the 2nd/3rd page.

Ok then they warped if there's a time cut.

I mean the next best feat is prolly the speed booster chapter where she races across multiple planets and to the asteroid belt and back in a few minutes, which is prolly some degree of FTL (like I just did a random Earth to Mars thing and it got 2.5 c)

Already attempted calcing that, it's sub-rel.

Well considering we don’t see them enter hyperspace at any point, yeah I kind of think it’s feasible they didn’t use hyperspace, considering basically every other time hyperspace is used we see the portal effect signifying entry or exit.

Sucks that there's a huge time cut then no with the actual travel all off-screen in the verse that establishes all MFTL travel, before, and after, being warp tech, whether it's the best ship in the Fed Army, or even dudes like Dark Samus.

The default assumption will ALWAYS be the thing they hammer in. ESPECIALLY when talking about a feat that according to you was done off-screen yet is somehow millions of times above the ships WITH warp? Do you actually not see the issue with your assumptions?

The trail only showed up when they got in the galaxy and to planet Maru, there’s nothing suggesting Maru is at the very edge of Area 1 and it would be pretty astronomically small odds to say as such, so it’s likely that entering the galaxy, finding information, and getting to Maru were all separate occurrences and the trail aura isn’t connected to the ship entering the galaxy the first time.

Except, the trail WAS THE MFTL FEAT. Holy ****, im so tired of repeating the same shit.

And no, the planet can be wherever the hell it wants to be, the very fact it's in sector 1, is already unlikely, yet it explicitly was. Do you n get when your arguments all hinge on "maybes", theyre not gonna amount to anything?

Yeah, okay, the ship when it’s using burst speed can just be faster than when Samus is casually flying to the edge of Extreme Galaxy. It’s a race, Samus is meant to be going faster.

Then stop arguing it.

I don’t even deny that the Maru entry scene is potentially the exit of HD, doesn’t mean that it’s connected to the first page’s travel.

The 1st page, according to you, has a HUGE time cut?

If her ship is MFTL in a non life or death setting where she doesn’t need to go as fast as possible, then it would probably be MFTL in a race against the “speed demon of the galaxy” going as fast as possible, and she was still capable of dodging all incoming hazards in that scenario, so her reactions would scale.

What, none of them were using warp tech? That's like, the whole issue, ships have 2 speeds, normal speed, and MFTL bullshit. Them flying in a race, doesnt mean theyre going quicker then warp tech, it's the very fact it is, that makes the use of warp tech make zero sense, they're competing dog, cant compete if ya using hyperspace

Yeah, the hazards is the uh, second best feat she has? That's like 300000000x less?

Yeah, she could have, except hyperspace requires coordinates to jump to, and demonstrates an entry or exit portal/ship dematerializing as a constant, neither of which are present in this chapter’s beginning.

Yeah, there ya go, she could have. And when the verse has all this established bullshit, that becomes the default for an off-screen feat.

And, again, when do they EVER say that coordinates are 100% required to go into hyperspace? Just because they use them, doesn't mean the hyperspace button dont work without it, it's just, why the **** warp drive when ya don't know where ya going?

Samus can pretty evidently warp anyway, hell Sylux too given he trails Samus. Or even worse, DARK SAMUS, she uses warp to get around, you think she needs coordinates to warp?

And, again, you somehow went another whole ass post without addressing any issue, im not doing this with you man, it's actually annoying, either properly tackle the points, or stop responding.

 

[JJSliderman]

I’m sorry man, but you really need to calm down, swearing at me 50 times over doesn’t make you look professional. I’m sorry I might have gotten some facts slightly off, I said I was conceding on the speed point, my bad.

 

[Chariot190]

I’m sorry man, but you really need to calm down, swearing at me 50 times over doesn’t make you look professional. I’m sorry I might have gotten some facts slightly off, I said I was conceding on the speed point, my bad.

Dude, im gonna say ****, get over it, it's allowed.
And youre on a wiki arguing about a scifi game manga, do you really think any of this is "professional"? Because it isn't, it's a side hobby, shit ain't serious.

Now, instead of acting like me saying **** a bunch is some sort of personal attack as if that isnt just how I talk, actually respond to the fuckys properly, or dont waste time by turning this into a 5 page back and forth.

 

[JJSliderman]

Bro what do you want me to do, I already conceded that your point is stronger, do you want it on paper? Do you want me to send a personalized email to you?

Like if you want my take I already said it, I think the ship speed scaling going away is fine, I think Gorea’s feat being travel speed is fine, I think Ridley’s feats going away is debatable, and I disagree with the white hole downgrade.

 

[Chariot190]

Bro what do you want me to do, I already conceded that your point is stronger, do you want it on paper? Do you want me to send a personalized email to you?

Like if you want my take I already said it, I think the ship speed scaling going away is fine, I think Gorea’s feat being travel speed is fine, I think Ridley’s feats going away is debatable, and I disagree with the white hole downgrade.

Then why are you arguing my dude, i dont get it
also what's wrong with the white hole downgrade, she'd still have H3-A ED.

 

[JJSliderman]

I, stopped arguing a few posts ago. I guess I didn’t make it very clear there.

My problem with the downgrade is that there’s only shown to be one white hole in every scene involving them, and the only argument that there are multiple is that they cancel out. Even though they would cancel out regardless because the singular white hole canceled out all the black holes.

 

[Chariot190]

My problem with the downgrade is that there’s only shown to be one white hole in every scene involving them,

Dont like this, you say every scene but
There's only ONE scene, and it's legit not even two pages.

and the only argument that there are multiple is that they cancel out. Even though they would cancel out regardless because the singular white hole canceled out all the black holes.

tbh, i think there has to be multiple, simply because of how white holes work. At least from how i understand it, white holes basically serve as the opposite end of a black hole, at least in this context? Almost like two ends of a tunnel?

So to spit everything back out, there'd need to be a white hole for each black hole in order to have access to what was sucked? Like the white hole we see spits the temple back out, because that's what that black hole sucked up, and elsewhere white holes would spit up what the others did.

 

[JJSliderman]

Dont like this, you say every scene but
There's only ONE scene, and it's legit not even two pages.

The panel of Samus receiving the white hole from the animus, the panel of Samus reaching out for the white hole, the panel of it expanding from the temple, and the panel that shows a single unbroken white hole in space. At no point do they show more than one WH.

tbh, i think there has to be multiple, simply because of how white holes work. At least from how i understand it, white holes basically serve as the opposite end of a black hole, at least in this context? Almost like two ends of a tunnel?

So to spit everything back out, there'd need to be a white hole for each black hole in order to have access to what was sucked? Like the white hole we see spits the temple back out, because that's what that black hole sucked up, and elsewhere white holes would spit up what the others did.

In theory, but in practice all we see is a single white hole expanding out from the temple, and nowhere else. And they’re perfectly capable of showing other regions of space in order to demonstrate as such. I guess you could call it reading comprehension, but idk. Irl white holes don’t exist to say every black hole has a twin white to match it and confirm.

Plus, Samus shot out seemingly a universe’s worth of white holes in one go, so wouldn’t it still be uni since her combined white holes covered the universe?

 

[Chariot190]

The panel of Samus receiving the white hole from the animus, the panel of Samus reaching out for the white hole,

Dude, that isn't a white hole that's just magic power-up juice

the panel of it expanding from the temple, and the panel that shows a single unbroken white hole in space. At no point do they show more than one WH.

And that's literally just one spread and a panel

Plus by that logic, the white hole Samus made wasn't enough because that unbroken shot absolutely isnt galaxy sized. Yet, we know a black hole popped up in the center of the milky way, while Samus was in a diff galaxy.

In theory,

Not in theory, that's what a white hole is? if it isnt an actual white hole, than it's just some abstract hax and she doesnt get any AP for it

but in practice all we see is a single white hole expanding out from the temple, and nowhere else.

Why would we? Common sense dog, they spent a whole chapter showing us the black holes were popping up all over, why do the same in a limited page chapter?

And they’re perfectly capable of showing other regions of space in order to demonstrate as such.

Yeah, they did? Why do it again? Remember, this was published in a magazine, they have a page limit.

I guess you could call it reading comprehension, but idk. Irl white holes don’t exist to say every black hole has a twin white to match it and confirm.

No, but we know that all the black hole suck stuff, got spat back out. if it was one white hole, that'd be impossible. how can it spit the stuff back out? it isnt connected to those ones?

Plus, Samus shot out seemingly a universe’s worth of white holes in one go, so wouldn’t it still be uni since her combined white holes covered the universe?

No, that'd be like, combining every shot of Emerald Splash and making fodder ass Kakyoin 7-C because of it, or making a dude with a machine gun 9-A for combining every bullet, or hell, combining every beam shot for rapid fire Aeon as one AP. Ya dont combine.

 

[JJSliderman]

Dude, that isn't a white hole that's just magic power-up juice

And that's literally just one spread and a panel

And yet that is every single appearance of white holes in the franchise. So the overwhelming majority would suggest it’s still a single hole.

Plus by that logic, the white hole Samus made wasn't enough because that unbroken shot absolutely isnt galaxy sized. Yet, we know a black hole popped up in the center of the milky way, while Samus was in a diff galaxy.

I’m pretty sure that shot is just meant to symbolize the universe as a whole, given they call it “a universe achieving serenity”.

Not in theory, that's what a white hole is? if it isnt an actual white hole, than it's just some abstract hax and she doesnt get any AP for it

The hole still has its own statement saying it spits out matter, so it’s still contributing to spitting out a universe’s worth of matter.

Why would we? Common sense dog, they spent a whole chapter showing us the black holes were popping up all over, why do the same in a limited page chapter?

I think showing there were multiple white holes would not have compromised the page limit. Like, even just two holes.

No, but we know that all the black hole suck stuff, got spat back out. if it was one white hole, that'd be impossible. how can it spit the stuff back out? it isnt connected to those ones?

If a single white hole expanded outward, then eventually it would encompass all the black holes regardless, and thus be able to spit out all their matter.

No, that'd be like, combining every shot of Emerald Splash and making fodder ass Kakyoin 7-C because of it, or making a dude with a machine gun 9-A for combining every bullet, or hell, combining every beam shot for rapid fire Aeon as one AP. Ya dont combine.

Okay, but in theory Samus would be able to spit out an infinite amount of white holes to counter an infinite amount of black holes, and you can’t divide infinity.

 

[Chariot190]

And yet that is every single appearance of white holes in the franchise. So the overwhelming majority would suggest it’s still a single hole.

Bro, the 1st one isn't even the white hole, the second, is the ONLY time EVER. Youre acting like you have an actual sample size, ya don't, it's one page and a panel

I’m pretty sure that shot is just meant to symbolize the universe as a whole, given they call it “a universe achieving serenity”.

Well, it isn't, unless Metroid has infinitely big STARS. That shot doesn't even encompass the galaxy, yet we know black holes covered 2.

The hole still has its own statement saying it spits out matter, so it’s still contributing to spitting out a universe’s worth of matter.

Wouldn't be AP, we'd just treat it as wormhole creation or some shit.

I think showing there were multiple white holes would not have compromised the page limit. Like, even just two holes.

But, it would have, it'd have taken at least two more pages, and that was already and extra long chapter due to be the finale thus it got extra mag space.

Why bother when they already spent 4 pages establishing it? Why remove important stuff like Knight Vs. Sam, the reveal, adult joey, etc?

If a single white hole expanded outward, then eventually it would encompass all the black holes regardless, and thus be able to spit out all their matter.

Yeah except no that isn't how that works. Actually, white holes dont do that, she'd have destroyed the universe doing that

Okay, but in theory Samus would be able to spit out an infinite amount of white holes to counter an infinite amount of black holes, and you can’t divide infinity.

NEVER will we upgrade any verse based on "in theory", and dog, that's called range. An infinite amount of 9-B bullets, is still only 9-B, the actual bullets themselves dont change power, she just has High 3-A range and can make as many as she wants.

 

[JJSliderman]

Bro, the 1st one isn't even the white hole, the second, is the ONLY time EVER. Youre acting like you have an actual sample size, ya don't, it's one page and a panel

Isn’t that sort of hurting your case, if the “only time ever” we see a white hole is how there’s only one of them. At that point the amount of showings of multiple white holes is actually zero. Although I might rescind my argument based on below stuff.

Well, it isn't, unless Metroid has infinitely big STARS. That shot doesn't even encompass the galaxy, yet we know black holes covered 2.

I have been thinking maybe those stars are just other white holes which would go with your theory, so you might be right.

Wouldn't be AP, we'd just treat it as wormhole creation or some shit.

Wormholes from what though.

But, it would have, it'd have taken at least two more pages, and that was already and extra long chapter due to be the finale thus it got extra mag space.

They could legit just plop an extra white hole on one page in a single panel or even a portion of a panel and achieve the same effect.

Why bother when they already spent 4 pages establishing it? Why remove important stuff like Knight Vs. Sam, the reveal, adult joey, etc?

Knight isn’t even in the chapter, and they wouldn’t have to remove anything to plop an extra white hole in one panel.

Yeah except no that isn't how that works. Actually, white holes dont do that, she'd have destroyed the universe doing that

fair ig, repelling everything does sound problematic.

NEVER will we upgrade any verse based on "in theory", and dog, that's called range. An infinite amount of 9-B bullets, is still only 9-B, the actual bullets themselves dont change power, she just has High 3-A range and can make as many as she wants.

If she can make as many as she wants, doesn’t that mean the Animus white hole power is a finite source and Samus is drawing from it to make the white holes, and thus the overall white hole source is uni.

 

[Chariot190]

Isn’t that sort of hurting your case, if the “only time ever” we see a white hole is how there’s only one of them. At that point the amount of showings of multiple white holes is actually zero. Although I might rescind my argument based on below stuff.

No because it's a literal one off example, there's no sample size for EITHER.
The argument here is "literally why bother wasting time showing stuff that's just common sense". Now if they actually spent time on it, and kept showing that one, there'd be a point, but my dude it's basically two panels.

I have been thinking maybe those stars are just other white holes which would go with your theory, so you might be right.

Theyre drawn the same as every other space shot so doubt it, but that'd still mean we're looking at a very explicitly not big enough white hole.

Wormholes from what though.

To spit the stuff back out? if they arent "real" white holes, they're just portals dog.

They could legit just plop an extra white hole on one page in a single panel or even a portion of a panel and achieve the same effect.

But why? Why go through that effort the entire scene itself only takes one page? We get a huge spread, next page it's over.
Why do it? Do you think they gave a shit? That that's what they wanted to spend time on? They already drew a chapter worth showing how the black holes work, how they expand, why repeat it? Why ruin the spread? it doesnt make sense from an artist stand-point, like the average reader wouldn't be hung up on this, it'd be sufficient.

Knight isn’t even in the chapter, and they wouldn’t have to remove anything to plop an extra white hole in one panel.

Youre right, not a good thing, thought it was an extra long ch, it wasn't, it was normal length.

And again, why? They already established the black holes' AOE, and the white hole we do see, that you claim to be the only one, simply isn't big enough to do what it'd need to do, let alone do it anyway because white holes dont' work like that.

fair ig, repelling everything does sound problematic.

ye

If she can make as many as she wants, doesn’t that mean the Animus white hole power is a finite source and Samus is drawing from it to make the white holes, and thus the overall white hole source is uni.

Samus can make as many plasma beam shots that she wants too, so is varia High 3-A because it can make infinite whatever tier plasma beams? Obviously not. A famous example, would be Android 17, he has an infinite power source he can draw upon forever and without limit, buuuuuuuut, his bitch ass 4-C untill he did become low 2-C but that took 20 years and some plot, but yeah no, it'd just be inf stamina if ya wanna call it that or an inf mana pool, whatever ya get me.

Animus himself might count but eh.

 

[JJSliderman]

Admittedly white hole manipulation dropping to low 4-C might be beneficial for smthn I’ll cook later, and it does make sense, so sure, high 3-A overtime.

Although, shouldn’t it just be flat star level if the black holes are gonna suck in entire stars

 

[JJSliderman]

Nvm I tried cooking without reading past the table of contents

 

[JJSliderman]

ngl this story def feels like it was written in the infancy of knowledge about white holes, cuz basically every source I find nowadays says a black hole should overcome a white hole fairly comfortably due to their properties.

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't think there was much research going on from the mangaka tbh, Metroid's never stuck to science much

 

[JJSliderman]

At least there was enough research to know the epicenter of a white hole is the absolute safest place.